Your an idiot for believing the whole fucking game anyway. :) Just sayin'.

Do you understand the King's English?

Re-read what I wrote. I blamed Congress as much as Obama. Congress has been big spenders, going back to Reagan. Reagan didn't want to spend all that money, he compromised with Congress. It's like blaming a rape victim for the rape.

And furthermore, you are right about the time thing. But it is ALOT longer than four years. This economy has been brewing for the last half century, since the beginning of the welfare state. The cumulative effects of paying hundreds of millions of people TRILLIONS of dollars to do nothing, has finally caught up with us. And there is hell to pay. We are now almost a carbon copy of a European socialist country. That is a fact. Reversing direction is not going to be easy.

Is this how you debate? Someone tells you something and rather than say why, you call them names? Just Saying?

In black and white. :2 cents:

Reagan didn't want to spend the money? You're not going to blame it on his alzheimer's are you? Do you understand how the legislative process works? Here, hopefully this isn't too complex for you to understand:




I like a good debate, but some of the shit that gets posted on this board is so insanely idiotic that it doesn't even warrant a thoughtful response. I'm not trying to single you out, but this post is just riddled with bullshit, it's completely ridiculous. Same type of uninformed, knee-jerk response without a shred of accurate information to back it up that gets posted twenty times a day here. Just blind ideology.

Well it is a fact that the Republicans did filibuster damn near everything. Even things they've agreed on and voted on before. What you posted is not fact - Obama has worked across the table, however the other side of the table has failed to work with him, and that is a fact.

It is a fact that Obama's unemployment rate is lower at the same time than Reagan's.

Both facts that have supporting links posted posted in this thread.

And it is a fact that Reagan helped create the banking problems of today and he did have record spending too.

It appears you're confused on what an opinion actually is.

Entering office at the start of the biggest recession since the Great Depression might have something to do with it.

The majority of that borrowed money went to fighting two, decade long wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. Criticize Obama on the economy all you want, but you really cannot knock the way he's been handling the war on terror.



http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/corpgov...t-becomes-law/

I don't know why they didn't just reinstate Glass-Steagall, but you can't say he did nothing as far as regulation.

Let me point out your opinions vs. facts.

Opinion - not fact.


Twisted fact... the same question could be asked to Reagan at the same period of time in office.


Twisted fact... this is the result of unemployment, not Obama.


Twisted facts... Obama didn't create the debt.

It's your opinion that Congress has to approve nato conflicts.


Opinion... the budget isn't that much for it and he cut part of the epa.


This is twisted gibberish, not any type of fact that makes a difference.


The why of these is pure opinion....




See that was simple, really you posted basically no facts and simply showed your hate for Obama, again.

Obama has been far less than adequate. He followed on the heels of the worst President since Grant and his reelection is being challenged by perhaps the weakest field in the history of the Republican party.

'Better than Bush' is hardly a strong legacy, and able to defeat Bachman/Romney/Cain etc isn't any better. He has perpetuated some terrible bush era policies like gitmo, failed to strengthen government regulations (look at what lack of energy regulation did in the BP gulf oil spill) and proven to be inept at passing real sweeping health care reform in the face of the insurance lobby.

The good news is he is still light years better than bush ever was. The bad news is so is anyone else, so it's not much of a compliment.

Nope... you saw them after Bush.

I agree in that I dont like bush all that much as a presient. the problem is that Obama is spineless, and a liar to boot.

Bush on the other hand was like, 'howdy, Im dumb, and I'm a burnt out coke head deserter, but I AM THE DECIDER, so do what I says bitch'

Being the president is (obviously) a tough job, but the problem with obama is he doesnt hold his word on anything.

I felt with bush, that he at least got what he wanted done, and didnt sugar coat the shit he fed you.

Ultimately the problem is that everyone KNEW the recession was coming, and we the people elected him on the premise that he'd stop wasting money on war, and spend time on the domestic economy. Obama has instead focus on killing terrorists.

I'm fine with killing terrorists in a good economy, everyone needs a hobby. but in a bad economy we should be focusing on getting back to the good.

he seems to give them credit constantly LOL

bad or good, people will still vote for him because what republicans have to offer is laughable..

I'd be interested in hearing that.

So you're blaming a president that's dead and the minority party for the current leadership's problems? Convenient!

If we had a good leader, he would place the blame on himself and not everyone else

Listen again, he never gave anyone credit by name, even to the group, just a small grouip of Americans, but he said "I" a hell of a lot.

