USA:)


50.

They are discussing "non-lethal" riot control agents.

Far different than mustard gas, cyanide etc...don't hype things to try to prove your point it makes your argument seem less valid even if you do have a point.

http://serendipity.magnet.ch/cia/cia_time.htm

Are you going to tell me that all this is NOT true????

I know you wont even read it, but for others:

1947: Greece
President Truman requests military aid to Greece to support right-wing forces fighting communist rebels. For the rest of the Cold War, Washington and the CIA will back notorious Greek leaders with deplorable human rights records.

CIA created
President Truman signs the National Security Act of 1947, creating the Central Intelligence Agency and National Security Council. The CIA is accountable to the president through the NSC -there is no democratic or congressional oversight. Its charter allows the CIA to "perform such other functions and duties as the National Security Council may from time to time direct." This loophole opens the door to covert action and dirty tricks.

1948: Covert-action wing created
The CIA recreates a covert action wing, innocuously called the Office of Policy Coordination, led by Wall Street lawyer Frank Wisner. According to its secret charter, its responsibilities include "propaganda, economic warfare, preventive direct action, including sabotage, anti-sabotage, demolition and evacuation procedures; subversion against hostile states, including assistance to underground resistance groups, and support of indigenous anti-communist elements in threatened countries of the free world."

Italy
The CIA corrupts democratic elections in Italy, where Italian communists threaten to win the elections. The CIA buys votes, broadcasts propaganda, threatens and beats up opposition leaders, and infiltrates and disrupts their organizations. It works ? the communists are defeated.

1949: Radio Free Europe
The CIA creates its first major propaganda outlet, Radio Free Europe. Over the next several decades, its broadcasts are so blatantly false that for a time it is considered illegal to publish transcripts of them in the U.S.

Late 40?s: Operation MOCKINGBIRD
The CIA begins recruiting American news organizations and journalists to become spies and disseminators of propaganda. Frank Wisner, Allan Dulles, Richard Helms and Philip Graham head the effort. Graham is publisher of The Washington Post, which becomes a major CIA player. Eventually, the CIA's media assets will include ABC, NBC, CBS, Time, Newsweek, Associated Press, United Press International, Reuters, Hearst Newspapers, Scripps-Howard, Copley News Service and more. By the CIA's own admission, at least 25 organizations and 400 journalists will become CIA assets.

1953: Iran
CIA overthrows the democratically elected Mohammed Mossadegh in a military coup, after he threatened to nationalize British oil. The CIA replaces him with a dictator, the Shah of Iran, whose secret police, SAVAK, is as brutal as the Gestapo.

Operation MK-ULTRA
Inspired by North Korea's brainwashing program, the CIA begins experiments on mind control. The most notorious part of this project involves giving LSD and other drugs to American subjects without their knowledge or against their will, causing several to commit suicide. However, the operation involves far more than this. Funded in part by the Rockefeller and Ford foundations, research includes propaganda, brainwashing, public relations, advertising, hypnosis, and other forms of suggestion.

1954: Guatemala
CIA overthrows the democratically elected Jacob Arbenz in a military coup. Arbenz has threatened to nationalize the Rockefeller-owned United Fruit Company, in which CIA Director Allen Dulles also owns stock. Arbenz is replaced with a series of right-wing dictators whose bloodthirsty policies will kill over 100,000 Guatemalans in the next 40 years.

1954-1958: North Vietnam
CIA officer Edward Lansdale spends four years trying to overthrow the communist government of North Vietnam, using all the usual dirty tricks. The CIA also attempts to legitimize a tyrannical puppet regime in South Vietnam, headed by Ngo Dinh Diem. These efforts fail to win the hearts and minds of the South Vietnamese because the Diem government is opposed to true democracy, land reform and poverty reduction measures. The CIA's continuing failure results in escalating American intervention and finally the Vietnam War.

1956: Hungary
Radio Free Europe incites Hungary to revolt by broadcasting Khruschev's Secret Speech, in which he denounced Stalin. It also hints that American aid will help the Hungarians fight. This aid fails to materialize as Hungarians launch a doomed armed revolt, which only invites a major Soviet invasion. The conflict kills 7,000 Soviets and 30,000 Hungarians.

