What Occupy Wall Street Wants - Page 2 - GoFuckYourself.com

Sly · 10-24-2011, 07:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucy - CSC

It can be produced locally like food can be grown locally cost effectivily. We are not talking cheap shit sold in super markets but high end stuff. The main problem was what I outlined that the money was not there for credit lines etc to finance it and that is why it is moving abroad.

Ok, lets say Bob sells widgets. Note: he doesn't actually make them, he just sells them.

Bob has $25,000. He sells widgets for $350.

Widgets cost $100 to buy from China. Widgets cost $300 to buy from Omaha, NE. Bob buys 250 from China and makes $62,500. Bob could only buy 83 widgets from NE and would make $4,150.

Bank of America loans Bob $100,000. Bob now has $125,000. Buys 1250 widgets from China, profit $312,500. Or 416 widgets from NE, profit $20,800.

Bob is not buying from Nebraska no matter how much money you free up for Bob. Bob will buy from Nebraska if the conditions are right (better quality, better service,) but he is not going to buy from Nebraska simply because he has more money from the bank. That makes absolutely no sense at all.

PR_Chi · 10-24-2011, 07:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucy - CSC

I personally think this is a beautifull message.

A revolution is coming to America.. Not Just America but the World, people are waking up and finally realising how the world works and that their rights as free human beings are slowly being taken away from them..
The 99% are rising up!

What a great Video

BlackCrayon · 10-24-2011, 07:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sly

Ok, lets say Bob sells widgets. Note: he doesn't actually make them, he just sells them.

Bob has $25,000. He sells widgets for $350.

Widgets cost $100 to buy from China. Widgets cost $300 to buy from Omaha, NE. Bob buys 250 from China and makes $62,500. Bob could only buy 83 widgets from NE and would make $4,150.

Bank of America loans Bob $100,000. Bob now has $125,000. Buys 1250 widgets from China, profit $312,500. Or 416 widgets from NE, profit $20,800.

Bob is not buying from Nebraska no matter how much money you free up for Bob. Bob will buy from Nebraska if the conditions are right (better quality, better service,) but he is not going to buy from Nebraska simply because he has more money from the bank. That makes absolutely no sense at all.

you are assuming these 'widgets' are of the exact same quality, design, etc? Because that is pretty much never the case when buying in China. Also, Bob would be foolish to sell the widgets for the same price, even though the ones from Omaha are most likely of better quality. Much like you can't buy a lexus for the same price as a honda civic.

Caligari · 10-24-2011, 07:53 AM

And if you think whether stocks rise or fall is a real measure of worth you are the biggest tool of all.

Sly · 10-24-2011, 07:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackCrayon

you are assuming these 'widgets' are of the exact same quality, design, etc? Because that is pretty much never the case when buying in China. Also, Bob would be foolish to sell the widgets for the same price, even though the ones from Omaha are most likely of better quality. Much like you can't buy a lexus for the same price as a honda civic.

This I don't agree with at all and is a common argument. It's true, you can buy absolute total crap in China. You can also buy top-quality stuff.

I recently bought a brand-new HP laptop and iPhone 4S. Both made and sent from China. I tracked them.

I have a friend that buys a product from China and resells them. His scenario is exactly the same as Bob's. This product has X as a market retail rate. Buying it from Nebraska instead of China will not allow him to sell the product for more.

TheSquealer · 10-24-2011, 08:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackCrayon

you are assuming these 'widgets' are of the exact same quality, design, etc? Because that is pretty much never the case when buying in China. Also, Bob would be foolish to sell the widgets for the same price, even though the ones from Omaha are most likely of better quality. Much like you can't buy a lexus for the same price as a honda civic.

Thats such a weak argument. Considering my iphone is made in china as well as the nike shirt i'm wearing, my shoes and even my "swiss" watch... I don't think quality is really a problem. If anything, its a problem in the state where overhead and costs to manufactur are much greater and corners have to be cut.

