Originally Posted by Squirtit (Post 18446936)

WOW! No matter her political affiliation this woman has it right and expresses herself without myopic indignation towards anyone, just the facts. She rocks!

This would be a great beginning to a new contract with America. A new commitment to balance in our country. :thumbsup

Originally Posted by Dvae (Post 18446964)

What it shows is she has no idea what it takes to start a business, has never owned one or she would not be saying what she's saying.

She has spent her entire life in the university system or some government job doing who knows what which in both cases the capitalism that she puts down has allowed her to live a pretty comfortable lifestyle including retirement and benefits.

Originally Posted by nation-x (Post 18446977)

The difference is that he was referring to Capital Gains tax (which oddly enough wasn't included in that CBO estimate) vs. Individual Income Tax rates... and I am quite certain that when he was referring to middle class he was referring to people like me who earn between $84k and $250k.

Originally Posted by nation-x (Post 18446977)

Republicans don't do anything... nothing... zero... to help small business owners like me. They only help out huge corporations that they call "small businesses". They FUCK small business owners like me right in the buttcrack.

Originally Posted by Dvae (Post 18447002)

I think most do, have you ever heard of charity?

And giving money to charity instead of the government which wastes something like 80 cents on the dollar to get it to those they are supposed to be helping. Most charities are a hell of a lot more efficient than that.

Originally Posted by 12clicks (Post 18447001)

I'm living in the non-ghetto part of america.
I'm sure where you live things are different.

Originally Posted by 12clicks (Post 18447003)

balance?
I missed the part where she asked 50% of us now paying nothing in income taxes to at least contribute a token amount.

Originally Posted by Dvae (Post 18447002)

I think most do, have you ever heard of charity?

And giving money to charity instead of the government which wastes something like 80 cents on the dollar to get it to those they are supposed to be helping.

Originally Posted by Dvae (Post 18447002)

Most charities are a hell of a lot more efficient than that.

Originally Posted by 12clicks (Post 18446832)

listen, we're all very proud of your $30k a year. I'm sure its the best you can do and I applaud people who do their best.
However, again, the greatest difference between you and I is that I applaud those in the top .1% and I don't believe they should pay a dime more in tax then they do.
You, who aren't in the top 1% scream that your betters should pay more.
when you're successful, you have no time for envy. when you're not, for some people, its all consuming.

oh, and its a good thing you don't need $350k to live on because I guess that means you couldn't live.
making the pittance you do and all.

Originally Posted by 12clicks (Post 18446909)

I wish I paid 17%. isn't that neat!

we can all wish but the fact remains that the CBO says when adding all taxes together, the effective rate that the top 1% pays is much higher than the middle class pays, regardless of the lies obama trots out.

but look how he's succeeded in making you think otherwise.

Originally Posted by Dvae (Post 18446964)

What it shows is she has no idea what it takes to start a business, has never owned one or she would not be saying what she's saying.

She has spent her entire life in the university system or some government job doing who knows what which in both cases the capitalism that she puts down has allowed her to live a pretty comfortable lifestyle including retirement and benefits.

Originally Posted by Squirtit (Post 18447034)

57% of American businesses pay no income tax. The point your trying to prove it moot.

Her ethics are clear and encourage the balance of give and take on all sides.

Why would you argue against balance?

Originally Posted by tony286 (Post 18447133)

Actually not true:
Elizabeth Warren was born Elizabeth Herring in Oklahoma City, the daughter of middle class parents Pauline and Donald Herring.[7] When Warren was twelve, her father had a heart attack which led to a pay cut, excessive medical bills, and eventually the loss of their car. Her mother went to work answering phones at Sears and Warren worked as a waitress.[8] She graduated from Northwest Classen High School in 1966 on a full debate scholarship and attended George Washington University, where she debated for them. At that time most scholarships were athletic scholarships for boys, and there were few girls on the debate teams as well. At 19 she married Jim Warren; they divorced in 1979.[9] She graduated in 1970 with a degree in speech pathology and audiology and worked with children who had head trauma and other kinds of brain injuries. [10] Warren went on to study law at the Rutgers School of Law?Newark, where she served as an editor of the Rutgers Law Review, and was one of two female summer associates at Cadwalader, Wickersham & Taft's Wall Street office.[11] She received her Juris Doctor in 1976. After law school, Warren worked from home, writing wills and doing real estate closings for walk-in clients.[9]
Warren is married to Bruce Mann, a legal historian and law professor also at Harvard Law School. She has a daughter, Amelia Warren Tyagi, with whom she has coauthored two books and several articles, and a son, Alexander Warren. She has taught Sunday School and cites Methodist founder John Wesley as an inspiration.[3]

Originally Posted by TheDoc (Post 18447120)

Stop paying yourself so much and invest that money into dividend investments and you'll be paying below that very quick like. If you actually did it right, you could take almost no real personal income, still collect that much if not more, and pay half of what you do now.

