peterk

depending on where you live, if your home isn't worth that much money you might not have to pay any property tax.

Property tax exemption

A homestead exemption is most often only on a fixed monetary amount, such as the first 50,000 dollars of the assessed value. The remainder is taxed at the normal rate. In this case, a home valued at 150,000 would then only be taxed on 100,000; a home valued at 75,000 would only be taxed on 25,000.

The exemption is generally intended to make the property tax a progressive tax. In some places, the exemption is paid for with a local or state (or equivalent unit) sales tax.

The homestead exemption sales tax (HEST) in some places has been criticized for not exempting groceries, thus the poor end up paying some of their food money to subsidize those who can already afford their own homes. Since the poor typically rent, neither they nor their landlords get an exemption.
Examples

California - Exempts the first $7,000 of residential homestead from property taxes.
Georgia - Allows a 1% HEST, but it is only done in a few counties. None exempt groceries, but all must exempt prescription drugs.
Oklahoma - Allows a $1000 deduction of the assessed valuation if owners file for homestead exemption with the local county clerk. This is about $75 to $125 of savings per year.
Texas - Allows a deduction equal to 20% of house value. Additional exemptions are available for county taxes, people over 65 and people who are disabled.[4]
Florida homestead exemption - Allows a $50,000 exemption for the value of property which is assessed a property tax. Furthermore, increases in assessment shall not exceed the lower of: a) 3% of assessed value from prior year; or b) percentage change in CPI.[5]
Boulder, Colorado - Allows a 50% deduction for up to the first $200,000 (so $100,000 exemption) for seniors (over age 65) who have lived in their property for ten consecutive years.
Louisiana Homestead Exemption - Exempts the first $75,000[citation needed] of residential homestead from local property taxes.
Rhode Island Homestead Exemption- Exempts the first 20% of home value from property taxes.
Michigan Principal Residence Exemption - Exempts the homeowner from paying the operating millage of local school districts.

Rochard

We all feel better when we can point a finger at someone and say "It's your fault" but I don't believe that's the case with local governments. In very (VERY) simple terms, city revenue is down, costs are skyrocketing, and there's more of a drain than ever on local city government resources.

It's very simple - Don't pay your bills, eventually they come after you. It doesn't matter if it's $400 or $40k.

I'm also guessing they are making this look minor. Maybe it was $400 in sewer bills, but this person also owes $15k in property taxes or something.

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Bill8

still, the people most likely to be affected by this kind of thing are the elderly, on fixed incomes, with no family to help.

so all you guys saying "pay your bills fuckin deadbeats" are basically saying you despise poor old folks who cant pay their bills and are afraid or unable to ask for help.

sounds about right, consider the names and political inclinations of those saying that.

theking

The help is usually available for the asking. In some states...if not all states...the elderly can...based upon income...receive life time deferments for property taxes. In addition some states...if not all states...offer assistance for utilities etc.

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Bill8

you and I know the help is available for the asking. But, as you also well know, that help is limited, and comes with plenty of strings attached.

but does an old lady? how about an old guy too proud to ask for help? and what do they do when the help runs out?

attacking 80 and 90 year olds for not knowing that help is SOMETIMES available seems morally questionable. when was the last time you personally helped somebody in that situation?

oh right - government is supposed to provide that help - or maybe the church right - certainly not you.

when was the last time you said that government should have more money to help seniors?

Robbie

Technically they forced all of us into a "retirement plan" called Social Security.

The scheme was that people would start getting it at 65. And most people didn't live much past that age. So they paid in more than they ever got back.

But now...the govt. dipped it's greedy hands into the pot and spent the money coming in (they never made the "lock box" for Social Security that Al Gore wanted), and people are living a LOT longer.

The govt. never was meant to "help seniors". That is fucking WELFARE.

What FDR set up was "social security" to ensure that we all had money saved for us by the govt. for out retirement. It isn't supposed to be "helping seniors" (welfare/entitlement)...it's SUPPOSED to be our own money coming back to us.

