raymor

Today's decision on Obamacare comes down to this:

It would be unconstitutional to make people buy health insurance.
However, Washington can penalize you for doing or not doing anything they want, if they call the penalty a "tax".
It doesn't matter if the "tax" effectively forces an unconstitional result (ie forcing you to buy Obama approved insurance).

Under this new precedent, that Washington can do whatever it wants as long as they call it a tax, when pro-life politicians are elected, they can put a huge tax on abortions. BANNING abortion would be unconstitutional, but they can tax whatever they want, the court decided. So bam - $50,000 tax on abortion as soon as the pro-lifers have a majority in Congress and it'll be consitutional, thanks to today's decision.

Extreme religious nut politicians can't ban homosexuality, but they can now put a $40,000 tax on it.

Way to go, liberals. I never understood why you guys think you can keep expanding the nanny state and it's only going to be your guy weilding the new power in ways you like. By giving the feds carte blanche to control our lives, you just gave the next George W Bush the same power.

I can't wait to see the looks on your faces in 2020 when you realize Sarah Palin is making all your decisions for you because you gave up your freedom in 2012. What you're really celebrating today is that you just gave president Palin the power to effectively ban a your hippy supplements and accupressure nonsense when she's in office.

epitome

DWB

How does this play out for expats? I have not been following it.

Can't imagine they could force expats to have insurance that probably isn't going to be acknowledged abroad in the majority of hospitals. But then again, it is the US government.

Tijuana_Tom

What happens when someone doesn't have health care and they need immediate treatment?

The tax payer often gets stuck paying for it or the person ends up in debt.

Obama is trying to make health care more accessible and better for everyone not just the rich.

$100 a year tax.

Your comparison is retarded.

galleryseek

It's a little shallow to consider this a right vs. left issue. Let's pull our heads out of our asses for a second and realize that this would have happened regardless of of whether or not an (R) or (D) was in office right now. Just look at the patriot act under Bush Jr. and the NDAA under Obama. There's not a single fucking difference between these puppet presidents, those who pull the strings pull will have it their way regardless who the current POTUS is.

Tijuana_Tom

BTW, They already tax everything.

Sly

I haven't really been paying attention.

What happens if I don't purchase the insurance, I pay the penalty, and I need medical assistance? Who pays for that?

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Bladewire

Now in America EVERYTHING is politicized. Divide and conquer. They are getting what they want

ruff

Raymor, Politics is not your forte. You should stick to what you know. Your rant is hysterical.

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RobertRK

You would buy insurance at the point you needed the medical assistance, because the insurance companies are not allowed to turn you away. The individual mandate is in place so that you don't just wait until you are sick to buy insurance, which would make the whole thing more expensive for everyone. They need healthy people to be insured in order for this all to financially work.

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directfiesta

I don`t know where and how they come up with so ridiculous schemes ...

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smutnut

I am going to catch cancer this year just cause of ObamACARE

raymor

A hundred dollars a year? Try again.

Obama is trying to ... make you do something he thinks is good. Something the court ruled would be unconstitional for him to do, but he can do anything he wants if he calls it a tax.

Palin or some other idiot will try to make you do something she thinks is good, something unconstitutional, and the court just ruled she can make you do anything she wants, she just has to call it a tax.

The constitution lists the few things the feds are allowed to fo, and says they can't do anything else. (Like telling you what you must read or what you can't read.) Today's decision blows that out of the water, saying a president - president Obama or president Palin - can "tax" you for not doing whatever they want. Palin can't force you to read the Bible, but she can now tax you for not reading it.

Tijuana_Tom

For the insurance company to stay in business they need to be taking in more than they are paying out.

*duh*

galleryseek

Yes. In other words, they've given the green light on state sponsored theft of citizens in order for it all to financially work (unless of course you're the one they're stealing from).

BlackCrayon

its all a fuck job more or less but to think that republicans would do any better is laughable. yes, let the "free market" regulate itself to the point of destroying the economy but you can't get married if you're gay, oral and anal sex is illegal, and pot smokers should be locked up for life. how is that not being the 'nanny state'?

