Romney's China Position - Page 3 - GoFuckYourself.com

Paul Markham · 10-18-2012, 11:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PornoMonster

Why did Obama Seal his Birth and other records???

Oh and take so long to release them. BLAH

2 Way Street!

Agreed. These things should be open to voters. Let people know about the man they are voting for.

http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/bookm...rthcertificate

http://www.wnd.com/2012/08/why-did-o...s-transcripts/

Looking at this you see how keeping anything secret lets the opposition make up there own stories.

https://www.google.com/webhp?hl=en#q...w=1280&bih=811

Vendzilla · 10-30-2012, 06:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

baddog's answer fits that one too..He was a U.S. citizen. He was a U.S. senator for God's sake!

It wasn't anybodies business for him to show them his birth certificate.

And you're right. It's a two-way street. And right wing crazies made assholes out of themselves on that issue and cost the Conservative movement a lot of credibility.

Just like the left wing crazies have hurt the Liberal movement with all the crazy shit they have said and obsessed on in the election.

Both sides should be ashamed.

Robbie, I don't give a lot of thought towards the Presidents Birth Cert or his college creds.
Once they become president, it doesn't matter.
But I did download the birth cert from whitehouse.gov and loaded it with Adobe Illustrator. Why does it have layers? Trump offered 5Million for his college creds, I think the right thing to do is take Donalds money

Vendzilla · 10-30-2012, 06:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minte

No doubt that is some of the problem. It started years ago, when bleeding hearts started to label children. How many kids today are on some sort of medication for some *condition*.

I think the biggest problem is that the pressure on parents today to create that perfect human in their likeness is unreasonable. If your child doesn't turn out to be a lawyer or a doctor or at least pulling down a 6 figure income,it's because the parent was lousy or the child has OCD or some other condition of the month. Then it was only natural to *treat* the child with some drug.

At the end of the day, everyone can't be the chief. There has to be some indians too.

I would have never allowed my daughter to be on any meds unless there was a damn good reason, The human body can take care of itself pretty good. The war on drugs kinda went the other way, but my daughter is going to be a doctor!!

Vendzilla · 10-30-2012, 06:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Relentless

By the way Minte,

I am of the opinion that in the course of a long weekend you and I could easily hammer out a platform that appeased right and left wing interests while setting a clear and positive course for the entire country. The solutions to many of the problems we agree exist are identical, regardless of which POV you take as to how they came about. I'm confident both parties know this as well. The reason they don't do it is that they are paid to fail rather than to succeed by a never ending number of lobbyists.

Sad, but true.

People not controlled by a parties interest could do it, problem is our elected officials want to get reelected. That's one of the reasons there are no more moderates on either side.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Relentless

It's great for opposition viewpoints once you sift out the idiots. I talk about politics with friends, family and a very occasional customer or two because I am very interested in how the system works and how it can be improved. Unfortunately most of the people I associate with have similar points of view to my own. Discussing things with people who start out mostly in agreement is a terrible way to learn anything. Discussing things here with Robbie, Minte, and many others does an excellent job of making me rethink my own positions, in the end my position is either stronger and better refined or abandoned in favor of a better one.

I'll never understand why people think disagreeing about philosophical matters like politics, morality and religion is a bad thing. It's the best way to learn and having different views about the right way to fix Medicare doesn't make anyone an evil person, so long as the disagreement is constructive. Sad that small minded people prevent others from being willing to voice their views. It's the main reason we don't have a national dialogue leading to real solutions.

Debating politics keeps me from melting doing work, I look stuff up and learn. Like I wouldn't have thought Martin Luther King Jr was a republican?

Quote:

Originally Posted by PornoMonster

Exactly, not like Obama isn't taking advantage of EVERY tax loophole he can.
Obama says he should pay more, but he wont until the tax code will Make him.

Again it is NOT a TAX Problem, it is a Spending problem.

the budget deficit for 2012 is 1.2 trillion?

Quote:

Originally Posted by PornoMonster

Why did Obama Seal his Birth and other records???

Oh and take so long to release them. BLAH

2 Way Street!

All Presidents have been doing that, Obama's first executive order changed that

Rochard · 10-30-2012, 07:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minte

Are you so sure about that. This is just a few of the businesses that Bain has funded.

The other day Romney said that 8% of the companies that got a large amount of stimulus money went bankrupt.

What Romney failed to mention is that 22% of the companies Bain Capital was involved with went under. He's got a twenty-two percent failure rate. How many companies went under and no longer exist, and how many people lost their jobs?

Combine that with the fact that he left office with a 37% approval rating.

Minte · 10-30-2012, 07:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rochard

The other day Romney said that 8% of the companies that got a large amount of stimulus money went bankrupt.

What Romney failed to mention is that 22% of the companies Bain Capital was involved with went under. He's got a twenty-two percent failure rate. How many companies went under and no longer exist, and how many people lost their jobs?

Combine that with the fact that he left office with a 37% approval rating.

What you are failing to mention is that Bain invests private funds from individuals that are making an investment to hopefully profit from. Where as the federal government is using public money that they have to borrow.

Paul Markham · 10-30-2012, 07:56 AM

Quote:

Again it is NOT a TAX Problem, it is a Spending problem.

Cut the spending and lose millions of jobs. It's that simple.