That's what I love about you... you're this mighty killer business 1% dude that knows it all but yet can't figure out how this game actually works so you aren't taxed for shit anymore.

Thing is, if you REALLY made that much, even a low level CPA would be on your ass to lesson your tax burden, and you would know this stuff inside and out.

I'm just some lowly $30k a year nobody and even my CPA is on my ass for this.

Originally Posted by Squirtit (Post 18447058)

Businesses only make up 20% of total contributions to charity. 80% is done by the individual.



Really? Post links to those stats please. :1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

Originally Posted by 12clicks (Post 18447196)

I love how the bottom wage earners trot out the imaginary tax breaks and good CPA nonsense when talking to their betters.

yes son, we all got the top 1% because you know more than us and our collective CPA firms.:1orglaugh

you're an endless source of entertainment.

Originally Posted by TheDoc (Post 18447065)

Even if I only made $30k a year, it's equally as beneficial and important as those in the top .1%. Without those $30k a year people to buy the shit of the top .1%, the top .1% wouldn't have shit for money.....

Originally Posted by TheDoc (Post 18447065)

Ahhhh, so I think paying up in scale is fair and you don't think it's fair, that some how I don't applaud those that do well? That's probably the stupidest mentality I've ever heard from you.

Originally Posted by TheDoc (Post 18447065)

How about this... I see it as what it is, the more money you make, the more you used the systems around you and the people - even those that never worked for you, to help build your wealth. So pretending like you owe nothing to anyone but yourself, just makes you a jackass that doesn't deserve anything you have.

Originally Posted by TheDoc (Post 18447065)

That doesn't mean I don't applaud those that do well.. however I'm not going continue to applaud them once they start to fuck everyone else over, once the ego kicks in and they think it's all, me, me, me... because it NEVER was just them.

Originally Posted by TheDoc (Post 18447224)

Hahahahahahahaha... imaginary. Why don't you go look at what the tax rate is on dividend earnings and capital gains tax on investments, I mean come on... this isn't rocket science here, and that's the bottom of the barrel of possibilities.

This is funny - you're suck a fake, if not you really a complete idiot. You probably put all the money directly into your personal bank account too. Hahahahaha... No wait, you're one of those safe guys aren't you? Earning interest in your local vault so you don't get taxed, twice or some lame excuse... haha.

You deserve to be taxed at an effective tax rate of 31% if this is how your handle money, if you're that stupid, you deserve to be taxed more.

Originally Posted by 12clicks (Post 18447178)

if your 57% number is true, which I doubt, the owners of those businesses pay an effective tax rate of 31% while you pay ZERO.
is that balance where you're from? here in the real world, it isn't.

Originally Posted by 12clicks (Post 18447178)

the owners of those businesses pay an effective tax rate of 31%

Originally Posted by 12clicks (Post 18447178)

while you pay ZERO. is that balance where you're from? here in the real world, it isn't.

Originally Posted by 12clicks (Post 18447233)

no, sorry. lemmings are easily replaced by the very next guy in line. People who create multi-million dollar businesses and hire employees, are way more important. Without them, the lemmings would just run in circles waiting to be lead.


as I've already sited the CBO numbers showing you that its already this way, you have no point. Your incessant ramblings about what your betters should pay shows envy, not applause.


again, dear lemming, no one is calling for your betters to pay nothing. We're just pointing out that we already pay enough. You on the other hand, want to lie and say you somehow pay your fair share when that share probably wouldn't pay for a good bottle of wine.


ahhhh, the imaginary "fuck every over" because you've failed where your betters have succeeded.
son, I know its tough for you to watch people pass you by but its just life. We all rise to the heights our intelligence and abilities allow us to. The key is to not fault others for what are merely your own limitations.
success isn't for everyone.

Originally Posted by 12clicks (Post 18447240)

here, lemming. let me dumb it down for you.
I have EARNED income. that puts me in the top 1% No matter how much I invest, my investment earnings will not overtake the earned income.

I understand that when imagining what your betters are doing, its easy to imagine incorrectly but then, I'm not the one fleeing to canada for that country's handouts.

