Do yuo have to document to the dot when it comes to programming - GoFuckYourself.com

lakerslive · 03-09-2013, 09:51 AM

You have a programming job.. do you document everything in terms of instructions and how it should work down to the dot when giving task to a programmer?

You can't just say, oh, make this work like this..

or maybe im just getting shitty programmers.

Thamkssss

blackmonsters · 03-09-2013, 10:16 AM

The more specific your are the more you get what you want.

But without knowing what you actually requested, who knows?

Chris · 03-09-2013, 10:21 AM

Generally if you are dealing directly with the programmer and able to talk to them you dont need to have a detailed list

but if you are using an outsource they will more than likely want a very well written detailed list of what you want

Antonio · 03-09-2013, 10:24 AM

if that programmer has more than 2 brain cells, then he would require very clear and detailed instructions

DamianJ · 03-09-2013, 10:27 AM

Every SINGLE aspect should be documented, with illustrations preferably. And I mean everything. Like stipulating what text needs to be machine readable, how things should be compliant with x, alt tags, EVERYTHING.

gfyworldnews · 03-09-2013, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris

Generally if you are dealing directly with the programmer and able to talk to them you dont need to have a detailed list

Remember, it's better to dispense no advice than bad advice.

Colmike9 · 03-09-2013, 10:50 AM

I agree, the more documentation of what's needed the better. If I get a programming job without any details, I don't mind, but don't get mad that I did it my way if you didn't specify at the beginning.. (But I try to get clarification first, of course..

)

sarettah · 03-09-2013, 11:09 AM

It depends on your relationship with the programmer and also as to whether it is a "coder" or a "developer".

If it is a new programmer that you have not worked with before and that is not familiar with your operation then yes, go as much detail as possible.

If it is someone that is familiar with your operation and has built out a good amount of your infrastructure then you do not need to be as detailed (at least as far as I am concerned).

The question you have to ask yourself is "Do you want a programmer deciding what your business rules are and how they should be implemented?".

Naughty · 03-09-2013, 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antonio

if that programmer has more than 2 brain cells, then he would require very clear and detailed instructions

Both from a (moderate) programmers' view, as well as being on the hiring end, i think this is the most true answer possible;-).

grumpy · 03-09-2013, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris

Generally if you are dealing directly with the programmer and able to talk to them you dont need to have a detailed list

but if you are using an outsource they will more than likely want a very well written detailed list of what you want

Number one mistake!!!

grumpy · 03-09-2013, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antonio

if that programmer has more than 2 brain cells, then he would require very clear and detailed instructions

i second that

sarettah · 03-09-2013, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lakerslive

You can't just say, oh, make this work like this..

Actually that usually results in you getting exactly what you asked for but not what you wanted.

.

My Fucking Traffic · 03-09-2013, 02:17 PM

Detailed list or you're not getting what you want. A programmer can't read your mind. You want it done a certain way, explain it to them like you're trying to teach your grandma how to use the internet for the first time in her life.

ottopottomouse · 03-09-2013, 04:08 PM

tell a painter you want the interior of your house painted.
he paints every wall several different colours using up all his half empty tins of paint.

you got exactly what you asked for.

sarettah · 03-09-2013, 04:36 PM

Revisiting this.

I am old school when it comes to systems/applications development. In my opinion, it is part of the developers job to extract the information from the client.

It is nice when a client can define their own requirements but that tends to be the exception.

Unfortunately a developer cannot give an accurate quote without a really good picture of what the job will entail so either a decent requirements doc or a lot of questions have to occur before anything happens.

.

Webmaster Advertising · 03-09-2013, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sarettah

Unfortunately a developer cannot give an accurate quote without a really good picture of what the job will entail so either a decent requirements doc or a lot of questions have to occur before anything happens.

.

Agreed.

You wouldn't (or maybe you would) believe the amount of times we get potential clients calling us with 'we need a program for our site, how much will that cost?'

