Self-defense using a firearm... - GoFuckYourself.com

xenigo · 01-02-2013, 06:37 AM

You realize it's rather rare to hear of anyone killing someone who claimed it was NOT "self defense". The problem is that everyone seems to think their life is in danger, when they go about blasting their neighbor in the face because of their dog barking, etc. Get in an argument with someone over a parking space, get blasted in the face. Self defense? That's what they all say...

The problem with firearms is that people think they have a license to blow someone's brains out because they feel disrespected... and that loosely translates to them needing to "defend" themselves. More like needing to defend their manhood...

"Self defense" is subjective, and everyone has their own definition. I'd rather not leave my fate up to the guy who is itching to pull the trigger because he's had a bad day, or feels stressed out at work, or who's wife is about to leave him. I don't think you have to be defined as "mentally ill" to fall under the "hyper-emotional", "stressed out" or "on edge" category.

How many people have you heard yell "I'm gonna fucking kill you!" when someone drinks too much? I've certainly heard that a few times in my life. How do you stop that guy when they've got a 9mm on their hip? He has the gun legally... he's not "mentally ill"... he passed the background check. He's just really fucking pissed off that you looked at him weird when he started yelling and pushing people around in a bar... and now he's after you. He wants to protect himself from you.

He's going to "fight for his right to defend himself", and you're now his target. He's not a felon, just someone who's in a major rage at that one moment... and he's got a gun... and he's going to kill you.

He won't be showing up on any mental-illness radar. I think we all been in that guy's presence at some point or another.

This "self defense" stuff is too subjective for the general public.

OneBallJohn · 01-02-2013, 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xenigo

How many people have you heard yell "I'm gonna fucking kill you!" when someone drinks too much? I've certainly heard that a few times in my life. How do you stop that guy when they've got a 9mm on their hip? He has the gun legally... he's not "mentally ill"... he passed the background check. He's just really fucking pissed off that you looked at him weird when he started yelling and pushing people around in a bar... and now he's after you. He wants to protect himself from you.

You're as dumb as that Feinstein cunt. Running off at the mouth and discussing topics that you know nothing about.

Can you show us one state where it is legal to carry a gun into a bar and get drunk? No you can't. But you wouldn't know that because instead of taking a CCW class and educating yourself about gun laws you are here posting with zero knowledge.

Being ignorant is bad enough but spreading your ignorance is even worse.

bronco67 · 01-02-2013, 08:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xenigo

You realize it's rather rare to hear of anyone killing someone who claimed it was NOT "self defense". The problem is that everyone seems to think their life is in danger, when they go about blasting their neighbor in the face because of their dog barking, etc. Get in an argument with someone over a parking space, get blasted in the face. Self defense? That's what they all say...

The problem with firearms is that people think they have a license to blow someone's brains out because they feel disrespected... and that loosely translates to them needing to "defend" themselves. More like needing to defend their manhood...

"Self defense" is subjective, and everyone has their own definition. I'd rather not leave my fate up to the guy who is itching to pull the trigger because he's had a bad day, or feels stressed out at work, or who's wife is about to leave him. I don't think you have to be defined as "mentally ill" to fall under the "hyper-emotional", "stressed out" or "on edge" category.

How many people have you heard yell "I'm gonna fucking kill you!" when someone drinks too much? I've certainly heard that a few times in my life. How do you stop that guy when they've got a 9mm on their hip? He has the gun legally... he's not "mentally ill"... he passed the background check. He's just really fucking pissed off that you looked at him weird when he started yelling and pushing people around in a bar... and now he's after you. He wants to protect himself from you.

He's going to "fight for his right to defend himself", and you're now his target. He's not a felon, just someone who's in a major rage at that one moment... and he's got a gun... and he's going to kill you.

He won't be showing up on any mental-illness radar. I think we all been in that guy's presence at some point or another.

This "self defense" stuff is too subjective for the general public.

I'd agree. Just like having a Hummer or a Pitbull, owing a gun is mostly about the owner's nuts, and how he feels about them.

Take for instance, the name of the guy who called you a dumb cunt.

Dirty F · 01-02-2013, 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xenigo

You realize it's rather rare to hear of anyone killing someone who claimed it was NOT "self defense". The problem is that everyone seems to think their life is in danger, when they go about blasting their neighbor in the face because of their dog barking, etc. Get in an argument with someone over a parking space, get blasted in the face. Self defense? That's what they all say...

The problem with firearms is that people think they have a license to blow someone's brains out because they feel disrespected... and that loosely translates to them needing to "defend" themselves. More like needing to defend their manhood...

"Self defense" is subjective, and everyone has their own definition. I'd rather not leave my fate up to the guy who is itching to pull the trigger because he's had a bad day, or feels stressed out at work, or who's wife is about to leave him. I don't think you have to be defined as "mentally ill" to fall under the "hyper-emotional", "stressed out" or "on edge" category.

How many people have you heard yell "I'm gonna fucking kill you!" when someone drinks too much? I've certainly heard that a few times in my life. How do you stop that guy when they've got a 9mm on their hip? He has the gun legally... he's not "mentally ill"... he passed the background check. He's just really fucking pissed off that you looked at him weird when he started yelling and pushing people around in a bar... and now he's after you. He wants to protect himself from you.