Originally Posted by Dvae (Post 18447220)

Originally Posted by Dvae (Post 18447220)

Originally Posted by TheDoc (Post 18447248)

Small business provides more jobs than big business and most small business owners are not in the top 1%.

The CBO numbers show you're wrong... that the higher the rate the actual less they pay percentage wise.

No, "they" do not pay enough based on what they take out... you aren't part of them.


It's funny to watch you pretend to be something you're not. Not smart enough to invest more, not smart enough to lower your tax burden... you actually believe it's bullshit, and that's all the proof I need to know you're completely full of shit.

Originally Posted by 12clicks (Post 18447019)

while we're at it, please explain how democrats have helped small businesses like you.

Originally Posted by Small Business Jobs Act

Extension of Successful SBA Recovery Loan Provisions —Immediately Supporting Loans to Over 1,400 Small Businesses: With funds provided in the bill, SBA will begin funding new Recovery loans within a few days of the President’s signature, starting with the more than 1,400 businesses – with loans totaling more than $730 million – that are waiting in the Recovery Loan Queue. In total, the extension of these provisions provides the capacity to support $14 billion in loans to small businesses. The SBA Recovery loan provisions have already supported $30 billion in lending to over 70,000 small business.

A More Than Doubling of the Maximum Loan Size for The Largest SBA Programs:The bill also increases the maximum loan size for SBA loan programs, which in the coming weeks will allow more small businesses to access more credit to allow them to expand and create new jobs. The bill will permanently raise the maximum size for SBA’s two largest loan programs, increasing the maximum 7(a) and 504 loans from $2 million to $5 million, and the maximum 504 manufacturing related loan from $4 million to $5.5 million. In addition, it will temporarily increase the maximum loan size for SBA Express loans from $350,000 to $1 million, providing greater access to working capital loans that small businesses use to purchase new inventory and take on their next order – allowing them to create new jobs.

A New $30 Billion Small Business Lending Fund:The bill would establish a new $30 billion Small Business Lending Fund which – by providing capital to small banks with incentives to increase small business lending – could support several multiples of that amount in new credit.

An Initiative to Strengthen Innovative State Small Business Programs – Supporting Over $15 Billion in Lending:The bill will support at least $15 billion in small business lending through a new State Small Business Credit Initiative, strengthening state small business programs that leverage private-sector lenders to extend additional credit – many of which have been forced to cut back due to budget cuts.

Eight New Small Business Tax Cuts – Effective Today, Providing Immediate Incentives to Invest: The President had already signed into law eight small business tax cuts, and on Monday, he is signing into law another eight new tax cuts that go into effect immediately.

Zero Taxes on Capital Gains from Key Small Business Investments:Under the Recovery Act, 75 percent of capital gains on key small business investments this year were excluded from taxes. The Small Business Jobs Act temporarily puts in place for the rest of 2010 a provision called for by the President – elimination of all capital gains taxes on these investments if held for five years. Over one million small businesses are eligible to receive investments this year that, if held for five years or longer, could be completely excluded from any capital gains taxation.

Extension and Expansion of Small Businesses’ Ability to Immediately Expense Capital Investments: The bill increases for 2010 and 2011 the amount of investments that businesses would be eligible to immediately write off to $500,000, while raising the level of investments at which the write-off phases out to $2 million. Prior to the passage of the bill, the expensing limit would have been $250,000 this year, and only $25,000 next year. This provision means that 4.5 million small businesses and individuals will be able to make new business investments today and know that they will earn a larger break on their taxes for this year.

Extension of 50% Bonus Depreciation: The bill extends – as the President proposed in his budget – a Recovery Act provision for 50 percent “bonus depreciation” through 2010, providing 2 million businesses, large and small, with the ability to make new investments today and know they can receive a tax cut for this year by accelerating the rate at which they deduct capital expenditures.

A New Deduction of Health Insurance Costs for Self-Employed:The bill allows 2 million self-employed to know that on their taxes for this year, they can get a deduction for the cost of health insurance for themselves and their family members in calculating their self-employment taxes. This provision is estimated to provide over $1.9 billion in tax cuts for these entrepreneurs.

Tax Relief and Simplification for Cell Phone Deductions:The bill changes rules so that the use of cell phones can be deducted without burdensome extra documentation – making it easier for virtually every small business in America to receive deductions that they are entitled to, beginning on their taxes for this year.

An Increase in the Deduction for Entrepreneurs’ Start-Up Expenses:The bill temporarily increases the amount of start-up expenditures entrepreneurs can deduct from their taxes for this year from $5,000 to $10,000 (with a phase-out threshold of $60,000 in expenditures), offering an immediate incentive for someone with a new business idea to invest in starting up a new small business today.