BlackCrayon · 10-24-2011, 08:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheSquealer

Thats such a weak argument. Considering my iphone is made in china as well as the nike shirt i'm wearing, my shoes and even my "swiss" watch... I don't think quality is really a problem. If anything, its a problem in the state where overhead and costs to manufactur are much greater and corners have to be cut.

Its hard to find anything these days that isn't made in China but that is not the argument, is it? Of course quality things *can* be made in China but when someone is just looking for the cheapest option possible, I would assume it won't be made in the same place that makes iphones or swiss watches. Manufactoring in general is going to hell. Using plastic parts on things that used to be metal, which don't last as long. They are always looking to make their products cheaper and keep selling them for more.

BlackCrayon · 10-24-2011, 08:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sly

This I don't agree with at all and is a common argument. It's true, you can buy absolute total crap in China. You can also buy top-quality stuff.

I recently bought a brand-new HP laptop and iPhone 4S. Both made and sent from China. I tracked them.

I have a friend that buys a product from China and resells them. His scenario is exactly the same as Bob's. This product has X as a market retail rate. Buying it from Nebraska instead of China will not allow him to sell the product for more.

But if Bob really wants to save money, he will use the cheapest possible option, right? Either way, all of this cost cutting comes at a price. What do you do when the audience you are trying to market to is largely unemployed because all manufactoring jobs have moved overseas?

Caligari · 10-24-2011, 08:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackCrayon

But if Bob really wants to save money, he will use the cheapest possible option, right? Either way, all of this cost cutting comes at a price. What do you do when the audience you are trying to market to is largely unemployed because all manufactoring jobs have moved overseas?

Answer: they don't give a rat's ass.

Response to answer: OWS

Lucy - CSC · 10-24-2011, 08:17 AM

Watch this video featuring Sir James Goldsmith one of the worlds most famous capitalists.

Sly · 10-24-2011, 08:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackCrayon

But if Bob really wants to save money, he will use the cheapest possible option, right? Either way, all of this cost cutting comes at a price. What do you do when the audience you are trying to market to is largely unemployed because all manufactoring jobs have moved overseas?

What?

I clearly explained that he can buy the exact same product for a significant cheaper price, and now you are saying that since he is willing to buy the cheaper product once, that automatically means he is willing to sacrifice quality to get even a cheaper product?

Sure, that's certainly possible, but it has nothing to do with the equation I gave out or this little discussion we are having. We can skew it all day long really. Plus, he could do the same exact thing in Nebraska. I don't know about you... but I'm not exactly happy with my American-made products or service anymore.

He could buy from Nebraska and force the factory to hire only illegals. Or he can force the factory to buy all of the parts for the widgets from a shitty manufacturer in Ethiopia. Or he can force the factory to pay out minimum wage only with no benefits.

I mean the list goes on and on. None of it has anything to do with the A to A scenario I gave.

woj · 10-24-2011, 08:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackCrayon

But if Bob really wants to save money, he will use the cheapest possible option, right? Either way, all of this cost cutting comes at a price. What do you do when the audience you are trying to market to is largely unemployed because all manufactoring jobs have moved overseas?

Bottom line is, you can manufacture same quality product cheaper in China, than you can locally...
what quality Bob chooses is up to him, and not necessarily cheapest possible, look at Apple for example, I'm sure they didn't pick the cheapest option...

The fact that manufacturing jobs are leaving is no doubt a problem, but it's certainly not Bob's fault, and it's certainly not Bob's problem to resolve, so it makes no sense to point fingers at Bob and claim he is a greedy asshole because he is doing what any sane person would do...

TheSquealer · 10-24-2011, 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackCrayon

Its hard to find anything these days that isn't made in China but that is not the argument, is it? Of course quality things *can* be made in China but when someone is just looking for the cheapest option possible, I would assume it won't be made in the same place that makes iphones or swiss watches. Manufactoring in general is going to hell. Using plastic parts on things that used to be metal, which don't last as long. They are always looking to make their products cheaper and keep selling them for more.