Today, at my direction, the United States launched a targeted operation against that compound in Abbottabad, Pakistan. A small team of Americans carried out the operation with extraordinary courage and capability. No Americans were harmed. They took care to avoid civilian casualties. After a firefight, they killed Osama bin Laden and took custody of his body.

I use history to show that Reagan is one of the people that helped create the issues of today. It was not a minority party that created the issues of today or even a single party. The current leadership did not create the problems of actual issues of today. The truth is convenient.

Why would Obama or anyone blame themselves for issues they didn't create or continue to create? That just isn't logical.

He seems to say exactly who it is and thanks them, and says what we are thankful for, what they did, why they aren't named and even gave a shout out to the american people and the military.

"Tonight we give thanks to the countless intelligence and counter terror pros.... American people do not see them or know their names......We give thanks to the men that carried out this operation....they show the professional, patriotism, and courage that of those that serve our country.....families of 9/11, we have never forgotten your loss nor wavered in our commitment....they are all part of the generation that serve the burden of our country.....Today is achievement is a testament to the greatness of our Country..."

Opinion that Reagan worked with Tip O'neill?


Actually no, but nice spin, Reagans high was short lived and dropped as soon as he started working on it, when Obama started working on it, it stopped after it sank a little more and stayed there

Cause and effect


But he's not doing anything about China , Congress is passing the Currency Exchange Rate Oversight Reform Act of 2011 to regulate or to prevent China from regulating its currency. China has come back and said that if we did that there would be a trade war. Yet Obama isn't getting behind it, why?

Conveinent to call them Nato conflicts, the spirit of the limits he has had been broken.




Whatg part did he cut , the personal hookers?
So you don't understand they made more money with the regulation that Obama put them on thatn they did being unregulated, where would you like me to send the hook on phonics?
Opinion? ok, all these unions and states and big companies have figured out how to beast the system that the obamacare law brings and put the cost off on the tax payer, simple enough for you?


I stated all sorts of fact, just because your ego can't see them doesn't mean they aren't there..

Ok, from what you posted, what department did it? What branch of the military?

It's not logical when they can blame others? Again, thats not good leadership.

A good leader would be fixing the problems, not adding to them

Sorry he didn't meet your award acceptance speech guidelines, I guess Obama should be watching the Hollywood awards more to get it right.

Now let's use some logic: He names the unnamed, says thanks to the men that carried out directly, and gives a quick bump to those that serve our country.

So he does thank people... which you said he didn't do, now you don't approve of how he thanked them and what he said. Nice twist btw.

Thankfully he doesn't go blurt out to the world which special operations team and under which command it happened and each of the intelligence members, then you would really have something to flip your lid about.


"Obama ~ Tonight we give thanks to the countless intelligence and counter terror pros.... American people do not see them or know their names......We give thanks to the men that carried out this operation....they show the professional, patriotism, and courage that of those that serve our country.....families of 9/11, we have never forgotten your loss nor wavered in our commitment....they are all part of the generation that serve the burden of our country.....Today is achievement is a testament to the greatness of our Country..."

He should have been humbled by the those that put their lives at risk, instead he used I and MY direction, like he shot Osama himself

https://youtube.com/watch?v=cgbJ-Fs1ikA



https://youtube.com/watch?v=QTcL6Xc_eMM

Yep, that's the lame twist that was clearly being talked about.



Cause and effect, eh? Like, record deficit beyond anything before, massive housing crisis, and a crooked congress? Yeah.... not those causes I suspect.



No idea, maybe more regulation is bad, maybe a trade war would be bad or good, I'm not sure... maybe that's why Obama hasn't done something?

It's not convenient, that's what it is... you are wrong, other Presidents have worked with nato in various conflicts and went through the same exact steps.


You do not have that information to know that.... we did not run two different situations to know this outcome. All we know is they went bankrupt, got all debt removed, they made money with the bailout money, paid some back, and were able to start over fresh with billions-trillions to start with. Shit, that's before the regulations... so again for all you know, they may have profited more or something totally different - but you don't know that, nobody does.

This is why it's your opinion.

Wow, aren't they smart... they figured out how it works. I have no problem with this.



My ego doesn't judge your hate for Obama.

Again, he didn't meet your speech guidelines, however he still did thank the people - which you denied, he did name them, which you didn't believe, and now he didn't say it how you wanted him too.... wow man.

But Vendzilla is right .. He did not name them by their name, unlike `Scooter' outing Valerie Plane with Dick Cheney go ahead..