Or should they cut the spending, lose the jobs and wait for the private sector to stop exporting jobs?

Government spending in all countries goes 95% into their own economy to employ people. Curt the spending and lose the jobs. Lose the jobs, lose sign ups. Yes it will hit you. How many blame the unemployment or the economy for their income?

How many are seeing less sign ups from Greece, Eire, UK, Italy, Spain, Portugal, etc. Because people lost their jobs?

I asked a very important question a couple of days ago. It came down to why do Americans pay more for Health Care than anywhere else and get a crappy system. The answer is simple. US Government is in the pockets of corporations. So if anyone dreams for one moment the cuts in spending are going to harm them. Dream on.

Rochard · 10-30-2012, 08:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minte

What you are failing to mention is that Bain invests private funds from individuals that are making an investment to hopefully profit from. Where as the federal government is using public money that they have to borrow.

So you are perfectly okay with our government's success rate going from 8% to 22% while the President's approval rating drops to an all time low of 37%, because that's what your voting for.

For reasons that boggle my mind people think Romney and Bain Capital is a success story. It isn't. Are you going to invest your life savings into a company that has a one in four chance of loosing it? Do you want our government investing into businesses that have a one in four chance of being here next year?

Are you honestly going to vote for a man who left office with a 37% approval rating?

Paul Markham · 10-30-2012, 08:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minte

What you are failing to mention is that Bain invests private funds from individuals that are making an investment to hopefully profit from. Where as the federal government is using public money that they have to borrow.

Didn't they get Government funds?

Do you have a workable solution?

Because if the US Government stopped borrowing it would mean a million or more out of a job. It you're 100% export, you're fine. Except the food you eat will go up in price, oil as well. Plus a whole host of other things.

There's this insane idea that if they do away with Government spending and everything is cushy again.

Minte · 10-30-2012, 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

Didn't they get Government funds?

Do you have a workable solution?

Because if the US Government stopped borrowing it would mean a million or more out of a job. It you're 100% export, you're fine. Except the food you eat will go up in price, oil as well. Plus a whole host of other things.

There's this insane idea that if they do away with Government spending and everything is cushy again.

The workable solution is the same for every person, business and government on earth.

It is called living within your means. There is nothing wrong with government spending. There are plenty of things the government should spend money on. No one that I have seen here is arguing that.

Minte · 10-30-2012, 09:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rochard

So you are perfectly okay with our government's success rate going from 8% to 22% while the President's approval rating drops to an all time low of 37%, because that's what your voting for.

For reasons that boggle my mind people think Romney and Bain Capital is a success story. It isn't. Are you going to invest your life savings into a company that has a one in four chance of loosing it? Do you want our government investing into businesses that have a one in four chance of being here next year?

Are you honestly going to vote for a man who left office with a 37% approval rating?

yes,yes it is,no,no,yes

anymore questions?

Paul Markham · 10-30-2012, 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minte

The workable solution is the same for every person, business and government on earth.

It is called living within your means. There is nothing wrong with government spending. There are plenty of things the government should spend money on. No one that I have seen here is arguing that.

We agree. So the US population should all cut back on their standard of living. OK we are getting somewhere.

1. Do the employed take a massive pay cut to get more people employed.

2. Do the employed pay more in taxes to look after the millions that are now out of work and the future million?

3. Do we say fuck those and leave them to fend for themselves?

The mess we are in now isn't all the fault the over spending of Governments. It's root cause is the Wall Street and City of London banks gambling and getting rich quick schemes. With the lack of and inadequate regulations and over seeing, they gambled us into this mess.

Remember this board 2007 when all the pimps were telling us of their big share dealings ad now it's Gold or Silver. Great if they do it with their money. WS and CoL banks did it with ours and money that simply didn't exist. Do you know what they really buy and sell on the Bond markets?

The US is still running on an inflated economy without slowing it, the EU has started to put the brakes on. See the riots in in Greece for a taste.

Answer this question for us. Where should the cuts be?

Rochard · 10-30-2012, 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minte

yes,yes it is,no,no,yes

anymore questions?

Well that says it all. Your perfectly fine with our failure rate going from 8% to 22%. Outstanding.

Minte · 10-30-2012, 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rochard

Well that says it all. Your perfectly fine with our failure rate going from 8% to 22%. Outstanding.

You and Mr.Markham should retire to his forum. If you have a point to make, simply make it without all the spin and walls of text.

And personally, I don't think at all about your failure rate. I am concentrating on my success rate. As everyone should be doing.

Paul Markham · 10-30-2012, 10:07 AM

If I did my research right here's the problem.

The US raises $2.45 trillion a year in taxes. 15.7% GDP.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_...federal_budget

Government spends 25.36% of GDP
http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/wp-cont...utlays-GDP.png

So Daddy's spending more on his family than he's earning. Now does he go home and say to the family "We have to start living like poorer people." Or does he keep borrowing?

What ever he chooses will be devastating for the family. The proof of the devastation is to be soon on the news programmes. Not NY this week. Even though is FEMA a great place to cut spending or split it between States?

The only sensible way out of the mess is a multi level approach.

More taxes, less loop holes.
More long term investment in the future.
Shaving back food/oil subsidies.
Tax imported finished goods.
Sales tax.