Do you understand how little sense you make? I have a product... a widget. I have all my technical specs, manufacturers specs and requirements. I find someone to build that for me. Then I get samples made, evaluate, then make incrementally larger orders while carefully monitoring quality. Quality is NEVER the problem. Someone, somewhere will do it better and cheaper than Gary in Nebraska.

Say I need an illustration. I go to a filippino artist who does it for 50.00 and its awesome. Gary in Nebraska wants 500.00 for the same job. Where does "quality" fit into the equation? Quality is a given. The buyer is paying for items built to spec. Thats it.

BFT3K · 10-24-2011, 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucy - CSC

Watch this video featuring Sir James Goldsmith one of the worlds most famous capitalists.

Brilliant video! Thanks for posting!

Sums up our current state of affairs quite accurately.

epitome · 10-24-2011, 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Internet Guy

And we're off..

I swear GFY has some government trolls posting in any politics/revolution threads.

Busted.

I got ran out of porn and now own a CIA front company. Much more lucrative. It doesn't matter if I actually turn a profit so long as I say I do.

I have a four million dollar a year budget and outsource posting to third world countries (look at the foreigners posting in these threads...they are mine) to save money. My handlers are OK with that. I may be part of the problem.

pornguy · 10-24-2011, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caligari

Reading that you start realizing just how many things are completely screwed up.
You could isolate Monsanto as one mega-agribiz which is obliterating large parts of the planet and has control of roughly 2/3's of the world's food supply etc...

point being is that alot of people (myself included) have been saying the ows movement needs to have a few simple demands that everyone can get behind, but the problem is there are so many critical problems paring down a list is difficult.

The one thing they need to drop is the anti-capitalist stance.
The problem is not capitalism, it's corrupt corporatism.
We are subject to a corporatocracy which is above the law, or which has become the law.

and even that they need to be very careful with.

Why would the owner of a business not have the lions share of the profits?

It was his idea, his work his sweat many times that made the businesses. if he wants to then hire someone to run his company and pay him well that is his choice.

Sadly you have to BUY Loyalty now days. if you dont they will sell off your business and ruin you.

If these people are not careful for what they ask. they may get more than that bargained for.

epitome · 10-24-2011, 10:59 AM

What really sucks is I only know what the problem is. I have zero idea how to fix it and nobody here does either as the solution doesn't lie in 100 words or even a million words.

Things need to be broken down and rebuilt like a transmission times a million. One fuckup and it still will not run.

There are very few qualified to fix this and I am afraid they don't have enough support to do it or they won't risk their lifes reputation even if they did.

It is easier to manipulate the situation and get rich in the meantime and pray you are still left with something when the cards come crumbling down.

Our economy is FUBAR.

BFT3K · 10-24-2011, 11:45 AM

http://nymag.com/news/frank-rich/class-war-2011-10/

epitome · 10-24-2011, 12:12 PM

I found the solution:

Watch Money Never Sleeps and lose faith in the world and then watch The Blind Side and get it back.

BlackCrayon · 10-24-2011, 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by woj

Bottom line is, you can manufacture same quality product cheaper in China, than you can locally...
what quality Bob chooses is up to him, and not necessarily cheapest possible, look at Apple for example, I'm sure they didn't pick the cheapest option...

The fact that manufacturing jobs are leaving is no doubt a problem, but it's certainly not Bob's fault, and it's certainly not Bob's problem to resolve, so it makes no sense to point fingers at Bob and claim he is a greedy asshole because he is doing what any sane person would do...

who's problem is it it resolve? cheap labour doesn't last forever. eventually the workers will want more. you can keep moving and exploiting other third world nations but in time they too will want more and on and on.

BlackCrayon · 10-24-2011, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheSquealer

Do you understand how little sense you make? I have a product... a widget. I have all my technical specs, manufacturers specs and requirements. I find someone to build that for me. Then I get samples made, evaluate, then make incrementally larger orders while carefully monitoring quality. Quality is NEVER the problem. Someone, somewhere will do it better and cheaper than Gary in Nebraska.