He's going to "fight for his right to defend himself", and you're now his target. He's not a felon, just someone who's in a major rage at that one moment... and he's got a gun... and he's going to kill you.

He won't be showing up on any mental-illness radar. I think we all been in that guy's presence at some point or another.

This "self defense" stuff is too subjective for the general public.

Yup, i keep saying this. Living in the US you shouldn't be worried about that burglar you most likely will never see in your life but about all the responsible gun owners walking around with guns for self defense.
And that's exactly the reason why i'm so happy to live in a country where only criminals have guns. I wouldn't want it any other way.
No smart person would.

OneBallJohn · 01-02-2013, 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bronco67

I'd agree. Just like having a Hummer or a Pitbull, owing a gun is mostly about the owner's nuts, and how he feels about them.

Take for instance, the name of the guy who called you a dumb cunt.

Yes because a persons screen name determines if they know what they are talking about or not.

You must know a lot about horse cock.

Grapesoda · 01-02-2013, 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xenigo

You realize it's rather rare to hear of anyone killing someone who claimed it was NOT "self defense". The problem is that everyone seems to think their life is in danger, when they go about blasting their neighbor in the face because of their dog barking, etc. Get in an argument with someone over a parking space, get blasted in the face. Self defense? That's what they all say...

The problem with firearms is that people think they have a license to blow someone's brains out because they feel disrespected... and that loosely translates to them needing to "defend" themselves. More like needing to defend their manhood...

"Self defense" is subjective, and everyone has their own definition. I'd rather not leave my fate up to the guy who is itching to pull the trigger because he's had a bad day, or feels stressed out at work, or who's wife is about to leave him. I don't think you have to be defined as "mentally ill" to fall under the "hyper-emotional", "stressed out" or "on edge" category.

How many people have you heard yell "I'm gonna fucking kill you!" when someone drinks too much? I've certainly heard that a few times in my life. How do you stop that guy when they've got a 9mm on their hip? He has the gun legally... he's not "mentally ill"... he passed the background check. He's just really fucking pissed off that you looked at him weird when he started yelling and pushing people around in a bar... and now he's after you. He wants to protect himself from you.

He's going to "fight for his right to defend himself", and you're now his target. He's not a felon, just someone who's in a major rage at that one moment... and he's got a gun... and he's going to kill you.

He won't be showing up on any mental-illness radar. I think we all been in that guy's presence at some point or another.

This "self defense" stuff is too subjective for the general public.

the reality is you shoot and kill someone with a gun, for any reason you are going to jail while they sort everything thing out... and there is also a good chance you will be sued by the 'dead persons' family no matter why you shot them and if there is 'political racism' involved you stand even a bigger chance of going to prison.

Barry-xlovecam · 01-02-2013, 10:06 AM

If someone breaks your door in, forced entry into your home -- you have a right to self defense ( most states laws ). Someone threatens you with bodily injury with any (lethal?) weapon (baseball bat?) you have a right or self defense (maybe less than lethal).

If you are threatened with a firearm, knife or similar -- you take them out.

*not legal advice -- save your ass advice

Donny · 01-02-2013, 10:37 AM

That first commenter, despite his insults, was absolutely right m'man.

A person is no longer legally able to carry concealed if they've been drinking. And although I know the scenarios you described make sense in your head, there are 300 million guns owned by 80 million people in this country (HUGE numbers), yet those scenarios aren't playing out on the regular basis we'd expect to see if it was as simple as you made it out to be. Look around at every man, woman and child in this country. Statistically, 1 out of every 4 of them own guns. Road rage is common. Shooting people up is not. 80 million gun owners killed nobody yesterday.

D Ghost · 01-02-2013, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Donny

That first commenter, despite his insults, was absolutely right m'man.

A person is no longer legally able to carry concealed if they've been drinking. And although I know the scenarios you described make sense in your head, there are 300 million guns owned by 80 million people in this country (HUGE numbers), yet those scenarios aren't playing out on the regular basis we'd expect to see if it was as simple as you made it out to be. Look around at every man, woman and child in this country. Statistically, 1 out of every 4 of them own guns. Road rage is common. Shooting people up is not. 80 million gun owners killed nobody yesterday.

Donny, you are using logic but these anti-gun people don't understand logic. They don't understand that criminals don't obey the law.

They don't realize there are more prescription drug overdose deaths per year than firearm deaths. So why don't we ban prescription drugs? Because that's not something that will solve the issue. Just "banning" things that you don't like or agree with has never been a good solution to a problem.

The bottom line: if I want to own a gun, I'm going to. Stay out of my business and mind your own. People (in this country especially) have a really bad habit of telling other people what they should and shouldn't do. If they tried focusing on themselves and worrying about their own responsibilities instead of worrying why everyone else won't live they same way they do, things might be just a little bit better.

Tom_PM · 01-02-2013, 10:50 AM

Criminals never obey the law, that's why you dont bother to lock your door or protect your children. After all, if the criminal wants it bad enough they'll just kill everyone in their way, so there's no point whatsoever in regulating the type of weapons that can be manufactured and sold. If guns weren't invented, criminals would have invented them anyway. There's no point to doing anything, criminals will just kill you anyway.

