Vendzilla

Ok, you're saying under Barry, GM is doing better?
http://www.forbes.com/sites/louiswoo...kruptcy-again/

Let's ask the experts who is better, we can ask a member of Obama's Council on Jobs and Competitiveness

Intel CEO Paul Otellini, a member of President Barack Obama?s Council on Jobs and Competitiveness, has come out and endorsed Mitt Romney.

http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2012/1...-jobs-council/

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Carbon is not the problem, it makes up 0.041% of our atmosphere , 95% of that is from Volcanos and decomposing plants and stuff. So people in the US are responsible for 13% of the carbon in the atmosphere which 95% is not from Humans, like cars and trucks and stuff and they want to spend trillions to fix it while Solar Panel plants are powered by coal plants
think about that

Sly

I don't even know what we're talking about.

You said you "want" a president that flat out lies. I said you already have one. :-)

Lying is built into politicians. That's how they advance.

At this point, I think I can only judge based on whether or not I like the guy. Obama always seems sad. Bush was a total goofball, Kerry and Gore were both sad with sticks in their ass. Clinton was happy.

Happiness inspires confidence. Sadness does not.

That's all I got!

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MaDalton

ah..

actually i was being sarcastic because of Vendzillas latest conspiracy theory regarding Obamas earpiece - now that the birth certificate debate seems to be done.

and then referred to the topic of the thread - Romney keeps lying about Jeep moving to China even when it's denied by everyone else involved.

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Sly

Off-topic, and I'm only asking since I know you'll read this again. People in Czech Republic? More likely to know English or German?

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Just Alex

Well there goes another great arguments for vendzilla.

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PornoMonster

This does sound better, but either way the Money is GONE, if Loan is repaid the money will just go back to the Black hole of the Gov!

Both sides are Evil.

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junction

GM received $49.5 billion from taxpayers, and has returned about $24 billion of that through loan repayments and the sale of stock during its successful initial public offering in November 2010.

Chrysler Group received $10.5 billion in bailout funds, and returned all but about $1.3 billion through loan repayment and share repurchases.

MaDalton

lol - busted - but you have my ICQ too

Under 40 years english, over 40 years german.

and 75% just czech in general

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junction

How soon we forget.........

alex.missyouth

No sane person should vote this clown.

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crockett

lol you can't argue with them man.. Obama's a Muslim, he was born in Kenya, he wore a ear piece in the debate.. the moon landings were faked and Sept 11 was an attack by Jewish banker or lizard people which ever you prefer.

It's all pretty much the same mentality we are dealing with.

Robbie

My guess is that Obama would wear an earpiece in case of any kind of national emergency or threat taking place while onstage?

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Rochard

That's funny. The article title says "GM is heading for bankruptcy" yet the article really talks more about a fifty year trend of losing market share (to be expected in a global market where Korean cars are now made in the US) and compares the Malibu to Volkswagon.

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Vendzilla

Volkswagon makes more cars than GM

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Carbon is not the problem, it makes up 0.041% of our atmosphere , 95% of that is from Volcanos and decomposing plants and stuff. So people in the US are responsible for 13% of the carbon in the atmosphere which 95% is not from Humans, like cars and trucks and stuff and they want to spend trillions to fix it while Solar Panel plants are powered by coal plants
think about that

Vendzilla

None of that, I just don't like him

Can someone better with Adobe Illustrator tell me why when you download Obama's birth cert from whitehouse.gov and open it with AI, it has layers? I'm sure there is a reason, no one would be that stupid.

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Carbon is not the problem, it makes up 0.041% of our atmosphere , 95% of that is from Volcanos and decomposing plants and stuff. So people in the US are responsible for 13% of the carbon in the atmosphere which 95% is not from Humans, like cars and trucks and stuff and they want to spend trillions to fix it while Solar Panel plants are powered by coal plants
think about that

arock10

to drive the conspiracy nuts insane

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TampaToker

Nate Silver has Obama with a 80.9% chance of winning right now

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Rochard

You blasting GM for selling cars in Russia while giving a thumbs up to VW which operates in 153 countries. Your bashing GM for loosing market share while blasting them for trying to sell more cars in other countries?

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Rochard

So now the truth comes out. You are a birther.

LOL.

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Minte

That's absolutely correct. All that happens is that the vendors get screwed and end up with 30 cents on the dollar,,if lucky.

Minte

The american public has it as a coin flip.

Rochard

This is a huge part of the problem with Romney. He sees things from a business point of view. He sees only the big picture at GM, not the full picture with all of the companies that make money from GM. Romney doesn't want GM go out of business, he wants them to reduce their debt by seventy percent. But what Romney doesn't understand is that GM is only one piece of the puzzle. He doesn't understand that the company that supplies GM with the paint is due millions and millions of dollars and isn't going to be paid in the near future, who in turn will not be able to pay their bills or their employees - and when they do get paid they will only get paid 30% of what is due. That just means more people waiting in employment lines and more companies going under.

