it might be something for the bottom to ponder but the successful already know the answer.
The rich already pay for just about everything. The pittance you pay is nothing more than a token so you can say "I pay taxes"
Singling out one segment of the population, pretending they don't pay enough when they actually pay far more than you, is classic class war fare.
When we as a whole, can't afford something, we as a whole, either go without it or we as a whole pay more for it. This nonsense that just because I worked harder than you and did better than you means I should be forced to pay more than you is exactly why we're in this mess.
If you were forced to pay the actual costs of your portion of the things you voted for, you would have voted for a lot less spending.

the end.

this is another leftist fairy tale.
lets put it to rest right now. please note the date of the article as well.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...d0iK_blog.html

When you add up all of the various taxes, and look at the effective tax rates, it is clear the tax system is already pretty progressive. Everyone pays some tax, even those who pay no federal income taxes, and the wealthiest pay a larger percentage share of taxes. Here?s the effective tax rate for all of the groups, according to the CBO:
Lowest quintile (23.4 million taxpayers), zero to $18,900: 4.3 percent
Second lowest quintile (22.4 million), $18,900-$32,100: 10.2 percent
Middle quintile (22.9 million), $32,100-$47,400: 14.2 percent
Fourth quintile (23 million), $47,400-$71,200: 17.6 percent
Highest quintile (23.6 million), above $71,200: 25.8 percent
Top 10 percent (12 million), minimum income of $98,100: 27.5 percent
Top 5 percent (5.9 million), minimum income of $134,400: 29 percent
Top 1 percent (1.1 million), minimum income of $332,300: 31.2 percent

True but it was alot more than they pay now.And I respect you are on the right but stop pretending you are one of the ultra rich. You arent near the class of the hedge fund guy who makes a 1 billion a year. Its not about welfare its about paying for the wars. And you owe a large chunk of your wealth to the gov. If it wasnt for gov funding, no net, no big bucks for the clickster:_)

One of the main problem is a perception issue.

The vast majority of americans sees themselves as being over tax, but when you check with the rest of the world, they are among the less taxed in the industrial world.
(http://www.businessinsider.com/most-...e-world-2011-4)

As you can see, compare to the rest of the developed world, US is no way over taxed... In fact, several economist agrees that with a simple 4% sale tax on goods (only on things you buy, not on your income), US could completely trim down their current deficit to 0$ in less than 3 years...

As for the solution to the actual economy issues, for those who see Obama plan as a "stupid" plan, it's interesting to compare it to the recommendation of Stiglitz (Economy Nobel prize). I guess Stiglitz is another stupid facist-communist...
http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/daily...120134116.html

Bottom line, US is in a really hard situation, the solution is not easy, sacrifice will need to be done and solely politically partisan actions (and inaction) like the ones of the Tea Party and some of the GOP will do nothing good for nobody beside their own selfish interests...

We are all in this with the great help of Bushy who took office with a well oil machine, cut the taxes, start two wars and unregulated the financial market while taking the most vacation days a president ever did and choking himself with a pretzel...
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/...n3927378.shtml

But it's so much easy to blame the current situation on the black man...

On a side note... Would you hit it?

I'd have to go with yes. She seems kinda scrappy ;)

So the top1% guy get's the tax benefits of the lowest, second, middle, fourth, highest, top 10 and top 5, then he gets hit with the 31.2%... so really, it's not 31.2% at all, it's more like 20% for the top 1% and slowly goes down as your income does.

The top 1% get the same tax benefits of everyone else... they don't get taxed 31.2% on the first $20k, it's 100% equal with the poor on that income level.

Best part is, we don't really have to raise taxes, just undo the tax cut Bush did... put it back to how it was, "before you bitched about it" and our spending to income ratio flips back around.

Sorry to burst your bubble, tubby but I'm in the top 1%. higher than that actually but they don't break it down further than that. Compared to YOU, I AM ultra rich. You need to pay for the wars too.
And trust me son, just as you'd be a lemming in any industry, I'd be an owner in any industry, Internet or no.

