Originally Posted by Minte (Post 19300144)

America has spoken..

Clearly I don't like or respect what they said. But it is what it is.

I do feel for the generations coming up though. Work hard, graduate from college with enormous debt only to not find a job. Or if they do, probably not one that is going to pay well.

If the country is morphing to a nannie state then all I can say is I was lucky to be alive in the 60's and have an opportunity to build and grow a business. The changes today in society are not ones I would ever choose for anyone.

In a couple of hundred years, assuming there still is a human race I imagine that they will look at the US dynasty that existed for about 60 years and look to this period of time as about when it ended.
Nothing lasts forever!

My only comment on paying more tax is..you were right all the time. I will certainly pay more, but at the end of the day it won't make a bit of difference to my lifestyle.

Originally Posted by mineistaken (Post 19302901)

well said :thumbsup
I am still shocked that there were decent citizens (except gays and blacks - they automatically vote democrats) on this forum who voted other way than what Minte voted for. Sad day for your nation, buddy.
From now on number of 47% will only increase and once its 51% - its doomed probably for ever.

Originally Posted by Minte (Post 19302723)

This is true...We have a complete binder of HOTTIES!

Originally Posted by epitome (Post 19302947)

Herman Cain and I dispute that black people and gays only vote democrat. It is trending that way recently because the religious right has taken over the Republican party. Republicans have nobody but themselves to blame for that.

Originally Posted by selena (Post 19303353)

Though not black or gay, the religious right has done HUGE damage to the Republican party.

I'm a fiscal moderate and a social liberal. I voted Republican in every Presidential election until 08. I cannot fathom casting a vote for any Republican candidate now.

Until the party can wrap it's mind around the fact that embracing the lunatic fringe is harming it, people like me are going to continue to vote Democrat.

Originally Posted by mineistaken (Post 19303432)

Who cares if they are religious, its not that being religious makes you worse problem solver.

Originally Posted by epitome (Post 19303451)

I cannot believe I even have to explain this to someone but...

Their religion is almost always factored into their social positions. Most of us prefer to live and let live but the religious tend to have a hard time grasping that concept.

Originally Posted by mineistaken (Post 19303432)

Who cares if they are religious, its not that being religious makes you worse problem solver.

Originally Posted by mineistaken (Post 19303457)

Yeah, you would definitely be restraint if they won, you could not lead your normal social life.

Originally Posted by Rockhound (Post 19303468)

What's with all the Minte bashing ??? I owe a lot of what I know to him and he helped me tremendously when I was starting out and am still thankful for what he did. As to paying more taxes and such I feel the society as a whole is getting quite scary with radical views being shown from all sides and guess what? I am Canadian and we see scary society ideologies happening everywhere. There are obs out there maybe not the first one you would want but get one and get an income before complaining there aren't any jobs at all and while you have that job nothing prevents you to keep aspiring for something better and when you do get it yo will be even prouder to have achieved it as the road was harder than you expected and you will work always harder knowing what you went through to get there.

Originally Posted by selena (Post 19303470)

If you can't figure out the problem that the religious right causes the Republican party

Originally Posted by epitome (Post 19303474)

Yes because clearly my social life is the most important thing to me.

You're dense.

Edit: Oh, you think that social positions means social life? Wow now I'm really not going to bother anymore.

Originally Posted by mineistaken (Post 19303432)

Who cares if they are religious, its not that being religious makes you worse problem solver.

Originally Posted by mineistaken (Post 19303432)

Who cares if they are religious, its not that being religious makes you worse problem solver.

Originally Posted by Minte (Post 19300144)

America has spoken..

Clearly I don't like or respect what they said. But it is what it is.

I do feel for the generations coming up though. Work hard, graduate from college with enormous debt only to not find a job. Or if they do, probably not one that is going to pay well.

If the country is morphing to a nannie state then all I can say is I was lucky to be alive in the 60's and have an opportunity to build and grow a business. The changes today in society are not ones I would ever choose for anyone.

In a couple of hundred years, assuming there still is a human race I imagine that they will look at the US dynasty that existed for about 60 years and look to this period of time as about when it ended.
Nothing lasts forever!

My only comment on paying more tax is..you were right all the time. I will certainly pay more, but at the end of the day it won't make a bit of difference to my lifestyle.

Originally Posted by BlackCrayon (Post 19303985)

if republicans dropped their 1950's social views in favor of modern ones, they'd get a lot more votes. it would also help if their candidate wasn't scrooge mcduck/the monopoly guy. people want to vote in progressive thinking people, not those who think the only real americans are nuclear families who go to church every sunday.

Originally Posted by 12clicks (Post 19303991)

Agreed.
All we can do now is protect our assets from the rabble that will now vote to take it simply because we earned it and they didn't.
Sad but not totally unexpected.

