And if a hoax, then I'd suggest this is the beginning of the end for the yes men.

What credibility they had was in their targeting - now if they are just hoaxing for hoaxing's sake, or to embarrass the bbc, they are going to be reduced to the status of what's his name, the acorn guy, the one on trial now.

It's easy to imagine it as a hoax tho, in retrospect.

However, it's going to add just another poison pill to the media problem that we already have - and increase the crazy.

Altho, comparing the two videos linked, I'm not immediately convinced Andy Bichbaum (if thats his real name) and Alessio Rastani (if thats his real name) are the same person. The tones and sounds in the voice are different, the mouth shape is different, Bichbaum looks older, tho that could be makeup.

Acting training could explain the differences - one can practice speaking differently and holding one's face in different patterns.

and...

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/...ts-a-recession

and this.....

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/pe...d-2361937.html

Let me remind you. This is the internet. Every piece of information you cut and paste is available to everyone that posts at GFY. You consistently confuse your interpretation of this information as fact.

.

so you are saying only you know the facts? Then you know the wars werent on the books until barry came on board.

Okay? Then use it to prove me wrong.....

I didn't cut and paste anything.

I'm not confused at all, Obama has not spent 4 trillion dollars.

That's what your claim was, and it's grossly incorrect.

I know that the internet is an enormous source of information. I also know how to use Google. I read yours and others points of views and find it interesting at how the world has changed since the internet came to be.

You read a blog,or a news related site. You cherry pick someones version of the *facts* then regurgitate it as something that you believe. That's fine. But consider your sources and consider that for every source you put up as the truth,that there is someone with a completely contradicting version.

We understand that you are a huge fan of Obama. That's your right. You and the doc,can read blogs and type your opinions forever. It won't change anyones mind or opinion. And certainly won't change my mind.

Personally,I think he has done a poor job. I think he was in over his head and hope he either raises his game a lot and that he does it soon. Or I hope he is a one term president.

So it is your opinion that I'm incorrect... that's basically what you just said.


Politifact and factcheck contain sources..... look up what you said, to prove yourself wrong.

Could you show me where I quote blogs, posted a link to political blogs, or even talk about them? Because again, you would be very incorrect on where or how I get my information.

Personally, I don't give a shit about Obama, didn't vote for him, and wouldn't. My posts are here to show you how screwed up your sources are... and if you think he spent 4 trillion dollars, that says something about your sources.

Yes, I know it's Fox news, they are the one that spews that b.s. - because if you actually looked it up, you wouldn't repeat it anymore.

Again,you have strong opinions.
You can be as right as you need to be.
I have an early flight in the morning.

Put up or shut up, straight up... otherwise you are just running your mouth.

"Public records show Mr. Rastani, 34, has been an investment speaker for Santoro Projects in Britain since 2007."

at the bottom of this page - so - either exploited someone elses name, or, not a yes men hoax.

http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2011/09/...der-interview/

Or more bad info.

hey Minte, look what I found in a 30 second google search:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123137375313762735.html
"""The Congressional Budget Office released its latest budget forecast yesterday, and we now really do have red ink as far as the eye can see. Thanks to a 6.6% decline in revenues due to recession, a spending increase of some $500 billion or 19%, and assorted federal bailouts, the U.S. deficit for fiscal 2009 (ending September 30) will nearly triple to $1.19 trillion. That's 8.3% of GDP, which CBO says "will most likely shatter the previous post-World War II record high of 6.0 percent posted in 1983." It certainly blows away any deficit this decade, not to mention the Reagan years when smaller deficits were the media cause celebre."""
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Un...federal_budget
2009 deficit spending: $1.4 trillion
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Un...federal_budget
2010 deficit spending: $1.17 trillion
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Un...federal_budget
2011 deficit spending: $1.6 trillion.
Minte, being a successful business owner, I'm sure you can do the math but indulge me.....
1.4 trillion plus 1.17 trillion plus 1.6 trillion = $4.17 trillion dollars obama has raised the debt by. faster than any other president in history.

so in conclusion, Minte, You are right.
don't bother arguing with me, you're right.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH..... I mean come on, you can't be that damn stupid... but I guess you are.