Someone needs a dictionary to understand what "effective tax rate" means.

And hey, if you're for letting ALL of the bush tax cuts expire, you'd have a position worthy of an American but I'm betting that's not what you're for.

So why does it confuse you so much then? You seem to think it's unfair... thing is, you're not in the top 1% and no matter how much you pay in taxes, it means someone else also paid your way, far more than you did.

Yet you're so stuck on the bottom 50% that you don't realize it happens at every tax bracket below the top 1%, and each scale down it repeats.

So how does it taste to suck off the tit of the ultra rich? It really makes no difference if you pay in or if you're even in the top 1% - the super rich pay that much more than you do at that - they've been doing it longer, for generations at times.... everything you have is because of someone richer than you, clearly being that the poor never paid for anything.

Guess you arent up on current events. Ive lost over 190 lbs so far. Im worker , a hard worker I take no shame in that. And I dont think you have would been as successful without the net. You can kid yourself all you want.I pay taxes every year no free ride here. Now insulting me doesnt make you more right.

First of all... you provide an opinion piece as proof... typical for conservatives. Secondly, if you didn't notice, all of those numbers are from a 3 year old report. We were talking about income tax... not excise tax. This is a perfect example of how conservatives try to muddy the water... if you want to include all taxes, there are alot of taxes that hit lower income people much harder than the wealthy purely because it's a much larger percentage of their income. Gas tax, sales tax, etc.

Here is the title of the report from the CBO that he is reporting from:

"Historical Effective Federal Tax Rates: 1979 to 2006"

Now... look at the report... specifically the line where it says "Individual Income Taxes".

Top 10%: 16.0
Top 5%: 17.5
Top 1%: 19.0

Which part of that did you miss. The average of those 3 is 17.5%. If you want to quibble over .5% we can.

12Click, stop crying... you are not tax that much compare to the rest of the world...
http://www.businessinsider.com/most-...e-world-2011-4

And if you are so wealthy as you brag about, it shouldn't change anything to you isn't it?

uh, I know you seem that being in the top 1% is like making a billion cajillion dollars but that's why you basically have no understanding of the tax structure.

And the difference between you (and the rest of the rabble) and I is that I applaud those who make more than I do. You envy them and despise their abilities.
look how you envy me. :winkwink:

Interesting... I'll have to dig into that for a bit.

I put food in that category as well, the more money I've made the less I noticed what I spent on food - until we went into health mode. But when I was younger, right after the military, having $20 left over after bills sure made food one expensive little bastard to deal with - that was before gas too.

no, sorry, dopey. the opinion piece sited the CBO's numbers.
If you were interested in understanding what you're arguing about, you'd have read it. But you're not. you're interested in having the government take a pound of flesh from the successful that your envy wants but your abilities can't take on your own.

your numbers are vastly outdated. They're from 2006. Mine are from 2 days ago.

oh, and again we have another liberal who either doesn't understand, or pretends not to understand what "effective tax rate" means.

Way to spin... I would be willing to bet I actually pay a larger percentage of my income in taxes than you do... so you can continue with that bullshit ignorant insult game you always play when you are proven wrong if you want... but these number are from the CBO report that the report you linked to is quoting. So... those ARE your numbers... Richie Rich.

So sad.... Let me educate you more. The top 1% breaks down even more... that 1.1 million people goes so far up in scale. It's funny to watch you pretend to be one of them.

The top .1% - that's 100% no you and never will be - pay more taxes than 10x of your lives, so stop pretending like your shit don't stink buddy, you're a bottom sucker like the rest of us compared to the truly wealthy.

