now I can understand why people get attitude toward women in this business

[tony286]

Fucking models who just dont fucking show up ,no call ,no email. This bitch makes a appointment, then calls the next day to reappoint it. She seems nice and she is so sorry, she said she will probably be there early she is so excited and the bitch never showed up this is the second time(two different girls) this has happened and I dont want to get a attitude but its hard not to lol.This one we were just going to talk to lol.

[Fletch XXX]

Useless drugged up cancelling traumatized psycho pron sluts are a dime a dozen.

[Lethal]

My production team skips the interviews... we just drive around in our white van until we see a good one, then we mace her and drag her off to our secret studio location and shoot until we've got a good amount of content. Then we finish the job and dump them in the river. Works well, you should try it.

[tony286]

THank you you have made me feel better lol

[jammyjenkins]

Originally posted by Lethal
My production team skips the interviews... we just drive around in our white van until we see a good one, then we mace her and drag her off to our secret studio location and shoot until we've got a good amount of content. Then we finish the job and dump them in the river. Works well, you should try it.

sounds like bang bus

[Cindyff]

Tony
You are not alone believe me, can i suggest that to help others you post messages on the modeling boards warning about this model at the very least it will stop anyone else getting shat on. What they dont realize is you time is just as valuable as theirs but i guess they are too drugged to care
Better luck next time
Cindy x

[LunaC]

Models are not the only women in this biz.

[SteveLightspeed]

Yeah, we talked about doing a parody site called "unreliable-bitches.com" --

no actual content, just "you shoulda seen this one, she woulda been great...."

all white pages where the content would have gone (if she would have showed up)

LS

[NastyJack]

Just take a run up to you're local streap bar and offer a few sluts there $100.00 for an hour of they're time.

Hell, you know they'll show up cause you're driving them to the studio.

Bonus: They all have friends that are always looking for work!


Regards
NastyJack

[Stamm321]

Welcome to the club....

Whats the best story you have heard for missing an appt. from one of these girls?

best one ive heard was that she was at burger king..and the next thing she knew she was out in the middle of the desert with a bump on her head...

[Spunky]

Originally posted by Stamm321
Welcome to the club....

Whats the best story you have heard for missing an appt. from one of these girls?

best one ive heard was that she was at burger king..and the next thing she knew she was out in the middle of the desert with a bump on her head...

You forgot with a sore potatoe patch

[Pipecrew]

Originally posted by NastyJack
Just take a run up to you're local streap bar and offer a few sluts there $100.00 for an hour of they're time.

Hell, you know they'll show up cause you're driving them to the studio.

Bonus: They all have friends that are always looking for work!


Regards
NastyJack

Except strippers can make alot more then 100 in an hour doing dances

[Brad Mitchell]

There are women and there are ladies. Some might argue on the merits of this... but I think you ought to be careful when you lump talent together with the savvy business women in our industry. Clearly, you've not met any of the classy ladies that are in our industry. There are quite a few.

Brad

[tony286]

There is no need to come to anyone's defensive Brad, after reading the thread you know what I am talking about.

[Scootermuze]

Originally posted by Lightspeed
Yeah, we talked about doing a parody site called "unreliable-bitches.com" --

no actual content, just "you shoulda seen this one, she woulda been great...."

all white pages where the content would have gone (if she would have showed up)

LS

I checked the domain and it was available, so I got it.. I figured if it was there, you decided not to follow thru with it.. however.. if ya wanna lend a hand, I'll follow your lead with it and make it so.. and float your banners on it hither & yon..

Might just be a fun thing to play around with..

[Kiko_Wu]

Photographers do as much shit and more to the models. The overt and publicly announced hatred of those who pay your rent and put food over your head is childish and just makes the whole Adult industry look bad. It has nothing to do with "women" it's unskilled labor straight out of high school- same as at McDonalds just better looking. They have the same problems you do but their smart enough to account for it in their business plan.

Professionals don't go crying on web forums when employees don't show up for work, if you don't behave professionally don't be surprised when you aren't treated professionally by employees and contractors. Staffing is an issue for every industry, suck it up and make a business model that takes that into account. Just quit crying and blaming a whole gender for your inability to recruit and retain professional talent.

[Gman.357]

Originally posted by SinEmpire
There are women and there are ladies. Some might argue on the merits of this... but I think you ought to be careful when you lump talent together with the savvy business women in our industry. Clearly, you've not met any of the classy ladies that are in our industry. There are quite a few.