Don't forget the Government is voted in by the people, so the people must take the blame. They kept telling you "No more taxes" and didn't stop the spending. And still the voters vote them in.

baddog · 10-30-2012, 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minte

What you are failing to mention is that Bain invests private funds from individuals that are making an investment to hopefully profit from. Where as the federal government is using public money that they have to borrow.

Aren't they usually at risk companies as well?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

Cut the spending and lose millions of jobs. It's that simple.

Not really

Minte · 10-30-2012, 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baddog

Aren't they usually at risk companies as well?

Not really

Highrisk = High Gains.

That's why there are nickel slots for the masses.

Paul Markham · 10-30-2012, 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baddog

Not really

Can you explain this please. Not to me, to all the governments cutting spending and suffering from higher unemployment. You're wasted here, you could be solving everyone's problems.

And this is what brainwashing does to people. They still buy the myth that cutting spending means the private sector picks up the jobs lost.

Paul Markham · 10-30-2012, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

WAnswer this question for us. Where should the cuts be?

For those who missed the question.

Minte · 10-31-2012, 06:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

For those who missed the question.

Ok Paul, I have about 15 minutes before a meeting so I will play.
However, BOOKMARK THIS POST SO, BECAUSE I WON't do it again.

The order of the list is not suggesting how I rate these cuts in importance.

#1 - Foreign aid - We give away far too much money to other countries. Why would that be our responsibility. If it's for places that have faced drought or natural disastors that should be a one time gift. Not an annual paycheck.

#2 - Close most of the military bases around the world. We have planes and ships to move troops,weapons and supplies.

#3 - Farm subsidies - I live in an agricultural area, and the farmers just laugh at the money they receive NOT to grow crops.

#4 - TSA - What a joke. Pay an army to stripseach 80 year old women who are flying from Iowa to Georgia to visit their grandchildren.

How am I doing so far?

#5 - Food stamps - The lack of oversight in that welfare program is beyond ridiculous. The black market in foodstamps keeps a lot of drug users...drug users.

#6 - Government studies. - I really don't think we need to know 95% of the bullshit that the government gives grants to study.

#7 - Government regulatory agencies. The list of agencies that watch business is totally out of control.

#8 - US postal system. Close it down and let UPS and FEDEX take it over. They will do it,and make money doing it.

Time for my meeting.

Relentless · 10-31-2012, 07:08 AM

In reality you'd be able to cut much more and do better by cutting most things 10-15% than by cutting some things 100%...

The one thing I'd cut immediately 100% is the drug war. Putting people in prison for years and costing a ton of money because they sold pot is crazy, especially when we could tax legal sales instead...

Paul Markham · 10-31-2012, 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minte

Ok Paul, I have about 15 minutes before a meeting so I will play.
However, BOOKMARK THIS POST SO, BECAUSE I WON't do it again.

The order of the list is not suggesting how I rate these cuts in importance.

#1 - Foreign aid - We give away far too much money to other countries. Why would that be our responsibility. If it's for places that have faced drought or natural disasters that should be a one time gift. Not an annual paycheck.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_...gn_aid#Amounts $52.7 billion Some of this money goes to people working in the US. Even those working in offices. How much of it comes in US goods or goes back into US banks is to be guessed. How many jobs will be lost?

Quote:

#2 - Close most of the military bases around the world. We have planes and ships to move troops,weapons and supplies.

And let China fill the gap.

How many jobs will be lost?

Quote:

#3 - Farm subsidies - I live in an agricultural area, and the farmers just laugh at the money they receive NOT to grow crops.

Yes and do what with the money?

#4 - TSA - What a joke. Pay an army to stripseach 80 year old women who are flying from Iowa to Georgia to visit their grandchildren.

How am I doing so far?

Quote:

#5 - Food stamps - The lack of oversight in that welfare program is beyond ridiculous. The black market in foodstamps keeps a lot of drug users...drug users.

So increase the over sight. Or would you let the needy starve?

Quote:

#6 - Government studies. - I really don't think we need to know 95% of the bullshit that the government gives grants to study.

So if you don't understand what it's for, cut it. How many jobs will be lost?

Quote:

#7 - Government regulatory agencies. The list of agencies that watch business is totally out of control.

Like those watching the banks and oil drilling. How many jobs will it cost? You have to be specific in cutting. How many jobs will be lost?

Quote:

#8 - US postal system. Close it down and let UPS and FEDEX take it over. They will do it,and make money doing it.

Will it be more expensive and how many jobs are lost?

Quote:

Time for my meeting.

How many jobs will be lost?

What Minte has done is looked at the problem with a lot of bias and little thought. Cutting out expensive useless and wars that made the balance of power in the Middle East worse, would be a great idea. It would cost jobs in factories producing the arms though and Haliburton wouldn't like it.

And there's the truth. A lot of the money spent fighting Bush's illegal wars went to private enterprise. Minte owns a factory that gets some US Government contracts. What if the US Government decided to cut the spending or if the overseas aid helps a country to build a plant using his products?

Cutting farmers subsidies is good, especially if they're paid not to grow food. They should be paid to grow food that can be turned into fuel.

His attitude is clearer in the cut Food Stamps part.

