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I saw online porn devastate offline porn, to the extent it closed loads of magazines and put those left of very small budgets. I saw the devastation to video and cable. All because of free porn. Now it's biting you in the ass. As someone at the forefront of giving porn away, how does it feel? And what are you going to try that's new? A tube site full of even bigger reasons not to spend money, selling to Dating sites that scam customers or selling sponsored links? Sorry I never look on your site so didn't know. Still might be a good example of the ratio of freeloaders to the ratio of buyers you have, we could repeat the exercise every 3 months. Sponsors are the ones who need to try new ideas, not ideas at getting more traffic, been doing that for 12 years and look where it got us. Sponsors need to be thinking about how to convert and retain more. That's the only future there is for online porn. That and web cams, even dating will fail. You can't keep conning customers there's a girl in the next street waiting to fuck them. Wonder if in 3-4 years I'll be proved right again. :thumbsup The real problem is the attitude of many. So what if I've been saying it over and over again. The important thing is.Was I it right and what's happening to turn it around? Lazy people and leeches just close their ears or ridicule. |
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It's 2011, there is a global recession, and it's fucking DEEP. Of course we are all hurting - but we are hurting only in relation to what we earned in eg 2008. We aren't hurting like people with 'real jobs' are hurting - nowhere near it. Tell someone in an offline job, or 90% of them, what your terrible income forecast for 2011 is, and you'd likely get a smack in the mouth for your 'woes'. I'm at about 25% of what I was doing in 2008, but I promise you I'll never moan to any of my friends about what I'm still earning - they'd tell me to stop being such a wanker. And before you (and I mean anyone in general, not you personally) start about standard of living, having to move down a level, etc - suck it up like 97% of the rest of the world are doing. |
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But when 100 people consume a product and don't even go to a paysite, you know somethings wrong. Today those ratios would be a dream, yet are still shit ratios. And that's the point. Online porn accepted these ratios and only looked at the 100 who came and the 1 that bought. (Numbers to illustrate the example) Even today and people know something is very wrong, Warchild posts ratios close to 1-500 on banner clicks. He didn't come back after that. Probably realised he dug a hole for himself. How many views did his clips get, to get 1 sale? I asked another guy to tell me what he wished he could tell me in my cottage, he didn't come back. Roald when asked to show what his ratio of freeloaders to buyers is, made an excuse. All we know is the online porn business is now in the same boat they put the offline porn business in. Free porn, legal or not, is killing the industry. And what are they doing about it? Ridiculing the messenger so they can ignore the message. Is that bright or what? |
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Enjoy your retirement :2 cents: |
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and btw - i just recently put a few short clips on legal tube sites with my banner below the videos. Result: 1 out 200 people who clicked on my banner bought a membership has the video been watched a few thousand times? yes, but i also look at tv commercials all the time without buying something do i wish it was better? yes could it be worse? yes and now back to working on my shop :glugglug |
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I don't need an excuse cause I am not the one who needs to proof anything here. I am not the one preaching in this thread. its you :thumbsup |
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Strangers, that like you say don't know how to make or sell porn, don't know what porn was like before the internet, don't know fuck all about porn marketing. But strangers who made money and lots of it, while you was trying to sell magazine prints in a bargain basement store for $2, at the same time trying to try and point out something you cant do anything about and that everyone knows, in the sad hope of "forcing" people to buy your porn in some eastern block socialist utopia, where all the porn surfers are made to buy your shit. It is never going to happen. It never was. So run along, you failed, except it and put on your business partners Heinz spaghetti hoops on the hob, she will be home from her cleaning job at 5 :1orglaugh |
Would you like a few affiliates to send you that make-believe 100k uniques per month paul? Or would you turn it down, as most of it will be freeloaders? How about a few million a month?
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Try posting something different and you might not get ridiculed quite so much. |
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Weird thing is, everyone can read the posts and see you didn't lie. If I were to lie about something, I'd pick something less obvious. |
Paul, I have a ton of respect for your work and knowledge. I have lost many litres of bodily fluid admiring your abilities. But free porn was absolutely inevitable. As you stated above, brick and mortar stores had to bring the people in. If they could have posted newspaper adverts with free porn you can bet your ass there would have been a ton of it. No eyes means no sales.