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galleryseek

You're right and wrong.

You're right in the fact that republicans wouldn't do any better. Republicans are democrats, vise versa.

You're wrong about the free market being to blame for the housing bubble. We haven't had a free market in a very long time. The federal reserve tampering with interest rates is what created the environment that made the housing bubble possible. The bankers were simply drinking the alcohol that the fed was pouring.

Sly

So I get sick, buy a month of insurance, get healthy, then drop out again? With a $700 a year penalty and a one-month stint of paying for insurance? that is way cheaper than it would cost me to buy insurance year-round. Actually, that's pretty much cheaper for everyone.

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theking

President Obama cannot do "anything he wants". The President did not write the law...Congress did...and it was not written the way the President would have preferred. A President cannot make "law"...only Congress can make law...and the law that they make can be vetoed by the President and/or knocked down or modified by the Supreme Court as under our system it is the Supreme Court that decides if a law is constitutional or not.

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Tijuana_Tom

How come nobody fought mandatory Car insurance this hard? You go to JAIL for not having car insurance, lol.

galleryseek

It's not cheaper for those who don't purchase health insurance at all. You can make the claim that they're stupid and that's not responsible, but it's really not your body or your decision to make.

theking

You are ignorant about car insurance.

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Bladewire

Anyone who thinks the insurance companies didn't win is not playing with a full deck.

raymor

And that's my point. The decision says politicians, including republican politicians, can now violate your constitutional rights, so long as they call it a tax. Until today, gay marriage (and health insurance) were STATE issues. Today's ruling means the feds can now tax blow jobs and marriages. I don't know how anyone thinks that's a good idea.

madm1k3

did you read the entire ruling or are you just going by what Fox news said?

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smutnut

Who cares? YOu will now have a new walk through on your on line taxes LOL

Tijuana_Tom

Do you know much the average business with 50+ employees earns a year?

You want them to not have to subsidize their employees benefits?

Ok, LOL.

what?

Themoron

baddog

Idiot, pay attention to whatever you have a clue about. The USA is not anything you know about.

Fucking idiot. Car insurance is to protect the other guy. Health insurance is forcing me to protect me. See the difference?

Doubtful.

Tijuana_Tom

Wow. My mind is blown.

Car insurance protects you as much as anyone else.

I'm from California numbnutts.

BlackCrayon

Sure but when no insurance joe has a heart attack in the street and is unemployed or whatever and ambulance comes takes him to hospital, who is going to cover the bill? no insurance joe will never pay, he'll just avoid it and taxpayers will end up being on the hook. isn't that how it works now?

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smutnut

And you are forced to pay for car insurance which is a complete violation as far as I am concerned. What if you never have an accident ever?, but you will always go to a doctor sooner or later

Tijuana_Tom

This whole thing is about.

"WE ARE AMERICAN! WE WANT OUR FREEDOM! THIS TAKES AWAY OUR FREEDOM! I CAN'T AFFORD HEALTH CARE DON'T FORCE ME TO BUY IT! IF I GET SICK I WILL SUFFER THE CONSEQUENCES AND YOU WILL HELP ME OUT! BUT UNTIL THEN IT IS UN AMERICAN TO MAKE ME PAY FOR HEALTH INSURANCE."

It's bullshit. You have no freedom.

Bladewire

Proof or ban

smutnut

So i should pay for you motherfucker and you should even participate? pay your crummy 1 percent on your taxes if you are that poor you will pay less than welfare that gets it for free

raymor

A) Insuring your car isn't mandatory. You can choose not to insure your car. You're thinking of LIABILTY coverage, which covers the victim if I run you over. Liability coverage, protecting you from me, is also not mandatory. I can choose to risk MY health. That's different from me choosing to risk YOUR health.

b) Liabilty coverage is not mandatory. Only IF I decide to put you at risk with my driving, I need to show that I can be responsible for any accidents I cause. I can choose to do that using insurance, proof of sufficient assets, a cash bond, or other ways. I just have to prove that I can take care of any accidents I cause, or I can choose to take the subway instead.

c) STATES have the constitutional authority to have me sure proof of financial responsibility if I want them to give me a license. The court agreed today that under tne enumerated powers it's unconsititutional for the FEDS to require you to buy insurance for yourself. The constitution doesn't give them that power. (But the court allowed them to skirt the constitition by calling it a tax.)