Quote:

?Over 98 percent of those receiving SNAP benefits are eligible, and the FY 2010 payment accuracy rate was over 96 percent--a historic high,? the USDA official said. ?In fact, the payment error rate is less than half what it was 10 years ago, which has resulted in a reduction of $3.3 billion in improper payments in 2010.?

So because 2% are defrauding the system. Let the 98% go hungry.

Still cuts have to be made, taxes have to be raised and the Governments have to invest in the future.

Robbie · 10-31-2012, 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minte

And personally, I don't think at all about your failure rate. I am concentrating on my success rate. As everyone should be doing.

And THERE is the answer! All of you people on here crying for the govt. to wipe your ass for you and worrying about how much money other people are making...start thinking about your own life and what you are doing.

Paul Markham · 10-31-2012, 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Relentless

In reality you'd be able to cut much more and do better by cutting most things 10-15% than by cutting some things 100%...

The one thing I'd cut immediately 100% is the drug war. Putting people in prison for years and costing a ton of money because they sold pot is crazy, especially when we could tax legal sales instead...

Getting soft drugs out of the hands of criminals by legalising it, would save a lot of money and create tax revenues. Like prostitution, legalise and regulate it. The regulation to be paid for by the legal brothels.

In fact a lot of the regulation should be funded by the industries and with them having zero influence or control. Why should the tax payer pay for regulating industries to make sure they do the right thing?

Still back in the real world. It's never going to happen.

Robbie · 10-31-2012, 09:46 AM

Minte you're wasting your time answering that question to Paul. I already did that and instead of accepting my answer on what I would do...he did exactly what he did to you just now.

He goes off on your answer with more questions all spawned from his fantasy world of "theories" about how things work.

It's just a never ending waste of time.

When it comes to politics...Paul appears to be one of those "doom and gloom" people who feel that it's all up to govt. to take care of us. We are simply helpless children.

flashfire · 10-31-2012, 09:58 AM

Trump goes on Letterman and rips Obama for China then Dave pulls out all Trumps shitty products made there lol

BlackCrayon · 10-31-2012, 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

And THERE is the answer! All of you people on here crying for the govt. to wipe your ass for you and worrying about how much money other people are making...start thinking about your own life and what you are doing.

yet you and minte and all the other romney cheerleaders are saying obama hasn't done enough, so perhaps its people like yourself that expect too much from government. perhaps you should stop focusing on the governments failure rate and worry about your own success rate..

Robbie · 10-31-2012, 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flashfire

Trump goes on Letterman and rips Obama for China then Dave pulls out all Trumps shitty products made there lol

That was pretty funny.

But the flip side of it is this: If Trump had the ties made in the U.S. they would be so expensive nobody would buy them.

I think we should be looking at all the reasons that companies go to places like China to make products. Yeah, I know we can't compete with their labor costs. But we could do other things to make business more attractive here in the U.S.
Lower taxes for one. Fed, state, and local govt. making it easier and less expensive for business to operate is another one.

Instead of being angry at companies for leaving the U.S., let's create an environment where they won't want or need to leave here. Make it so that the U.S. is the BEST place to manufacture and that is where the jobs will go.

I saw that happen with my own two eyes in the 1990's when South Carolina brought BMW to the upstate of South Carolina. They did it by giving them tons of concessions on taxes and fees. The economy roared back to life when that plant went into production making BMW Z3 sports cars. People got good high paying jobs and it trickled down over the entire Greenville/Spartanburg area.

That is how you get companies to manufacture locally instead of going to China. You make it more attractive for them financially.

Minte · 10-31-2012, 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

Minte you're wasting your time answering that question to Paul. I already did that and instead of accepting my answer on what I would do...he did exactly what he did to you just now.

He goes off on your answer with more questions all spawned from his fantasy world of "theories" about how things work.

It's just a never ending waste of time.

When it comes to politics...Paul appears to be one of those "doom and gloom" people who feel that it's all up to govt. to take care of us. We are simply helpless children.

Maybe this is the answer Paul wants to hear.

We go to every city in the US.. We identify all the needy and drain on society people. We line then up in a long row, then shoot every third one and tell the other 66% still standing we will be back for another pass in 6 months. It's to their benefit not to be back in this line.

Robbie · 10-31-2012, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackCrayon

yet you and minte and all the other romney cheerleaders

I'm not a Romney cheerleader.

I am an EX-Obama voter (2008) who is pissed at what he hasn't done.

I'm finished voting for Republicans too. Their social agenda is way too restrictive of my personal freedom.

And both parties are warmongers.

I'm voting for Gary Johnson and the Libertarian Party. Matter of fact, I'm going down today to vote early.

If anything...in the contest between Obama and Romney...I'm a ANTI-Obama-Cheerleader.
Obama is the President. I'm not going to judge Romney because he is NOT the president and hasn't disappointed me...yet.

I do believe that Romney will turn the economy around much faster than lame ass Obama can. But neither of these clowns is getting my vote.

Minte · 10-31-2012, 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackCrayon

yet you and minte and all the other romney cheerleaders are saying obama hasn't done enough, so perhaps its people like yourself that expect too much from government. perhaps you should stop focusing on the governments failure rate and worry about your own success rate..

The government should stop threatening to take *a little more* from people that do work hard and have become successful.

Robbie · 10-31-2012, 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minte

Maybe this is the answer Paul wants to hear.

