[QUOTE=
The 13 million people who were alive before the war,and were gone afterwards, yet never served in any army, tell the same story of what happened. Not only to Jews, but to musicians, teachers, artists, Gypsies, the physically and mentally handicapped and homosexuals. But some people are never going to learn.[/QUOTE]

Some people are ignorant about what happened during WWII. Most only know about the 6 million Jews who were killed because of the holocaust. While this is sadly true many don't know and never acknowledge the 24 MILLION Russians killed. This is about 45% of ALL killed during the war.

No ONE mentions the 24 MILLION Russians who died either.

“Never forget that everything Hitler did in Germany was legal.”

This is sadly true... The fact is America did not actively join the war until the Pearl Harbor event and the aggressions was towards Japan. They dident officially join the European theater until Hitler and Mussolini declared war on America.

That's about right. I do think there were some gassings by rogue members of the German military though. They probably did throw some Jews into the gas rooms along with the clothes they were fumigating. Unthinkable crimes are committed by the village idiots found in every army.

Do you believe members of the US military are crazed murderers because you read about some crimes committed in Iraq or Afghanistan? Of course not. Those were rogue soldiers. Yet if you apply that same logic to WW2 era Germany you are an anti-semite that should be sent to prison (luckily the US constitution protects free speech, unlike Europe).

The method of computing that figure is done in a way that maximizes the victim count. They compared world wide census data prior to the war to data compiled after the war. Any discrepancy meant a Jew was killed by the Nazis.

The truth is that many Jews hid their religion after the war due to Christian persecution of Jews being so bad during the period (interestingly enough, Arabs were the ones protecting Jews during that time in history).

The actual figure of deceased Jews during WW2 is thought to be closer to 400,000. The Red Cross recorded under 300,000 dead or assumed dead. The Vatican's number was 200,000. Figures in that area seem a lot more reasonable. It would account for coincidental natural deaths (cancer, heart attack...), the massive European typhus outbreak and a relatively small number of war related deaths.

The "official" figure was fudged for the Nuremberg trials to help cripple Germany. They had to pay reparations for the dead Jews. The allied forces used a multi prong approach to keeping Germany down after the war (Russia looting East Germany's industrial machines probably played the biggest role).

http://vho.org/tr/2004/1/Typhus.jpg

http://www.whale.to/b/beeld-51.jpg
Delousing chamber at Auchwitz II (one like this would have used Zyclon B). Allied forces claimed the windows meant they were built to execute Jews.

[IMG]http://www.whale.to/b/birk26.jpg[IMG]
Another method of delousing at Auchwitz II. These use hot air.

http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/WF5.RUS.TYPHUS.JPG
Looks just like Holocaust victims, but it's typhus.

But we aren't allowed to talk about typhus or the delousing efforts. :error

rebelled :1orglaugh

did you know that Germany was owned, almost entirely, by Bankers of a jewish nature?

apparently someone got upset about starving in a country that was rightfully theirs, leading to the 'night of broken glass' etc etc

apparently, if you go into a country with guns and money, and take everything, it really pisses people off

That goes back to strained relations between the US and Russia. It's unamerican to say anything good about Russia, so they get left out of the high school history books and Hollywood movies. American kids grow up thinking the US played the key role in taking down Germany. Nobody even questions whether or not it's true because we were brainwashed so well.

The camps are still there, lots of photographic evidence of the gas chambers, ovens and mass burials.

As to the denial site, nope, I can't explain stuff that other people just make up.

The question you eventually have to stop and ask yourself is if this is the surviving evidence of a vast conspiracy to kill every Jew on the planet or if it's the circumstances of a war Germany didn't plan on losing.

If you want to blame the typhus deaths on Germany by saying nobody should have been locked up in the first place, fair enough. That opens up a whole other debate. But the history that everyone was starved and then led into the gas chambers is going to be revised over the next couple decades through the freedom of information on the internet.


http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lo...w8ao1_1280.jpg
British military doctors are seen here showing their ID for entry into a camp at Bergen-Belsen. Allied forces continued operating the camp because those inside had typhus and required treatment. This was common.

But you never hear about that since it kinda turns the Holocaust into one of disease rather than targeted killing.

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lq...bazo1_1280.jpg
Women suffering from typhus at Bergen-Belsen.

Matt, keep your head in the sand. You'll never be shocked by reality.

The Nazi's final solution to the Jewish problem was official government policy and was written down.

These threads keep popping up and they always amaze me.

The Nazis documented in minute detail the industrialized slaughter of the Jews of Europe.

At first they used Jews as slave labour until they were useless then killed them. Later after Barbarossa started the numbers of jews under their control were so large that they just started exterminating them. It was all documented in minute detail from start to finish. A lot of documentation was not destroyed and fell into the allies hands.

Even the Nazis did not deny that the camps and the gas chambers existed.