Originally Posted by Rockhound (Post 19303468)

What's with all the Minte bashing ??? I owe a lot of what I know to him and he helped me tremendously when I was starting out and am still thankful for what he did. As to paying more taxes and such I feel the society as a whole is getting quite scary with radical views being shown from all sides and guess what? I am Canadian and we see scary society ideologies happening everywhere. There are obs out there maybe not the first one you would want but get one and get an income before complaining there aren't any jobs at all and while you have that job nothing prevents you to keep aspiring for something better and when you do get it yo will be even prouder to have achieved it as the road was harder than you expected and you will work always harder knowing what you went through to get there.

Originally Posted by Rochard (Post 19304148)

I don't mean to be bashing Minte. Or anyone for that matter.

But Minte is telling us that if his taxes are raised, it will not change his lifestyle at all. He wants the rich to be taxed less and the middle class to be taxed more because he seems to feel he's earned it and he's entitled.

Originally Posted by Rochard (Post 19304148)

I don't mean to be bashing Minte. Or anyone for that matter.

But Minte is telling us that if his taxes are raised, it will not change his lifestyle at all. He wants the rich to be taxed less and the middle class to be taxed more because he seems to feel he's earned it and he's entitled.

Originally Posted by Rochard (Post 19304148)

I don't mean to be bashing Minte. Or anyone for that matter.

But Minte is telling us that if his taxes are raised, it will not change his lifestyle at all. He wants the rich to be taxed less and the middle class to be taxed more because he seems to feel he's earned it and he's entitled.

Originally Posted by Ed Hammer (Post 19304162)

Isn't that how America is supposed to be? I always learned as a kid to work hard and you can be anything you want. People come here for freedom and a chance to work and build a good life for themselves and their family.

I have never heard anyone say they wanted the middle class to be taxed more. It's crazy how people think that 13% = 3 million a year is less than 30% = 5K a year....

Originally Posted by Ed Hammer (Post 19304162)

Isn't that how America is supposed to be? I always learned as a kid to work hard and you can be anything you want. People come here for freedom and a chance to work and build a good life for themselves and their family.

I have never heard anyone say they wanted the middle class to be taxed more. It's crazy how people think that 13% = 3 million a year is less than 30% = 5K a year....

Originally Posted by BlackCrayon (Post 19304176)

people are losing hope in the american dream. at some point it started to become less and less obtainable. probably around the same time we lost most manufacturing jobs.

Originally Posted by mineistaken (Post 19303496)

Same question (as above) to you.

Originally Posted by Minte (Post 19304158)

You are really as dumb as you appear.

I have said, more than once, I don't want anyone to be taxed more. I also asked you nicely in the other thread to stop putting words in my mouth.

What is it going to take for you to give it a rest about what you say Minte thinks.

Originally Posted by Ed Hammer (Post 19304162)

Isn't that how America is supposed to be? I always learned as a kid to work hard and you can be anything you want. People come here for freedom and a chance to work and build a good life for themselves and their family.

I have never heard anyone say they wanted the middle class to be taxed more. It's crazy how people think that 13% = 3 million a year is less than 30% = 5K a year....

Originally Posted by tony286 (Post 19304207)

Dude is less based on amount earned. Alot of the american dream was to do better then your parents. This will be the first generation that wont have that. There was a time dad could work and pay all the bills. Kids went to good schools. You could work a part time job and put yourself thru college without a mountain of debt. Shit Andy Grove when to free public college in NY.
A factory worker made enough to own a house, a couple of cars and could put his kids thru school. So the next generation did better. That's very very hard now.
Not everyone wants to be master of the universe, they want to go to work do a good job and be able to take care of their family that's getting harder and harder to do in the US.

Originally Posted by geedub (Post 19304218)

The people have changed not the opportunities available to them.

Originally Posted by tony286 (Post 19304207)

Dude is less based on amount earned. Alot of the american dream was to do better then your parents. This will be the first generation that wont have that. There was a time dad could work and pay all the bills. Kids went to good schools. You could work a part time job and put yourself thru college without a mountain of debt. Shit Andy Grove when to free public college in NY.
A factory worker made enough to own a house, a couple of cars and could put his kids thru school. So the next generation did better. That's very very hard now.
Not everyone wants to be master of the universe, they want to go to work do a good job and be able to take care of their family that's getting harder and harder to do in the US.

Originally Posted by tony286 (Post 19304228)

You go to school now you got a mortgage of debt when you get out it wasnt always like that.

Originally Posted by Ed Hammer (Post 19304232)

Bashing job creators doesn't help any of that. We just need our jobs back.

a. little or no tax to any company that can stamp "made in the USA" and employees at least X amount of people.

b. tax the hell out of anything being imported, to the point that you will lose money by not having your company in America.

c, d, c, d :1orglaugh

Originally Posted by Sly (Post 19304240)

For once we agree Tony. It wasn't always like that. 50-100 years ago you had to pay for your own schooling, there was no financing. Now, people have options.

I have 28 cousins, including my brothers. I'm counting them right now. 16 of them have gone through college, five of those have gone through additional schooling (to get Masters.) I have three cousins that are not at the college age yet, each of them will go to college as well. Every single one of them went to college on a scholarship or a financial program.