Obama should have outed them as well, then lie.

Yep, staging was weak ... This is Top Notch :

http://www.commondreams.org/headline...es/1030-02.jpg

where did you see that?

A twist Obama used in a speech


So you agree there is a problem and the present administration is doing what?


Given our debt with them and Obama even stating a problem, don't you think a good leader would do something? Congress is trying to!
And where does that make it right or to what mit was intended to limit his power? I bet you were bitching about no WMD's


Yes I do know that, http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/0..._n_866903.html

This is why it's your opinion.

More than an opinion, fact

Good, you finally agree Obama care is not going to work as promised and the funding they used to get it past the CBO was incorrect


Then why is it the one thing you keep bringing up?

He gave credit to himself for killing Osama, not the people that risked their life.


Just because you can make things up, doesn't mean they are correct

You really are a moron aren't you, he gave credit, he never claimed any for himself, instead of I, he said we and named commands responsible.


February 11, 2009 8:43 PM PrintText Text Of Bush Speech

Admiral Kelly, Captain Card, officers and sailors of the USS Abraham Lincoln, my fellow Americans: Major combat operations in Iraq have ended. In the Battle of Iraq, the United States and our allies have prevailed. And now our coalition is engaged in securing and reconstructing that country.

In this battle, we have fought for the cause of liberty, and for the peace of the world. Our nation and our coalition are proud of this accomplishment ? yet it is you, the members of the United States military, who achieved it. Your courage ? your willingness to face danger for your country and for each other ? made this day possible. Because of you, our nation is more secure. Because of you, the tyrant has fallen, and Iraq is free.

Operation Iraqi Freedom was carried out with a combination of precision, and speed, and boldness the enemy did not expect, and the world had not seen before. From distant bases or ships at sea, we sent planes and missiles that could destroy an enemy division, or strike a single bunker. Marines and soldiers charged to Baghdad across 350 miles of hostile ground, in one of the swiftest advances of heavy arms in history. You have shown the world the skill and the might of the American Armed Forces.

This nation thanks all of the members of our coalition who joined in a noble cause. We thank the Armed Forces of the United Kingdom, Australia, and Poland, who shared in the hardships of war. We thank all of the citizens of Iraq who welcomed our troops and joined in the liberation of their own country. And tonight, I have a special word for Secretary (Donald) Rumsfeld, for General (Tommy) Franks, and for all the men and women who wear the uniform of the United States: America is grateful for a job well done.

The character of our military through history ? the daring of Normandy, the fierce courage of Iwo Jima, the decency and idealism that turned enemies into allies ? is fully present in this generation. When Iraqi civilians looked into the faces of our servicemen and women, they saw strength, and kindness, and good will. When I look at the members of the United States military, I see the best of our country, and I am honored to be your commander in chief.

In the images of fallen statues, we have witnessed the arrival of a new era. For a hundred years of war, culminating in the nuclear age, military technology was designed and deployed to inflict casualties on an ever-growing scale. In defeating Nazi Germany and imperial Japan, Allied Forces destroyed entire cities, while enemy leaders who started the conflict were safe until the final days. Military power was used to end a regime by breaking a nation. Today, we have the greater power to free a nation by breaking a dangerous and aggressive regime. With new tactics and precision weapons, we can achieve military objectives without directing violence against civilians. No device of man can remove the tragedy from war. Yet it is a great advance when the guilty have far more to fear from war than the innocent.

In the images of celebrating Iraqis, we have also seen the ageless appeal of human freedom. Decades of lies and intimidation could not make the Iraqi people love their oppressors or desire their own enslavement. Men and women in every culture need liberty like they need food, and water, and air. Everywhere that freedom arrives, humanity rejoices. And everywhere that freedom stirs, let tyrants fear.

We have difficult work to do in Iraq. We are bringing order to parts of that country that remain dangerous. We are pursuing and finding leaders of the old regime, who will be held to account for their crimes. We have begun the search for hidden chemical and biological weapons, and already know of hundreds of sites that will be investigated. We are helping to rebuild Iraq, where the dictator built palaces for himself, instead of hospitals and schools. And we will stand with the new leaders of Iraq as they establish a government of, by, and for the Iraqi people. The transition from dictatorship to democracy will take time, but it is worth every effort. Our coalition will stay until our work is done. And then we will leave ? and we will leave behind a free Iraq.