Of course these days in Washington they don't think of ANY money as belonging to the people who actually earned it.

I heard an ad on the radio the other day with the President criticizing Romney for wanting to "pay off" millionaires with tax breaks.

Only Washington D.C. logic could ever think that a person keeping the money they earned is the govt. "paying them off".

I've also heard tax breaks referred to as "Govt. spending"
WTF?!?!?!

So every penny that I earned and get to keep is considered govt. "spending" because they didn't get to get their thieving hands on it? lol

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ClaudiaMarie.Com

Bill8

I've never had to ask for assistance from the government, so I don't have first hand experience.

but from what I am told the proceedures are intentionally humiliating, confusing, degrading, vastly complicated, unfair, and the people who administer those programs are unpleasant little fuckwads who take great pleasure in humiliating people.

I get that you want these old folks to be humiliated, to feel shame for beng poor; the most despicable thing you can be is a poor old person in america.

I personally can understand having so much pride that I would let the sheriff sell my home and throw me in the gutter rather than begging some government minityrant for help.

we are going to see a LOT more of this in the next few decades. america is going down a dark road, and a lot of people are going to get thrown under the bus.

Bill8

yeah? so? what's your point?

entitlement programs are a problem, true. largely because of unexpected population bubbles (the boomers as example) and changing aging and death demographics, sure.

arguably we should always have let the old and the sick suffer in the ditches, like we did before the new deal, sure.

so whattya gonna do about it? what's your fucking solution?

you're glad to see old ladies kicked out of their homes, I gather? saves you some money, right?

I assume you have already moved out of the country? or are you still sucking at the public tit, driving the roads, enjoying the economy, benefitting from the education, and the old folks with money to spend?

Bill8

most of you folks aren't big readers, but this was an easy read.

2030, by albert brooks, the tv personality - kind of a science fiction novel about a coming war between teh old and the young in america. he does a nice job of describing a possible future. some of his stuff - an absolute cure for cancer, and a bunch of other senior health care medical advances - seems highly unlikely. but, it's one of the better articulations of the coming old/young conflict.

http://www.amazon.com/2030-Story-Hap...=AG56TWVU5XWC2

yes, what to do about the demographic bulge of the boomers and the coming crisis is entitlements and longevity is a huge real and serious problem - and it deserves serious debate.

so man the fuck up and debate it seriously. you have to offer real solutions not pie-in-the-sky high school bullshit.

and if you are going to throw the old folks into the gutters man the fuck up, look them in the fucking eye, and stick in the fucking knife.

Robbie

Do you know how much money the Federal govt. spends every day? And how much of it goes towards local roads and education? (that would be NONE by the way)

I don't suck at the public tit you idiot...the public sucks at MY tit. I'm a taxpayer (and one who pays a helluva lot more than most).

Social Security is NOT an "entitlement" program. Well...it wasn't SUPPOSED to be. It was designed and created and approved by the govt as a way for people to have their OWN money when they retired.

Looking back on it with hindsight...I don't think it's a good thing. But that's a matter of opinion.

ANYTHING ELSE is welfare and redistribution of wealth.

I care about MY family. And I help take care of them. Just like people did for thousands of years before Social Security...the world didn't start in the 1930's you know.

As for "public roads"...well, I pay property tax and local sales tax and a million other little fees where I live to pay for city roads and county roads and state roads. NO....I don't suck at the "public tit" to drive. None of us do. We PAY for it dearly.

As for federal highways...Turn your mind back to the 1990's when Bill Clinton slapped a national sales tax on gasoline that we pay to this very day that was touted by the govt. as money that would ONLY be used to build and maintain the interstate highway system. (of course they use if for other stuff every day...because they are thieves and liars, which is the definition of a politician).
So no..every time I put gas in one of my vehicles I pay for the use of federal highways too. So sorry...I don't suck at any "public tit" there either.