Fast forward to the internet, no clicks mean no sales. If your site has a high bounce rate you are going to do what you must to get the viewers' attention. So in a way, the internet marketers are right- traffic is king. You are also right in that to convert the traffic, given the state of porn, it must be of quality or at least compelling. But the future of selling porn memberships is probably dead as we know it. Without a certain level of interactiveness no one will pay for porn. Keep an eye on our friend nathen/fabian to see what he does. I would think a clone or acquisition of a MFC and dating (maybe what's left of FFN after they go belly up) is in the very near future for that network. I can't see him content sharing that pie. Porn will be used as a value added service, like a condiment to get you in the mood to talk to a "real woman". There will still be a market for producers of pornography... but the salad days are gone forever. |
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I do believe what you say, because what you say backs me up. You have loads of freeloaders on your site like everyone else. Creative marketing people would of seen that 12 years ago and realised it wasn't right. Then fixed it. They would of turned a huge percentage of the freeloaders into customers. Imagine how much money we threw down the toilet. We left so much money on the table, the table collapsed years ago into a flat pancake shape. We built the freeloaders faster than we built the buyers. Not creative at all. I've listened to all the bullshit you guys have tripped out for years. Now that bullshit has been realised. But still, instead of people looking at the problem and fixing it, or trying to, they're probably just carrying on until it's not worth carrying on. You've done little but ridicule me, yet provide no proof I'm wrong, in fact you back up that I'm right. |
you never listen to anyone, read anything, just blather on for over 15 years now about something you don't understand, spewing nonsense that is completely wrong.
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Today free porn can't be stopped. The pirated stuff will be everywhere soon. In the early days it could of been stopped. And those online would of made so much money they wouldn't care. Robbie wouldn't be bitching about pirated porn. He'd be surfing it from his yacht in the Bahamas. Moored right next to Roald's. Paying affiliates 10% max, not giving them tons of free content, tools, hosting, etc. Or doing all the affiliate work in house. I suggested that on another board and another poster replied "They couldn't afford TGPs without support and big payout." Imagine that, an Adult Internet without 1,000s of TGP sites with millions of galleries. We would of ground to a halt. :1orglaugh But that's the thinking of online porn. They see affiliates as helping sales. I see them giving away free content to take away sales. Imagine a business where affiliates can't afford to be the barrier between the surfer and the supplier. I can think creatively enough to imagine how it would work. The idea that men wouldn't come looking fr porn is silly and illustrates an ignorance of the porn business. |
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The problem is no one has a clue how to fix the problem, even though they know what's happening. Is there a fix or is it so late, its just time to make money on what's left. Then do what many others did. Get out?
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I have absolutely zero to gain by giving you any information and frankly judging by your replies, you wouldn't understand much of anything I told you anyway. You keep going with your "the sky is falling" rants because despite your success with content sales, you never figured out how to generate affiliate sales and want to believe everyone else has failed also. There's no problem to fix, you either figure out how to make a living doing this or you leave cause you can't, its not real complex. You had to leave and now you want to believe that everyone else needs to also because there's no money left to be made, you're wrong. |
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Join Date: Jun 2001 No one listened to me and now they see so many freeloaders it's starting to really effect their income. Yet still you don't come up with anything solid. What should I read, who should I listen to? I* do read what people say and mostly it's bullshit. I post people in porn who made far more than online porn guys. and all I get is bullshit. Yes they diversified out of only porn. They had the spare working capital to do that and a solid business. Adult.com sold for $9 million nice chunk of change but not a big company. You wouldn't of bought a major offline porn company for that. The supposedly biggest porn company today is Manwin. Anyone seen Manwin's audited accounts. Know exactly what it was bought for, know what it's worth today? No, all we got is news reports that Manwin have handed out. Same goes for any other online porn company. no one knows what Shap got, but if you compare what Lensman go, sold and when with what Shap had and when he sold. I doubt if he got the same. Good luck to him, he got an offer and knew it was time to grab it. But no one knows what it was. How many online porn companies have gone public and issued shares. That requires audited accounts? Because without that, the rest is guesswork. At least with these guys we know roughly what they're worth or were. Larry Flynt, Paul Raymond, David Gold, David Sullivan. Is Hefner worth anything today? |
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Yes you have left the old traditional way of making affiliate sales. So you're doing something others do or only you? If it's only you, then it's best to keep quiet. If it's you and 100s of others, no point in not telling me as others already know. Anyway you're jumping in the a discussion that doesn't concern you. Dating and cams isn't about paysites sales falling. And yes they're part of the industry where all sales are falling. Will you be immune to free? No it will hit you soon enough. Free dating sites are the way to go. No porn connections, so advertisers from anywhere can be sold space and girls are more likely to join. Unlike porn connected dating sites, whose promises are lies. Glad to see you part of that. Web cam will continue, if no one perfects the MFC model. The sky is falling or haven't you noticed. Not crashing down, just slowly descending. There's still money to be made, just no where near the scale it was and better than the scale it will be. |
paul you a player piano salesman in the age of the birth of radio.