1957-1973: Laos
The CIA carries out approximately one coup per year trying to nullify Laos' democratic elections. The problem is the Pathet Lao, a leftist group with enough popular support to be a member of any coalition government. In the late 50s, the CIA even creates an "Army Clandestine" of Asian mercenaries to attack the Pathet Lao. After the CIA's army suffers numerous defeats, the U.S. starts bombing, dropping more bombs on Laos than all the U.S. bombs dropped in World War II. A quarter of all Laotians will eventually become refugees, many living in caves.

1959: Haiti
The U.S. military helps "Papa Doc" Duvalier become dictator of Haiti. He creates his own private police force, the "Tonton Macoutes," who terrorize the population with machetes. They will kill over 100,000 during the Duvalier family reign. The U.S. does not protest their dismal human rights record.

1961: The Bay of Pigs
The CIA sends 1,500 Cuban exiles to invade Castro's Cuba. But "Operation Mongoose" fails, due to poor planning, security and backing. The planners had imagined that the invasion would spark a popular uprising against Castro ? which never happens. A promised American air strike also never occurs. This is the CIA's first public setback, causing President Kennedy to fire CIA Director Allen Dulles.

Dominican Republic
The CIA assassinates Rafael Trujillo, a murderous dictator Washington has supported since 1930. Trujillo's business interests have grown so large (about 60 percent of the economy) that they have begun competing with American business interests.

Ecuador
The CIA-backed military forces the democratically elected President Jose Velasco to resign. Vice President Carlos Arosemana replaces him; the CIA fills the now vacant vice presidency with its own man.

Congo (Zaire)
The CIA assassinates the democratically elected Patrice Lumumba. However, public support for Lumumba's politics runs so high that the CIA cannot clearly install his opponents in power. Four years of political turmoil follow.

hehe, I watch crossfire from time to time... democrats are not much different then cnn, abc.. They also say what the americans want to hear... THey fear to be seen as unpatriotic...
Their views is now pretty close to the republicans...
JUst listen to Josepg Lieberman for exemple...

YOU

Maybe because Americans kill more Americans each year than Saddam ever has and ever will? Just a thought though...


ME


You implied all Americans that killed versus one Saddam that killed 18,000 (own people)+ 2,000 on 9/11 (aiding and abetting to terrorists).


Protect Saddam and stand beside him, let the first bomb land on you and brother Saddam Insane.

Even the State of Union address: democrats applauding Bush....
Wont happen in the Commons here.

This issue with Iraq is about a threat to national security. Read a newspaper watch the news. Believe me the media companies are a buisness of their own, they are not linked together with the goverment to brain wash the world as a decoy of some vast top secert plan. If the US intentions where to obtain the oil, then they would of done it the first time. Iraq was ordered to disarm 12 years ago. Its like being on probation and violating the terms. You get punished. Rules and laws have to be enforced. You can add a bunch of flavor and make it into some complex conspricay or you can go by what is documented and reported. Everyone has the choice I chose the most logical version.

Fuck!!!!! I didn't know Sadam did 9/11 . I tought it was the guy that Bush hasn't spoken his name since July... euhhhh Osama something....

No of course not...we just want the burger like everyone else...and don't want to know how the cow was killed...just like everyone else.

I love when people think that a coal miner in virginia should care less about his kids and more about politics than a dirt farmer in Afghanistan.

Most people in this world only really get involved when it directly affects them...other than that they just want to know their kids are safe, and that tomorrow they'll still have a job to go to.

They also don't realize how they could effect their world if they did get involved, but those same people who are living day to day don't have the luxury of time to sit around and argue this bullshit on a bbs, let alone start a grass roots campaign.

I can't hold that against them, and neither should anyone else.

Doesn't Israel have as many UN violations??? When is it going to be enforced????

Saddam , terrorism linked to that ass, enough said!!!

First of all, if English is your native language, you should really put a bit more effort into learning how to properly use it.
Secondly, I implied that Americans kill more Americans than Saddam ever has and ever will. Now, Saddam is linked to the death of a few dozen Americans, while Americans are linked to the death of many thousands of Americans. Both are facts.

Now, besides that, saying Iraq is responsible for 9/11 is more than ridiculous. However, even if you would count 9/11 as Killings by Saddam, my point still holds.

Your stupidity is really remarkable.