The Battle of Iraq is one victory in a war on terror that began on September the 11th, 2001, and still goes on. That terrible morning, 19 evil men ? the shock troops of a hateful ideology ? gave America and the civilized world a glimpse of their ambitions. They imagined, in the words of one terrorist, that September the 11th would be the "beginning of the end of America." By seeking to turn our cities into killing fields, terrorists and their allies believed that they could destroy this nation's resolve, and force our retreat from the world. They have failed.

In the Battle of Afghanistan, we destroyed the Taliban, many terrorists, and the camps where they trained. We continue to help the Afghan people lay roads, restore hospitals, and educate all of their children. Yet we also have dangerous work to complete. As I speak, a special operations task force, led by the 82nd Airborne, is on the trail of the terrorists, and those who seek to undermine the free government of Afghanistan. America and our coalition will finish what we have begun.

From Pakistan to the Philippines to the Horn of Africa, we are hunting down al-Qaida killers. Nineteen months ago, I pledged that the terrorists would not escape the patient justice of the United States. And as of tonight, nearly one-half of al-Qaida's senior operatives have been captured or killed.

The liberation of Iraq is a crucial advance in the campaign against terror. We have removed an ally of al-Qaida, and cut off a source of terrorist funding. And this much is certain: No terrorist network will gain weapons of mass destruction from the Iraqi regime, because the regime is no more.

In these 19 months that changed the world, our actions have been focused, and deliberate, and proportionate to the offense. We have not forgotten the victims of September the 11th ? the last phone calls, the cold murder of children, the searches in the rubble. With those attacks, the terrorists and their supporters declared war on the United States. And war is what they got.

Our war against terror is proceeding according to principles that I have made clear to all:

Any person involved in committing or planning terrorist attacks against the American people becomes an enemy of this country, and a target of American justice.

Any person, organization, or government that supports, protects, or harbors terrorists is complicit in the murder of the innocent, and equally guilty of terrorist crimes.

Any outlaw regime that has ties to terrorist groups, and seeks or possesses weapons of mass destruction, is a grave danger to the civilized world, and will be confronted.

And anyone in the world, including the Arab world, who works and sacrifices for freedom has a loyal friend in the United States of America.

Our commitment to liberty is America's tradition ? declared at our founding, affirmed in Franklin Roosevelt's Four Freedoms, asserted in the Truman Doctrine, and in Ronald Reagan's challenge to an evil empire. We are committed to freedom in Afghanistan, in Iraq, and in a peaceful Palestine. The advance of freedom is the surest strategy to undermine the appeal of terror in the world. Where freedom takes hold, hatred gives way to hope. When freedom takes hold, men and women turn to the peaceful pursuit of a better life. American values, and American interests, lead in the same direction: We stand for human liberty.

The United States upholds these principles of security and freedom in many ways ? with all the tools of diplomacy, law enforcement, intelligence, and finance. We are working with a broad coalition of nations that understand the threat, and our shared responsibility to meet it. The use of force has been, and remains, our last resort. Yet all can know, friend and foe alike, that our nation has a mission: We will answer threats to our security, and we will defend the peace.

Our mission continues. Al-Qaida is wounded, not destroyed. The scattered cells of the terrorist network still operate in many nations, and we know from daily intelligence that they continue to plot against free people. The proliferation of deadly weapons remains a serious danger. The enemies of freedom are not idle, and neither are we. Our government has taken unprecedented measures to defend the homeland ? and we will continue to hunt down the enemy before he can strike.

The war on terror is not over, yet it is not endless. We do not know the day of final victory, but we have seen the turning of the tide. No act of the terrorists will change our purpose, or weaken our resolve, or alter their fate. Their cause is lost. Free nations will press on to victory.

Other nations in history have fought in foreign lands and remained to occupy and exploit. Americans, following a battle, want nothing more than to return home. And that is your direction tonight. After service in the Afghan and Iraqi theaters of war — after 100,000 miles, on the longest carrier deployment in recent history — you are homeward bound. Some of you will see new family members for the first time — 150 babies were born while their fathers were on the Lincoln. Your families are proud of you, and your nation will welcome you.

We are mindful as well that some good men and women are not making the journey home. One of those who fell, Corporal Jason Mileo, spoke to his parents five days before his death. Jason's father said, "He called us from the center of Baghdad, not to brag, but to tell us he loved us. Our son was a soldier." Every name, every life, is a loss to our military, to our nation, and to the loved ones who grieve. There is no homecoming for these families. Yet we pray, in God's time, their reunion will come.

