so when does it all come crashing down? - Page 2 - GoFuckYourself.com

wehateporn · 08-03-2012, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill8

that is not evidence that applies to economic collapse.

you are applying a rhetorical fallacy, several, actually, but, your primary fallacy in this case is a red herring.

you need to come up with evidence that suggests that race mixing is contributing to economic failures or somehow making responding to economic crises more difficult.

"terrorism" is not a cause of the kinds of economic instabilities we are talking about, and thats what cameron was talking about in that article.

The article wasn't being used as evidence that the UK would cope less well in a collapse, the article was to show that it's even been officially announced that multiculturalism is a failure in the UK.

As I said, in the scenario of a severe economic collapse, there would be barriers to hinder recovery, people not wanting to work together, to help each other, not seeing themselves as part of the same big family.

wehateporn · 08-03-2012, 07:05 PM

Bill8,

"United we stand, divided we fall"

theking · 08-03-2012, 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill8

why will it level out?

Because our system of governance will have slowly adjusted and adapted as well as corporate policies.

davethedope · 08-03-2012, 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wehateporn

The article wasn't being used as evidence that the UK would cope less well in a collapse, the article was to show that it's even been officially announced that multiculturalism is a failure in the UK.

As I said, in the scenario of a severe economic collapse, there would be barriers to hinder recovery, people not wanting to work together, to help each other, not seeing themselves as part of the same big family.

The article is not about multiculturalism not working, but how efforts to make multiculturalism work have failed.

And you are citing a red herring as evidence, or proof of your theory. If you can't see that, then...

The scenario you're describing has less to do with culture and ethnicity than it does with limited natural resources and geographical space.

Naturally, the UK can't nearly support its population with the resources at hand, so yes, the financial calamity you're envisioning would be a devestating scenario, but it's solution would have little to do with ethnic and cultural homogeny.

Vapid - BANNED FOR LIFE · 08-03-2012, 07:12 PM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brinkmanship

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minte

Brinkmanship (often misused as brinksmanship) is the practice of pushing dangerous events to the verge of—or to the brink of—disaster in order to achieve the most advantageous outcome. It occurs in international politics, foreign policy, labour relations, and (in contemporary settings) military strategy involving the threatened use of nuclear weapons.

This maneuver of pushing a situation with the opponent to the brink succeeds by forcing the opponent to back down and make concessions. This might be achieved through diplomatic maneuvers by creating the impression that one is willing to use extreme methods rather than concede. During the Cold War, the threat of nuclear force was often used as such an escalating measure. Adolf Hitler also used brinkmanship conspicuously during his rise to power.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamesmanship

Quote:

Gamesmanship is the use of dubious (although not technically illegal) methods to win or gain a serious advantage in a game or sport. It has been described as "Pushing the rules to the limit without getting caught, using whatever dubious methods possible to achieve the desired end" (Lumpkin, Stoll and Beller, 1994:92). It may be inferred that the term derives from the idea of playing for the game (i.e., to win at any cost) as opposed to sportsmanship, which derives from the idea of playing for sport. The term originates from Stephen Potter's humorous 1947 book, The Theory and Practice of Gamesmanship (or the Art of Winning Games without Actually Cheating).

TheSquealer · 08-03-2012, 07:15 PM

^^^^^^

I feel like a Terrorist should be meaner and be constantly stating demands.

wehateporn · 08-03-2012, 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davethedope

The article is not about multiculturalism not working, but how efforts to make multiculturalism work have failed.

My point is that it has failed in the UK and we now have a divided nation, which is weaker than one which has a strong sense of national identity. David Cameron says that different cultures have been encouraged to live 'separate lives'.

David Cameron: "Under the doctrine of state multiculturalism, we have encouraged different cultures to live separate lives, apart from each other and apart from the mainstream. We?ve failed to provide a vision of society to which they feel they want to belong. We?ve even tolerated these segregated communities behaving in ways that run completely counter to our values."