Say I need an illustration. I go to a filippino artist who does it for 50.00 and its awesome. Gary in Nebraska wants 500.00 for the same job. Where does "quality" fit into the equation? Quality is a given. The buyer is paying for items built to spec. Thats it.

All I know is that majority of products made in china do not last as long as their american counterparts 20 years ago. things are being made cheaper while wanting more for the product. if quality is so closely monitored by the bobs of the world then why are there so many recalls involving chinese made products?

TheSquealer · 10-24-2011, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackCrayon

All I know is that majority of products made in china do not last as long as their american counterparts 20 years ago. things are being made cheaper while wanting more for the product. if quality is so closely monitored by the bobs of the world then why are there so many recalls involving chinese made products?

You are making some very broad statements which clearly aren't true and that you can't prove.

"So many recalls"?

How many is that exactly?

How many is that compared to how many products being manufactured in China that the USA imports?

What % of Chinese products manufactured for US buyers are recalled?

Seems you are just making shit up as you go...

(Pretty sad when that's "all you know"...)

Elli · 10-24-2011, 01:22 PM

Technology was supposed to make everything faster, easier, cheaper to free up people's hours for other things. Well, now we have people with LOTS of free time. Do we pay them for not working because a robot or a cheaper, faster person is doing their job? What should they be doing with all that free time? Where is the Star Trek world where everyone is free to pursue their own passions and not worry about money? Hmph.

BlackCrayon · 10-24-2011, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheSquealer

You are making some very broad statements which clearly aren't true and that you can't prove.

"So many recalls"?

How many is that exactly?

How many is that compared to how many products being manufactured in China that the USA imports?

What % of Chinese products manufactured for US buyers are recalled?

Seems you are just making shit up as you go...

(Pretty sad when that's "all you know"...)

Mr.Squealer, I don't have time to argue with someone who just loves to argue so check out these links if you want and please tell me they are not relevent.

China products choke, burn,
drown, drop, trap Americans
Washington's consumer safety recalls
overwhelmingly hit imports from East
http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=41966

Industry experts say U.S. companies need to monitor overseas factories more closely to prevent product safety lapses.
http://money.cnn.com/2007/08/02/news...alls/index.htm

Defective Products Galore... What's Up With China?
http://www.totalinjury.com/news/arti...t-recalls.aspx

Did Large Recalls of Chinese Consumer Goods Lower U.S. Imports from China?
http://www.frbsf.org/publications/ec...el2008-17.html

Recalled US Products Mostly From China, Where Penalties Are Rare
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/0..._n_222627.html

Phoenix · 10-24-2011, 01:38 PM

just an input...everyone knows anything made in china basically sucks

kids toys...last 1 year tops...esp electronic ones.

BFT3K · 10-24-2011, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phoenix

just an input...everyone knows anything made in china basically sucks

kids toys...last 1 year tops...esp electronic ones.

Some Chinese food is good though, once or twice a year...

chaze · 10-24-2011, 07:12 PM

I feel bad, the truth is this will not effect anything. The 1% cannot be touched without force and the government is stronger then it's people. In the end nothing can be done. We still go to wallmart, we will still use bog banks, we will still get credit cards and car loans, we will still spend everything so we can say we own a house. The US is taken by the balls period.

baddog · 10-24-2011, 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BFT3K

Some Chinese food is good though, once or twice a year...

porno jew · 10-24-2011, 07:28 PM

classic oneupmanship.

TheSquealer · 10-25-2011, 05:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackCrayon

Mr.Squealer, I don't have time to argue with someone who just loves to argue so check out these links if you want and please tell me they are not relevent.

Yes, with hundreds of billions of dollars in annual trade, you found a few random examples. Congrats. Obviously you've failed at math if you believe that to be a statistically relevant find. AND.. Guess what? I could start pointing out to you how many US manufacturing facilities get fined, cited, shut down, have product recalls etc. Should we use your logic to suggest that just because Ford recalls 1,000,000 F150 Pickup trucks, that ALL American vehicles are sub par (which they are famous for)?