Fuck I have to laugh again... hahahaha.. wow, hahaha. You really showed your lack of education on this one. No wonder fox news can brainwash you idiots so fast...

hahahahahaha...

Let's add up the total budget and say Obama spent that...

No way.. just no way, hahaha.

hahahahaha... shit I can't stop laughing.

It is a standard rhetorical technique, lies damned lies and statistics; and it would naturally be teaparty crack.

But just laughing at it is not rhetorically strong either.

Not that you have any chance of persuading or communicating with the teaparty anti-"hussein" crowd - but that's not the goal, and they aren't the target.

This is on NPR...serious leftwing the article was written in January of this year and at that time Obama's debt was $3.5T

http://www.npr.org/2011/01/25/133211...s-bush-on-debt

This is from CBS not quite as liberal as NPR but close. It was published a month ago.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_1...04-503544.html

thedoc. Internet intellectuals don't impress anyone but other internet intellectuals.
Your lol posts say more than enough about where you are in the world.

CNN seems to think Rastani is real, not a yes men prank. Someone there interviewed him - one would think if it was a yes men hoax that would have been confirmed by now.

He does not seem to be a very credible trader tho. He's an "amateur trader" - why the bbc interviewed him is to my mind the mystery of the day.

There's a video. He does not look or speak like Bichbaum.

http://www.cnn.com/2011/09/28/world/...-trader-viral/

Let's see - is it worth my while to discuss this with you? You have basically just repeated the argument 12clicks made about gross numbers, without modifying it with the counterargument thedoc rather feebly made about the difference between gross numbers authorized by congress and specific numbers that could be extracted from bills obama wrote above and beyond the bills written by congress and past administrations.

Thing is, I despise that uncle tom obama, and I don't care what rhetorical trickery you use to attack him. I want him to lose in 2012, and you teaparty nutjobs to take over, because the shit is about to hit the fan and I would enjoy watching the party of no ideas getting stuck with the shitstorm.

Deficit spending doesn't matter in a time of massive planetary economic crisis - and the fact that your kind has been able to make people believe that it does furthers my interests, because your delusion will make the big collapse happen faster.

So, no, I don't care if you are able to baffle people with bullshit.

Now, if you started talking about the economy in a way that made any sense, I would get interested in discussing the pros and cons of whatever plan you described.

You can go ahead and pretend deficits are important - while rome burns.

Funny how just a few years ago the Right were all behind Dick Cheney when he said, specifically, that deficits don't matter, but now that the Left is in the White House, it's the fucking end of the world!

Every news organization and website in the world besides redstate, worldnetdaily and faux news.

oddly, back then, in the time before the crisis, deficits actually did matter.

The time to spend money like a drunken father is when theres a crisis to solve, not when you wnat to have a big party and a few fake wars.

But we overspent for pleasure - now when we need it it's not so easy.

But, there is still available to us the cheapest money to borrow and spend any of us have ever seen in our lifetime.

Your command of the facts and ability to fashion a coherent argument to support your position is clearly on display as usual. :winkwink:

There is a terrible irony in all this.

Suppose the fox-controlled republicans are able to exploit obama's uncletomisn and win in 2012. Seems unlikely given their candidates, a pathetic bunch of idiots and no-idea fanatics, but lets say it happens.

The republicans will then immediately do the only logical thing, which is to borrow the cheapest money the world has ever seen and spend it as fast as possible. Trillions of it.

The democrats, who actually care about the country, and are unwilling to hold the people hostage, will have to go along. (well, their corporate masters and donors will make them go along - the passive dem pols are a bunch of fucking traitors, the lot of them.)

This will basically all be the fault of the obamanuts - who kept saying "give him time, he'll start to fight any day now.".

ironic.

It will be funny tho, to watch all the fox followers shut their little parrot yaps about deficits.

We could take bets on what the fox parrots will be told to do next by murdoch and ailes... They won't be allowed to talk about deficits.