Vapid - BANNED FOR LIFE · 08-03-2012, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheSquealer

^^^^^^

I feel like a Terrorist should be meaner and be constantly stating demands.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockholm_syndrome

Quote:

Stockholm syndrome is a psychological phenomenon in which hostages express empathy and have positive feelings towards their captors, sometimes to the point of defending them. These feelings are generally considered irrational in light of the danger or risk endured by the victims, who essentially mistake a lack of abuse from their captors for an act of kindness.[1][2] The FBI’s Hostage Barricade Database System shows that roughly 27% of victims show evidence of Stockholm Syndrome.[3]

davethedope · 08-03-2012, 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wehateporn

My point is that it has failed in the UK and we now have a divided nation, which is weaker than one which has a strong sense of national identity. David Cameron says that different cultures have been encouraged to live 'separate lives'.

David Cameron: "Under the doctrine of state multiculturalism, we have encouraged different cultures to live separate lives, apart from each other and apart from the mainstream. We?ve failed to provide a vision of society to which they feel they want to belong. We?ve even tolerated these segregated communities behaving in ways that run completely counter to our values."

Are you really taken in by that mumbo jumbo?

Nevertheless, without going to far into this, I'll give you an image to ponder: an atheist from London singing "God Save The Queen."

Therein lies your answers.

Basically, just because David Cameron says something doesn't make it true. I mean duh, winning.

True, though is the fact that a class based society such as the UK probably has a faulty concept of what modern multiculutralism entails, especially if the PM says it's failed because some islamic assholes want to segregate themselves.

wehateporn · 08-03-2012, 08:03 PM

I'm not taken in by it, but it's interesting to see that they're not trying to pretend it's a success anymore. Of course I don't take much in the article seriously, as I'm well aware of the reality of what happened on London 7/7 and I'm also aware of the true purpose of so-called 'Terrorism'. Cameron's lying to us now about Syria, as is the BBC, they never stop lying.

My own assessment of the failure of multiculturalism in the UK comes purely from having spent my life here, the article was just as a side note that it would seem the failure is now 'official' whatever that might mean.

Quote:

Originally Posted by davethedope

Are you really taken in by that mumbo jumbo?

Nevertheless, without going to far into this, I'll give you an image to ponder: an atheist from London singing "God Save The Queen."

Therein lies your answers.

Basically, just because David Cameron says something doesn't make it true. I mean duh, winning.

True, though is the fact that a class based society such as the UK probably has a faulty concept of what modern multiculutralism entails, especially if the PM says it's failed because some islamic assholes want to segregate themselves.

Bill8 · 08-03-2012, 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wehateporn

The article wasn't being used as evidence that the UK would cope less well in a collapse, the article was to show that it's even been officially announced that multiculturalism is a failure in the UK.

As I said, in the scenario of a severe economic collapse, there would be barriers to hinder recovery, people not wanting to work together, to help each other, not seeing themselves as part of the same big family.

yeah, i've heard that argument from european right wingers, repeated pretty much as a political aphorism, but, other than talking about how horrible the muslims and africans and other brown people are, how they gang rape white women and shit, I have not seen them offer any evidence or proofs for it.

so, you are kind of suggesting that the whites, the celts and saxons and normans, will be prevented from working together to survive in a collapse because the brownies will come pouring out of the ghettos to steal their stuff, I assume?

or maybe the brownies form some sort of political coalition that blocks effective legislation?

sounds like paranois to me. what is the force that keeps the whites from just machine gunning them down? I didn't know the brownies had their own armies.

Si · 08-03-2012, 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wehateporn

My point is that it has failed in the UK and we now have a divided nation, which is weaker than one which has a strong sense of national identity. David Cameron says that different cultures have been encouraged to live 'separate lives'.

David Cameron: "Under the doctrine of state multiculturalism, we have encouraged different cultures to live separate lives, apart from each other and apart from the mainstream. We?ve failed to provide a vision of society to which they feel they want to belong. We?ve even tolerated these segregated communities behaving in ways that run completely counter to our values."

Proof is in the pudding and the UK has failed hugely. But the economic factors have been a huge problem since this started. The UK is far too soft on areas it needs to be harder.

I grew up in a multi ethnic melting pot and we done pretty well collectively I believe. We had our differences, some people still live there and haven't moved on but I think we all grew together pretty well.

There is people who now live excellent lives from growing up on a working class council estate and there are those who got trapped by it (theoritically)

I see Canada, Expat hotpots (or hot spots) for Brits and they do great things in those places. Which to me must correlate back to the country being the problem. I don't where the problem lies but I think is a multi level thing.