Romney claims he can fix the unemployment problem, but his solution here

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DTK

I get what you're saying. It simply didn't address the actual thing: that by all accounts, there's no factual basis for romney's claim.

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crockett

No the problem with Romney is he says what ever he thinks will sell at that moment and he has no actual "public" plan on anything. We aren't voting for a used car sales men we are voting for a president. We can all just assume what he will do but he hasn't given us anything but double talk.

No bank would give a loan on hopes & promises. I honestly can't even think of one position he has held firm on in which he hasn't said one thing and then another. He has no fucking spine. If anyone can show me one issue that is considered "important" by the general public that he hasn't flip flopped on I'd honestly be amazed.

Barefootsies

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Robbie

You do realize that if you took off your rose-colored Obama glasses for a second that you could replace "Romney" with "Obama" and your statement still holds 100% true.

It's simply strange that Dems claim the President has done GREAT in his first term...yet there are never any threads started about all of the great things he has done that proves he deserves another term.

Every thread seems to be another "attack" thread on Romney as a person.

Or as Obama himself said when he accepted the Dem nomination in 2008:

"If you don't have a record to run on, then you paint your opponent as someone people should run from. You make a big election about small things.
And you know what? It's worked before, because it feeds into the cynicism we all have about government. When Washington doesn't work, all its promises seem empty. If your hopes have been dashed again and again, then it's best to stop hoping and settle for what you already know. "


Yep, I'd say the Obama campaign is now doing EXACTLY what he criticized when the shoe was on the other foot.

I'd say that makes him a LIAR and a FLIP FLOPPER.

Or do those terms never apply to Pres. Obama?

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epitome

People are willfully ignoring his accomplishments or spinning them. If he gets something to 80% against the odds of 500+ people having to vote in favor of it when more than half of them hate him... people will call it a failure. When he does highlight his accomplishments people attack him with BS or assumptions.

crockett

No.. Obama & even McCain shared their tax proposals prior to the electron. Even a quick google hit finds a basic example..

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...060900950.html

Meanwhile Mitt Romney claims he will cut everyone's taxes while spending more yet gives no details about how he plans to do it. We are supposed to just "trust" a guy that can't keep his story straight from one week to another.

Anyway I guess you wen't able to name one thing that Romney didn't flip flop on either.. I guess you are just as stumped as I am to find anything he hasn't changed his opinion on.

Robbie

I think the real problem for Obama isn't that he didn't accomplish anything...it's that he spent the first two years focused on the health insurance bill while the economy was crumbling.

I believe if he had used all the time when he had both houses of Congress to go after the economy and get it rolling again...that he would have been a hero. And in 2010 the Dems wouldn't have paid the price at the polls and he could have THEN worked on the health care bill and did it right.

Imagine if he had done it that way instead of the ass-backwards way he went about it.

But that's just me armchair quarterbacking.

My guess is that looking back in hindsight, he wishes he had done it differently as well so he wouldn't be fighting for a second term.

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arock10

Here are some accomplishments. I just skimmed it, seemed legit
http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/mag...ents035755.php

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Robbie

There is no...and never was a detailed step by step plan by Obama or McCain. There never is. Only the president has the insider knowledge to lay out that kind of plan ahead of time.

I see nothing in your example that is more detailed than what Romney is proposing now. And unfortunately I see nothing that Obama is proposing now that is more detailed, even though he has been President for four years.

Let's see...he extended the Bush tax cuts every year because if he didn't he said it would "Hurt the economy". But now in the election year...he flip-flopped to make his Dem base happy and suddenly wants to "ask" the wealthy to "pay a little more".

What if when he "asks", I just say "no"?
Oh, that's right...he LYING because he isn't going to "ask", he's going to DEMAND.

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ClaudiaMarie.Com

DudeRick

The first three "accomplishments" are why there has been no job creation in the last 4 years and tanked the economy!

arock10

Going to be rather hard and unrealistic to cut the deficit just by reducing spending. I already posted a daily show clip where Romney claims to not want to cut anything substantial. AND he wants to drop rates by 20%.

I believe the main problem liberals have with Ronny's tax plan is the math makes no sense. Sure broaden the base, add jobs, etc even if this will make the math work it could be years. That's risking years of even higher deficits waiting for it to work.

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Rochard

Sounds like all politicians.

Lies. He has a public plan out now - and he wants to get rid of FEMA. Fucking brilliant.

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DudeRick

So you make decisions regarding the political and economic policy based on a show on Comedy Central?

arock10

The health care law isn't even in full effect yet, so unlikely it has done much other then allow children to stay on their parents insurance longer and people with préexisting conditions. Which Romney already has days he wants to keep.