Where are these records? Have you seen them?

What happened during WWII was the worst crime against humanity ever.

I've never seen that before... Interesting.

Have I seen them ? Jesus.

If you want primary evidence you might want to start here :

http://fcit.usf.edu/holocaust/resour...t/document.htm

However there are literally thousands of recorded eye witness account of the holocaust - most of them not from Jews.

Stuff like this :

On October 5, 1942, by accident, Hermann Graebe, a German engineer and manager of a German construction firm in the Ukraine, and his foreman, came upon an Einsatz execution squad killing Jews from the small town of Dubno in the Ukraine. He gave the following eyewitness account:

"My foreman and I went directly to the pits. Nobody bothered us. Now I heard rifle shots in quick succession from behind one of the earth mounds. The people who had got off the trucks - men, women and children of all ages - had to undress upon the order of an SS man who carried a riding or dog whip. They had to put down their clothes in fixed places, sorted according to shoes, top clothing and undergarments. I saw heaps of shoes of about 800 to 1000 pairs, great piles of under-linen and clothing. Without screaming or weeping these people undressed, stood around in family groups, kissed each other, said farewells, and waited for a sign from another SS man, who stood near the pit, also with a whip in his hand. During the fifteen minutes I stood near, I heard no complaint or plea for mercy. I watched a family of about eight persons, a man and a woman both of about fifty, with their children of about twenty to twenty-four, and two grown-up daughters about twenty-eight or twenty-nine. An old woman with snow white hair was holding a one year old child in her arms and singing to it and tickling it. The child was cooing with delight. The parents were looking on with tears in their eyes. The father was holding the hand of a boy about ten years old and speaking to him softly; the boy was fighting his tears. The father pointed to the sky, stroked his head and seemed to explain something to him. At that moment the SS man at the pit started shouting something to his comrade. The latter counted off about twenty persons and instructed them to go behind the earth mound. Among them was the family I have just mentioned. I well remember a girl, slim with black hair, who, as she passed me, pointed to herself and said, "twenty-three years old." I walked around the mound and found myself confronted by a tremendous grave. People were closely wedged together and lying on top of each other so that only their heads were visible. Nearly all had blood running over their shoulders from their heads. Some of the people shot were still moving. Some were lifting their arms and turning their heads to show that they were still alive. The pit was nearly two-thirds full. I estimated that it already contained about a thousand people. I looked for the man who did the shooting. He was an SS man, who sat at the edge of the narrow end of the pit, his feet dangling into the pit. He had a tommy-gun on his knees and was smoking a cigarette. The people, completely naked, went down some steps which were cut in the clay wall of the pit and clambered over the heads of the people lying there to the place to which the SS man directed them. They lay down in front of the dead or wounded people; some caressed those who were still alive and spoke to them in a low voice. Then I heard a series of shots. I looked into the pit and saw that the bodies were twitching or the heads lying already motionless on top of the bodies that lay beneath them. Blood was running from their necks. The next batch was approaching already. They went down into the pit, lined themselves up against the previous victims and were shot."


Only those ignorant of history can seriously doubt that Nazi Germany tried to completely exterminate the Jews of Europe.:(

Same question to you, have you seen the basis for the allegations that claim otherwise?

I have been to several camps and seen with my own eyes ovens, gas chambers and mass grave sites. I have seen (I don't read German, but the notations and lists are self explanatory) some of the records kept by the Nazis who ran the camps.

This was official Nazi government policy, documented and recorded thousands of times.

Aside from mislabeled photos and zero credibility crackpots, what have you seen with your own eyes?

What's next for you? A photo of a pile of bodies that you'll claim were bored to death?

Perhaps they decided to sleep in a pile and died of natural causes during the night?

Makes as much sense as any other denial.

Can you show some of these pics. Not denying anything i just have never seen them.

The American prosecutors at Nuremberg decided the best evidence against Nazi war criminals was the record left by the Nazi German state itself. They wanted to convict Nazi war criminals with their own words. While the Germans destroyed some of the historical record at the end of the war and some German records were destroyed during the Allied bombing of German cities, Allied armies captured millions of documents during the conquest of Germany in 1945. Allied prosecutors submitted some 3,000 tons of records at the Nuremberg trial. More than a decade later, beginning in 1958, the United States National Archives, in collaboration with the American Historical Association, published 62 volumes of finding aids to the records captured by the US military at the end of the war. More than 30 further volumes were published before the end of the 20th century

3000 tons of Nazi records.

http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article....uleId=10007271

i cannot be bothered reading all of this bc i am about to go to sleep but here are the simple facts... you are fighting a war do you kill the jews or use them as labour?

clearly use them as labour... the german railway network was bombed to fuck at the end of the war, and where do you think they prioritized their food supply?

