Brujah

(beating Mr Fiction to the post!)

Patriot Act: The Sequel

"It would allow intelligence surveillance in certain circumstances even when the government could not produce any evidence of a crime. It also would allow certain snooping with no court authorization, not only -- as now -- when Congress declared war but when it authorized force or when the country was attacked."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...2003Feb11.html

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Joe Sixpack

Sounds like a police state to me.

Mr.Fiction

How can this be? Rush told me that republicans are for less government!

Next thing you know, you're going to tell me that Bush is less fiscally responsible than that communist liberal, Bill Clinton!

kenny

Wasnt that passed by congress right after the 911 attacks? I think it was designed to help catch those silly terrorist. I remember there was some debate reguarding it. But the way I see it, if you dont break laws then you have nothing to worry about.

Joe Sixpack

Where are all the gun nuts screaming about the erosion of constitutionally guaranteed rights and freedoms? They scream about it loudly enough when someone says gun control.

This Patriot Act seems to be saying nobody in the US has a right to any sort of privacy anymore if the relevent authorities THINK somebody may be doing something illegal.

Joe Sixpack

"It would allow intelligence surveillance in certain circumstances even when the government could not produce any evidence of a crime."

kenny

They can surveillance me taking my morning shit right now if they like. If your not doing anything wrong they are not going to fuck with you. But I see what your saying in theory they can spy on people for no lawfull reason.

ControlThy

Wrong - read the article, it clearly states the authorities can take action without any solid evidence.




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ControlThy

Well I'd like to use the toilet with full privacy and not have some horny policeman taking a peek.



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evie

Just try to ban guns and see what happens, there will be riots in the streets.

What you also have to remember is Bush is intent on going to war because he THINKS Iraq is a threat to the US.

As for the so called freedom Americans enjoy, Eva and I watched "The Way We Were" last night. Had an interesting part of it about the Macarthy trials and the Anti American tribunals.

Freedom of speech usually means the right to say what is accepted.

ControlThy

Charly,

Looks like you logged in with the wrong account?




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LiveDose

Americans have been clear about willing to sacrifice certain rights for security. Hence initial changes in airport screening. You're not going to catch this muslim extremist vermin with our existing laws. Unlike many around the world not all Americans are paranoid of or fear their government. Should we be cautious? Of course but new tactics must be tried and tested. If the system becomes abused it will be brought to light. And should be dealt with. I would much rather have this than have a bunch of towel heads blowing up buses and buildings. FUCK THAT!

We can't just sit back anymore and wait to get hit. How long is it going to take some of you to realise that?

On another note, I can't wait for the fuckin' bombs to start dropping... It will be funny hearing everyone bitch about the agressive US. I can't wait....

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Joe Sixpack

So what happened to 'land of the free'?

Is it as irrelevant now as 'home of the brave'?

kenny

"A government DNA database for terrorists and suspected terrorists could be useful, though it would need refinement to protect suspects who are proved innocent. Another useful proposal would allow the special appeals court that reviews government surveillance requests in national security cases to appoint lawyers to argue against the government. Under current law, it hears only from one side. The draft would create a federal crime for terrorist hoaxes, which now must be prosecuted under provisions designed for other purposes."

I think they are planning to add a little flavor to protect agaisnt unlawfull surveillance

LiveDose

So funny to hear someone from the Czech Republic saying that. The US at least has never been under communist control. Typical European arrogance...

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LiveDose

You would never understand.

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kenny

I havent put my contacts in, so I might of misread something. Question to the foreigners, why in the hell are you so worried about american law? I dont give a fuck about laws in China.

Joe Sixpack

Ahhhh... the inevitable.

I'm interested because I'm not a narrow individual who's only interested in the affairs of my own country.

LiveDose

lame response.

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Joe Sixpack

"Those who desire to give up freedom in order to gain security will not have,
nor do they deserve, either one."
~President Thomas Jefferson.

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety
deserve neither liberty nor safety."
~Benjamin Franklin

Joe Sixpack

What would you prefer?

kenny

I am by no means a narrow individual. However I admit alot of other counties dont seem to have much going on and are rather boring.

Joe Sixpack

Could it be that you don't hear much about other countries on your news because your nation is obsessed with itself?

12clicks

you mean like the snivelling aussie gun ban?

http://www.newsmax.com/articles/?a=2000/6/26/12629

""" In Australia today, police can enter your house and search for guns, copy the hard drive of your computer, seize records, and do it all without a search warrant. It's the law that police can go door to door searching for weapons that have not been surrendered in their much publicized gun buy-back program. They have been using previous registration and firearm license lists to check for lapses and confiscate non-surrendered firearms."""
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I'd be more worried about my own house. Funny we don't hear a peep out of you over this.

You're WAY more concerned with twisting the facts of American laws.

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LiveDose

I think your political comments go beyond multi cultural/country interest. They seem to gravitate towards a strange obsession and hatred for the US. You are of course entitled to your opinions.

Ben Franklin's comments while still as poetic would be a little changed were he living in 2003. It was a different world back then.

On music however we do agree.

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kenny

As long as they dont force me to give up my guns I am happy...

LiveDose

nice 12 clicks, nice.

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12clicks

Livedose, I think your custom title should read "An Dennnnn?"

shouldn't it?