The police are useless because their rights have been stripped by the human right brigade of do-gooding idiots.

Immigration, see the EU.

Economy see the EU.

All of us Brits seriously need to get behind UKIP next election, I don't agree with their nuclear policy but they are heading most of their ideas in the right direction.

As for when it all comes crashing down? It has happened many times before, don't fear the monetary system, learn it and find its faults.

wehateporn · 08-03-2012, 08:12 PM

You're putting words into my mouth Bill8, you've just said that not me. You'd need to spend some time in the UK to understand what's happened here.

The highest segregation in the UK is between Pakistanis and Indians in the north of England, there is also a higher degree of segregation blacks and Asians than between whites and blacks. The problem is more with culture (lack of common culture) and not race.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill8

yeah, i've heard that argument from european right wingers, repeated pretty much as a political aphorism, but, other than talking about how horrible the muslims and africans and other brown people are, how they gang rape white women and shit, I have not seen them offer any evidence or proofs for it.

so, you are kind of suggesting that the whites, the celts and saxons and normans, will be prevented from working together to survive in a collapse because the brownies will come pouring out of the ghettos to steal their stuff, I assume?

or maybe the brownies form some sort of political coalition that blocks effective legislation?

sounds like paranois to me. what is the force that keeps the whites from just machine gunning them down? I didn't know the brownies had their own armies.

Bill8 · 08-03-2012, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theking

Because our system of governance will have slowly adjusted and adapted as well as corporate policies.

hah. so you think this is about governance. and that governance will improve.

quite the optimist.

I think this is about physics and math. until we have billions of deaths, I dont see any force that modifies the physics and the math.

the systems we have worked pretty well until overwhelmed by physics.

Si · 08-03-2012, 08:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill8

yeah, i've heard that argument from european right wingers, repeated pretty much as a political aphorism, but, other than talking about how horrible the muslims and africans and other brown people are, how they gang rape white women and shit, I have not seen them offer any evidence or proofs for it.

so, you are kind of suggesting that the whites, the celts and saxons and normans, will be prevented from working together to survive in a collapse because the brownies will come pouring out of the ghettos to steal their stuff, I assume?

or maybe the brownies form some sort of political coalition that blocks effective legislation?

sounds like paranois to me. what is the force that keeps the whites from just machine gunning them down? I didn't know the brownies had their own armies.

Please don't lump me in with him, the government has fucked up some serious issues in the UK and the Multiculturalism, is part of it not because of the differences but because of the gov's attitude torwards them. It is like the perfect scenario with the imperfect rules fucking it up totally.

It is a deep problem and it can only improve in the UK if it handled from an all ecompassing point.

wehateporn · 08-03-2012, 08:16 PM

Good post Si!

Where did you grow up by the way?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Si

Proof is in the pudding and the UK has failed hugely. But the economic factors have been a huge problem since this started. The UK is far too soft on areas it needs to be harder.

I grew up in a multi ethnic melting pot and we done pretty well collectively I believe. We had our differences, some people still live there and haven't moved on but I think we all grew together pretty well.

There is people who now live excellent lives from growing up on a working class council estate and there are those who got trapped by it (theoritically)

I see Canada, Expat hotpots (or hot spots) for Brits and they do great things in those places. Which to me must correlate back to the country being the problem. I don't where the problem lies but I think is a multi level thing.

The police are useless because their rights have been stripped by the human right brigade of do-gooding idiots.

Immigration, see the EU.

Economy see the EU.

All of us Brits seriously need to get behind UKIP next election, I don't agree with their nuclear policy but they are heading most of their ideas in the right direction.

As for when it all comes crashing down? It has happened many times before, don't fear the monetary system, learn it and find its faults.

Bill8 · 08-03-2012, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wehateporn

You're putting words into my mouth Bill8, you've just said that not me. You'd need to spend some time in the UK to understand what's happened here.

The highest segregation in the UK is between Pakistanis and Indians in the north of England, there is also a higher degree of segregation blacks and Asians than between whites and blacks. The problem is more with culture and not race.