Education? Really? The Federal govt. doesn't pay for public schools. My local property tax does. And my college education was paid for by my grandfather (you know...my own FAMILY)...not the Federal govt.
So nope...far from sucking the "public tit" I am one of the people who the local govt. sucks MY tit to get money to pay for everyone's kids to go to school.

As for "enjoying the economy"....wtf are you talking about? The federal govt. doesn't make money for me! Matter of fact, they are doing so much deficit spending (4 billion in NEW debt every DAY) that it's killing the economy.

I don't know what world you live in. But I work hard for my money. And people like me who work, make money, and pay taxes are the LAST people who "suck the public tit"

It's insulting of you to say that to me and in the same breath act like it's OK for people living off the govt. (The REAL public tit)

__________________
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ClaudiaMarie.Com

peterk

i don't despise anyone. i just feel that everyone should pay their bills. it doesn't matter how old you are, man or women, if you want to own things that have bills associated with them then be prepared to pay those bills. if you can't afford to be a home owner then sell your house and rent a lessor expensive residence so you don't have to pay property tax bills. if you can't afford to pay your utility bills then find a room mate or don't use those utilities. people need to be responsible.

peterk

whether some knows there is help or can or can't get help, help is irrelevant. this comes down to someone wanting to own a luxury (home) but not being able to afford it. sorry, if you can't afford to pay the taxes then you shouldn't be a home owner. live with in your means. why can't people take responsibility? who was attacking an 80 year old women? the law is the same for all home owners, doesn't matter their age it would have been the same course of action.

L-Pink

There isn't a local church around that wouldn't have given that old woman $400 to keep her home. She had a problem, ignored the official warnings and didn't seek ouside help. Obviously.

.

Bill8

boo hoo hoo, big healthy man cries like a bitch over his taxes.

fucking whiner.

and not one word about solutions. you are just crying.

talk about solutions like a man.

Bill8

essentially I agree.

but unlike you I feel sorry for the old people. I don't think they should have to be thrown into the ditches because of pride or ignorance.

lets hope you dont end up in a home you loved for decades, forced out of it because you live on a fixed incvome and cant pay steadily rising taxes and utilities.

live within your means is an easy thing to say for someone young and healthy with skills that can be sold in the marketplace.

Robbie

Why are you trolling? I never said anything about "solutions".

What I first posted in this thread was that property tax is BULLSHIT. A person never owns their own property and home. It's really always belongs to the govt. If you had READ my first post you would have seen me say clearly that older people on a fixed income often lose their homes because of it. It's bullshit.

I really have no idea what you are talking about. I'm not whining or crying.

I'm just pointing out the truth. You are twisting stuff and acting like a jerk in this thread.

What do YOU do for a living anyway? What do YOU own? I'm an open book. You're the one on message board with a "nickname".

Tell me about yourself and what qualifications you have to make ANY kind of statements about economics, social structure, and paying taxes other than what you read on the internet...

__________________
-Robbie
ClaudiaMarie.Com

Bill8

lucky for you - you get to have someone else kick the old lady out of her house.

i bet you wouldn't be so tough if it was your mother.

all this proxy aggression and macho bullshit is just that - bullshit. posturing.

you are only able to be so tough because you dont have to watch it up close, or think about what it must be like to be old like that.

I bet you complain about school taxes too - and those are the local taxes that really hurt. but when they strip an old lady of your house you are all "bitch fuckin deserved it, if you can't afford your utility bills then live in a box.

you do realize that rents are higher than taxes and utilities on a home you own right? I own my house free and clear - I couldn't rent an efficiency apartment for what I pay to have a large old house.

Bill8

I'm not trolling, I'm well known here for taking on you wingnuts. I like to fight. It's an interesting challenge to take on multiple opponents, and this is an easy topic for charged debate - kicking people out of there houses, and the coming war between the old and the young - and the coming war between wingnuts and everyone else.

I've been an adult webmaster since 98. I signed up here in 2001. I'm just an affiliate, but one who makes enough money to have been here all this time, and still be here.