You are trying to argue a point that makes zero sense. Obviously all the worlds largest companies agree with me being that they are manufacturing their goods in China and have NO issues with quality - including most electronics you buy, most clothes you buy, most shoes you buy etc etc etc.

You are like a woman. You are mad... maybe not entirely sure why you're mad. You are trying to argue, but can't seem to make a coherent, intelligent point because your arguing is more about expressing anger and frustration rather than laying out a well thought out and well reasoned point supported by evidence.

Furthermore, your argument assumes that consumers are stupid and don't know what they want, can't recognize quality over bad quality and have no real sense of value which is absurd. (ironically of course, you "get it" and hundreds of millions of others don't!) YAWWWWN!

BlackCrayon · 10-25-2011, 06:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheSquealer

Yes, with hundreds of billions of dollars in annual trade, you found a few random examples. Congrats. Obviously you've failed at math if you believe that to be a statistically relevant find. AND.. Guess what? I could start pointing out to you how many US manufacturing facilities get fined, cited, shut down, have product recalls etc. Should we use your logic to suggest that just because Ford recalls 1,000,000 F150 Pickup trucks, that ALL American vehicles are sub par (which they are famous for)?

You are trying to argue a point that makes zero sense. Obviously all the worlds largest companies agree with me being that they are manufacturing their goods in China and have NO issues with quality - including most electronics you buy, most clothes you buy, most shoes you buy etc etc etc.

You are like a woman. You are mad... maybe not entirely sure why you're mad. You are trying to argue, but can't seem to make a coherent, intelligent point because your arguing is more about expressing anger and frustration rather than laying out a well thought out and well reasoned point supported by evidence.

Furthermore, your argument assumes that consumers are stupid and don't know what they want, can't recognize quality over bad quality and have no real sense of value which is absurd. (ironically of course, you "get it" and hundreds of millions of others don't!) YAWWWWN!

You obviously didn't even look at the links. They weren't random examples but articles on the trend of recalls from china. Oh and your ford example, chances are they were recalled due to parts that were made in china because while american cars might be put together in the USA, they consist of parts mainly from china but also other countries.

You think you are smart..maybe not entirely sure why you think you are smart though. All you do is basically insult with no real reason as to why. You just want to argue a point and be right. Oh, I've got it.. you are a woman. Just wants to argue and argue without even listening to any little bit of reason that might be there.

Regardless, lets get this discussion back on track. This thread is not about shitty chinese products. Its about Occupy Wall Street and what they want. I'm sure you can find something to argue about that too.

TheSquealer · 10-25-2011, 07:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackCrayon

You think you are smart..maybe not entirely sure why you think you are smart though. All you do is basically insult with no real reason as to why. You just want to argue a point and be right. Oh, I've got it.. you are a woman. Just wants to argue and argue without even listening to any little bit of reason that might be there.

What reason? You start with a flawed argument that you can't prove or support. The idea that a widget made in China should be expected to be inferior to a widget made in Nebraska.

The world seems to disagree with you. But hey, write Apple... they might be convinced to produce Iphones in Nebraska. Of course, they will cost $5000.00 each and more likely be of poorer quality as a new facility has to learn to get good at reducing production times, improve efficiency and reduce manufacturers defects. By then the plant will unionize and costs will rise but quality will not. But hey! As long as everyone agrees with you that they are "better quality" than a Chinese Iphone, they won't mind paying $5000.00 for them.

Minte · 10-25-2011, 07:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackCrayon

You obviously didn't even look at the links. They weren't random examples but articles on the trend of recalls from china. Oh and your ford example, chances are they were recalled due to parts that were made in china because while american cars might be put together in the USA, they consist of parts mainly from china but also other countries.

You think you are smart..maybe not entirely sure why you think you are smart though. All you do is basically insult with no real reason as to why. You just want to argue a point and be right. Oh, I've got it.. you are a woman. Just wants to argue and argue without even listening to any little bit of reason that might be there.

Regardless, lets get this discussion back on track. This thread is not about shitty chinese products. Its about Occupy Wall Street and what they want. I'm sure you can find something to argue about that too.