you just don't get it. maybe you are just too old. maybe just too set in your ways. |
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The more you talk about the adult online industry, the more clear it becomes how little you know what exactly is going on out there. You are still stuck in your own little bubble and take your own experience with your site and surmise that the same thing must be going on in the entire industry. |
hey did you guys know there is lots of free porn on teh internets!!!
paul markhams told me!! |
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would you just listen to this stupid cunt "nobody listened to me" :1orglaugh :1orglaugh |
who gives a fuck what shap got for his business?
who gives a fuck what manwin is worth ?? how about you worry about your own business you decrepit moron |
Would you like a few affiliates to send you that make-believe 100k uniques per month paul? Or would you turn it down, as most of it will be freeloaders? How about a few million a month?
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The closest he has got to the magic of the internet is his famous join links. :) |
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With lots of patience i have been reading the whole thread. The conclusion was simple : Paul Markham need a job.
Enjoy eating mamaliga with potatoes every day old bastard :winkwink::winkwink: |
awesome girls dude!
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Yes I scoffed at starting a web studio. Because I had first hand information of how well they were doing, the amount of work required and the commitment put in by the people who ran web cam studios. The studios were the "content providers" and like other parts of online porn were treated pretty badly. In Brno alone most have closed, the biggest in Prague was doing very badly last I heard. Not even sure if it's still there. The studios were paid a fraction of what the customer spent, girls were earning very little. SNZY has done well, because he had the money and experience to get it right and I believe his studio is for his sites. Glad you picked up that this was his real reason for seeing me. And probably why I wasn't interested. I'm not stuck in my bubble. Our content stores sell to other sites, we know custom shooters who shoot for other sites, we know models who work in the industry and agents. I also read the boards, the message as you say has been we give away too much free porn, it was ignored because there was still growth. My point is that growth might of been tan time as much without free porn distracting the potential customers. Now the ultimate in free porn is Tube sites operating within the law and piracy. Not much we can do about piracy, but Tubes exist because of the massive cost of getting traffic, in my belief a cost that's far to high. That cost has also effected the sites ability to put out a better product. Here's an estimate. Different people spend different amounts. 50% goes on promotion of the site, traffic. 10% goes on processing. 5% goes on hosting, which is far lower today than it used to be. 10% on offices, admin, programs, design, and everything else. 10% profit. That leaves 15% of a join for the content of the members area. $4.50 per join. 1,000 members = $4,5000 for content per 1,000 members. That's not the price of one decent BG scene. Maybe 2 GG and 3-4 solo girl scenes. I used the word decent and judged it by what a decent shooter could earn shooting this content in other areas of the business. That cost the industry a lot of money, conversions were hurt and retention was hurt. Look at it from a different POV. In general web cam girls don't earn well. So you end up with the worse girls giving out a barely good enough performance. That effects your income by less guys falling in love or getting infatuated with a girl. I've had 100s of them on castings and they rarely make it past that level, just not good enough. Yes there are a few who make great money, I'm talking in general. How many sites can afford to put a model under contract for exclusivity? Like Wicked and others do? How many sites could afford to move up to the top level of producing content? And how many of those who could would. The cost of traffic was far far too high. It put sponsors in a straight jacket, which led to saturation of sites, sponsors, affiliates and free porn. You think you benefited. Did you? Would you of been better off with a smaller % of commission and a larger turn over? Less affiliates because the lazy and weak couldn't compete with you, more income because of the higher turn over? The problem was once you go down the free content route to generate customers to get sign ups to fairly low level sites. The flood gates open. Because it's a lot easier than it should be. The end game is so much spent on traffic people can easily afford to run free porn sites giving away 5-6 minute clips or even full length movies. That's effected everyones income. This tells you a lot. Quote:
Affiliates were only possible because of the "50%" spent on them. Cut that to 10% and the strong survive or the whole culture disappears and the need of porn by men remains. Only way to satisfy that need is by paying to satisfy it. To figure out how it's done without affiliates needs a little creative thinking. :winkwink: It's not hard. |
Would you like a few affiliates to send you that make-believe 100k uniques per month paul? Or would you turn it down, as most of it will be freeloaders? How about a few million a month?