You said it, so it must be true... Just like Bush today: Sadam is using his people as shields????

Where the fuck do you and him get that. Still no back up to your big stinking mouth.. LINK!!!!!! URL !!!!!

I watch mainstream news all the time and have never heard any news person say or even imply Iraq was behind 9/11.

This matter is reguarding Iraq not Israel. Stop trying to evade the issue by pointing a finger and saying "but they did it to". Every situation has a different approach.

#1 Attacking someone's spelling and vocabulary is the first sign of a weak argument.

#2 What does the American on American crime have to do with Saddam and Iraq?

I don't see the correlation or how that's supposed to deter our government from going to war.

Today, your President during a speech to the " Christian Association of Broadcasters".....

#1 - I had to read his post 4 times before finally figuring out what he meant. While I do not mind people posting in bad English, I do mind people posting in barely readable English.

#2 - Look at the post to which I first replied. I do not link American crime to Saddam and Iraq, I was replying to a post that did.

Edit:
Minor suggestion: please follow the debate if you are going to comment on specific arguments.

#1 he said "news person."

#2 Kind of hard to compare Christian Broadcasters working for let's say Pat Robertson to your local news anchor.
Christians have their own agenda to push, and do so often. Just watch Pat Robertson's show and it will amaze you what they will say in their newscast. Not only will they announce an event, but they will some how tie it into some biblical scripture or to some event we should be looking for before Armageddon hits.

Your own words:

"Rules and laws have to be enforced"


So , do they or not. Or is it only to certain people, not to others...

I am not "evading", quite the contrary. But you ....

You claim that IRAQ has not respected the UN resolutions... So my point is quite valid. Your answer tough is one of a kid caught peeing in his pants. :BangBang:

Didn't know Bush was a news reporter :1orglaugh

Can you read?

You are right, it wans't " news persons". Bush was adressing this association. I didn't say tough that the "Christian..." said anything ( in fact, they didn't, just applauded), but Bush did.

eroswebmaster, for your convenience:

It was a semi-serious reply of mine, to which JOH replied:

I believe the statement was that one of the posters had not seen the US news media stating that Iraq was behind the 9/11 attack. Your pal comes back with a statement that Bush must have made the remark to some Christian Coalition.

Did you fucking read??:321GFY

Your stupidity is really remarkable.



I would expect this from you, 9/11 means something when someone comprehends the full ramifications to all freedom loving people. Live with the reality you lost family on 9/11 and get back with me.

The truth will be that our government was either lying or telling the truth about it's motivations. I don't know for sure and neither do you.
The truth will also be that millions of Iraqis were freed from brutal oppression and lived better lives as a result. IMO that's all that really matters.

My life does not revolve around reading every single posted message on GFY. Regardless, you brought the issue up again on the 2nd page as if it alone had some sort of weight, not as if it were in response to a question on page 1.

I am francophone, so English is not my mother tongue. I get often attacked on language by "The King" ( would be nicer if it was The Kink ...) and "Fire".

It slips on me like water on oil.... I know they couldn't speak or write my langage ...

They would applaude anything with Bush. He is their poster child. Most people with a clue know better then to buy into the extreme right wing groups.

edit.: nevermind...

not MUST, he DID . Don't you see the progression: from Al Quaida to Iraq. Justifying the invasion. And by the way, Six Pack is not my Pal, nor my ennemy. I do not know him. Like his sig tough... relaxed!

Problem is most people don't have a clue.

If they did Pat Robertson, Robert Tilton, Benny Hinn etc..etc..etc.. wouldn't be rolling in the dough from selling "prayer cloths," and whatever idolotrous trinket that people believe can heal them.

I didn't see the speech in question so this is just a guess. My guess is Bush didn't say "Iraq is responsible for 9/11." More likely he said something about ties between Iraq and Al Qaeda.

Again I've never heard anyone say Saddam did 9/11. If a majority of Americans really do believe that then it's because their uninformed not misinformed by a media conspiracy.

Punkworld, no hard feelings man...I just usually scan the threads and pick something interesting to read quickly make a couple of responses and then get back to work :)

If you are going to comment on something, it is often wise to know what the discussion is about. Otherwise, chances are you'll miss the point. Works that way for everyone.