A Five-Year Carryback Of General Business Credits:The bill would allow certain small businesses to “carry back” their general business credits to offset five years of taxes – providing them with a break on their taxes for this year – while also allowing these credits to offset the Alternative Minimum Tax, reducing taxes for these small businesses.

Limitations on Penalties for Errors in Tax Reporting That Disproportionately Affect Small Business:The bill would change, beginning this year, the penalty for failing to report certain tax transactions from a fixed dollar amount – which was criticized for imposing a disproportionately large penalty on small businesses in certain circumstances – to a percentage of the tax benefits from the transaction.

Originally Posted by 12clicks (Post 18447196)

I love how the bottom wage earners trot out the imaginary tax breaks and good CPA nonsense when talking to their betters.

yes son, we all got the top 1% because you know more than us and our collective CPA firms.:1orglaugh

you're an endless source of entertainment.

Originally Posted by 12clicks (Post 18447262)

as I said, lemming. I know from your perspective, being in the top 1% is like having a billion cajillion dollars but here amongst the successful, its not that big a deal.

oh, and lets rub your nose in the CBO's facts again:

Lowest quintile (23.4 million taxpayers), zero to $18,900: 4.3 percent
Second lowest quintile (22.4 million), $18,900-$32,100: 10.2 percent
Middle quintile (22.9 million), $32,100-$47,400: 14.2 percent
Fourth quintile (23 million), $47,400-$71,200: 17.6 percent
Highest quintile (23.6 million), above $71,200: 25.8 percent
Top 10 percent (12 million), minimum income of $98,100: 27.5 percent
Top 5 percent (5.9 million), minimum income of $134,400: 29 percent
Top 1 percent (1.1 million), minimum income of $332,300: 31.2 percent


while you pay 4.3% I'm paying 31.2% but you argue that I don't pay enough.
its why the rabble are the rabble.:thumbsup

Originally Posted by 12clicks (Post 18447262)

rabble are the rabble

Originally Posted by 12clicks

the owners of those businesses pay an effective tax rate of 31%

Originally Posted by Squirtit (Post 18447241)

I
Post links to substantiate your "effective take rate of 31% for American businesses"

Originally Posted by 12clicks

nation-x, please explain how republicans have fucked small business owners like you.

while we're at it, please explain how democrats have helped small businesses like you.

Originally Posted by nation-x (Post 18447276)

rabble rabble rabble

Originally Posted by 12clicks (Post 18447284)

question:


answer:



this is what you get when you ask an uneducated liberal a serious question.
This was your opportunity to explain yourself intelligently.
I'm sure you did your best.:1orglaugh

Originally Posted by TheDoc (Post 18447280)

Actually I'm wrong about 12clicks...

What a nice guy to help out us bottom feeders by paying a full 31% of his personal income in taxes. What a guy, what a champ...

While most higher income earners pay less than half of what he does percentage wise, he's the man, he knows what's up, he knows without his help, we would all be fucked.

Amazing business ethics, no wait, personal ethics... truly amazing. :1orglaugh

Originally Posted by MisterPeabody (Post 18447286)

I just incorporated. I have a CPA who is an Economics Professor at Rutgers University. She lectures about this shit all the time.

TheDoc is right, 12Clicks is wrong.

Carry on.

Originally Posted by 12clicks (Post 18447287)

:1orglaugh

I guess in idiotville they have their own set of CBO numbers.

Here in the real world, losers run to canada for the free handouts.:thumbsup

Originally Posted by TheDoc (Post 18447296)

I paid taxes in Canada dip shit.... nothing was free but it damn sure was better.

Originally Posted by TheDoc (Post 18447280)

Actually I'm wrong about 12clicks...

What a nice guy to help out us bottom feeders by paying a full 31% of his personal income in taxes. What a guy, what a champ...

While most higher income earners pay less than half of what he does percentage wise, he's the man, he knows what's up, he knows without his help, we would all be fucked.

Amazing business ethics, no wait, personal ethics... truly amazing. :1orglaugh

Originally Posted by TheDoc (Post 18447285)

He answered you here..... https://gfy.com/showpost.php?p=18447269&postcount=105

Originally Posted by Mutt (Post 18447301)

the top 1% of earners in the US quoted earlier in this thread have a minimum income of 332K a year - people making 332-500K a year are lawyers, accountants, consultants, doctors, dentists, veterinarians etc - professionals. you think those people are paying less than half of 31% in personal income taxes? i think you're very wrong for that group.