Then they get all pissy when we start asking them about the details of the project...

We had one guy a few weeks ago ask us to sign an NDA (which we did) before he would give us any information, then, after we signed it, he still wouldn't give us the info we needed to even give him a ballpark costing LOL

candyflip · 03-09-2013, 07:07 PM

My girl is sitting next to me working on an web application for work. Her binder with all the details for this one site alone must be 3 inches thick.

goodsites · 03-10-2013, 04:17 PM

Write in english what you want.. A good programmer with experience wont do a thing but flow chart it all up and come back with the "forseen" problems. in regards to what is desired.. with recommendations and a quote.

The getting a quote is the hard part.. because there is so many who wont spend cash.. its a finess thing..

So it comes down to you get what you pay for. If your spending money there' a reason for it... The programmer can see that and use that as his "crutch of judgement"

goodsites · 03-10-2013, 04:25 PM

Also I would not hire one person to do everything, just like doctors there are different kinds of programmers..

I would break it down...
data programmer (meat and bones of system and database design)
(some data programmers can do very good CSS, but they dont do graphics,
not everyone in web design is an artist.)

The CSS should be a good written 980 GRID system for complete control and
support for all operating systems.. I have never had to write a hack for any browser
period.. .if you do so, you have learned wrong.
If you are using px and not em, you have problems, if you need to do IF IE7 {}
you are taught wrong.. read the RFC and it all works out.

Get a design guy for filling out the CSS with good color scheme and whatnot
Actually at this point with a 980 grid design, many templates can be used that are quite
professional schemes to implement for under $100

Javascript is the next thing.... Hire someone else who only does this if needed.....
And never use javascript for any commercial requirement, (like payments) (logins) etc etc.... your looking for trouble..

Good Luck

lakerslive · 03-11-2013, 12:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by goodsites

Also I would not hire one person to do everything, just like doctors there are different kinds of programmers..

I would break it down...
data programmer (meat and bones of system and database design)
(some data programmers can do very good CSS, but they dont do graphics,
not everyone in web design is an artist.)

The CSS should be a good written 980 GRID system for complete control and
support for all operating systems.. I have never had to write a hack for any browser
period.. .if you do so, you have learned wrong.
If you are using px and not em, you have problems, if you need to do IF IE7 {}
you are taught wrong.. read the RFC and it all works out.

Get a design guy for filling out the CSS with good color scheme and whatnot
Actually at this point with a 980 grid design, many templates can be used that are quite
professional schemes to implement for under $100

Javascript is the next thing.... Hire someone else who only does this if needed.....
And never use javascript for any commercial requirement, (like payments) (logins) etc etc.... your looking for trouble..

Good Luck

thank you. this is good

03-09-2013, 09:51 AM	#1
lakerslive Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 929	Do yuo have to document to the dot when it comes to programming You have a programming job.. do you document everything in terms of instructions and how it should work down to the dot when giving task to a programmer? You can't just say, oh, make this work like this.. or maybe im just getting shitty programmers. Thamkssss

03-09-2013, 10:16 AM	#2
blackmonsters Making PHP work Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: 🌎🌅🌈🌇 Posts: 20,428	The more specific your are the more you get what you want. But without knowing what you actually requested, who knows? __________________ Make Money with Porn

03-09-2013, 10:21 AM	#3
Chris Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: May 2003 Location: icq: 71462500 Skype: Jupzchris Posts: 27,880	Generally if you are dealing directly with the programmer and able to talk to them you dont need to have a detailed list but if you are using an outsource they will more than likely want a very well written detailed list of what you want __________________ [email protected]

03-09-2013, 10:50 AM	#7
Colmike9 (>^_^)b Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 7,223	I agree, the more documentation of what's needed the better. If I get a programming job without any details, I don't mind, but don't get mad that I did it my way if you didn't specify at the beginning.. (But I try to get clarification first, of course.. ) __________________ Join the BEST cam affiliate program on the internet! I've referred over $1.7mil in spending this past year, you should join in. I make a lot more money in the medical field in a lab now, fuck you guys. Don't ask me to come back, but do join Chaturbate in my sig, it still makes bank without me touching shit for years..