The point is,that no one knows the numbers. The next point is that not just FOX news believes that this administration has buried the country in record debt. I only posted 2 quick links from the left. So the national perception is that this administration has added 4 trillion to the national debt.

I have over 2 decades of experience running a business. I know most if not all of the accounting tricks. I also know that you and thedoc don't know what the absolute real numbers are. Neither do I or 12clicks.

You called me a tea party member. That is incorrect. I am not religeous. I am not happy about working for the government until May every year and anyone that says they are I would question their mental status.

Try reading back a few posts.... and that claim works two ways.

Also, are you saying that you can simply add up the budget and get how much Obama spent? Because I'll laugh at your ass too....

Oh boo hoo hoo, you aren't happy about paying taxes, isn't that just so sad.

That's just immature petulance. Nobody likes to pay taxes, but we like living in a society that is rich.

This anti-tax bullshit is just another unimtelligent, unthinking, childish dogma that your side is using to distort the national conversation and attempt to seize power again - and when you do your kind will spend just like before, and pig out at the trough just like before.

It's empty rhetoric. Your kind won't ever refuse to take the benefits of taxes. You will always start your wars and hand out that pork. You know people are selfish and can be manipulated thru their selfishness, and you do so with naked ambition.

Not that my pointing out the immaturity will change anything.

I want your kind to seize power again. But don't think you fool anybody with this anti-tax nonsense. It's sophmoric.

Presumably you know who Bruce Bartlett is.

http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/20...unlucky-ducky/

after that long read ... AMEN! right to the money! you nail it :2 cents::warning

LOL, NPR did a brilliant job... let's add up the difference AND they totally ignored the real war costs, truly, lol..... I don't even need to read the cbs one. And yes, I find it VERY funny that the number 4 trillion is repeated through the brainwashed masses without a second thought... no worries, I find it equally sad as well.

I'm not here to impress anyone, I post here for pure sure self entertainment value.

Where am I in the world? Not sure what the statement means exactly, but I live in Arizona.


I know the numbers aren't 4 trillion or 3.5 trillion, and I never claimed to know them exactly... However I know the range, I also told you where you could find information on it as well, I've posted it about 15 times on this forum, now I just laugh at the request... what can I do, most of you (not saying you) just ignore it and keep on the same war path..

Truly, I can only laugh at this point.

Nailed what?

Free markets don't exist, have never existed, and the odds are microscopic that they ever will exist.

It makes just as much sense to talk about how the green cheese of the moon could solve world hunger.

Have you been to the moon to prove it's not true? :1orglaugh

When you say my kind,you mean the people who cover the costs that the majority of the population takes for granted? I could move my businesses to Mexico and put many many more dollars into my pocket. What would a couple of hundred more unemployed Americans mean to anyone?

Yet, I stay in Wis. one of the highest taxed states in the nation and do the right thing. My company pays 70% of our employees health insurance. We contribute to their 401ks,we give them free dental and life insurance. We have been fortunate,and have done well and are once again paying out to the emplyees in a profit sharing plan.

What I say to your kind is you all talk a good fight, but never do you deliver the goods.
Talk is cheap. Cover a six figure payroll every week and make damn sure the government gets there share every week then come talk to me. Small business didn't get handouts. We took risks and worked harder.

you fucking leftys make me laugh.

None of you have a clue why the tea party happened. look at the timeline. Tea party started to become politically relevant the exact moment deficits went from 3-400 billion to 1.4 trillion & beyond, approximately early 2009. There was a tea party-like entity before that, mostly ron paul dead enders. The deficit was not wide enough, the debt not big enough, to antagonize a revolt inside the republican party.