We go to every city in the US.. We identify all the needy and drain on society people. We line then up in a long row, then shoot every third one and tell the other 66% still standing we will be back for another pass in 6 months. It's to their benefit not to be back in this line.

Unfortunately...there is NO answer for Paul.
He has no real position and no answers himself.

He's just trolling and trying to piss people off.

Rochard · 10-31-2012, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

But the flip side of it is this: If Trump had the ties made in the U.S. they would be so expensive nobody would buy them.

That's not true at all. They make ties in the US and they aren't expensive at all. Hats too.

What you mean to say is "It increases Trump's profit margin if he has them made in China and them shipped to the us".

Minte · 10-31-2012, 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rochard

That's not true at all. They make ties in the US and they aren't expensive at all. Hats too.

What you mean to say is "It increases Trump's profit margin if he has them made in China and them shipped to the us".

It increases the profits is the operative phrase. The people that own the stocks only invest their money into companies that make a profit. There is a reason, the market is at 13,000 and unions don't have much to do with that.

Paul Markham · 10-31-2012, 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

Minte you're wasting your time answering that question to Paul. I already did that and instead of accepting my answer on what I would do...he did exactly what he did to you just now.

He goes off on your answer with more questions all spawned from his fantasy world of "theories" about how things work.

It's just a never ending waste of time.

When it comes to politics...Paul appears to be one of those "doom and gloom" people who feel that it's all up to govt. to take care of us. We are simply helpless children.

= I can't find an answer so will just flame.

You can try looking after yourself and good luck with your attempts. Got an island sorted out to go live on?

The truth is very different. we all rely on the Government in one way or another and way they get it wrong, we suffer. They got it wrong with regulating the banks and fucked the World's financial system. They fucked regulating the oil drilling in the Gulf and fucked the people living down there.

I don't expect the Government to look after me totally. I expect them to build a structure I can look after myself in. We rely on that structure a lot more than you think. Because apart from the actual money that goes overseas and never comes back. All Minte's cuts mean lost US jobs. This will mean more people needing the Government to look after them unless you want them to starve. It will mean less money being spent in the shops and more jobs lost there. Those who are losing jobs might be some of your members. So you will get a pay cut as well.

No Government goes $16 trillion into debt without making the people of that country believe they are far better off than they really are. Cutting that debt by cutting jobs will lead to ruin. Ask Greece.

The only answer is better spending and more taxes. Yes, go back to the tax levels of Clinton and repay the debt without massive job losses. Anyone who believes cutting taxes leads to more jobs, is kidding himself. If it were true the US would have a glut of jobs. It used to work like that in days before Disco Music.

Your answer was cut the military to the bone. China would love that. Or do you kid yourself they wouldn't fill the vacuum? Cut it back yes, make it more cost efficient, yes. It will cost jobs. Put the money into teaching and investing in the long term. Like a subsidy for US manufactured solar panels. So less reliance on carbon fuels for power.

Sales tax like VAT, so the end domestic user pays the tax. Would work great on Gas.

This is the future. http://www.teslamotors.com And where Governments need to be concentrating. http://www.thedailygreen.com/living-...funding-460609

Paul Markham · 10-31-2012, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

But the flip side of it is this: If Trump had the ties made in the U.S. they would be so expensive nobody would buy them.

No one wore ties before they were made in China.

You really do need to think before posting.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minte

The government should stop threatening to take *a little more* from people that do work hard and have become successful.

And here we have it. Why should anyone who earns more pay more for the structure that allowed him to become successful. And yes it did. Because if you didn't have the structure of the country around you, you would be tilling the soil. So long as you didn't need to take them to the market to sell them.

And there's the flip side. No one who has worked hard, been successful and lost his job because they decided making ties in China were cheaper, expect to get looked after.

Quote:

It increases the profits is the operative phrase. The people that own the stocks only invest their money into companies that make a profit. There is a reason, the market is at 13,000 and unions don't have much to do with that.

Ad the people profiting by throwing other Americans out of a job, should be expected to pay to look after them. Or is it all down to

and greed?

I say tax those imported goods, when they hit the docks, and let those taxes support the people thrown out of a job. Shit the Wall Street Bankers won't like that one little bit. Like we should care about them.

Quote:

Unfortunately...there is NO answer for Paul.
He has no real position and no answers himself.

He's just trolling and trying to piss people off.

Do these answers on my position piss you off?

Robbie · 10-31-2012, 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

No one wore ties before they were made in China.

You really do need to think before posting.

You are so goddamn dumb Paul.

I lived in the upstate of South Carolina from 1992 to 2008. Watched all the textile mills there shut down and move to China. Basically the majority of the fabrics industry in the U.S. moved to China.

How about YOU think before you post. You act like a fool when you keep posting about shit you don't know.

Robbie · 10-31-2012, 11:28 AM

Please Paul...can't you PLEASE stay in your section: https://gfy.com/forumdisplay.php?f=54

Don't you have your hands full arguing with other idiots over there already?

Minte · 10-31-2012, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

= I can't find an answer so will just flame.

You can try looking after yourself and good luck with your attempts. Got an island sorted out to go live on?

The truth is very different. we all rely on the Government in one way or another and way they get it wrong, we suffer. They got it wrong with regulating the banks and fucked the World's financial system. They fucked regulating the oil drilling in the Gulf and fucked the people living down there.