03-09-2013, 11:09 AM	#8
sarettah see you later, I'm gone Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 14,091	It depends on your relationship with the programmer and also as to whether it is a "coder" or a "developer". If it is a new programmer that you have not worked with before and that is not familiar with your operation then yes, go as much detail as possible. If it is someone that is familiar with your operation and has built out a good amount of your infrastructure then you do not need to be as detailed (at least as far as I am concerned). The question you have to ask yourself is "Do you want a programmer deciding what your business rules are and how they should be implemented?". __________________ All cookies cleared! Last edited by sarettah; 03-09-2013 at 11:17 AM..

03-09-2013, 10:24 AM	#4
Antonio Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Spartaaaaaaaaa Posts: 14,136	if that programmer has more than 2 brain cells, then he would require very clear and detailed instructions

03-09-2013, 10:27 AM	#5
DamianJ Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: A magical land Posts: 15,808	Every SINGLE aspect should be documented, with illustrations preferably. And I mean everything. Like stipulating what text needs to be machine readable, how things should be compliant with x, alt tags, EVERYTHING.

03-09-2013, 02:17 PM	#13
My Fucking Traffic So Fucking Banned Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 996	Detailed list or you're not getting what you want. A programmer can't read your mind. You want it done a certain way, explain it to them like you're trying to teach your grandma how to use the internet for the first time in her life.

03-09-2013, 04:08 PM	#14
ottopottomouse She is ugly, bad luck. Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 13,177	tell a painter you want the interior of your house painted. he paints every wall several different colours using up all his half empty tins of paint. you got exactly what you asked for. __________________ ↑ see post ↑ 13101

03-09-2013, 04:36 PM	#15
sarettah see you later, I'm gone Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 14,091	Revisiting this. I am old school when it comes to systems/applications development. In my opinion, it is part of the developers job to extract the information from the client. It is nice when a client can define their own requirements but that tends to be the exception. Unfortunately a developer cannot give an accurate quote without a really good picture of what the job will entail so either a decent requirements doc or a lot of questions have to occur before anything happens. . __________________ All cookies cleared!

03-09-2013, 07:07 PM	#17
candyflip Carpe Visio Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: New York Posts: 43,058	My girl is sitting next to me working on an web application for work. Her binder with all the details for this one site alone must be 3 inches thick. __________________ Spend you some brain. Email Me

03-10-2013, 04:17 PM	#18
goodsites Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Over the rainbows Posts: 538	Write in english what you want.. A good programmer with experience wont do a thing but flow chart it all up and come back with the "forseen" problems. in regards to what is desired.. with recommendations and a quote. The getting a quote is the hard part.. because there is so many who wont spend cash.. its a finess thing.. So it comes down to you get what you pay for. If your spending money there' a reason for it... The programmer can see that and use that as his "crutch of judgement"

03-10-2013, 04:25 PM	#19
goodsites Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Over the rainbows Posts: 538	Also I would not hire one person to do everything, just like doctors there are different kinds of programmers.. I would break it down... data programmer (meat and bones of system and database design) (some data programmers can do very good CSS, but they dont do graphics, not everyone in web design is an artist.) The CSS should be a good written 980 GRID system for complete control and support for all operating systems.. I have never had to write a hack for any browser period.. .if you do so, you have learned wrong. If you are using px and not em, you have problems, if you need to do IF IE7 {} you are taught wrong.. read the RFC and it all works out. Get a design guy for filling out the CSS with good color scheme and whatnot Actually at this point with a 980 grid design, many templates can be used that are quite professional schemes to implement for under $100 Javascript is the next thing.... Hire someone else who only does this if needed..... And never use javascript for any commercial requirement, (like payments) (logins) etc etc.... your looking for trouble.. Good Luck