Brad

A lot of women in this industry practically get their success handed to them. Not talking about models... talking about "webmistresses".

Do this test for yourself. Take a website you own that's doing OK, and hire a cute female webmaster to run things.... and make herself known as the webmaster for the site. Before you know it, that site will have link trades from pple that wouldn't trade with it before, surfers sending love letters to her, pple cutting her slack left and right when she makes mistakes... etc. The list of privileges goes on.

So if you wanna turn the success of a particular website around, just hire a cute woman to run it. She doesn't even have to be that savvy.

[Kiko_Wu]

A lot of women in this industry practically get their success handed to them.

I know of NO webmistress who has had anything "handed to her". Read GFY sometime to get an idea of the stone age mentality we come up against everyday. Unless you're worked your way up from the bottom as a webmistresses and put up with all the shit you're not really in a position to say. Usually the guys who talk about how easy it is for webmistresses have been unable to achieve the degree of success they would have liked so use it as an excuse. "I suck but it's not my fault- those girls have it easy." Why is it that losers in the adult business always use women as their scapegoats?

[Gman.357]

Originally posted by Kiko_Wu

I know of NO webmistress who has had anything "handed to her". Read GFY sometime to get an idea of the stone age mentality we come up against everyday. Unless you're worked your way up from the bottom as a webmistresses and put up with all the shit you're not really in a position to say. Usually the guys who talk about how easy it is for webmistresses have been unable to achieve the degree of success they would have liked so use it as an excuse. "I suck but it's not my fault- those girls have it easy." Why is it that losers in the adult business always use women as their scapegoats?

You exposed me. I use women as my scapegoats and to cover my own failures.

That's why I have more women than men on my payroll.

[CDSmith]

Let's not make a big to-do about all women in the industry here. The title of this thread probably should have read as "certain women..." right?


Right.


When a model craps out on me and doesn't show up for a shoot, I give her one more chance. If she craps out again she's gone. Off the list, period. Girls either do this to further their career or to make the nice bucks in a short period of time, and there are simply too many girls out there that will take their place and wILL show up, and on time to boot.


In my experience, I'd say that approximately 30-40% of all models, amateur or otherwise, are unreliable and hopeless.

[AOLGuy]

I think that the original post expresses a pretty common sentiment.

I have had models flake, some who are in the biz and some who are just starting out, and every time it is SO frustrating.

It is one thing not to book a shoot or decide along the way that you aren't into it.

But to sometimes spend the hours on the phone, especially with someone new to the biz, and put in genuine effort to make them feel comfortable, only to have them not show without so much as a phone call or email, and well, it is rather annoying.

Especially if you have discussed everything to the point where there is no confusion. I've had it happen numerous times on simple solo posing shoots, nothing complex or hardcore.

I respect what was expressed in the above rebuttal--but have this happen to you once, maybe at your home or studio. Then have it happen when you are in the model's town and arranged to be there and have an upscale hotel for the shoot, then have it happen when you go out of your way to get a studio in the area to shoot two or three girls in a day and have two or all three flake.

Does it have something to do with professionalism? It can, but in my experience if I do not "click" with someone, they never arrange a shoot or I never make an official offer.

I go out of my way to project a professionalism and respect, and first and foremost putting them at ease.

Most newcomers flake because they can't go through with it--which is understandable, but it still makes me feel like I wasted my time.

Girls who have modelled for awhile--well, I made the mistake of trying to book a few who did hardcore when I wanted them for solo posing. Day of the shoot comes, they get a more lucrative offer to go blow six guys for a video company, and I don't even get a phone call--but occasionally a thinly veiled apology to reschedule, always citing a family emergency.

I understand why some people get so jaded, and I think it is tough to strike the right balance. Yes, the models are what drive content of this business--but no one should ever feel like they are at their mercy.

All I know is that if I agree on a time for a shoot, I am there. If I am running behind, I let her know. If I reschedule, I initiate contact as soon as possible.

AKFK

[KCat]

I hate broad generalizations (pun intended), but in my experience, strippers are the absolute worst to deal with. I've never had more trouble with girls flaking on shoots then when I worked with strippers.