I don't expect the Government to look after me totally. I expect them to build a structure I can look after myself in. We rely on that structure a lot more than you think. Because apart from the actual money that goes overseas and never comes back. All Minte's cuts mean lost US jobs. This will mean more people needing the Government to look after them unless you want them to starve. It will mean less money being spent in the shops and more jobs lost there. Those who are losing jobs might be some of your members. So you will get a pay cut as well.

No Government goes $16 trillion into debt without making the people of that country believe they are far better off than they really are. Cutting that debt by cutting jobs will lead to ruin. Ask Greece.

The only answer is better spending and more taxes. Yes, go back to the tax levels of Clinton and repay the debt without massive job losses. Anyone who believes cutting taxes leads to more jobs, is kidding himself. If it were true the US would have a glut of jobs. It used to work like that in days before Disco Music.

Your answer was cut the military to the bone. China would love that. Or do you kid yourself they wouldn't fill the vacuum? Cut it back yes, make it more cost efficient, yes. It will cost jobs. Put the money into teaching and investing in the long term. Like a subsidy for US manufactured solar panels. So less reliance on carbon fuels for power.

Sales tax like VAT, so the end domestic user pays the tax. Would work great on Gas.

This is the future. http://www.teslamotors.com And where Governments need to be concentrating. http://www.thedailygreen.com/living-...funding-460609

The country already has lost millions of jobs. In a few more years the huge incentive that China offers in savings will have vanished. Chinese aren't working for a bowl of rice and an attaboy anymore. It's estimated that by 2016 the pay in China will equal the minimum wage in the US. China has built an economy on the backs of US workers. As China evolves from a producer nation to a consumer nation they will use more of their own production capacity to satisfy their own needs.

Jobs are already coming back from China. We are making parts again in our factory that we lost to China a decade ago. And it won't stop. What manufacturers here have learned is effieciency. From design to manufacturing through shipping. We don't leave much to chance.
We sell things to China. A few years I bought more than I sell there. Today it's just the opposite.

Bottom line. Government does not produce jobs. Private industry does. And if private industry is not regulated and taxed to death we know how to do it well. Just hope the government stays the hell out of the way.

Rochard · 10-31-2012, 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minte

Ok Paul, I have about 15 minutes before a meeting so I will play.
However, BOOKMARK THIS POST SO, BECAUSE I WON't do it again.

The order of the list is not suggesting how I rate these cuts in importance.

#1 - Foreign aid - We give away far too much money to other countries. Why would that be our responsibility. If it's for places that have faced drought or natural disastors that should be a one time gift. Not an annual paycheck.

#2 - Close most of the military bases around the world. We have planes and ships to move troops,weapons and supplies.

#3 - Farm subsidies - I live in an agricultural area, and the farmers just laugh at the money they receive NOT to grow crops.

#4 - TSA - What a joke. Pay an army to stripseach 80 year old women who are flying from Iowa to Georgia to visit their grandchildren.

How am I doing so far?

#5 - Food stamps - The lack of oversight in that welfare program is beyond ridiculous. The black market in foodstamps keeps a lot of drug users...drug users.

#6 - Government studies. - I really don't think we need to know 95% of the bullshit that the government gives grants to study.

#7 - Government regulatory agencies. The list of agencies that watch business is totally out of control.

#8 - US postal system. Close it down and let UPS and FEDEX take it over. They will do it,and make money doing it.

Time for my meeting.

No problem.

Romney needs to take a stand. I think he should stop all foreign aid, close down most military bases around the world, stop farm subsidies, get rid of the TSA, stop food stamps, remove all government regulatory agencies, and shut down the USPS.

In the process he would loose the support of all Jews (who get the most aid), any one who has families in the Middle East, Asia, or South American (whom all get some kind of aid from us), he'll loose support of millions in the military and their dependents, loose the vote from all of the farmers and pretty much the mid west, lost the vote from everyone on welfare or food stamps or any kind of federal support, loose the vote from anyone working in a union or insurance or medical fields, and when he shuts down the USPS he'll lost the vote of all of the postal workers, their dependents, as well as a lot of other government employees.

At that point... The only people who will be voting for him will be rich white business owners most likely of european orgins. In other words, people like... People like you Minte.

I agree with you on a lot of points here, but the reason it doesn't get done is because the moment you make a statement like "Let's stop all foreign aid" suddenly pissed off the entire Jewish population plus pissed off every government in the world.

This is why shit doesn't get done.

Robbie · 10-31-2012, 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rochard

That's not true at all. They make ties in the US and they aren't expensive at all. Hats too.

What you mean to say is "It increases Trump's profit margin if he has them made in China and them shipped to the us".

Yeah, here's a tie maker here in the U.S. Real nice ties. Not shitty ties. Click on the neckties and check the price. Some of us here actually wear nice clothes from time to time: http://www.beautiesltd.com/category/neck-ties

And does it really matter to you that in increases Trump's profit margin? That's the whole point isn't it?
Would you make 50 cents when you could make a dollar simply by manufacturing in the most profitable way?

Why would you (or anybody else) demonize smart business practices? It's not the fault of a business that they can make more money by producing in another country.