D Ghost · 01-02-2013, 10:56 AM

Oh, I almost forgot to post this pic of me with a KRISS Vector

Tom_PM · 01-02-2013, 10:57 AM

Why bother? A criminal could use a drone and strike your house if he really wanted to.

D Ghost · 01-02-2013, 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PR_Tom

Why bother? A criminal could use a drone and strike your house if he really wanted to.

I know right, I guess we should also ban knives too. Anything "dangerous" let's just ban it. And let's put rubber on everything in the streets just incase we crash into it so we don't die. Let's be afraid at every turn we take in life and live our lives drown in fear. Take no risks and just shut ourselves in a little bubble and not go anywhere.

Donny · 01-02-2013, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ The Kid

I know right, I guess we should also ban knives too. Anything "dangerous" let's just ban it. And let's put rubber on everything in the streets just incase we crash into it so we don't die.

We won't need the rubber. Cars will be banned, too. Thousands die in them each year.

Rochard · 01-02-2013, 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grapesoda

the reality is you shoot and kill someone with a gun, for any reason you are going to jail while they sort everything thing out... and there is also a good chance you will be sued by the 'dead persons' family no matter why you shot them and if there is 'political racism' involved you stand even a bigger chance of going to prison.

There is a line that you cross when you shoot another person. No matter if the shooting was legal or not, you can spend years in court rooms and hundreds of thousands of dollars defending yourself.

I'm 44 and I've never known anyone any one who has been the victim for a "home invasion". The odds of this happening to me are pretty slim.

D Ghost · 01-02-2013, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Donny

We won't need the rubber. Cars will be banned, too. Thousands die in them each year.

baddog · 01-02-2013, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rochard

There is a line that you cross when you shoot another person. No matter if the shooting was legal or not, you can spend years in court rooms and hundreds of thousands of dollars defending yourself.

I'm 44 and I've never known anyone any one who has been the victim for a "home invasion". The odds of this happening to me are pretty slim.

And I have known 2 or 3

PornoMonster · 01-02-2013, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xenigo

You realize it's rather rare to hear of anyone killing someone who claimed it was NOT "self defense". The problem is that everyone seems to think their life is in danger, when they go about blasting their neighbor in the face because of their dog barking, etc. Get in an argument with someone over a parking space, get blasted in the face. Self defense? That's what they all say...

The problem with firearms is that people think they have a license to blow someone's brains out because they feel disrespected... and that loosely translates to them needing to "defend" themselves. More like needing to defend their manhood...

"Self defense" is subjective, and everyone has their own definition. I'd rather not leave my fate up to the guy who is itching to pull the trigger because he's had a bad day, or feels stressed out at work, or who's wife is about to leave him. I don't think you have to be defined as "mentally ill" to fall under the "hyper-emotional", "stressed out" or "on edge" category.

How many people have you heard yell "I'm gonna fucking kill you!" when someone drinks too much? I've certainly heard that a few times in my life. How do you stop that guy when they've got a 9mm on their hip? He has the gun legally... he's not "mentally ill"... he passed the background check. He's just really fucking pissed off that you looked at him weird when he started yelling and pushing people around in a bar... and now he's after you. He wants to protect himself from you.

He's going to "fight for his right to defend himself", and you're now his target. He's not a felon, just someone who's in a major rage at that one moment... and he's got a gun... and he's going to kill you.

He won't be showing up on any mental-illness radar. I think we all been in that guy's presence at some point or another.

This "self defense" stuff is too subjective for the general public.

http://www.ksn.com/news/local/story/...4pfHKFBGQ.cspx

D Ghost · 01-02-2013, 12:07 PM

Recent news stories where homeowners have shot intruders with guns. (Thumbs up)

http://www.abc15.com/dpp/news/region...t-in-n-phoenix (1/2/13)
http://www2.tbo.com/news/breaking-ne...dog-ar-596405/ (1/2/13)
http://fox8.com/2013/01/01/homeowner...-in-six-weeks/ (1/1/13)
http://www.wbbjtv.com/news/local/Hom...185179482.html (12/29/12)
http://www.12newsnow.com/story/20434...kills-intruder (12/27/12)
http://www.khou.com/news/local/Burgl...184934511.html (12/27/12)
http://www.examiner.com/article/arme...have-sleepover (12/24/12)
http://www.wral.com/intruder-killed-...sion/11885004/ (12/16/12)
http://www.thenewstribune.com/2012/1...in-summit.html (12/06/12)
http://fox40.com/2012/11/07/man-shoo...r-in-his-home/ (11/07/12)

These are just a tiny fraction, the list can go on and on and on... this happens on a daily basis.

PR_Glen · 01-02-2013, 12:09 PM

are there any gun nuts with any legitimate arguments or is it just all ego and flexing for you? I'm on the fence with the whole subject myself but you idiots couldn't create a sound argument if your lives depended on it..

personally? I can defend myself without a gun because i'm not a gigantic pussy...