Those we lost were last seen on duty. Their final act on this earth was to fight a great evil, and bring liberty to others. All of you — all in this generation of our military — have taken up the highest calling of history. You are defending your country, and protecting the innocent from harm. And wherever you go, you carry a message of hope — a message that is ancient, and ever new. In the words of the prophet Isaiah: "To the captives, 'Come out!' and to those in darkness, 'Be free!"'

Thank you for serving our country and our cause. May God bless you all, and may God continue to bless America.

In comparison, Obama is just someone looking out for himself

like bush wrote that himself. vendzilla takes stupidity to new levels. he's like the paul markham of political debate.

Um, you think Obama wrote his speech?
Before you post something, try thinking first, I know it's a new concept and we can always use the laugh at your lame attempts of humor, but it's getting old

He gave direct credit to the people that did it... it was quoted, it's in the video, and clearly you're just ignoring it..... saying I'm making it up, when he without question said it, does not make you correct, ignoring it does not make you correct - however it does make you bat shit crazy.

possibly, but laughing at your dead brain never does. :1orglaugh

Another lame pointless twist...


Off topic.


You act as if he is blocking it and stopping it. You're just not happy he's not standing up and praising it, well not that you've heard at least.


Iraq was not a nato started conflict. His power is limited exactly how all Presidents powers are limited with war.



Lame very off topic twist... notice the article says nothing about regulations or obama's regulations making profits higher. Again, your opinion is not fact.


I never said it would work as they expected, I've always said I'm glad they did something and didn't care what they did. I want to 100% socialize all medical costs, exactly like Canada has it. I know it can work, I've seen it work, and I don't really care if you or anyone else doesn't like it, if it costs more or not, or whatever bullshit excuse you can think of - I 100% support it, without question.


Because your hate blinds you. It makes you twist the truth within your head so it matches the truth your hate created for you.

Being that you think Obama took credit, here are all the I's in Obama's speech.

"Tonight, I can report to the American people and to the world that the United States has conducted an operation that killed Osama bin Laden"

"shortly after taking office, I directed Leon Panetta, the director of the CIA, to make the killing or capture of bin Laden the top priority"

"I was briefed on a possible lead to bin Laden"

"I met repeatedly with my national security team"

"I determined that we had enough intelligence to take action"

"Tonight, I called President Zardari"

"I know that it has, at times, frayed."


Oh and here's the thanks to the actual people....

"Tonight, we give thanks to the countless intelligence and counterterrorism professionals who've worked tirelessly to achieve this outcome. The American people do not see their work, nor know their names. But tonight, they feel the satisfaction of their work and the result of their pursuit of justice.

We give thanks for the men who carried out this operation, for they exemplify the professionalism, patriotism, and unparalleled courage of those who serve our country. And they are part of a generation that has borne the heaviest share of the burden since that September day.

Finally, let me say to the families who lost loved ones on 9/11 that we have never forgotten your loss, nor wavered in our commitment to see that we do whatever it takes to prevent another attack on our shores."


Source: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/0..._n_856122.html

when i read Bush speech i am not sure if i should cry or laugh.

Obama made the healthcare system worse

I woluld like see all that oil in Bakken used more http://money.cnn.com/2011/03/04/news...kken/index.htm

OK, so who did he thank? List please

I seriously don't know why you waste your time Doc. Obama could wake up tomorrow with an irrefutable cure for all cancers and the Republican's would twist it somehow, not give him credit and even find blame.

"How long have you had the cure? How many people have died because you waited so long to give us the cure?" etc. etc. etc.

It'd be the same thing if the economy turned tomorrow. The Republican's would take credit (because THEY put things in place 30 years ago) and blame Obama at the same time (it would have worked SOONER if YOU hadn't screwed things up).

I'm still waiting to hear Vendzilla's claim that Obama said he could wave a magic wand and fix the economy but I'm not holding my breath.

Laugh or cry, at least he gave credit to where credit was deserved. I never cared much for Bush, But at least he didn't act like this was all about him

I stated the present condition of the US and present administration, if you have a problem with that, please tell me where I'm wrong, because Doc has been only giving me excuses like Obama does, people get a little tired of that

we give thanks to the countless intelligence and counterterrorism professionals

We give thanks for the men who carried out this operation


Did you miss that or conveniently ignore it? Or that doesn't satisfy you?

Not admitting something this silly only makes you look irrational and doesn't lend yourself or your party any credibility. People get a little tired of THAT.