I would tend to agree with you. We have been buying in China for nearly 8 years now and the problems we started with still exist. One of the biggest issues and is the reason Chinese quality is so erratic is that you never know who there is actually making your products.

When we started we thought we were buying from a manufacturer in Ningbo. When some quality issues developed it took too long to resolve it. Finally,we sent one of our engineers to Ningbo to work with their production manager and then it came out that they were actually using a company in Beijing to make our parts. This goes on constantly. For smaller companys most of the work is farmed out to friends of cousins.etc...

Another issue with China is payment. We have to pay for everything at the port in China before it ships. So we have to tie up cash for anywhere from 45-60 days before we get anything. Then we sell it and have to wait another 30-45 days to get paid. A few years ago, our biggest supplier in China was nearly 2 months late on a container. So we had nothing to sell. Then they decided to send the next container at the same time. So we end up with a massive inventory problem and those kinds of things don't help cashflow.

Lastly is pricing. Their rate of inflation is higher than ours in the US. Every 90 days they up the costs. It makes it very difficult to build a catalog of prices.

10-24-2011, 07:53 AM	#54
Caligari Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: At The Mountains Of Madness Posts: 5,414	And if you think whether stocks rise or fall is a real measure of worth you are the biggest tool of all. __________________ ATTN Webmasters Cruel Bucks - LIVE Gonzo Does Not Pay ------------------------------------------------ Animal Rescue Click Here to Feed An Animal for Free

10-24-2011, 08:17 AM	#60
Lucy - CSC Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 490	Watch this video featuring Sir James Goldsmith one of the worlds most famous capitalists. __________________ Dear USA, Your 9/11 is our 24/7, Sincerely Palestine xx

10-24-2011, 01:22 PM	#73
Elli Reach for those stars! Industry Role: Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Vancouver, BC Posts: 17,991	Technology was supposed to make everything faster, easier, cheaper to free up people's hours for other things. Well, now we have people with LOTS of free time. Do we pay them for not working because a robot or a cheaper, faster person is doing their job? What should they be doing with all that free time? Where is the Star Trek world where everyone is free to pursue their own passions and not worry about money? Hmph. __________________ email: [email protected]

10-24-2011, 01:38 PM	#75
Phoenix BACON BACON BACON Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Poems everybody, the laddie fancies himself a poet Posts: 35,469	just an input...everyone knows anything made in china basically sucks kids toys...last 1 year tops...esp electronic ones. __________________ Skype Phoenixskype1 Telegram PhoenixBrad https://quantads.io

10-24-2011, 10:59 AM	#67
epitome So Fucking Lame Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: St. Petersburg, FL Posts: 12,156	What really sucks is I only know what the problem is. I have zero idea how to fix it and nobody here does either as the solution doesn't lie in 100 words or even a million words. Things need to be broken down and rebuilt like a transmission times a million. One fuckup and it still will not run. There are very few qualified to fix this and I am afraid they don't have enough support to do it or they won't risk their lifes reputation even if they did. It is easier to manipulate the situation and get rich in the meantime and pray you are still left with something when the cards come crumbling down. Our economy is FUBAR.

10-24-2011, 11:45 AM	#68
BFT3K Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Narnia Posts: 10,764	http://nymag.com/news/frank-rich/class-war-2011-10/

10-24-2011, 12:12 PM	#69
epitome So Fucking Lame Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: St. Petersburg, FL Posts: 12,156	I found the solution: Watch Money Never Sleeps and lose faith in the world and then watch The Blind Side and get it back.

10-24-2011, 07:12 PM	#77
chaze Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 9,752	I feel bad, the truth is this will not effect anything. The 1% cannot be touched without force and the government is stronger then it's people. In the end nothing can be done. We still go to wallmart, we will still use bog banks, we will still get credit cards and car loans, we will still spend everything so we can say we own a house. The US is taken by the balls period.

10-24-2011, 07:28 PM	#79
porno jew Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 10,166	classic oneupmanship.