Regardless, I only brought the issue up again in response to what JOH said. I did not single it out in an on-topic reply, I only used it in the sub-debate at hand. Frankly, I do not think it is that important in this issue (not important at all actually), but when someone accuses me of misrepresenting facts I will reply.

I read it. I can also take facts and mold them into secert operations and put them on a webpage. If any of those operations did happen, I would like to know how the author obtained the classified information. Its fiction. Reminds me of the X-files or some other goverment conspiracy television program. Some people are really good at taking actual events and making a intersting story. Makes people think "It could of happened"

I personally don't think the media is pushing the 9/11-Iraq tie-in. BUt you know some people are lemmings. I know they didn't have a part in it as to say they helped plan it.

Look, Bush is on a campaign to get the public behind him. He needs that. I am sure he will us any method he can get away with. I don't agree with it, but not much I can do about it. But on the flip of this, Saddam is a lowlife.

Actually I think everyone is way off topic from wonton's original post.

No hard feelings here either :glugglug

If you have lost family on 9/11, you have my deepest sympathy. I agree that the ones responsible should be punished.

However, the fact that 9/11 happened does not mean Saddam was involved with it. Sure, he's an A-grade asshole, but Al Qaeda hates him, because he's not a "true" muslim according to them...

Very true, in fact wasn't Iraq very westernized before all the US sanctions??

This fly's against the whole muslim way.

Quote from Kenny:


"I read it. I can also take facts and mold them into secert operations and put them on a webpage. If any of those operations did happen, I would like to know how the author obtained the classified information. Its fiction. Reminds me of the X-files or some other goverment conspiracy television program. Some people are really good at taking actual events and making a intersting story. Makes people think "It could of happened"


Are you old enough to be on this board????

You are going to tell me that you doubt the implication of the CIA in the "bay of Pigs" operation.... you are KIDing ....

1961: The Bay of Pigs
The CIA sends 1,500 Cuban exiles to invade Castro's Cuba. But "Operation Mongoose" fails, due to poor planning, security and backing. The planners had imagined that the invasion would spark a popular uprising against Castro ? which never happens. A promised American air strike also never occurs. This is the CIA's first public setback, causing President Kennedy to fire CIA Director Allen Dulles.


How about Oliver North????

Iran/Contra Scandal
Although the details have long been known, the Iran/Contra scandal finally captures the media's attention in 1986. Congress holds hearings, and several key figures (like Oliver North) lie under oath to protect the intelligence community. CIA Director William Casey dies of brain cancer before Congress can question him. All reforms enacted by Congress after the scandal are purely cosmetic.



Look at the title of this thread!!!

You are now in my " igonre list" because you are " ignorant"

Yes ignorant to your ridiculous conspiracies.

Go write a screen play and title it: America "The Great Evil"

It's called history.

I am going down to your level ( a fucking free fall let me tell you that) : watching Joe Millionnaire.

PS: While I entertain myself with low life programs, watch an American Movie called "13 days" starring Kevin Kostner ( not Kamed Al Harim Tazan): it is AMERICAN and describes the actual events of the Bay of Pigs. Sorry, it is a serious movie, so no T&A and a lot of dialogs. It is probably again more fiction. In fact I think you are fiction.... me I am Friction.

GFY :BangBang:

Hey, do you beleive this "Kenny" guy . It's probably Barbie's Boyfriend ! lol

Ehm... most of these things are commonly accepted facts. They can be found in nearly every history book, and have also been in most American newspapers.

This country fought for freedoms and will not succumb to a dictators need for power and control, killing his citizens and further his ambitions(Kuwait and Iran). Warmongers needs will justify his motives to reach his disillutioned (sp) quest of being the almighty and will squash any freedoms known by some. Can you be free under a policy of control or have freedoms to speak and be a voice for change.

Freedoms are not a given , you must fight to hold these precious
ideals, some countries spent many lives to bring forth this change and the fight still goes on.

Fight,we must .for 9/11 was a calling card to wake-up once again!




Fight for freedom loving people!!!!

I am not doubting the entire post, but alot of it just isn't true. Even if it was how did the author obtain CIA secert information. They are theroies. It is obvious that we wouldnt agree. And it is also impossible to prove any of this.
You hold a good arguement towards your beliefs. Its all good bro.

:winkwink:

Please use this, you will be smarter!

http://www.allfist.com/images/duct.jpg