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smutnut

This is a lie. You cannot leave a lot with a car if you dont have at least temporary insurance so again, more bullshit in most states

Poor people who can't afford a car talking crap

epitome

How come there isn't an uproar about Medicare? You are taxed for that the moment you start working and aren't even typically eligible until 64.

raymor

Obviously both congress and the president have input into law. Traditionally, major laws lime this are submitted by the president, then amended and passed by Congress. But okay, let's play fifth grade government class. SENATOR Palin. The ruling says that the even when it would be unconstitutional the feds to require that you do something, they can go ahead and require it anyway by calling the requirement a tax. Do you feel better if it's SENATOR Palin who is no longer restrained by the constitution?

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smutnut

because people using medicare are against socialized medicine LOL

raymor

Your bank will want their collateral insured if you can't afford to buy the car and have to borrow their money for it. Insurance on the car is between you and the people paying for the car. Washington politicians have nothing to do with it.

kane

This is only technically correct, but not very accurate.

You can self-insure your car, but in order to do so you have to go to deposit cash into securities in the amount equal to the state you live in's minimum liability coverage requirements. Once you have done so the DMV will give you a letter that explains you are self-insured and if their is a claim against you the money can come from the deposited amount.

So while actually owning auto insurance isn't mandatory having proof that you meet the minimum coverage liabilities is.

I believe all states require that you carry proof of this minimum liability coverage on you or they can fine you and possibly even tow your car.

Bladewire

Voodoo

If you can't afford Health Insurance, you will have to pay a penalty.

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epitome

In the State of Florida you must carry car insurance if your car is tagged and/or on the road.

You were right that it has nothing to do with Washington politicians as car insurance is something left for the states.

epitome

It wasn't meant to be that way, but from what I understand since the Medicaid part was ruled out, it may be. There were supposed to be options for low income people, but without reading the judgment, with Medicaid being knocked out of the bill I cannot imagine what those options are other than buying insurance.

IllTestYourGirls

There are people making 60k a year that can not afford their homes. Now they are expected to buy health insurance or pay a tax. A lot of people are getting screwed and it is mostly the self employed and middle class.

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Overload

being german i really dont get what fuss this is to US folks ... here, you are insured - NO MATTER WHAT INCOME - even if unemployed, 100% handycapped or whatever - fuck, even if you are an illegal alien you will receive medical care ... and hey, it works! it aint too expensive to have a (relatively) healthy popupaltion and ... oh Christianity - what was that bla about loving yer next like yerself?! i would hate myself for living in a country that refuses help for the ones in need - but oh fuck, the US is solely based on profit and greed health care for all works in all european countries - why should america be unable to compete?!

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epitome

Most people making $60k a year have employer provided health insurance so they're fine. Lots of self-employed people had few to no insurance options in the past (especially if they had even the smallest thing wrong with them) so they are good to go now.

Will there be some people hurting? Yes? Will there be some people better off? Yes.

Part of being able to get the sick insured is to get more people into insurance to balance out the risk. That includes getting healthy people in so they can invest that money and grow their claims reserve.

The people that say "I'll never get sick" are lying. The one's that say "I'll deal with my hospital bills" are mostly lying if they're middle class. They're not going to have a heart attack and refuse treatment. We know that's bullshit. They're going to go to the ER and get treatment and based on the number and amount of hospital bills not being paid these days there is a chance they will never pay it.

In the past hospitals could appeal to the states for aid to cover bills that remain unpaid. Guess how states paid for that? Taxes. Taxes that everyone had to pay.

At least now it will be the person refusing to get health insurance that will be paying the tax rather than all of the other taxpayers.

smutnut

Don't mess with my social medicare cause i don't want to be considered a socialist!