PornoMonster · 01-02-2013, 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ The Kid

Recent news stories where homeowners have shot intruders with guns. (Thumbs up)

http://www.abc15.com/dpp/news/region...t-in-n-phoenix (1/2/13)
http://www2.tbo.com/news/breaking-ne...dog-ar-596405/ (1/2/13)
http://fox8.com/2013/01/01/homeowner...-in-six-weeks/ (1/1/13)
http://www.wbbjtv.com/news/local/Hom...185179482.html (12/29/12)
http://www.12newsnow.com/story/20434...kills-intruder (12/27/12)
http://www.khou.com/news/local/Burgl...184934511.html (12/27/12)
http://www.examiner.com/article/arme...have-sleepover (12/24/12)
http://www.wral.com/intruder-killed-...sion/11885004/ (12/16/12)
http://www.thenewstribune.com/2012/1...in-summit.html (12/06/12)
http://fox40.com/2012/11/07/man-shoo...r-in-his-home/ (11/07/12)

These are just a tiny fraction, the list can go on and on and on... this happens on a daily basis.

Just think how big the list is of home invasions where things didn't go so well.
I thing the stats for 2012 are going to be way up on home invasions and store robberies.

Tom_PM · 01-02-2013, 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ The Kid

I know right, I guess we should also ban knives too. Anything "dangerous" let's just ban it. And let's put rubber on everything in the streets just incase we crash into it so we don't die. Let's be afraid at every turn we take in life and live our lives drown in fear. Take no risks and just shut ourselves in a little bubble and not go anywhere.

Anti-regulation nuts (is it OK to call them that?) complain that people die from all kinds of things so why aren't we banning everything dangerous. So I come along and say why do you lock your house? I'm trying to get people to dredge up the answer from their own dusty attics that regulation is not a ban any more than locking your door is a total ban on all forced entries. They're both preventative measures you do to mitigate possible, potential unwanted damage and carnage.

Also, why own a firearm for protection if you feel that a criminal will always have a bigger illegal weapon than you? Just don't bother and save your money. If a criminal wants to bad enough, they'll kick your house down and murder everyone with their B52 bomber. What do they care about laws? They'll just steal the bomber and use it to rob you.

Rochard · 01-02-2013, 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barry-xlovecam

If someone breaks your door in, forced entry into your home -- you have a right to self defense ( most states laws ). Someone threatens you with bodily injury with any (lethal?) weapon (baseball bat?) you have a right or self defense (maybe less than lethal).

If you are threatened with a firearm, knife or similar -- you take them out.

*not legal advice -- save your ass advice

You might have the legal right of self defense, but you will most likely be required to prove this in court. You just shot another person and perhaps killed someone; The police aren't going to accept your explanation on the spot and allow you to go on your way. At the very least you are going down to the police station for questions. And no matter what, the family of the person shot has the right to sue.

Look at the guy in Florida who shot and killed that kid in self defense, or that man in Texas who shot two or three kids on his property. They are still in court fighting this crap.

pornmasta · 01-02-2013, 12:41 PM

here, its forbidden: you have to die but they will record your murder with cameras, then arrest the criminal and reuse your image on tv (+ your childrens if you have some), to show how awful was the criminal and how it is important to make new laws to reduce others' freedom

RKLover · 01-02-2013, 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Donny

That first commenter, despite his insults, was absolutely right m'man.

A person is no longer legally able to carry concealed if they've been drinking. And although I know the scenarios you described make sense in your head, there are 300 million guns owned by 80 million people in this country (HUGE numbers), yet those scenarios aren't playing out on the regular basis we'd expect to see if it was as simple as you made it out to be. Look around at every man, woman and child in this country. Statistically, 1 out of every 4 of them own guns. Road rage is common. Shooting people up is not. 80 million gun owners killed nobody yesterday.

I agree with a lot of what you said. However - we average about 30 homicides involving firearms every day of the year in America. In over 60% of those, the gun owner is killed with their own weapon! Isn't that ironic?

Elli · 01-02-2013, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rochard

There is a line that you cross when you shoot another person. No matter if the shooting was legal or not, you can spend years in court rooms and hundreds of thousands of dollars defending yourself.

I'm 44 and I've never known anyone any one who has been the victim for a "home invasion". The odds of this happening to me are pretty slim.

I was "home invaded" twice at an ex's house. The first time they came with crowbars and the second time they came with guns. Absolutely same result both times, except the one with the crowbar broke someone's arm when he tried to block their entry. Yes, there was a gun in the house for self defense, yes, it was in an easily grabbable place, no, it was not pulled on anyone because it was out of reach and yes, it was used against us after it was found. So... personally I'll take the crowbar over a gun.

Vendzilla · 01-02-2013, 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PR_Tom

Why bother? A criminal could use a drone and strike your house if he really wanted to.

You keep bringing up drones like it can't happen? Ever been to a R/C hobby shop or read http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/anar...0974458908&r=1

it can happen, http://diydrones.com/ , already there!

atom · 01-02-2013, 01:06 PM

My good friend in high school had his house broken into. The guy who broke into the house had a big survival style knife. (although at the time my friends dad did not know what he was armed with) My friends dad shot and killed the guy. He had his wife, son and 2 daughters in the house to protect.

My friends father ended up being arrested, spending 3 months in jail and going to trial.

While he was eventually found not guilty by a jury, he racked up 10's of 1000's in legal fee's. This caused such great stress on the family that him and his wife ended up getting divorced within the year.

They tell you in classes here that if you do pull the trigger on someone it will cost you the follow,

- at least 10k in legal fee's
- at least 1 week in jail
- most likely your job.
- going though the rest of your life wondering if there could have been a way to avoid taking the life of another human being.