I repeat stories and arguments I've heard from some of my euro rightwing friends.

so, go ahead and explain how it will work. why and how will the paks and the indians and the africans and muslims and asians block the UK from coping with economic crisis?

whats their power to do such things? and why are the celts saxons and normans so weak and unable to fend for themselves?

wehateporn · 08-03-2012, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Si

Please don't lump me in with him

That post of his came purely from his own wild imagination

wehateporn · 08-03-2012, 08:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill8

I repeat stories and arguments I've heard from some of my euro rightwing friends.

so, go ahead and explain how it will work. why and how will the paks and the indians and the africans and muslims and asians block the UK from coping with economic crisis?

whats their power to do such things? and why are the celts saxons and normans so weak and unable to fend for themselves?

Hang on, you're one of the focking post bots, damn it, I fell for your BS for too long

Good one though

Bill8 · 08-03-2012, 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Si

Please don't lump me in with him, the government has fucked up some serious issues in the UK and the Multiculturalism, is part of it not because of the differences but because of the gov's attitude torwards them. It is like the perfect scenario with the imperfect rules fucking it up totally.

It is a deep problem and it can only improve in the UK if it handled from an all ecompassing point.

fucked up how? whats fucked up and why?

UK is a fucking island - it's not like europe, which has that massive land bridge. presumanbly, somebody in charge there wants the cheap labor of the brownies.

pretty much like the US - we wanted the mexicans to be servant class, and there was the huge handy land bridge.

what are the brownies doing that causes economic trouble?

taking blokes jobs? here the mexicans do jobs the poor whites dont want to do anymore.

Bill8 · 08-03-2012, 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wehateporn

Hang on, you're one of the focking post bots, damn it, I fell for your BS for too long

Good one though

right, I'm a bot from 2001. with no sig. who never sells anything, never posts a link except to political and economic news I find interesting.

why do you wingnuts always retreat into that kind of bullshit whenever anybody asks you to back up your claims with sound arguments?

chicken, I guess. I imagine you rarely interact with a person who knows enough to call you when you lay down some softpedaled racial bullshit.

listen man, I dont care if you dont like the brownies, I'm not a major fan myself, but if you are gonna make a brownie argument, back it up. dont run off crying bot.

wehateporn · 08-03-2012, 08:32 PM

I know when I'm being trolled Bill8

"right, I'm a bot from 2001. with no sig. who never sells anything, never posts a link except to political and economic news I find interesting."

Yes, that is what a bot would look like, as they're not real posters, but I don't need to explain that to you.

Anyway, well done for catching me out this time

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill8

right, I'm a bot from 2001. with no sig. who never sells anything, never posts a link except to political and economic news I find interesting.

why do you wingnuts always retreat into that kind of bullshit whenever anybody asks you to back up your claims with sound arguments?

chicken, I guess. I imagine you rarely interact with a person who knows enough to call you when you lay down some softpedaled racial bullshit.

listen man, I dont care if you dont like the brownies, I'm not a major fan myself, but if you are gonna make a brownie argument, back it up. dont run off crying bot.

Bill8 · 08-03-2012, 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wehateporn

I know when I'm being trolled Bill8

again, the classic example of a wingnut with weak arguments running away when asked to do something simple, like explain how they see a particular problem working.

real quick to jump in with some mild racism, and real quick to run.

pussy. all you have to do is write a few real sentences, but you run away.

you know, if you wingnuts stopped being such pussies you might actually accomplish something.

what you need to do is study, so you know how to explain the facts and principles behind your ideas.

I am perfectly willing to buy a worldview based on the idea that the brownies are the problem, but it has to be presented in a coherent and logical way.

Si · 08-03-2012, 08:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wehateporn

You're putting words into my mouth Bill8, you've just said that not me. You'd need to spend some time in the UK to understand what's happened here.

The highest segregation in the UK is between Pakistanis and Indians in the north of England, there is also a higher degree of segregation blacks and Asians than between whites and blacks. The problem is more with culture (lack of common culture) and not race.

True but also skewed.

I'd like to know anyone here who grew up with the following group of people in their community.

Trying to be as accurate as possible, country of origin and language and religion:

English, European and American Christians of all backgrounds (CofE, Catholic, Protestant, Baptist, Atheist etc)
Jewish (not until later in life but I have been friends with)
Pakistani Muslim and sikh
Indian mostly Hindu
Cantonese (hong kong)
African
Irish
Scottish
Welsh

I don't know if I was lucky or what, but I got to grow up with many different cultures for atleast 11 years during school, and at work when the eastern europeans and others started coming over I got to work with Polish, Russian, Lithuanian, Canadian, Sotuh african and a few more "ethnic groups".