I dont have any qualifications other than a college education and a lifelong interest in reading learning and science. I like to let my words speak for themselves, I don't rely on authority.

You raise an important issue - social security and medicare and the other entitlements. I have a longstanding interest in politics, and I like to discuss real solutions to big problems.

but all you are doing is bitching. my wife likes to do that to, just bitch about things without having to do anything serious about them.

if you want to throw down a solution, throw it down. I'll wait.

Bill8

only the possible is relevant.

Robbie

Brother you are in a fantasy world. There are no "opponents" and I'm not a "wingnut".

You presume a lot that you are ignorant of.

__________________
-Robbie
ClaudiaMarie.Com

Bill8

obviously.

altho its a cartoon to say it was over $400 - I dont know the facts, but it sounds like a cascade of bills someone could not afford to pay. The $400 bill was just a trigger of a series of other events and problems.

because we can't know the actual facts, I am looking at this as a theoretical case. no body thinks it's wrong to throw a healthy person capable of earning the money out of a house for not paying their local taxes.

so the theoretical problem is - are we a society that expects our old people to go begging for help? begging to churches, begging to the government, begging to family, begging to strangers?

why didn't the church, if it was so good, find that old woman in trouble and help her, without her begging?

is it the begging that we want? would the begging have made the church feel better about itself? are we a society that now needs to be begged to do something kind?

Bill8

lol all this bluster and posturing, just to avoid having to put a thoughtful solution on the table.

as far as i know I am of no consequence to you.

I already told you what I do for a living, I'm an adult affiliate. Made a lot of money in the easy days, galleries, freesites, seo networks, blogs. I do some computer services on the side these days, the adult biz aint what it used to be, but still it's better than the straight world. i'm an independent with computer and writing skills. Thats all.

Robbie

I edited that down after I wrote it.

Again...When you keep babbling about my "solution"...I have no idea what the fuck you are talking about. All I ever said in this thread was that it's WRONG for the government to take a person's property and home. Especially older people on a fixed income. I also pointed out that Social Security is supposed to be your OWN money that the govt. forced you to give them so that you would have a retirement and that it is NOT welfare.

This thread is about people losing their homes when they can't pay property tax. I already gave my "solution" ABOLISH PROPERTY TAX

Other than that I have ZERO idea why you are insulting me. It makes you look like a bit of a pompous jerk.

There is no "solution" when the govt. forgets it is supposed to work for the people and not the other way around. Any "solution" I have would simply get me thrown in prison for breaking the law by not paying my taxes or having my home and property taken for not paying my property tax.

Now why don't YOU come down from your high horse and have an intelligent debate without acting like you are "smarter" than me or anyone else in this thread...you're not.

__________________
-Robbie
ClaudiaMarie.Com

peterk

you sound like a bitter broke old man, just saying. you are welcome to feel sorry for whomever you want but feeling sorry for someone doesn't change the circumstances or excuse anyone for thier actions. i wouldn't get thrown out of my house if i couldn't afford it. i would have sold it and started renting before it got to that point, i am responsible. i wouldn't feel sorry for myself if i did something stupid so i wouldn't expect anyone to feel sorry for me.

peterk

but you fail to realize what you just said. you said the house is owned outright? then like i said she should have sold it. she would have then had $85,000 in the bank and could easily afford to pay rent and utilities the rest of her life. or she could have got a loan being that she owed no money on her home, reverse mortgage, anything. she wasn't some helpless old women who had no options like you make her out to sound. she chose to ignore it and she paid the consequences. the only crime here according to you is that someone had to move out of a home that they lived in for their whole lives. some times people have to move. its not like she was going to be homeless. she could have sold her house and moved into an apartment.

there is no anger here, just the facts of life. some people just can't seem to handle them and want to cry for others who make stupid mistakes.

peterk

would it have been begging if she would have gone to a bank and got a loan? almost everyone who owns a house has a mortgage why would it have been a big deal for her to have a mortgage too. she was 85 years old, had no money but owned her house outright. then she easily could have fixed her problem, the money she would have got from a loan could have paid all of her utilities, taxes and loan payment for the rest of her life. it's not like she is going to live much longer anyways, she is already 85. problem solved. lots of old people do reverse mortgages too. smart people solve problems, ignorant people make excuses and feel sorry for others.