It's the fault of greedy govt. (local, state, and federal) who keep their filthy hands on your wallet and shake you down on the local level with fines and fees and paperwork and taxes that CAUSE it to be more expensive to produce here.

It seems to me that our society went from anti-govt. protestors in the 1960's/1970's to a bunch of pro-govt. sheep in the present day.

Minte · 10-31-2012, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rochard

No problem.

Romney needs to take a stand. I think he should stop all foreign aid, close down most military bases around the world, stop farm subsidies, get rid of the TSA, stop food stamps, remove all government regulatory agencies, and shut down the USPS.

In the process he would loose the support of all Jews (who get the most aid), any one who has families in the Middle East, Asia, or South American (whom all get some kind of aid from us), he'll loose support of millions in the military and their dependents, loose the vote from all of the farmers and pretty much the mid west, lost the vote from everyone on welfare or food stamps or any kind of federal support, loose the vote from anyone working in a union or insurance or medical fields, and when he shuts down the USPS he'll lost the vote of all of the postal workers, their dependents, as well as a lot of other government employees.

At that point... The only people who will be voting for him will be rich white business owners most likely of european orgins. In other words, people like... People like you Minte.

I agree with you on a lot of points here, but the reason it doesn't get done is because the moment you make a statement like "Let's stop all foreign aid" suddenly pissed off the entire Jewish population plus pissed off every government in the world.

This is why shit doesn't get done.

I understand why things don't get done. Paul, nagged me for a list of things I would do to make a good dent in the deficit. That was as much of a list I could type up in 15 minutes.

Rochard · 10-31-2012, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minte

It increases the profits is the operative phrase.

So your saying the only for a company to make a profit is to have it made in China? They can't make ties in the United States and be cost effective?

I disagree: http://americanmadeyes.com/clothinga.../mensties.html

Robbie · 10-31-2012, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rochard

So your saying the only for a company to make a profit is to have it made in China? They can't make ties in the United States and be cost effective?

I disagree: http://americanmadeyes.com/clothinga.../mensties.html

LOL...did you go to that website?
The first tie maker's link to their website doesn't work (out of business?)
The second one makes novelty "military" looking ties (camouflage and that type of thing)
The third one is cheap ties
The fourth one is the one I cited earlier. Hundred dollar ties.

Sly · 10-31-2012, 03:23 PM

The real question here is why are all of the $20 ties beyond ugly? You need to spend at least $50 to get a decent looking tie.

Sometimes I wonder if that's done on purpose. New conspiracy for GFY to look into?

Minte · 10-31-2012, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rochard

So your saying the only for a company to make a profit is to have it made in China? They can't make ties in the United States and be cost effective?

I disagree: http://americanmadeyes.com/clothinga.../mensties.html

No, you are saying that. If you are going to participate in this discussion it would have merit if you actually read some of it.

Paul Markham · 11-01-2012, 12:20 AM

The tie debate is just one example of how the world is changing and it's effect on many.

Huge numbers of jobs have gone to countries where it's cheaper to produce them. This has given a few a lot of profit and many lose their jobs.

So what's the solution?

Tax those who have jobs and those who make a lot of money so they can make sure those who have lost out, can still have a job. Yet a job that contributes to the good of the country they live in.

Cut taxes, borrow money to make up the difference. to make sure there are still jobs for those who lost out.

Cut taxes, don't borrow, let those who lost out rot and lose a huge swathe of buying Americans?

We were all brought up on the ethic of fending for ourselves, making our own way in life and not relying on others. More so for me than for many here. This ethic comes from a time when there were jobs to be had, today the world has changed.

Yes there are some jobs to be had, but if an employer will pay an illegal immigrant so little it's better for a person to stay on welfare. Why should he go to work? The solution to this is simple.

Yes there are people who abuse the system, like business men abuse the system. Do you make 98% suffer because of the 2% of abusers? The solution to this is simple.

Sandy hit the East Coast and devastated it, no one is saying they shouldn't get Government Funding. A bigger storm has hit the West, the storm of cheap imports and lost jobs. Should we ignore the victims, so a few can be a little bit better off?

Paul Markham · 11-01-2012, 12:39 AM

We have been fed an illusion and myth that we can spend our money better than the Government can. Well can we?

Will we adopt a pensioner, invalid, or someone who has lost a job or a policeman, or fireman, a street light, a part of a motorway, part of a pavement or anything that our taxes are spent on.

Or will we buy a bigger car of a silk tie and say screw the rest because I need a silk tie to drive to work on my free road in my big swanky car?

Minte · 11-01-2012, 07:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

We have been fed an illusion and myth that we can spend our money better than the Government can. Well can we?

Will we adopt a pensioner, invalid, or someone who has lost a job or a policeman, or fireman, a street light, a part of a motorway, part of a pavement or anything that our taxes are spent on.

Or will we buy a bigger car of a silk tie and say screw the rest because I need a silk tie to drive to work on my free road in my big swanky car?

Thanks for reminding me, I am clearly in need of some new silk ties. As soon as my assistant gets back from washing my new Mercedes S-class I think some shopping might have merit.

Robbie · 11-01-2012, 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

We have been fed an illusion and myth that we can spend our money better than the Government can.

Wow. I guess there's nothing more to say about Paul's ideas at this point.