Minnesota is not a stand your ground state. You must have exercised every option to escape before you pull your gun and use it. You can not claim self defense unless you can prove that you felt your life was in danger and there were no possible ways to escape the situation. - be prepared to have a prosecutor pick this apart even if you are 100% right.

Vendzilla · 01-02-2013, 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rochard

You might have the legal right of self defense, but you will most likely be required to prove this in court. You just shot another person and perhaps killed someone; The police aren't going to accept your explanation on the spot and allow you to go on your way. At the very least you are going down to the police station for questions. And no matter what, the family of the person shot has the right to sue.

Look at the guy in Florida who shot and killed that kid in self defense, or that man in Texas who shot two or three kids on his property. They are still in court fighting this crap.

When it's in your home and the attacker is dead, it's your word against the DEAD guy, your testimony is a little stronger that way. No one really gives a shit about the invader......

Rochard · 01-02-2013, 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elli

I was "home invaded" twice at an ex's house. The first time they came with crowbars and the second time they came with guns. Absolutely same result both times, except the one with the crowbar broke someone's arm when he tried to block their entry. Yes, there was a gun in the house for self defense, yes, it was in an easily grabbable place, no, it was not pulled on anyone because it was out of reach and yes, it was used against us after it was found. So... personally I'll take the crowbar over a gun.

That's amazing - your house was "invaded" twice?

So let me see if I understand this correctly... You were invaded, had a firearm, was unable to pull it out in time, and then later on the firearm was used against you?

woj · 01-02-2013, 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baddog

And I have known 2 or 3

advise them to move out of the ghetto?

Best-In-BC · 01-02-2013, 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rochard

And no matter what, the family of the person shot has the right to sue.

Thats where intelligence went out the window

Vendzilla · 01-02-2013, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by atom

My good friend in high school had his house broken into. The guy who broke into the house had a big survival style knife. (although at the time my friends dad did not know what he was armed with) My friends dad shot and killed the guy. He had his wife, son and 2 daughters in the house to protect.

My friends father ended up being arrested, spending 3 months in jail and going to trial.

While he was eventually found not guilty by a jury, he racked up 10's of 1000's in legal fee's. This caused such great stress on the family that him and his wife ended up getting divorced within the year.

They tell you in classes here that if you do pull the trigger on someone it will cost you the follow,

- at least 10k in legal fee's
- at least 1 week in jail
- most likely your job.
- going though the rest of your life wondering if there could have been a way to avoid taking the life of another human being.

Minnesota is not a stand your ground state. You must have exercised every option to escape before you pull your gun and use it. You can not claim self defense unless you can prove that you felt your life was in danger and there were no possible ways to escape the situation. - be prepared to have a prosecutor pick this apart even if you are 100% right.

He could have have just left the door unlocked and let the guy with the knife have his way with his wife and daughters. I hope the fuck you are kidding if you are suppose to take in considerations for legal fees if your family is in danger and who gives a fuck about a wife that would leave because you defended your family?

woj · 01-02-2013, 01:20 PM

having a gun for protection against "intruders" is kinda like wearing a helmet while driving a car...
odds of getting killed in a car accident are 100x greater, yet no one wears a helmet? why not?

sperbonzo · 01-02-2013, 01:20 PM

I know you guys are having fun with your anecdotes and suppositions, but perhaps I could include some actual research into this discussion?

That study found that there were somewhere between 830,000 and 2.45 million defensive gun uses per year in the United States.

Look up the study by Gary Kleck and Marc Gertz, “Armed Resistance to Crime: The Prevalence and Nature of Self-Defense with a Gun,” Journal of Criminal Law and Criminology 86 (1995): 173

If you are interested in what is ACTUALLY happening regarding guns and self-defense, rather than just what your favorite media outlet chooses to tell you, perhaps you can make a little effort to find out.

Here is a link to the study:

http://www.saf.org/lawreviews/kleckandgertz1.htm

.

PornoMonster · 01-02-2013, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by atom

My good friend in high school had his house broken into. The guy who broke into the house had a big survival style knife. (although at the time my friends dad did not know what he was armed with) My friends dad shot and killed the guy. He had his wife, son and 2 daughters in the house to protect.

My friends father ended up being arrested, spending 3 months in jail and going to trial.

While he was eventually found not guilty by a jury, he racked up 10's of 1000's in legal fee's. This caused such great stress on the family that him and his wife ended up getting divorced within the year.

They tell you in classes here that if you do pull the trigger on someone it will cost you the follow,

- at least 10k in legal fee's
- at least 1 week in jail
- most likely your job.
- going though the rest of your life wondering if there could have been a way to avoid taking the life of another human being.

Minnesota is not a stand your ground state. You must have exercised every option to escape before you pull your gun and use it. You can not claim self defense unless you can prove that you felt your life was in danger and there were no possible ways to escape the situation. - be prepared to have a prosecutor pick this apart even if you are 100% right.

Better than being dead or worse yet being alive and wondering if you could of done something better to have saved your wifes and kids life!
Stupid law that you can not stand your own ground in your own house!

PornoMonster · 01-02-2013, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by woj

having a gun for protection against "intruders" is kinda like wearing a helmet while driving a car...
odds of getting killed in a car accident are 100x greater, yet no one wears a helmet? why not?

We are required to wear a seat belt now!