[tony286]

Photographers do as much shit and more to the models. The overt and publicly announced hatred of those who pay your rent and put food over your head is childish and just makes the whole Adult industry look bad. It has nothing to do with "women" it's unskilled labor straight out of high school-

Do you just mouth off about things you have no idea of ? First off I dont work with anyone under 21. Secondly this isnt a model board its a webmaster board so if you didnt like that I feel comfortable enough to blow stream with my fellow webmasters/mistresses well thats tough. Also you are in NYC(lots and lots of hungry girls) so you dont know whats like in the real world. My wife and I treat everyone with respect, in fact I have bent over backwards to the point of fucking myself out of money to be fair. I have a excellent reputation.No its women models, the flake factor is very high and who are you to judge me? Lets see you leave the center of the world and see the problems you have.

[tony286]

I am sorry if I offended any webmistresses on this board I meant models and I wrote this thread in a fit of severe frustration. I trusted the board enough that I could unload,so I could go back to smiling and go forward with my work. I am shooting a girl tomorrow that hasnt shown up three times she promises she will this time and I am very nice so that why it really annoys me. I did a website with a girl who didnt keep her end of the bargain I could of took everything but I still give her a percentage every month. Legally I didnt have to give her a dime. Another girl who I paid after 12 months ago said she was in love and her fiance had a real problem with her pics being on the net I took them down and dont ask for a dime back. I have given all this good karma and very little has come back lately so I got pissed. I wont post like that again, my mistake I thought this was a safe haven for me.lol

[CDSmith]

Originally posted by AKFK
Most newcomers flake because they can't go through with it--which is understandable, but it still makes me feel like I wasted my time.

...and money.


Excellent post AKFK. Very well said. (your entire post)

[The Other Steve]

I understand your frustration Tony - but we've been stood up by more guys than girls. The girls we have used in the past have all been keen and eager and turned up on the day.

The male sex machines who talk big before the shoot either wimp out at the last minute or are so pathetic that they feel "intimidated" by the lights and can't get a hard-on.

[Gary]

Originally posted by The Other Steve
I understand your frustration Tony - but we've been stood up by more guys than girls. The girls we have used in the past have all been keen and eager and turned up on the day.

The male sex machines who talk big before the shoot either wimp out at the last minute or are so pathetic that they feel "intimidated" by the lights and can't get a hard-on.

I told you man, i didnt sleep well the night before. thats the first time its ever happened

[Oliver Klozov]

They are all bitches

Second you forget one will remind you.

[Carrie]

Originally posted by tony404


Do you just mouth off about things you have no idea of ?

I don't think I've *ever* seen someone stick their foot in their mouth as far as you just have.
If you don't know who Kiko is or what she does, you need to find out before making such statements.

[FlyingIguana]

Originally posted by Cindyff
Tony
You are not alone believe me, can i suggest that to help others you post messages on the modeling boards warning about this model at the very least it will stop anyone else getting shat on. What they dont realize is you time is just as valuable as theirs but i guess they are too drugged to care
Better luck next time
Cindy x

tell em you got some crack, they'll be there within an hour for the shoot. and you won't even have to pay them.

[tony286]

If you don't know who Kiko is or what she does, you need to find out before making such statements.

You thats where you are mistaken I know she is and I know what she does. She works out of NYC, totally different than the rest of the world. When I lived there and worked in Adult entertainment, they would place an ad looking for girls. You couldnt believe the response. Here where I live its very different. How I am placing my foot in my mouth but when Kiko said I was unprofessional thats why models dont show up and I cant keep people without knowing me at all you had no problem with that?

[Lethal]

Originally posted by tony404
. How I am placing my foot in my mouth but when Kiko said I was unprofessional thats why models dont show up and I cant keep people without knowing me at all you had no problem with that?

Don't worry, Carrie's just one of those fatty arch-femmo newbie loving commie hippies that just took off her TomsNewbieBooster training wheels, just ignore her.

[ADL Colin]

Originally posted by LunaC
Models are not the only women in this biz.

Exactly.

[Kiko_Wu]

Yeah, NYC is "easy". LOL, no porn agencies, no porn locations, porn violates the standard NYC commercial lease. Do you have any clue what it costs to lease 3,000 sq ft of commercial space in NYC? If were so "easy" it would be wall to wall production out here- it's not. Everything is more expensive and more difficult.

