yes. nuclear waste disposal is already out of control. too much being manufactured and nowhere to safely put it. it's a ticking time bomb that could be worse than the nuke plants themselves.

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I second that, I have 2 diesel tractors, one a '59, and one a '63, neither of them fail to start when I throw the switch. Even if they have sat for a year or more. No electronics.. just pure mechanics, so very little to go wrong. I suspect most older cars will be around far longer than any of these electric vehicles.

Our days will never be numbered, we are just getting started. These are the days of manufactures producing Mustangs, Camaros, Corvettes, GT-Rs that can handle 7,8,900rwhp utilizing the stock longblock.

Enjoy taking the kids to school in your whisper quiet $70,000 sedan with a top speed of 130mph. I'll take a 800hp car screaming at 7,000rpms sideways damn near giving you old folks a heart attack everyday and twice on Sunday. :)

25K every ten years for solar, using utility company power when it's not so sunny. That's roughly double the cost of just buying electricity generated from natural gas, like I do. It also means I'm not dumping a bunch lead acid batteries every few years like you do with solar. I consider doubling the cost "expensive". Maybe you don't.


Pick either ONE of the above statements and it'll be partially true, depending on which location you choose. In sunny areas, solar produces less carbon emissions, but also arsenic, cadmium, etc., which aren't in gas. In less sunny areas, solar production creates roughly equal carbon emissions, side from.the toxins. So it's a reasonable choice in some areas. In many areas, it's an expensive, toxic option that lets you feel good if you choose to ignore the arsenic and lead.

this is what i consider the only viable alternative to gas - it just needs infrastructure to be build up - like one hydrogen station at least every 50 miles or so

but it's clean and with the right sized tank, 300-400 miles are no problem. and refueling is instant.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercedes-Benz_F-Cell

http://gigaom.com/cleantech/green-ov...fuel-cell-car/

That's my point: there is a good market for it. And there's more to the world than the USA. Lots of countries where the distances are quite short.

Well duh...but if you're telling me there's enough solar power to go around, think again.

I'm all for solar power(wind power not so much, ugly windmills) so I do hope that takes off and the efficiency grows a lot.
Just right now, it's not good enough.

Coal plants "clean as shit"? :1orglaugh
Nuclear waste "clean as shit"? :1orglaugh

Man, it must be nice down there in the sand :)

The science on nuclear waste is actually very interesting. There is dangerous waste and there is a lot of waste, but there's not a lot of dangerous waste. I wouldn't mind at all having most nuclear waste in my backyard. 90% of nuclear waste is what's called LLW, low level waste. It's less dangerous than your smoke detector. You get about a million times as much radiation taking a walk in the sun. You could eat a bowl of it and probably be fine. Not that I'd want to actually eat a bowl of it, but I did consider having a spoonful during a presentation to make the point. I'm less scared of that stuff than I am of a tanning bed.

That leaves some that's intermediate level and a few pounds of high level. High level is the dangerous stuff. You want to encase it in metal and bury it a couple hundred feet under the desert, or in a deep cave. Fortunately, there's so little of it, getting it well shielded and deeply buried isn't really a problem.

So you have one kind that's not a problem because it's very low level - much, much less radiation than the sun. Then the other kind that's produced in small enough quantities that isn't pretty easy to pack safely away. The problem, waste wise, is purely a political problem. Disposing of all the country's nuclear waste is actually less damaging than disposing of all the toxic chemicals in batteries from hybrids, but long standing political positions get in the way of clear thinking.

wrong. not every 10 years. solar panels on average have a lifespan of 20-25 years.

and you don't "dump" lead batteries, you recycle them. there are plenty of battery recycling facilities all over the world.

but i would agree natural gas is a good alternative with caveats such as fracking damage etc.


once again, who is ignoring arsenic and lead? safe recycling is the key.

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Bzzzht! Wrong, sir Baddog.

The Tesla Model S gets 300 Miles on a single charge and does not lose power while parked for long periods of time. Its range is actually longer than most gas cars with the same performance.

:1orglaughWhere do you get your info? link please...:helpme
The disposal of HIGH level nuke waste is a growing crisis whether you want to believe it or not.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radioactive_waste

The car can be plugged in to any 110v or 220v outlet, and can also be charged into any electric charging station that are now being built as as the new super-charger stations.

man, man, man...

:Oh crap

(and btw - i dont like electric cars with batteries either)

Gasoline powered cars are very inefficient. Less than 10% of the energy in gas is actually converted into motion in a car. The other 90% is lost in excess heat and exhaust which itself contributes to greenhouse gas and other dangerous pollutants. Electricity at this level is much cleaner, cheaper, and spits out no pollution to move it.

Most electricity produced in Canada is Hyrdoelectic, meaning it is produced by water, which is sold to the US. Yes the US Still uses Coal for alot of electric power but this too can change.

Nuclear power is still much safer than coal. Including Japan, there are only 0.04 deaths per Terawatt hour vs Coal's 161 Deaths.

They've put up a few charging stations here in Orlando and business have figured out that having one in front of their business is a good way of attracting customers. I believe a Hooters or Wing House had one put in next to their restaurant. Customer comes in to get something to eat while their car gets a quick charge. This is only the beginning and more people will adapt and innovate as electric cars become more common and eventually the norm.

Nah... Solar panels aren't any good for home use yet. They are so expensive that it takes 10 years to recover the cost of installation. I wish they were better but.