Dirty F · 01-02-2013, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by woj

advise them to move out of the ghetto?

Every gun nut here seems to live in an area full of rapists and murderers and only know people who had their house broken into. Funny how that works.

L-Pink · 01-02-2013, 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PR_Glen

personally? I can defend myself without a gun because i'm not a gigantic pussy...

Well what if you are the target of 3 young guys? Someone with a baseball bat or knife? Or someone with a gun? I don't consider myself a pussy either but most fights end up on the ground and I'm to old for that shit.

As far as ego, I have walked away from conflicts without feeling the least bit of shame. No one wins in a fight. But break into my home and why should I be concerned with shooting you?

.

L-Pink · 01-02-2013, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirty F

And that's exactly the reason why i'm so happy to live in a country where only criminals have guns. I wouldn't want it any other way.
No smart person would.

All I can say is your criminals must be very different than the scum we have here. Congratulations on a culture/society that must not be as fucked up as ours.

.

BlackAndBlue · 01-02-2013, 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ The Kid

Donny, you are using logic but these anti-gun people don't understand logic. They don't understand that criminals don't obey the law.

They don't realize there are more prescription drug overdose deaths per year than firearm deaths. So why don't we ban prescription drugs? Because that's not something that will solve the issue. Just "banning" things that you don't like or agree with has never been a good solution to a problem.

The bottom line: if I want to own a gun, I'm going to. Stay out of my business and mind your own. People (in this country especially) have a really bad habit of telling other people what they should and shouldn't do. If they tried focusing on themselves and worrying about their own responsibilities instead of worrying why everyone else won't live they same way they do, things might be just a little bit better.

AMEN! What a concept -- mind your own business and make decisions based on your personal code of conduct, instead of dictating to everyone else what's "right".

Until you have had to defend yourself with a gun, you have no room to declare anything more than a personal opinion, not as a fact.

Bryan G · 01-02-2013, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ The Kid

Donny, you are using logic but these anti-gun people don't understand logic. They don't understand that criminals don't obey the law.

They don't realize there are more prescription drug overdose deaths per year than firearm deaths. So why don't we ban prescription drugs? Because that's not something that will solve the issue. Just "banning" things that you don't like or agree with has never been a good solution to a problem.

The bottom line: if I want to own a gun, I'm going to. Stay out of my business and mind your own. People (in this country especially) have a really bad habit of telling other people what they should and shouldn't do. If they tried focusing on themselves and worrying about their own responsibilities instead of worrying why everyone else won't live they same way they do, things might be just a little bit better.

Was Adam Lanza a criminal before he killed 20 innocent kids? I don't believe he was.

L-Pink · 01-02-2013, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryan G

Was Adam Lanza a criminal before he killed 20 innocent kids? I don't believe he was.

His haircut was criminal.

.

Vendzilla · 01-02-2013, 02:18 PM

well, in the end, this is one solid fact, gun ownership is up and crime has been going down, more states have enacted CCW permits and education of the use of guns is up.

What happened in Newtown was terrible, but we are not the only country to have that happen to.

11 March 2009 at a secondary school in Winnenden, Baden-Württemberg, in southwestern Germany where a 9mm pistol was used and 16 dead, there was also another bad one in 2002 in Erfurt Germany where 15 were shot dead.

Germany being one of the strictest in Gun restrictions in the world.

Elli · 01-02-2013, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rochard

That's amazing - your house was "invaded" twice?

So let me see if I understand this correctly... You were invaded, had a firearm, was unable to pull it out in time, and then later on the firearm was used against you?

The firearm was not mine. It belonged to the owner of the house. The owner was trained in its use. The firearm (handgun) was in the living room, but the owner was in the kitchen during the breakin. There was also a Mossberg shotgun in the bedroom closet, which left it similarly out of reach.

I was in the basement suite with my ex both times. Not fun. Not at all. But everyone survived and noone was hurt other than the broken arm. The bad guys were never caught, but all the got was money and a few jewelry items and my entire CD collection

so no huge harm was done. The whole ordeal (both times) was done in 10-20 minutes.

I shudder to think how things would have escalated if a gun went off.

Bryan G · 01-02-2013, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vendzilla

well, in the end, this is one solid fact, gun ownership is up and crime has been going down, more states have enacted CCW permits and education of the use of guns is up.

What happened in Newtown was terrible, but we are not the only country to have that happen to.

11 March 2009 at a secondary school in Winnenden, Baden-Württemberg, in southwestern Germany where a 9mm pistol was used and 16 dead, there was also another bad one in 2002 in Erfurt Germany where 15 were shot dead.

Germany being one of the strictest in Gun restrictions in the world.

It can happen in any country, its happened up here as well. Its just becoming all to common down in the US. I agree that its people that kill people and not guns. However, with guns being to easily accessible in the US it makes in much much easier for a nutjob to go off and kill many people at one go. People that use the argement "well cars kill people" Really when was the last time 27 people were killed by someone in one go?

sandman! · 01-02-2013, 02:31 PM

more anti gun bullshit coming from where most bullshit in this country comes from

pornmasta · 01-02-2013, 02:50 PM

MakingItPay · 01-02-2013, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rochard

There is a line that you cross when you shoot another person. No matter if the shooting was legal or not, you can spend years in court rooms and hundreds of thousands of dollars defending yourself.