NYC models flake on other companies but they don't flake on mine, we don't treat then like sluts, we don't touch them, we pay cash and a lot more then any other company in the city. The minor inconvenience and cost is more than made up for by having a lot of models willing to show up on time and work hard at any given time. We have shot in California, New York and Taiwan. If you run your company like a business not a frat house models will know you mean business. There are simple, well established HR practices to deal with issues involving high labor turnover.

I've never heard someone with so many whiny excuses whiiiiiiine, models don't show up, whiiiiiiine it's easy for you in New York. Suck it up, be a man and deal with it. Models are unreliable *Big News Flash* what 19 year old girls ARE reliable?

Ehh, I don't waste time talking with people who talk so much shit they are afraid to have their site and company associated with their posts.

[pink_in_the_middle]

Originally posted by Fletch XXX
Useless drugged up cancelling traumatized psycho pron sluts are a dime a dozen.

Well said.

[Sarah_Jayne]

as a woman in this biz who has never been given anything on a plate I will just assume that in the least the title of this thread should of had 'model' in the place of 'women'.

[Kiko_Wu]

Useless drugged up cancelling traumatized psycho pron sluts are a dime a dozen.

Yeah, and two glorified sign painters would really know LOL.

[tony286]

If you run your company like a business not a frat house models will know you mean business.

What are talking about? Frat house ? It's my wife and myself(we dont even drink lol) We are very professional, I worked in corporate america as a executive recruiter for five years, I know more about HR than you would ever want to know. New York is still easier I lived there most of my life and the talent pool is much larger. Stop about the law NYC is escort heaven, so I dont think they will be breaking down any doors on you for shooting videos and pics.THe police in NYC have better things to do with their time. You know whats funny, if you werent so judgemental about my business, a subject you know nothing about. I actually would have a high degree of respect for you being able to support so high of a rent. The loft we are in now I couldnt touch in NYC. I have never touched a model in my life, I treat them very nice and professionally, if a girl isnt comfortable you get crap pics. If you took the time to read my other posts you would know that instead of just spitting out remarks based on nothing.It also shows the lack of professionalism you have to attack someone you dont know who was speaking in general terms. Also its easy for you to talk, your business is very homogeneous. I dont see any blondes, redheads or african americans on your sites. You keep talking about girls under 21. I said I dont shoot any girls under 21 and I am not going to third world countries, where the choice is shoot with me or starve lol.

[LadyMischief]

I find that one of the problems with having models take shoot times and whatnot seriously is that they don't consider such things "business". It's important to impress on the girls that this is a business like any other, and that you, as a photographer, consider your time valuable. If a girl doesn't show up for her first shoot, she NEVER hears back from me. In fact, when I first interview a model, I give them a list of what I will do for them and what I expect of them in return. If they don't agree to it, they don't shoot with me, period. I expect my girls to be on time (or reasonably so) I expect them to show up to scheduled shoots unless they give me 48 hours of notice (it can be less only if it's an emergency or they get their period), and I expect them to respet my time, AND theirs as valuable. I found that once I explained this to the girls, they seemed to step up to the plate and act a little more responsibly. I generally prefer to work with "green" models, and laying it all out for them has been a huge benifit to me. Of course, there's girls that just turn into flakes later one. Those girls are rather unhappy to find bills for my services rendered (my hourly wage, my resources, etc etc) in their mailboxes for the times they don't show up and I sit around waiting for them. I guarantee that only happens once and either they don't ever come back, or they make DAMN sure they show up for shoots they've agreed to.

No offense to those ladies out there who do not fit this bill, but I am sorry to say I find strippers the hardest to work with. Their lifestyles do not really promote being on time.. They are up all night and sleep the day away generally, and that just doesn't usually mesh with my schedule. That and with them travelling so much, I find they forget appointments a lot more often than a college girl looking for some extra cash.


Anyways, hope that helps a bit.

[tony286]

Ehh, I don't waste time talking with people who talk so much shit they are afraid to have their site and company associated with their posts.

Lets get it right you mean spam for your affiliate programs lol

[tony286]

as a woman in this biz who has never been given anything on a plate I will just assume that in the least the title of this thread should of had 'model' in the place of 'women'.

I stated that in one of the earler post I said I was sorry it should of said model Its been a bad week I am glad we are going on vacation next week. lol

[shawcutie]

Hey Tony!

I agree...Damn Models ;)

[pornJester]

lol, i don't shoot content but i did line up a model once for a friend that does shoot. I confirmed with her over the phone a couple days before the shoot and she never showed or called back.