GregE

I'm not DirtyWhiteBoy, but I'll chime in here.

The utility in question was the woman's sewer/water. Now, it doesn't require all that much in the way of thought to acknowledge that her living without running water wasn't exactly a picnic. Clearly, if she had the money she would pay the damn sewer bill.

You can't squeeze blood out of a rock.

Turn off all of her utilities if you must (I'm speaking rhetorically here), but for crying out loud don't throw an old woman out onto the street.

I don't know how some, supposedly respectable, people in this country can look at themselves in the mirror.

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VenusBlogger

Checking REALTOR site, I can't believe how cheap the houses in USA are...

But this is a neighbor I would like to live on, it looks so clean and nice.

How much does one of those house cost?

How many adult sites and how much SPAM and BLACK-HAT ewhoring and CAM FAKENESS PONZI SCHEMES I need to buy a house there?

peterk

she owned the house with no mortgage. she could have got a loan to pay her bills. there was a lot of blood there, she didn't use it. she probably had more worth then a lot of people posting here.

peterk

doesn't matter how cheap they are if you have no money to buy one. you must do 2930 cam fakes, 2934083 hours ewhoring and 301 ponzi schemes, get cracking!

GregE

And yet she was living in that house with no running water. What does that tell you?

It tells me that she was too confused, maybe a bit senile, maybe more than a bit senile.

In any case, she clearly wasn't gaming the system and she deserved better.

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DWB

Shouldn't that be a choice each individual gets to make?

I don't see how not paying a utility should cause anyone to lose their home. The two are unrelated. That is like saying if you don't pay your internet bill, the internet company will come to your house and confiscate all of your computers. That wouldn't be right, would it?

If you don't want to pay an electric bill, then it should be your choice to install an alternative form of power. Or use none at all and live by candle light and batteries. Your choice.

If you don't want to pay a water / sewer bill, don't. Or drill a well and use compost toilets. Your choice.

You don't have to be online or use a phone.

The ONLY thing anyone in the USA has to do, is pay property tax and keep up on their mortgage if their home is not paid for. Everything else should be a choice.

If I don't pay my utility bills here, they just turn them off. That's it. That's how it has worked throughout history, even in the USA, until now.


Exactly. You don't pay the bill, they turn it off. It should end there.

So then you go into collections for an unpaid utility bill. You go to court, they make you work out a payment plan or garnish your wages, or maybe even settle the payment for a percentage if you can prove you have fallen on hard times, or in some cases where you can prove you simply don't have the money, dismiss the bill. But you should never, ever lose your home over it.

Now, if this lady was behind on her property taxes for a year or two, this would be a different story. However, I still think property taxes are BS. What that means is none of you are really land owners. You are all just really renting the land from your masters. If you are a true land owner, you would not lose your land if you didn't pay tax on it. But since that will never happen in the USA, at the very least, there should be a point where you no longer have to pay taxes on it. Perhaps after 10 years of paying taxes, you're in the clear. Or maybe you pay taxes for as long as you pay a mortgage. Once the mortgage is paid, you own it free and clear, no taxes, you can never lose that land to anyone. Otherwise, it's not yours and it never was. You've been duped, again.


Your city going broke is not due to anything YOU did. It is because they can not manage the city's finances. It is their fault, but you are paying for it, just as you are paying for the greed of your government, and your children will continue to pay for that greed long after you are dead and turned to dust.


I don't bitch about how they provide less. I don't depend on anyone, expect them to help me, or beg for assistance. I'm on my own and I like it. Americans live on crutches. I prefer to stand on my own two feet.

If that is true, you guys are truly fucked and things are much worse than previously thought.

They would hang a lot of people, and rightfully so.