10-30-2012, 10:07 AM	#115
Paul Markham Too old to care Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: On the sofa, watching TV or doing my jigsaws. Posts: 52,943	If I did my research right here's the problem. The US raises $2.45 trillion a year in taxes. 15.7% GDP. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_...federal_budget Government spends 25.36% of GDP http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/wp-cont...utlays-GDP.png So Daddy's spending more on his family than he's earning. Now does he go home and say to the family "We have to start living like poorer people." Or does he keep borrowing? What ever he chooses will be devastating for the family. The proof of the devastation is to be soon on the news programmes. Not NY this week. Even though is FEMA a great place to cut spending or split it between States? The only sensible way out of the mess is a multi level approach. More taxes, less loop holes. More long term investment in the future. Shaving back food/oil subsidies. Tax imported finished goods. Sales tax. Don't forget the Government is voted in by the people, so the people must take the blame. They kept telling you "No more taxes" and didn't stop the spending. And still the voters vote them in. __________________ Blowout deal. 880 videos, 2,400 image sets, plus many RAW videos. $500. PM me for a deal. Skype Paulmarkham70

10-31-2012, 07:08 AM	#121
Relentless www.EngineFood.com Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 5,697	In reality you'd be able to cut much more and do better by cutting most things 10-15% than by cutting some things 100%... The one thing I'd cut immediately 100% is the drug war. Putting people in prison for years and costing a ton of money because they sold pot is crazy, especially when we could tax legal sales instead... __________________ Website Secure \| Engine Food ICQ# 266-942-896

10-31-2012, 09:46 AM	#125
Robbie Leaner, Meaner, Faster Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Vegas Posts: 20,959	Minte you're wasting your time answering that question to Paul. I already did that and instead of accepting my answer on what I would do...he did exactly what he did to you just now. He goes off on your answer with more questions all spawned from his fantasy world of "theories" about how things work. It's just a never ending waste of time. When it comes to politics...Paul appears to be one of those "doom and gloom" people who feel that it's all up to govt. to take care of us. We are simply helpless children. __________________ -Robbie ClaudiaMarie.Com

10-31-2012, 11:28 AM	#138
Robbie Leaner, Meaner, Faster Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Vegas Posts: 20,959	Please Paul...can't you PLEASE stay in your section: https://gfy.com/forumdisplay.php?f=54 Don't you have your hands full arguing with other idiots over there already? __________________ -Robbie ClaudiaMarie.Com

10-31-2012, 03:23 PM	#145
Sly Let's do some business! Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 31,326	The real question here is why are all of the $20 ties beyond ugly? You need to spend at least $50 to get a decent looking tie. Sometimes I wonder if that's done on purpose. New conspiracy for GFY to look into? __________________ Vacares - Web Hosting, Domains, O365, Security & More - Paxum and BTC Accepted Windows VPS now available Great for TSS, Nifty Stats, remote work, virtual assistants, etc. Click here for more details.

10-31-2012, 09:58 AM	#126
flashfire ICQ 1 6 7 8 5 3 4 9 2 Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 13,098	Trump goes on Letterman and rips Obama for China then Dave pulls out all Trumps shitty products made there lol

11-01-2012, 12:20 AM	#147
Paul Markham Too old to care Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: On the sofa, watching TV or doing my jigsaws. Posts: 52,943	The tie debate is just one example of how the world is changing and it's effect on many. Huge numbers of jobs have gone to countries where it's cheaper to produce them. This has given a few a lot of profit and many lose their jobs. So what's the solution? Tax those who have jobs and those who make a lot of money so they can make sure those who have lost out, can still have a job. Yet a job that contributes to the good of the country they live in. Cut taxes, borrow money to make up the difference. to make sure there are still jobs for those who lost out. Cut taxes, don't borrow, let those who lost out rot and lose a huge swathe of buying Americans? We were all brought up on the ethic of fending for ourselves, making our own way in life and not relying on others. More so for me than for many here. This ethic comes from a time when there were jobs to be had, today the world has changed. Yes there are some jobs to be had, but if an employer will pay an illegal immigrant so little it's better for a person to stay on welfare. Why should he go to work? The solution to this is simple. Yes there are people who abuse the system, like business men abuse the system. Do you make 98% suffer because of the 2% of abusers? The solution to this is simple. Sandy hit the East Coast and devastated it, no one is saying they shouldn't get Government Funding. A bigger storm has hit the West, the storm of cheap imports and lost jobs. Should we ignore the victims, so a few can be a little bit better off? __________________ Blowout deal. 880 videos, 2,400 image sets, plus many RAW videos. $500. PM me for a deal. Skype Paulmarkham70

11-01-2012, 12:39 AM	#148
Paul Markham Too old to care Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: On the sofa, watching TV or doing my jigsaws. Posts: 52,943	We have been fed an illusion and myth that we can spend our money better than the Government can. Well can we? Will we adopt a pensioner, invalid, or someone who has lost a job or a policeman, or fireman, a street light, a part of a motorway, part of a pavement or anything that our taxes are spent on. Or will we buy a bigger car of a silk tie and say screw the rest because I need a silk tie to drive to work on my free road in my big swanky car? __________________ Blowout deal. 880 videos, 2,400 image sets, plus many RAW videos. $500. PM me for a deal. Skype Paulmarkham70