[Kiko_Wu]

Lets get it right you mean spam for your affiliate programs lol

Least I'm not so ashamed of what I say that I don't want it associated with my company. No name, no company, no site- no credibility. Just some guy hiding behind his computer and ranting...

[tony286]

www.xposedmodeling.com, www.bustybecky.com, www.mandysplayshouse.com I also find it interesting that you responsed to this one but not to the prior to it. Was I right lol

[cherrylula]

Originally posted by Kiko_Wu

Yeah, and two glorified sign painters would really know LOL.

Fletch and myself both once worked for a pron studio in the SF Valley. I used to do a lot of scheduling myself.

The bottom line always came down to what else the girl had going on. I've seen grade school teachers pose nude in their spare time for pretty low wages and be completely happy. And then I have seen strippers who were like three times as fugly as the teacher complain about how much more $ they make in the clubs.

Considering the tooth and nail nature of the biz, I really would not blame talent for choosing the job that pays the most. Get it while you can ya know.

--Oh yeah-- Let's not forget about the slightly ugly or dumpy girls, who call and ask for work and get brushed off because they are not attractive enough. Or get told we are totally booked because there has already been enough content shot of her and you don't need any more. That fucking sucks.

[Kiko_Wu]

www.xposedmodeling.com, www.bustybecky.com, www.mandysplayshouse.com

Not going to add those to your sig huh? I wonder why:-)

I also find it interesting that you responsed to this one but not to the prior to it. Was I right lol

About what? You were just ranting. Look, you discount my skill and the difficulties my company faces- I discount your skill and your difficulties. That's board piss and not going to change anything.

You don't have any argument from me that models are flaky and that strippers are twice as flaky. Or that it sucks and is a hassle when they cancel. There's nothing wrong with a little good natured venting, models suck, hosts suck, sponsers suck- it's all part of the game. BUT when we start getting in to "the bitch never showed up" and"Useless drugged up canceling traumatized psycho pron sluts are a dime a dozen." "i guess they are too drugged to care " "offer a few sluts there $100.00 for an hour of they're time" "They are all bitches " (not you but indicative of the problem) this is just bad for everyones business. Because when the content producers say it then the 16 year old free siters, designers and the rest of the kids parrot it to try and sound hardcore. Unfortunately there are a lot of webmistresses eager to jump on the gratuitous model bashing bandwagon just to differentiate themselves from talent and ingratiate themselves with the boys.

This sort of sentiment is just bad for business, it make our industry look bad, encourages regulation and makes it even harder for everyone. The industry just got slammed on that ABC special and there's going to be more where that came from. Everyone in the industry feels insulated behind their computer so doesn't give their public comments a second thought. The problem is not that the feds are going to read the forum, the problem is that newbie webmasters and content producers are and they are not really being given any clues to distinguish venting from the reality of content production. We got into this years ago with credit cards, a few twits did whatever they wanted and we all paid. A few content producers want to play foul mouth pimp and we're all going to end up footing the bill when it comes to public perception and potential regulation.

[Fletch XXX]

Originally posted by Kiko_Wu

Yeah, and two glorified sign painters would really know LOL.

You dont know anything about me, I wasnt talking about you why bring it up?

Ive been in contact with more LA porn girls than you can imagine. From scheduling their hardcore movies with Jim Holiday in our studio for VCA to running a 24 hour live cam for Hustler, chill out.

I had been around them 6 days a week for 4 years before I quit.

I know all about drugged out whores porn whores Kiko.

LA and Hollywood are full of failed actresses who start sucking dick and taking big black cock in the ass.

They are faking PCR DNA tests and are useless.

[tony286]

This is going to throw you You are right and I was wrong I shouldnt of used the word bitches and all the other curse words. It was unprofessional and now that I look at it, I could of chosen my words more carefully. I apologize to the board. On the other hand if you had said that in your first post instead of attacking me, it would of been a much shorter thread. Also attack my sites if you wish with 80% retention and having no hardcore, it doesnt bother me lol.

[Kiko_Wu]

No, I have no issue with your site. Arguable if I should have posted that first, keep in mind a percentage of my time and income still comes from modeling. Every time I do business online or attend a convention I hit an industry perception of models head on- so this is not a purely academic discussion for me. So a little unpleasantness is an order provided the end result is amicable:-)