Thats what happened when the wall street bailouts started. the conservatives went bezerk at the bailouts & the explosion in the deficit. This event radicalized the conservatives into the tea party, on the basis that spending is lavishly out of control...the govt spends 42% of its total budget with debt. The national debt, as an entity, has become as large as the entire economy & is growing a lot faster then it. So Bill8 saying deficit spending doesnt matter? LOL.

tea party is like a cancer...something that revolts inside a body, is created by an unhealthy imbalance in that body. Exactly like cheeseburgers lead to cancer, so does deficit spending. Just like chris christie is addicted to cheesburgers, democrats (& the old guard repubs) are addicted to spending, & antagonized the tea partys radicalism.

be assured, bill8, that if the tea party gets into power, they will not pig out at the trough. they, like abortion activists, are a 1 issue entity. That issue is spending.

Please people, have fun debating this stuff. stop using such hate. both parties eat at the trough of the elite & have warped the world to funnel all the wealth to the ecclestone sisters. Tea party should cave on taxes, dems should cave on spending, both parties should put voters in front of lobby money. Will it happen? no. so carry on blaming just the tea party & repubs for all the problems. its entertaining.

While I don't think you're one of those people.....

However thinking you pay for everyone else is kinda pathetic... everything you have, ever done, ever will do, was paid for by past generations of people that paid a hell of a lot more of our money into taxes than any of us today.

You could move your business to Mexico and live in Wis? Yeah.... have fun in that shit hole.

Btw, no reason to pull the big dicks out, while 200 staff is nice, you're no different than the guy with 1 employee and no money left over. At that, it's kinda dick to say come talk to you after they do six figures a week... that's like saying come talk to me when you finally reach my sales level, it's just dick... even though its correct.

Statistically, Republican controlled congress and Presidents have spent far more than Democrats. It's been posted here, many, many, many times...

And no, I don't care which has done it more, just pointing it for you, it's an fyi only.

that being historically correct, you are referring to the other side of the tea party...the bob dole/george bush republicans. Dick cheney is in that mix. The politicians from that era are losing power. Witness how eric cantor basically vetoed john boners effort to compromise with obama. The republican brand is now associated with the failures of the Bush administration, so everyone who wants power in the party now affiliates themselves to the tea party idealogy.

mmmmm, roasted chicken...

http://scaryreasoner.files.wordpress...ed_chicken.jpg

Which of the elected "tea party" members have actually cut spending?

Your kind is the republican voter. And the kind of person who uses a releatively immature form of anti-tax rhetoric, while taking advantage of all the things all our taxes provide. Your kind, the republican voters, want to keep yours, and take everyone elses too, without paying for it, while you are at it.

You know how I can determine your anti-tax rhetoric is immature? You never clearly state what you want to cut. You state no policy for the low tax starved government you want to see.

If you want to man up and say what the fuck you want to cut so you dont have to pay taxes, go ahead.

Dude, I've owned dozens of business in my time. I started out in the construction industry, owned between 5 and 7 different companies, depending on how you wnat to classify ownership and companies. Then moved into computer services for small businesses, and did that for a decade. Then moved into porn, and have done that for 12 years and going. Your talk about how I don't know about running businesses is just more lazy rhetoric.

I hated paying fucking taxes like fire, and still do. But I'm not a fucking baby about it, and I'm not going to pretend I don't get benefits from the taxes I pay.

Look, I don't mind that you hate the hahahahahahas and spics and poor shits. I personally don't know many and if you think you can fuck them go ahead. I don't care that much that you hate the old farts - my parents get the medicare and social security, but they also own teh family farm outright, they should be okay, and besides they will be dead soon.

I don't care who you hate, ultimately - just don't think you can spin out this wahwah boohoo anti-tax bullshit and have anybody who has really thought about it take you seriously.

I'm not a lefty in any sense you would understand that word. If the republicans weren't antiscience, and were talking about creating the 21st century economy, I'd happily vote for them. That's not going to happen because you republican voters have decided to be religious fanatics and economic dolts. I despise the dems because they lied about starting work on the 21st century economy - but at the moment they are a better bet for eventually starting to create the new economy. But I will drop them the second somebody who isn't a corporate asslicker comes along.

The only thing I really care about is science, intelligence, and the new economy. I don't care who you hate, and you are welcome to kill anybody you like, as long as you create the new economy.

I love guys who barely have a pot to piss in talking about how much their betters should pay in taxes.