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evie

I know. Eva has been on my computer again and now the site will not let me log out....

Joe Sixpack

Rather than quote an out-of-date article about the gun buy back scheme from quite a few years ago you should actually quote some current legislation.

"News"max is a nice little right-wing propaganda site.

kenny

12Clicks beat me to it. I couldnt find a reliable news source fast enough.
I seriously like guns. I have a AK47 assault rifle, a SKS nice one with a russian slant break and fold in stock. And a couple of pistols. I would be pissed if the US said I had to cough up my weapons. How do the people there think of their weapons being taken?

12clicks

Translation: if I call it old news and from a right wing source, I can pretend it didn't happen.

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It's very easy to dig up a bunch of shit about australia but, really, who's interested?
pissants who always try to tear down their betters are much more amusing to watch.

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kenny

Did they stop taking the guns from you guys? I am happy for you guys if they did stop. Every man deserves the right to defend himself and family with arms.

12clicks

"""Twelve months after the law was implemented in 1997, there has been a 44 percent increase in armed robberies, an 8.6 percent increase in aggravated assaults, and a 3.2 percent increase in homicides. That same year in the state of Victoria, there was a 300 percent increase in homicides committed with firearms. The following year, robberies increased almost 60 percent in South Australia. By 1999, assaults had increased in New South Wales by almost 20 percent.

Two years after the ban, there have been further increases in crime: armed robberies by 73 percent; unarmed robberies by 28 percent; kidnappings by 38 percent; assaults by 17 percent; manslaughter by 29 percent, according to the Australian Bureau of Statistics."""
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I'm guessing his interest in America comes from him looking for a safer place to live.

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Joe Sixpack

Hahahaha... went to your little right-wing "news" source typed in "Australia freedom" in the search box and cut and pasted whatever you could use.

Sad.

Paul Markham

No you were under British control, you fought for indendence and won it.

The Czechs were under firstly Nazi control, then sold out by Roosevelt at the Potsdam conference. Much to Churchills annoyance.

They rebelled in 68 and were crushed.

Typical American ignorance.

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LiveDose

HAHA hey man thanks. I did that after 10 beers and I was trying to get the sound from brain to keyboard. Much better this way.

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kenny

Back to the issue at hand. I think the Patriot Act was passed in a hurry during a tense state post 911. I believe they are looking to mold it so certain conditions are meant first.

12clicks

oh shit! A left wing source:
http://www.ojr.org/ojr/glaser/1039714397.php
australia is attacking internet free speach.

Joe, I understand your fixation with the US now. Your homeland sucks.

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Joe Sixpack

Now THAT is a joke!

http://www.csmonitor.com/atcsmonitor...ries/guns.html

"According to Williams, there were just 0.28 firearms-related homicides for every 100,000 people in Australia in 1998, compared with about 4 for every 100,000 in the US."

Joe Sixpack

That's a libel case you moron.

Back to Newsmax and Google now to look for something else.

kenny

I bet you guys are forced to kill with sticks then, huh?

gothweb

This is scary shit. I wonder what the US will be like, if I ever come back home long-term? As it is, it seemed like a very different place when I was there for the holidays.

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LiveDose

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Joe Sixpack

I have a pick handle near my front door.

Never had to use it.

LiveDose

Kenny, they use government issued magnets as throwing stars...lol

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12clicks

no its not moron. or is the truth called libal down there too?

Is this newsmax? I'm not sure. fill us in joey:
http://www.wsws.org/articles/1999/sep1999/juv-s07.shtml

Australia stomps on childrens rights?
""". The violations include curtailing the right to free assembly, discriminating against youth who have committed no crime, increasing the time of detention before being charged and strengthening the rights of police to strip search."""
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strip searching children Joe? You support governmental pedophilia? sad.


"""A report entitled Youth Street Rights?A Policy and Legislation Review has found that a number of the laws also breach Articles contained in the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child""""

Joey, the whole world is against you! It's children Joey!!!!

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Joe Sixpack

Now you're quoting from the socialists!

You really are a moron.

Nowhere in that article does it say ANYTHING about strip searching children.

Here is the whole paragraph.

"The Carr Labor Party government in New South Wales has introduced legislation over the past five years that violates basic democratic and human rights, particularly those of children and young people. The violations include curtailing the right to free assembly, discriminating against youth who have committed no crime, increasing the time of detention before being charged and strengthening the rights of police to strip search."

Need to misquote and misrepresent to make an argument.

Pathetic.

12clicks

Joey, is this right wing propaganda?

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2002/feb2002/law-f15.shtml

""""One piece of legislation will significantly expand the powers of ASIO, the domestic political police, including giving its officers, for the first time, the authority to detain anyone for interrogation without charge for 48 hours. In addition, ?terrorism? will be re-defined to cover a range of dissenting political activity""""

Holy shit joe!!!!! you have "political" police? when did you guys go commie?

terrorism is "dissenting political activity'?????

Joey, joey, joey. I'f I were you, I wouldn't talk about my homeland or anyone elses.

ahahahahahahahahahaha

(this concludes todays lesson on badmouthing the US)

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kenny

Well atleast it isnt as bad as Iraq. Or Singapore. While it would such to have my guns taken, it would be worse to have my tounge cut out for speaking agaisnt my dictator. Or get whipped with a cane or executed for giving my buddy a joint.