If the bailout hadnt had happened well the entire financial system would have collapsed the the recession would've been far worse. Again I seriously doubt mitt Romney would've not bailed the banks out

Lastly increased regulation of Wall Street is something republicans of course would dislike, but hey after a near epic collapse something had to be done

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arock10

Yeah. Most honest show on tv. Shame comedians can only speak straight

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DTK

My usual disclaimer: I wouldn't vote for either of these guys on a bet.

Speaking just in terms of strategy, it seems like a major blunder for the Romney team to use the auto industry in any sort of advertising. He's the guy who wrote an op-ed titled "Let Detroit Go Bankrupt", and that point has been hammered home all summer. For better or worse, right or wrong, he's been defined as the guy who would have let the American auto industry die.

If I was advising him, I'd say "mitt (may i call you mitt?), talk about the auto industry as little as humanly possible. it's simply a toxic, losing issue for you. it's too late in the game to try and redefine yourself/score points on this one."

The absolute LAST thing i'd tell him "make an extremely misleading, untrue ad that can be debunked in a heartbeat."

As somebody else mentioned, this one really smacked of desperation.




ps. romney's whole 'managed bankruptcy' line was (and is) disingenuous at best. There was absolutely NO private money available at the time. Nobody was willing/able to invest the kind of money needed to keep Detroit going. The Big 3's CEOs and the Governor of MI at the time all said that. It was either the government bailing them out, or straight up liquidation.

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Robbie

And as I've pointed out before...IF Romney can expand the tax base by having govt. create a more job friendly atmosphere...then federal revenues will go up. They always do.

The "math" makes PERFECT sense as I pointed out earlier in another thread:
You have a paysite with 200 members paying $30 each. You make $6,000

But if you have 400 members paying $25 each you make $10,000 even though you reduced the "tax" rate (membership price)

People are only ignoring that fact for political reasons.

Romney wants to expand the oil industry...which will create lots of new high paying jobs and offshoot many more (people will have money to spend).
The U.S. has one of the highest Corp. taxes in the world. Change that and make it where companies WANT to build factories here instead of running away from us and jobs will follow as well.

The only "math" that doesn't add up to me is Obama's. He just wants to keep borrowing money and spending it. Right now the Federal Govt. is spending 10.6 BILLION dollars a day.
You could take ALL the money from the top 1% and it would only run the govt. for 29 days.

Can't tax our way out of this. We need to think long term. Get the companies to come back. The govt. just got to greedy over the years and drove business away. Let's get them back and keep them this time.

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DTK

Right around January 1 2009, you must have fallen and hit your head really hard, because you clearly can't remember anything that happened before that date.

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Robbie

He NEVER wrote that title. The headline title was written by the newspaper editor. His actual article was a thoughtful well detailed laying out of what Obama actually did... a managed bankruptcy.

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ClaudiaMarie.Com

Robbie

Absolutely wrong.

In the article he wrote..Romney said that the feds would have to be involved with money.

Nobody goes bankrupt and "liquidates". That is called "going out of business" not a bankruptcy.
Romney specifically said the govt. would have to be involved. He and Obama argued that in the debate and the "fact checkers" said that Romney indeed said it because it's IN the article.

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Sly

The argument of raising taxes is really never-ending. So we can say that a long-term plan is not fast enough, but really, it will be much faster than arguing over taxes year after year after year after year.

It would really be nice if we could all stop being pessimistic by focusing on taxes, and instead, be optimistic and focus on creating jobs. We need to get back to building things that we need, things that we want, and just crazy cool shit.

We need to inspire. We need to believe. And not just talk about believing, we need something to really believe in. Something to look at and say "hell yeah, let's do that."

Let's put man on the moon again, so to speak.

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DTK

Robbie, please re-read my post. I was talking about strategy and perception.

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Robbie

Honestly, I can't think of any time in my lifetime that I've seen so many people FOR raising taxes and so pro-govt.

It's kinda weird to me why people would want to give their money to a bunch of career politicians to spend at the rate of 10.6 billion dollars per day. It's outrageous.

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Robbie

I see that...I just didn't know if you were aware that Romney never said "Let Detroit Go Bankrupt"

Obama's campaign has done a fantastic job of painting a false picture of the guy.

Seems to me they could have just beaten him straight up on social issues IF Obama had bothered to focus on the economy the first two years.

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Sly

It's easy when it's not their money.

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Robbie

Yeah, you're right about that.

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DTK

That's called a chapter 7 bankruptcy, and yes, it happens all the time.

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Robbie

Let me rephrase that...GM and the Detroit automakers were never going to "liquidate".

Romney said he the feds would be involved in his article and straight up said he would have never allowed that during the debate.

And I don't know about "happens all the time". Most times when a company declares bankruptcy it is to restructure and get rid of debt so they don't have to liquidate and shut down.

EDIT: Hang on! Why did you bring up Chapter 7 bankruptcy??? That is for personal bankruptcy. Chapter 11 is for businesses. You're not talking about the correct thing.

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