I'm 44 and I've never known anyone any one who has been the victim for a "home invasion". The odds of this happening to me are pretty slim.

Better to be dead I guess. You save time and money!

Do you know anybody that shot up a school? Odds are pretty slim, but it makes gun grabbers want to take action though right?

Vendzilla · 01-02-2013, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryan G

It can happen in any country, its happened up here as well. Its just becoming all to common down in the US. I agree that its people that kill people and not guns. However, with guns being to easily accessible in the US it makes in much much easier for a nutjob to go off and kill many people at one go. People that use the argement "well cars kill people" Really when was the last time 27 people were killed by someone in one go?

Actually, the term road rage was coined during the freeway shootings in Los Angeles in 87 and 88 on the 405, 110 and 10 freeways.

It was weird driving during that time, drivers we becoming courteous drivers for a while, I wasn't use to that.....

Everything kills people, old age kills people, can't stop that. Doctors misdiagnosis kills more people than firearms. People still smoke cigarettes , more deaths than gun related, yet they are still legal.
I hold on to the fact that I want to keep the right to protect myself. If the gun I have legally is more powerful than the idiot that's trying to hurt me, that's in my favor. I didn't have to take a safety course to buy a gun, I had a DD-214 from the military.

01-02-2013, 06:37 AM	#1
xenigo Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Oakland, CA Posts: 8,067	Self-defense using a firearm... You realize it's rather rare to hear of anyone killing someone who claimed it was NOT "self defense". The problem is that everyone seems to think their life is in danger, when they go about blasting their neighbor in the face because of their dog barking, etc. Get in an argument with someone over a parking space, get blasted in the face. Self defense? That's what they all say... The problem with firearms is that people think they have a license to blow someone's brains out because they feel disrespected... and that loosely translates to them needing to "defend" themselves. More like needing to defend their manhood... "Self defense" is subjective, and everyone has their own definition. I'd rather not leave my fate up to the guy who is itching to pull the trigger because he's had a bad day, or feels stressed out at work, or who's wife is about to leave him. I don't think you have to be defined as "mentally ill" to fall under the "hyper-emotional", "stressed out" or "on edge" category. How many people have you heard yell "I'm gonna fucking kill you!" when someone drinks too much? I've certainly heard that a few times in my life. How do you stop that guy when they've got a 9mm on their hip? He has the gun legally... he's not "mentally ill"... he passed the background check. He's just really fucking pissed off that you looked at him weird when he started yelling and pushing people around in a bar... and now he's after you. He wants to protect himself from you. He's going to "fight for his right to defend himself", and you're now his target. He's not a felon, just someone who's in a major rage at that one moment... and he's got a gun... and he's going to kill you. He won't be showing up on any mental-illness radar. I think we all been in that guy's presence at some point or another. This "self defense" stuff is too subjective for the general public.

01-02-2013, 10:06 AM	#7
Barry-xlovecam It's 42 Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Global Posts: 18,083	If someone breaks your door in, forced entry into your home -- you have a right to self defense ( most states laws ). Someone threatens you with bodily injury with any (lethal?) weapon (baseball bat?) you have a right or self defense (maybe less than lethal). If you are threatened with a firearm, knife or similar -- you take them out. *not legal advice -- save your ass advice

01-02-2013, 10:50 AM	#10
Tom_PM Porn Meister Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 16,443	Criminals never obey the law, that's why you dont bother to lock your door or protect your children. After all, if the criminal wants it bad enough they'll just kill everyone in their way, so there's no point whatsoever in regulating the type of weapons that can be manufactured and sold. If guns weren't invented, criminals would have invented them anyway. There's no point to doing anything, criminals will just kill you anyway. __________________ 43-922-863 Shut up and play your guitar.

01-02-2013, 10:57 AM	#12
Tom_PM Porn Meister Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 16,443	Why bother? A criminal could use a drone and strike your house if he really wanted to. __________________ 43-922-863 Shut up and play your guitar.

01-02-2013, 12:07 PM	#19
D Ghost null Industry Role: Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 9,820	Recent news stories where homeowners have shot intruders with guns. (Thumbs up) http://www.abc15.com/dpp/news/region...t-in-n-phoenix (1/2/13) http://www2.tbo.com/news/breaking-ne...dog-ar-596405/ (1/2/13) http://fox8.com/2013/01/01/homeowner...-in-six-weeks/ (1/1/13) http://www.wbbjtv.com/news/local/Hom...185179482.html (12/29/12) http://www.12newsnow.com/story/20434...kills-intruder (12/27/12) http://www.khou.com/news/local/Burgl...184934511.html (12/27/12) http://www.examiner.com/article/arme...have-sleepover (12/24/12) http://www.wral.com/intruder-killed-...sion/11885004/ (12/16/12) http://www.thenewstribune.com/2012/1...in-summit.html (12/06/12) http://fox40.com/2012/11/07/man-shoo...r-in-his-home/ (11/07/12) These are just a tiny fraction, the list can go on and on and on... this happens on a daily basis. Last edited by D Ghost; 01-02-2013 at 12:09 PM..