It's not much better, but I read the entire story on CNN, where they say it was a sewer bill.


Good luck with all that. I'm guessing you're not even allowed to drill your own water well where most of you live.

Water well, solar power, compost toilets, screw them.


Yep. The fun is just getting started.

Yep. Best decision I've ever made.

I found a solution, and it was moving. Now I own something, free and clear, no property tax, and if I don't want to pay for a utility, they just shut it off. That is how it's supposed to work.

peterk

i don't begin to know why she chose to not pay the bill, it would just be pure speculation on anyone's part. everyone is trying to make excuses for her, not having the means to pay is for sure not a valid excuse. how do you even know she was still living there?

wehateporn

That last post of yours was top notch DWB

https://gfy.com/showpost.php?p=19063650&postcount=148

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peterk

you do have the choice to use or not use the utilities.

in this situation it sounds like the county was running the sewerage company, a government entity. while that might not satisfy you, it is different from a private company and what their recourse is for uncollected debts.


again you can do this if you want to. but instead she chose to use a service then not pay for it.

that is how it works here too, but since it sounds like the sewerage company was run by the county they have greater recourse to collect than a private company does. they must be able to send you into collections, then lien your property, then force a sale. a private company stops at liening your property.



property tax is not bs, property tax is where most of the money is collected by the county for the police and fire department, schools, among many other things. if you stop collecting property taxes they would have to increase something else to make up for it. i don't think they would just shut down the schools and fire department so people wouldn't have to pay their property tax any more. having a mortgage should have noting to do with property taxes. some states give people exemptions on property taxes if the value of their home is low, so they don't have to pay any property taxes.

when you buy an item at the store and you pay taxes are you being owned by the man?

when you get your paycheck and a lot of money is missing are you getting duped by the man?

Property Taxes
Taxes on land and the buildings on it are the biggest source of revenue for local governments. They are not imposed by states but by the tens of thousands of cities, townships, counties, school districts and other assessing jurisdictions.

The state’s role is to specify the maximum rate on the market value of the property, or a percentage of it, as the legal standard for the local assessors to follow. The local assessor determines the value to be taxed. You can’t escape property taxes in any state. But you can find significantly low rates in certain parts of the country.

Most states give residents over a certain age a break on their property taxes. With some taxes, you’ll need a relatively low income to qualify. Forty states provide either property tax credits or homestead exemptions that limit the value of assessed property subject to tax.

There may be other tax breaks available, depending on where you live. All 50 states offer some type of property tax relief program, such as freezes that will lock in the assessed value of your property once you reach a certain age, or deferral of taxes until the homeowner moves or dies. They ultimately have to be paid. In addition, counties and municipalities often have their own property tax relief plans.

Retirees with low incomes and high housing costs may face property tax bills that are higher than they can manage. Some states target property tax relief to those homeowners bearing the greatest burden. Property tax reform that takes into account a homeowner’s ability to pay, such as a so-called “property tax circuit breaker,” can better protect low-income homeowners from rising property taxes that accompany rising property values. Targeted property tax relief avoids sharp reductions in funding for locally provided public services and inequities based solely on date of purchase.

■A property tax circuit breaker prevents property taxes from “overloading” a taxpayer. Under a typical circuit breaker, the state sets a maximum percentage of income that an eligible family can be expected to pay in property taxes. If property taxes exceed this limit, the state then provides a rebate or credit to the taxpayer.
■Currently, of the 31 states and the District of Columbia with circuit breakers for homeowners, only six and the District of Columbia permit all households to participate in the program without regard to age.
Other property tax relief strategies that may be used to target property tax relief include homestead exemptions which exempt a certain amount of a home’s value from taxation, credits to rebate a certain percentage of taxes paid, and deferral programs to allow low-income elderly homeowners to defer payment of property taxes until property is sold.

peterk

that method works well in third world countries. how is your roads, schools, fire deportment, police there? you get what you pay for. the government in your area could also take away your land at any time for any reason they could make up.