Yeah thats right they sent what food they could to their troops who by the way were also suffering from lack of food.

The reason you see photos of these jews in this condition is the lack of food and disease that spread through the camps.

THE GERMANS HAD MG-42s that could spit out 1500 rounds per minute. This gun is still considered the best machine gun of all time. 1500 rounds thats like 1500 dead jews a minute if they wanted, or halve it and make it like 750 a minute. Whatever.... the point is, why were there any jews left to tell of it?? and why did they have soccer fields in the camps for the jews. fucking hell dont buy this shit you are fed, history is written by the victors, always remember that.

Just google Holocaust, images. Hundreds of sub searches including gas chambers oven etc.

Jaeger if you could be bothered to read up on it, then you might learn that the the Official Nazi policy stated that bullets were too valuable to waste on killing Jews.

Not so simple, and not even close to facts there.

really, link me this shit please.. sorry but you are wrong this does not exist

No, i'm asking you to show me proof.

What you actually said was :

Can you show some of these pics. Not denying anything i just have never seen them.

Doesn't exist?????

Here's a start:

http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article....uleId=10005151

http://library.thinkquest.org/trio/T...alsolution.htm

http://www.holocaust-education.dk/ho.../endlosung.asp

Where are the gas chambers?

Huh? I asked for proof of gas chambers. You must be confused.
Edit. I thought you quoted me so maybe this is something else.

Just Google "holocaust gas chambers", thousands of images.

My prior post was an answer to Jaeger who claims that the Final Solution didn't exist.

lol i mean post me some actual evidence not people that are far removed writing their opinions, like you know a fucking 1st source document, that says something about bullets being too valuable.. you won't find anything because there isnt anything, in fact there are NO ORDERS AT ALL that say anything about killing jews.

FULL OF SHIT. just saying once again, history is written by the victors and then their teachers teach us these lies and unless you bother to look into you just go right ahead and believe it.

(and btw the way those links you gave were written by jews. and of course they are ever so un-biased INSERT SARCASM)

You aren't gonna show me anything are you? Why is that?

I know, you can't be bothered to read articles from Museums and other such meaningless sources.

Well Jaeger, since your parents decided not to educate you it's not my job either.

So enjoy your ignorance and whatever you do, don't be bothered to read.

Leads to very bad things.

Knowledge.

Franck, if you can't be bothered to use Google then that's your choice.

This is really odd behaviour, you know that right? Why do you refuse to show me proof of gas chambers?

the 'gas chambers' did not exist they were simply de-lousing facilities to get help the people avoid things like typhus which spread easily in cramped conditions such as these camps. Of course these measures did not fully work and many died from disease anyway.

Im not saying jews were treated well but i am saying there was not a plan to kill them all. if that were the case they would have all been dead its just fucking logic. how many russians died in that war fighting the axis? was it 20 million? something like that anyway... and they couldnt kill all the people they kept in camps? why are there so many survivors...? its bullshit, just fucking think logically for a second.....

lol and of course GOOGLE is the source of all things correct... you will get a lot of shit on google, google is not the answer to everything lol if it was why bother studying or learning anything??

So i can claim anything i want and if someone wants proof i just say "Google".
Ok, good to know.

Franck, whatever. Does the big bad google scare you? :)

Jaeger, nowhere did I say google was the only place to look or even the best. It's just the one I use since you seem unable or unwilling to search and read, much less learn.

But, I guess when facts fail you, attack the source.

Wild guess, Google is some sort of Jewish conspiracy, right?

im very tired and near sleep as i first mentioned but thats not the point, I am pretty fucking sure i am more educated than you i went to an elite private school and i have a degree in social science (pyschology), and also honours in psychology. However correct me if i am wrong since i do not know you.

The fact, is i do bother to read, but all you give me is Jewish museum fucking links. CLEARLY BIASED. They have nothing to gain from lying at all do they? only the Israeli state...

Question, are you a Jew?

there is not one single legitimate scholar that refutes the final solution. debating whether or not there was a final solution isn't even a valid debate.

thats not true at all lol david irving comes to mind but there are others. i love these blanket bullshit comments from people. funny.

Facts Jaeger, we're talking facts here. Focus.

I listed a US Museum, a Danish education site, and Thinkquest.

Hardly Jewish sites.

Why do you refuse to show me proof of gas chambers? Is it some kind of secret?

Franck, go troll somewhere else.

No reason for me to post Holocaust pictures on an adult biz board just because you're too lazy.

Or stupid.

Found this video that says gas chambers are a myth:

like i said im tired... US museum yeah well we all know the relationship with the US and jews, similar with the danish.. i did skim those links, yes only skim, im tired, but i did not see anything about bullets being too precious to use on jews which was your point, maybe i missed it?

BTW you did not answer my question, are you jewish? ( i have 2 good jewish friends btw im not being anti-jew here just asking)