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OK, I am out of the thread. The internet is a numbers game paul. A program owner could hire 3 dozen tgp makers and they still couldn't pull the traffic of a decent affiliate program. You can argue differently but it would be just for the sake of arguing.
good luck:) |
Some are right, there were things about online porn I didn't understand.
1. Non exclusive content is saturated. This was the biggest one. So if it was saturated, it meant that it was inside 100s of members areas. Or that a site had started up with some cheap saturated content and never added to it. Like the Z Masters stuff on disc. Which was idiocy by the site owners who did this. But if it was saturated, why were custom shooters shooting a set and a video exclusive for $300? That's like 6 sales at $60. If you can only sell solo girl content 6 times, you weren't very good. Even $700 a scene is only 13 sales and over the life time of a scene getting 13 sales is easy. Well we were experiencing this. All this is without offline sales which beats online prices into a cocked hat. Can anyone explain it to me and not because today shooters have no options. a few years ago they did. 2. Try getting sales on a site with no traffic. Often from a guy submitting galleries (content) to a TGP site, with other galleries (content) on. Then sending that traffic to a paysite (content) to earn money. Did they mean, we rule the traffic and you play or game of fuck you? 3. The general lack of respect shown to customers. If customers had been treated as well as affiliates, we would all be earning money. Never could understand why people were happy ripping them off. Not just crooked sponsors, affiliates sent them traffic. And there's other examples of treating customers badly. 4. How people can make this type of statement. Quote:
Who gives a fuck what Manwin is worth? See above. This is my business. And seeing it self destruct isn't pleasant. How well is our business doing? Well 3 years after the effective closing of the business, our sites are still open and we're still taking money. We couldn't of worked for at least a year. the best part of 6 months Eva was in hospital or in a plastic corset to support her spine. Then I had cancer diagnosed and for the next 9 months was under very intense treatment. Then I was unable to eat solids and fed myself via a tube. It was a year before I was able to really look after myself. I did a shoot 2 months ago and it took so much out of me, I knew those days are over for me. Not physically able to shoot. Mentally I'm fine. :winkwink: Yes the sites are still open and still taking money. So I guess our business all things considered are doing a lot better than others would be. Who here could take 3 years out of work and still have an income from what they did 20 years ago. :thumbsup So I guess for a decrepit moronn, I've done a lot better than some of the bright people here. :1orglaugh 5. How can someone less bright than a decrepit moron, be in this business? :1orglaugh |
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That's my point. Sponsors created the barrier and built the support. Therefore ultimately costing everyone sales. It's not written in stone that the system HAD to be as it was. |
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No matter how many times, in how many different ways you type the same shit you've been typing here since 2003, you can't change history. I know you really want to. I know you want to stop free porn, and stop paying affiliates 50% and I know you really want to get some traffic, but you can't. I do love your posts from back then though. You appear so very painfully wrong. "free content will never be the threat to porn that it is to music" Lollington lol. Bless you. /me ruffles (what's left of) your hair |
OK, you pulled me back in.
A program could not have pulled the numbers building their own traffic network that an affiliate program Paul. It would take years to build in house what the affiliate program could produce in a month... For instance, 35% of the profit of 10,000 signups per month is far better than 80% of the profit from 500 signups per month. Again, the internet is a numbers game. And, even if the programs had gone the in-house route to marketing... we would still be in the same place we are now.... porn surfers will go where the cheapest and most convenient product can be seen. Programs still would have had to give more free porn to get the market share of surfers. |
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Get A Life Seriously :1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh |
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