01-02-2013, 10:37 AM	#8
Donny As you wish... Industry Role: Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 13,754	That first commenter, despite his insults, was absolutely right m'man. A person is no longer legally able to carry concealed if they've been drinking. And although I know the scenarios you described make sense in your head, there are 300 million guns owned by 80 million people in this country (HUGE numbers), yet those scenarios aren't playing out on the regular basis we'd expect to see if it was as simple as you made it out to be. Look around at every man, woman and child in this country. Statistically, 1 out of every 4 of them own guns. Road rage is common. Shooting people up is not. 80 million gun owners killed nobody yesterday.

01-02-2013, 10:56 AM	#11
D Ghost null Industry Role: Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 9,820	Oh, I almost forgot to post this pic of me with a KRISS Vector

01-02-2013, 12:09 PM	#20
PR_Glen Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Canada Posts: 9,058	are there any gun nuts with any legitimate arguments or is it just all ego and flexing for you? I'm on the fence with the whole subject myself but you idiots couldn't create a sound argument if your lives depended on it.. personally? I can defend myself without a gun because i'm not a gigantic pussy... __________________ webmaster at pimproll dot com

01-02-2013, 12:41 PM	#24
pornmasta Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 19,217	here, its forbidden: you have to die but they will record your murder with cameras, then arrest the criminal and reuse your image on tv (+ your childrens if you have some), to show how awful was the criminal and how it is important to make new laws to reduce others' freedom

01-02-2013, 01:06 PM	#28
atom Confirmed User Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Minneapolis Posts: 2,740	My good friend in high school had his house broken into. The guy who broke into the house had a big survival style knife. (although at the time my friends dad did not know what he was armed with) My friends dad shot and killed the guy. He had his wife, son and 2 daughters in the house to protect. My friends father ended up being arrested, spending 3 months in jail and going to trial. While he was eventually found not guilty by a jury, he racked up 10's of 1000's in legal fee's. This caused such great stress on the family that him and his wife ended up getting divorced within the year. They tell you in classes here that if you do pull the trigger on someone it will cost you the follow, - at least 10k in legal fee's - at least 1 week in jail - most likely your job. - going though the rest of your life wondering if there could have been a way to avoid taking the life of another human being. Minnesota is not a stand your ground state. You must have exercised every option to escape before you pull your gun and use it. You can not claim self defense unless you can prove that you felt your life was in danger and there were no possible ways to escape the situation. - be prepared to have a prosecutor pick this apart even if you are 100% right. __________________ Have Chargebacks? Send me a message. ChargebackHelp.com

01-02-2013, 01:20 PM	#34
woj <&(©¿©)&> Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Chicago Posts: 47,882	having a gun for protection against "intruders" is kinda like wearing a helmet while driving a car... odds of getting killed in a car accident are 100x greater, yet no one wears a helmet? why not? __________________ Custom Software Development, email: woj#at#wojfun#.#com to discuss details or skype: wojl2000 or gchat: wojfun or telegram: wojl2000 Affiliate program tools: Hosted Galleries Manager Banner Manager Video Manager Wordpress Affiliate Plugin Pic/Movie of the Day Fansign Generator Zip Manager

01-02-2013, 01:20 PM	#35
sperbonzo I'd rather be on my boat. Industry Role: Join Date: May 2003 Location: Miami, FL Posts: 9,748	I know you guys are having fun with your anecdotes and suppositions, but perhaps I could include some actual research into this discussion? That study found that there were somewhere between 830,000 and 2.45 million defensive gun uses per year in the United States. Look up the study by Gary Kleck and Marc Gertz, “Armed Resistance to Crime: The Prevalence and Nature of Self-Defense with a Gun,” Journal of Criminal Law and Criminology 86 (1995): 173 If you are interested in what is ACTUALLY happening regarding guns and self-defense, rather than just what your favorite media outlet chooses to tell you, perhaps you can make a little effort to find out. Here is a link to the study: http://www.saf.org/lawreviews/kleckandgertz1.htm . __________________ Michael Sperber / Acella Financial LLC/ Online Payment Processing [email protected] / http://Acellafinancial.com/ ICQ 177961090 / Tel +1 909 NET BILL / Skype msperber

01-02-2013, 02:18 PM	#44
Vendzilla Biker Gnome Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: cell#324 Posts: 23,200	well, in the end, this is one solid fact, gun ownership is up and crime has been going down, more states have enacted CCW permits and education of the use of guns is up. What happened in Newtown was terrible, but we are not the only country to have that happen to. 11 March 2009 at a secondary school in Winnenden, Baden-Württemberg, in southwestern Germany where a 9mm pistol was used and 16 dead, there was also another bad one in 2002 in Erfurt Germany where 15 were shot dead. Germany being one of the strictest in Gun restrictions in the world. __________________ Webair died? Carbon is not the problem, it makes up 0.041% of our atmosphere , 95% of that is from Volcanos and decomposing plants and stuff. So people in the US are responsible for 13% of the carbon in the atmosphere which 95% is not from Humans, like cars and trucks and stuff and they want to spend trillions to fix it while Solar Panel plants are powered by coal plants think about that

01-02-2013, 02:31 PM	#47
sandman! Icq: 14420613 Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: chicago Posts: 15,432	more anti gun bullshit coming from where most bullshit in this country comes from __________________ Need WebHosting ? Email me for some great deals [email protected]

01-02-2013, 02:50 PM	#48
pornmasta Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 19,217