I never noticed any segregation other than a few areas in my town were largely Pakistani or Indian (like you mentioned)

But where I was we all got along, it isn't culture. It is not stirring the pot enough and letting too many people in (sad to say that may sound right wing) and letting those people segregate themselves too much.

I agree with the "if you come here, you should live as we do" mindset. Because that is where you are moving to, but there should also be balance with the immigrants lifestyle and culture that they can continue. They should be able to practice their beliefs, create and celebrate their own culture and be free of prejudice. But it should not hinder the patriotic society of "natives" there is too many over do-gooders in the UK.

But it is a delicate balance.

Bill8 · 08-03-2012, 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wehateporn

Yes, that is what a bot would look like, as they're not real posters, but I don't need to explain that to you.

chicken

https://gfy.com/showpost.php?p=19097028&postcount=55

one of several from

https://gfy.com/showthread.php?t=1076363

usually i am at gfy to extract biz info, not to give it. I'm not b2b.

discussing politics and economics is just a hobby. sadly, there are not many really skilled right wing debaters here anymore.

Si · 08-03-2012, 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wehateporn

Good post Si!

Where did you grow up by the way?

Just south of Londinium.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill8

I repeat stories and arguments I've heard from some of my euro rightwing friends.

so, go ahead and explain how it will work. why and how will the paks and the indians and the africans and muslims and asians block the UK from coping with economic crisis?

whats their power to do such things? and why are the celts saxons and normans so weak and unable to fend for themselves?

Wow

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill8

fucked up how? whats fucked up and why?

UK is a fucking island - it's not like europe, which has that massive land bridge. presumanbly, somebody in charge there wants the cheap labor of the brownies.

pretty much like the US - we wanted the mexicans to be servant class, and there was the huge handy land bridge.

what are the brownies doing that causes economic trouble?

taking blokes jobs? here the mexicans do jobs the poor whites dont want to do anymore.

No you're right it's not like Europe, the UK managed to mantain some dignity staying out of the euro and being part of the EU still managed to fuck it up to some extent.

Do you think all Europeans are right wing or something?

Well, your point is obviously trying to catch people out and I will point to cheap labour abroad (yes abroad not immigrants), privatization of certain services, soft banking regulations and overpaid MPs and civil servants as being the main causes that need changing.

Quick edit: Among others.

TheSquealer · 08-03-2012, 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terrorist

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockholm_syndrome

Believe it or not, I've been to that actual bank.

Si · 08-03-2012, 09:20 PM

What is this land bridge you're talking about anyway Bill8? If you mean an open border, I can go live in another EU country anytime I like, same thing ain't it?

Holland, Denmark, France, Germany, Greece, Spain etc. Anyone in the EU can come to the island, just need a bit of cash or some good hiding skills.

We don't need bridges, there is a tunnel and plenty of boats.

Vapid - BANNED FOR LIFE · 08-03-2012, 09:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheSquealer

Believe it or not, I've been to that actual bank.

Excellent

GAMEFINEST · 08-03-2012, 10:10 PM

keep printing money

08-03-2012, 07:05 PM	#52
wehateporn Promoting Debate on GFY Industry Role: Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 27,173	Bill8, "United we stand, divided we fall" __________________ Sexy Girls Teasing

08-03-2012, 07:15 PM	#56
TheSquealer BANNED Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: In Your Head Posts: 25,145	^^^^^^ I feel like a Terrorist should be meaner and be constantly stating demands. __________________ . Yes, fewer illegal immigrants working equates to more job opportunities for American citizens. Rochard

08-03-2012, 10:10 PM	#80
GAMEFINEST Make STACK$ Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: sexy time Posts: 14,424	keep printing money __________________ Compound interest.

08-03-2012, 09:20 PM	#78
Si Such Fun! Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 13,900	What is this land bridge you're talking about anyway Bill8? If you mean an open border, I can go live in another EU country anytime I like, same thing ain't it? Holland, Denmark, France, Germany, Greece, Spain etc. Anyone in the EU can come to the island, just need a bit of cash or some good hiding skills. We don't need bridges, there is a tunnel and plenty of boats.