I'm buying a bigger car because I spent the last 10 years working 60 hours a week, pouring every penny into investments and projects, while neglecting living a decent life. No vacations. Few friends. Few luxuries. Little "fun", as others put it? (Although the joke is on them, because I love it.)

Damn straight Paul. I'm buying me a nice car. Going on a nice vacation. Eating great food. And hey, I'll probably take a friend along with me. And yes, I'll fight paying more taxes to an inefficient, wasteful government every chance I get.

It's a pity that you don't have enough money left and need to depend on your government. During your successful years, you should have saved or invested better. Depending on everyone else to take care of you when you grew old was a selfish, shameful, and pathetic move. You should have respected your daughter's generation better. Now she will grow up, bust her hump, and have little to show for it because she will need to drop dollar after dollar into taxes to pay for the older folks, like yourself, that were too selfish to prepare for their later lives.

You will go shopping. The Government will employ people so they can go shopping.

The Government doesn't make the money disappear, I'll bet money some of your members are are employed directly or indirectly by the Government.

Or didn't you think of that?

Sly such a twisted post doesn't warrant a reply.

So because of fear of people losing jobs we should borrow more money so more people can get work?

No you should be paying more taxes. Stop voting for people promising tax cuts, that will mean your children picking up the debt on. Go calculate the unemployment rate by cutting the debt. It might give you an idea of how your theory will work.

Debt $16 trillion.
Reduce debt by $1,6 trillion a year over a 10 year period.

How many jobs will have to go to save $1.6 trillion a year?

And you deserve it.

But let's say you were doing this and it all went pear shaped because the Bankers, fucked your investments. Should you be thrown on the scrap heap.

You mean pay it to make sure more aren't thrown on the scrap heap. The Government doesn't keep your money, it shares it around and some of it ends back in your pockets. Unless you never sold anything to anyone who had no connection directly or indirectly with the Government purse. Which is pretty remote.

Nice delusion. Truth is I did save, I invested in very long term pensions which in 2008 when I saw this start, I cashed in and saved what I could at the height. Still get money from them and I actually pay taxes on my pensions. This year I got a tax rebate. :thumbsup

I'm not lumbering my daughters generation with massive debts. We pay the right taxes here. The reason for the huge debts is laid firmly at the feet of GW Bush. He cut taxes and spent like crazy. On wars. Deregulated the banks and then they crashed.

The reasons for the debt is plain. Politicians buying your votes with a promise of lower taxes. AND not stopping the spending. Bush started it, Obama is carrying it on and Romney is going to do nothing to change. you're being bribed with money your children will be repaying.

best post I have seen on this forum in years

How much should I be paying? 10-20-30-40-50-60% ?

Remember I pay taxes on everything I buy, $5000 Luxury tax on my car, 8% sales tax, property tax ..

If you tax me too much off the top, then I won't be paying as much on the other taxes.

As the country live in and the Government you voted for. Enough to make it necessary to get the country back on an even keel.

Sacking people to repay the debt, isn't an option.

The problem with these debates is one side keeps saying "It's not my fault, so I don't need to pay." Truth is you if you don'y want your kids to pay.

How do you determine what is "ENOUGH"

Real world time. :thumbsup

The US is $16.25 in debt and rising. As Minte says it has to stop. He's spot on. We disagree over how it stops. Yet stop it must.

http://paulmarkham.com/temp/debtclock.jpg

$51,565 per citizen or $141,556 per tax payer.

This is because of GWB, Wars, Bank Crisis, Obama not raising taxes and the US living beyond it's income. The Tax revenue for 2012 is estimated at $10 trillion, 2012 is estimated at $11 trillion because of rising employment.

To cut it by cutting spending will be hard, but it's going to have to be part of the mix. Let's look at it.

$16.25 / 10 years = $1.65 a year. US GDP is $15.09 trillion a year. Cut the money spent in the US by 11%. Yes that's what cutting means. It will lead to devastating losses in the online porn industry, retail, luxury goods, house prices, in fact everything. And here's reality.

Let's just say for arguments sake. Every job cut costs the Government $16,500 a year. Do the maths to see how many jobs the US would need to lose. And yes, the goods being bought those employed people are using, are other peoples jobs. Sack an office worker, you buy less office equipment, less fuel for the heating or air conditioning. Sack a fireman, less uniforms, fire engines to buy.

Then all those people without a job are no longer spending money in shops, so they have to fire someone.

AND, yes it's a big and. These people now unemployed are going to want Social Security, Medicare, food stamp and people to administer the system of giving them the money. In extreme cases Child Welfare.

All because those with jobs, don't want to pay more taxes. AND, they will have to because those unemployed are now no longer paying taxes. Probably the US will need to borrow some more to fill the gap, unless you pay 50% more taxes.

I didn't bother to check the maths, because only a few top economists will know for certain. So unless you have the real figure. It's the example of what will happen if they try to cut their way to reduce the debt.

There was a case today on the News about UK Government waste. It wasn't but the papers made it look like it. A politician had his pet snake stuffed and put up in his office as a trophy. Waste or bad spending?

Well a UK taxidermist is now $16,000 richer and spending the money to keep his family fed. In honesty its selfish and bad spending. but like most Government spending goes from one pocket to another. Money circulates, it never stops.

So income tax rises by, careful cuts on overseas spending, careful Government spending on imported goods, sales tax, tax on imported goods. Yes Killer, you will have to tighten your belt. OR LET YOUR CHILDREN TIGHTEN THEIRS.

Now don't reply with bitching it solves nothing. How will you stop dumping the debt for your affluent life style on your descendants? Because the $16 trillion went into the US economy and made a lot of people better off.

It won't matter a damn who is responsible or who think is to blame for the debt. The fact is you will have to repay it. Dad run up his credit card, and the children, grandchildren and great grand children will have to pay off the debt.

With $2 billion being spent to buy the Presidency, you can bet money. The contributors won't be paying. And they're 1% of the 1%. Probably less than that.