I don't go around pretending I make enough to pay myself 15 million a year... at that, I'm not an idiot, I don't need $350k a year to live on, any smart person would re-invest that money into lower tax burden incomes rather than being a fool and paying full personal tax rates on it.... is that you 12clicks?

lets have more fun at the expense of the dumb

which part of the following sentence excluded gas tax sales tax etc.:

"""When you add up all of the various taxes, and look at the effective tax rates, it is clear the tax system is already pretty progressive."""

oh, but you don't want to include excise tax because it works against your lie.
typical liberal nonsense.
"we need to count gas and sales tax because it helps my argument but no way to we count a tax that works against my argument"


intelligent people understand the meaning of "all" and "effective"

liberals seem to have trouble with those words.

listen, we're all very proud of your $30k a year. I'm sure its the best you can do and I applaud people who do their best.
However, again, the greatest difference between you and I is that I applaud those in the top .1% and I don't believe they should pay a dime more in tax then they do.
You, who aren't in the top 1% scream that your betters should pay more.
when you're successful, you have no time for envy. when you're not, for some people, its all consuming.

oh, and its a good thing you don't need $350k to live on because I guess that means you couldn't live.
making the pittance you do and all.

Look... I have no idea why you can't understand something as simple as this. You provided a link to an opinion piece that quoted that CBO report... it is linked from the article.

http://www.nation-x.com/taxes.png

You posted that article in response to me saying that people making above $250k/year pay an average of 17% in income taxes... go back and look. I showed you from your own article and the report it quoted that I was correct... the top 10% pay an average of 17.5% in individual income tax.... end if story.

You want to include Corporate Tax and Excise Tax... which has nothing to do with individual income taxes and the rate that will increase when the Bush Tax cuts expire.

well we're all very impressed by what you're willing to bet on a chatboard. the facts however remain.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...d0iK_blog.html

When you add up all of the various taxes, and look at the effective tax rates, it is clear the tax system is already pretty progressive. Everyone pays some tax, even those who pay no federal income taxes, and the wealthiest pay a larger percentage share of taxes. Here?s the effective tax rate for all of the groups, according to the CBO:
Lowest quintile (23.4 million taxpayers), zero to $18,900: 4.3 percent
Second lowest quintile (22.4 million), $18,900-$32,100: 10.2 percent
Middle quintile (22.9 million), $32,100-$47,400: 14.2 percent
Fourth quintile (23 million), $47,400-$71,200: 17.6 percent
Highest quintile (23.6 million), above $71,200: 25.8 percent
Top 10 percent (12 million), minimum income of $98,100: 27.5 percent
Top 5 percent (5.9 million), minimum income of $134,400: 29 percent
Top 1 percent (1.1 million), minimum income of $332,300: 31.2 percent

uh, again. you seem to misunderstand the term "all" as it relates to taxes. and "effective tax rate" as it relates to what is actually paid.

now because you want to imagine you're rantings are right, you want to just take the small sample of tax that proves your point. however, in the real world, each of us is responsible to pay ALL the tax we owe. not just the part that makes you look right.:thumbsup

No one is disputing that the wealthy pay a larger percent of total tax revenue that the government receives. They also earn more money than the entire lowest 50% of earners. I will quote Obama... "it's math". I happen to be good at math. It would seem that you would be as well so you can add up all of your cheese... but you are trying to create an equation that doesn't reflect reality.

Last time I checked, Ron... Corporations are their own entity... so how exactly do you get to add individual tax rates with corporate tax rates to come up with effective tax rates?

lets play even further.
from the chart, your bracket pays 3% (giving you the benefit of the doubt that you're in the 3rd quintile.
so how ever you want to cut it, your betters are paying percentage wise, about 6x more than you. any way you slice it, you don't pay nearly as much percentage wise or actual dollars than the top 1%, 5% or 10%

because as the owner of my corporation, I write a check out of the bank account I own and pay the government the tax my corporation owes. as the owner of the corp, the money, and the liability, I pay the tax.

If my corp doesn't pay the tax, who goes to jail, me or my corp?

get it?

yet another silly argument shot down.

I wish I paid 3%... that would be nice.