Mark, I was wondering about this. If you are idling in trafic jams for hours, how would that effect the range ?

It takes 30 minutes to get a 300 Mile charge. Not as fast as Gasoline, but then again a full charge will cost only about $5.00 of electricity vs $60.00 of Gasoline.

easily done, get a 5-10k solar charging kit for your garage and you're saving $$$ in no time considering you'll otherwise be paying 2-3k minimum every year for gas...

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You may not be around to see the "old folks" getting heart attacks, if you insist on driving like that :winkwink:

Good point, but the waste from Oil, Coal and Gasoline is shot into the air, and breathed into your lungs (and your kids lungs). Furthermore the waste is coming from not only coal plants, but from your own car.

Alot of people are afraid of nuclear for the wrong reasons, but are somehow not at all afraid of coal and gas, which kills tens of thousand of people every year. It's the same irrational thinking that make people afraid to fly. (More people die in car crashes than in air crashes)

These cars by Tesla are beautiful and exactly what the population needs.

However, something isn't right here. How come an outside company is able to make cars like these, but the big automotive companies are still dicking around with silly hybrids? With all of the vast amounts of money these big car companies have combined with their research facilities, why is it that only a brand new company is able to make these cars?

And as for Baddog's comments about range, well, we'll need to change our driving habits. I understand that Baddog is retired and all he does is drive around the country because he's bored to death, but in the future we won't be taking long road trips in our cars. If your going outside of your range, you'll either need to crash someplace for the night or take a train.

you know what the biggest problem in energy is? energy consumption. we would need half of the energy we produce if people would be forced to use it more responsibly

I see two problems with electric cars:

1 ) In a car crash how safe will it be to touch a cable in that car or any metal surface if the battery is damaged and leaking electricity to the car chassis? My diesel powered Ford has not that problem... Until a mechanical killswitch is implemented this kind of cars cannot be considered safe.

2 ) When the batteries run out, will I have 5 minute full recharge option like I have on gas stations with my current car?

Until these problems get really solved, I don't think electrical cars are even a competition to traditional cars.

Sooner or later, they will increase the cost of charging , at the behest of Big Oil. Adding surcharges etc, so it wont be as attractive an alternative:2 cents:

You can find some of the answers in a 2006 documentary called "who killed the electric car"

There is no engine to idle.

OK, but you still have to power all the acessorries, lights, etc and sitting in trafic will not help:winkwink:

Again, they are only good for around town and they are not very economical or good for the earth's wellness.

Anyone that thinks 300 miles is a lot is probably one of those people that are born and buried within 50 miles of each other with no venturing out of their comfort zone. I know you people are here.

300 miles is at 55 MPH. Who drives on the open road at 55 MPH? Besides, that is like Dodge saying you will get 30 MPG highway and 25 in the city. Those numbers are NEVER accurate unless you drive with the wind at your back and coast down hills.

Granted, but the electrical car will be an alternative. In the US, 82% of the people reside in cities and suburbs. Most of these people don't drive more than 300 miles daily and having them use an electrical alternative will definitely help decrease the human damage on the environment ( not to mention lowering their monthly expenses ). Internal combustion engine cars will probably still exist for a very long time and for very good reasons, but the majority will switch to electrical.

By the same logic we should still be writing our documents by carving them into stone! Think about it, if a meteor strikes the Earth now, what will be left of "our" civilization ? What will resist better ? Tiny writings on pieces of paper ? Microscopic grooves made into cd's and blu ray discs ? Or good old fashioned writing carved out of granite ?

Advanced technology is like a tower that's taller and taller. As we advance, it becomes easier and easier to topple. What's your solution ? Going back to the stone age ?

so what happens when you run out of charge ?

example.. i am driving down the road.. the car runs out of juice..

can you pop in some "AA" batteries to get to a plugin or do i have to have it towed.?

on the website it says 30 minutes for 160 miles ONLY on their special built supercharging stations that are much further apart than 160 miles. At home it would take you much longer. If you have to plugin to your standard wall outlet on a trip you will be waiting hours.

If you buy the special twin charger for home you get 60 miles for every hour of charge, otherwise you will be getting 30 miles for an hour of charge. That means for every hour you drive you will have to charge up for 2 hours.

It would surly be a pain to drive cross country in what is available today but they've already extended the range from the first cars available and I don't see why they won't come up with a way to push it to 500 miles and beyond. The day might come when they far out do gas cars and people will say why stop twice to put gas in my car when I can go twice as far on one charge.

It won't be long before business see the value in charging stations and places like Hotels, Restaurants, Malls and Walmart will offer free charging to attract customers much like free WiFi is offered today. As they become more available one could plan a trip evolving several hundred miles by choosing stops for food and sleep that also have charging available. The smoother the system gets the more it will become second nature. Probably even have apps for that :)

As for speed, once all the manufacturers get on board the speed will follow. Porsche and BMW have some exciting stuff in the works. This is the dawn of electric cars. Twenty years from now it will be much more acceptable.

A very limited alternative at the current price tag. :2 cents:

Possibly, at some point in time. Luckily, I will be dead before it becomes a standard. It would suck to have to take up wagon trains and horseback to do any kind of exploring.


http://www.gotbaddog.com/wp-content/.../cody_4605.jpg

http://www.gotbaddog.com/wp-content/.../cody_4619.jpg

Sweet ride, wouldn't mind one of those.

John Jeremiah Liver-eating Johnston:thumbsup