Things are definitely not like the used to be.

Originally Posted by tony286 (Post 19304246)

First they arent job creators because they have money. Most of the small businesses I worked for in my life not one of them was rich .They worked hard, didwell but not omg at all. And secondly I agree with you but a isnt the one that will work b will have to happen and no politician has got the balls when it costs 2 billion to become president.
Because zero taxes dont matter if it costs 1 dollars an hour to hire someone is china and they are basically slaves.

Originally Posted by Ed Hammer (Post 19304268)

I have owned a few small businesses, I was never rich, and no matter how much money came in, it was going right back out. I could have made just as much working for someone else without having the headache of responsibility. but I did supply 4 to 6 people with a job that they actually enjoyed. I'd rather work at a place I like and make less $, than work somewhere I had to force myself to go into work for a check... I don't consider myself a job creator, Just a entrepreneur.

I think both need to happen. If a company has one thousand employees and doesn't pay taxes on the company there are still taxes being paid from those one thousand employees.
People are not making as much money as before, yet we are all being taxed to death!

Originally Posted by Sly (Post 19304192)

This happened when people stop believing.

The American Dream was never about obtaining anything easily. It was about having the opportunity to get out there, use your skills, and create a better life for yourself.

Those families that moved to this country throughout the past 200 years came for a better life. Came for the opportunity to put their skills to work. Came to bust their ass to become everything they could be. None of that was easy. The same holds true today.

It makes me sad when people say the American Dream doesn't exist anymore. It is alive and well, if you want it bad enough.

Originally Posted by NewNick (Post 19303877)

It matters when they look to their bible for answers to complex issues rather than working things out in a rational and intelligent manner.

i.e.

"Rape victims should not be allowed abortions because it is gods will that a baby be born from that union".

Positions like that are only going to marginalize the Republican Party. The longer the republicans ignore this fact - happy days for the democrats.

:2 cents:

Originally Posted by Minte (Post 19304158)

I have said, more than once, I don't want anyone to be taxed more. I also asked you nicely in the other thread to stop putting words in my mouth.

Originally Posted by Minte (Post 19294018)

Originally Posted by Ed Hammer (Post 19304162)

Isn't that how America is supposed to be? I always learned as a kid to work hard and you can be anything you want. People come here for freedom and a chance to work and build a good life for themselves and their family.

Originally Posted by Rochard (Post 19304313)

Which is Romney's entire platform - He's going to magically lower taxes for everyone while creating jobs and reducing the deficit.

Sounds to me like you are saying "Don't tax me more":

Originally Posted by BlackCrayon (Post 19303985)

if republicans dropped their 1950's social views in favor of modern ones, they'd get a lot more votes. it would also help if their candidate wasn't scrooge mcduck/the monopoly guy. people want to vote in progressive thinking people, not those who think the only real americans are nuclear families who go to church every sunday.

Originally Posted by Minte (Post 19304338)

Then you should go back to school and take some reading comprehension classes.

Where do I say I want anyone to get taxed more.

I will save you the time looking. I NEVER have said that. I have said countless times that I think the government should spend less.

Originally Posted by BlackCrayon (Post 19304292)

why do people stop believing though? unless you are extremely innovative or can capture an emerging market, its much harder than in the days before every niche and corner has been filled by those with far deeper pockets, who can survive on razor thing profit margins due to the sheer volume of sales. and today the american dream means to be rich, at least that what it seems. just making a better life for yourself isn't enough anymore.

Originally Posted by sperbonzo (Post 19304354)

^^^QFT


Interestingly, it looks like taxes may go up on everybody next year anyway....






http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxto...scal-cliff.cfm






http://www.urban.org/fiscal-cliff/im...HighRez-01.jpg

http://www.urban.org/fiscal-cliff/im...HighRez-02.jpg




:2 cents:.

Originally Posted by Sly (Post 19304357)

I guess we have different definitions of The American Dream. Kind of sad that everyone thinks they must be rich and they can't have a great life unless they are rich.

Every time I meet an immigrant I ask them how they like America. The reply is always the same. "I love it."

That's what The American Dream is to me. Not sure what to tell all of those that dream of getting rich easily. That was never The Dream before, not sure why it suddenly is now, but that is more of a delusion than a dream. Very few people get rich easily. Sitting on the couch complaining about it is certainly not going to make that dream, or delusion, come true any quicker.

I have strong feelings about this subject. I guess I'm biased. My story is a little different than most. I believe that if *I* can live out what I consider to be The American Dream, than anyone can. I wish more would see it that way.

Originally Posted by Minte (Post 19304362)

The huge disappointment in this graph, is that we all know that everyone will get an increase in their tax bill and it won't even come close to reducing the deficit.

Originally Posted by MaDalton (Post 19300184)

thats what the german minister of foreign affairs said back then - right in the face of Rumsfeld

Originally Posted by mineistaken (Post 19303496)

Same question (as above) to you.