I pay self employment tax right off the top with no deductions (because I can't afford to pay $1250/month for major medical coverage after taxes) @ 15.3% before we even get to income. Granted, I get to write 50% of that off of my income tax. I paid 27.8% effective rate in 2010 including self employment tax in federal taxes. This will change because I started an S Corp but I will still pay a lot.

We're an individualistic society; I support the appropriate measure that benefits me. If I'm in the bottom percentile, I will support taxing the living hell out of the rich. If I'm in the top percentile, I will support tax breaks for me, and tax increases for the poor. :thumbsup

I wish I paid 17%. isn't that neat!

we can all wish but the fact remains that the CBO says when adding all taxes together, the effective rate that the top 1% pays is much higher than the middle class pays, regardless of the lies obama trots out.

but look how he's succeeded in making you think otherwise.

thats never been the american way. however, your username is quite apropos considering your post.

What America have you been living in? It's always been the American way to think of yourself first and everyone else second.

And yes, how clever to use my handle in an insult, you're the very first one to do it, really...:1orglaugh

WOW! No matter her political affiliation this woman has it right and expresses herself without myopic indignation towards anyone, just the facts. She rocks!

This would be a great beginning to a new contract with America. A new commitment to balance in our country. :thumbsup

What it shows is she has no idea what it takes to start a business, has never owned one or she would not be saying what she's saying.

She has spent her entire life in the university system or some government job doing who knows what which in both cases the capitalism that she puts down has allowed her to live a pretty comfortable lifestyle including retirement and benefits.

She's saying after your business becomes a wild success and starts to reap in massive profits, that you should take a piece of those profits and pay it forward. Where does she say that there is no risk in a business start up? Or that you must give a chunk of your business away if it's not profitable? Or that you must give away profits within the first 10 years?

The difference is that he was referring to Capital Gains tax (which oddly enough wasn't included in that CBO estimate) vs. Individual Income Tax rates... and I am quite certain that when he was referring to middle class he was referring to people like me who earn between $84k and $250k.

The last time I paid anywhere near 3% was when I was working as a Restaurant Manager in the 90s and had kids that I could claim EIC for. I do claim one... I have a 5 year old... but it certainly doesn't reduce my liability much...

I don't own property because I am still improving my credit score from going through 2 divorces and being broke for years... so no mortgage interest deduction. I don't have alot of expenses that I can write off because my office is in my bedroom and I don't really have an area in my house that I can dedicate to an office. I don't really drive anywhere for business meetings... so not much there either and my hosting costs are nominal.

I am working on a new project that will probably change all of that... but this is my current reality.

If it were taxes alone... I might be able to support a Republican... but I have learned over the years that they talk out of the side of their necks... meaning that they say what you want to hear but do something entirely different. They are the primary driver of our current debt and the facts prove that no matter what they may say... and a perfect example of the "side of their neck" comment.

I don't support everything that Democrats want and I certainly don't see myself as a Progressive... in fact I think Progressives are the opposite crazy of Tea Party crazy. Two sides of the same coin. However, Obama hasn't done anything that he didn't say he would do from the beginning of his campaign that I care about.

Republicans don't do anything... nothing... zero... to help small business owners like me. They only help out huge corporations that they call "small businesses". They FUCK small business owners like me right in the buttcrack.

C Corps are their own entity. The better plan these days is to incorporate as an S Corp or an LLC. At the end of the year the owner(s) pay their taxes from a K1.

My businesses are structured as the main entity as a C Corp. It has a large amount of assets that can be depreciated at various rates. The entity that owns the buildings is an LLC. Not many deductions available. And the tire company is also an LLC. Basically since I acquired the tire company it's been converted to a sales and marketing organization that purchases the tires from the C corp.

Having multiple corporate entities is the way to go.

I'm living in the non-ghetto part of america.
I'm sure where you live things are different.

I think most do, have you ever heard of charity?

And giving money to charity instead of the government which wastes something like 80 cents on the dollar to get it to those they are supposed to be helping. Most charities are a hell of a lot more efficient than that.