YES, I will agree. Everything has two sides. Which is maybe why these threads start. :)

Some people are to blame. They overspent and now are in debt. The real problem in our economy is 1 thing... personal debt.

And not able to file BR due to assets are trapped by 21-29.9% interest payments.

WHY are credit card companies able to charge 29.9% interest? Lobbying.

To bleed you (or if you are fortunate) then your neighbor DRY. To stifle them.

Yes! It is their fault. The borrowers.

But 29.9 or 21.9 is rediculous in a slow economy.

There are answers I have for that too (getting rid of debt) but I prob posted enuff for today. :)

I will give you a tip on credit card debt consumers:

(Casue I know there are guys out there reading this with tons of cc debt)

Your credit report is not only a crock of shit but also a bunch of shit designed for one reason:

To keep you paying 29.9%

Are you poor?

If so, STOP paying all cards NOW. You do NOT have to pay them shit.

YOU are judgement proof.

YOU are poor.

YOU are still protected.

Fuck the rich becasue YOU are poor.

Drill them a new asshole becasue YOU are poor.

They wanted poor. THEY GOT POOR.

Fuck the BIG BANKS.

Default now. It is all crashing soon anyhow.

FUCK EM!

The left panders to the non- rich in tough times because they need a boogie man to blame instead of the failed policies of tax, borrow, and over spend

Or said another way,"kill the super able"

Yeah, that helps society:1orglaugh

If everyone poor woke up tomorrow, read my prev post, stopped hemmoraging their life's savings and children's savings and paid the CC companies ZERO from now on. It would turn around the economy overnight.

Everyone is suddenly debt free. Legally.

FUCK THE GOD DAMN CREDIT CARD companies. Sue the world assholes.

Fuck the big banks. They ARE in the top 1% for sure.

I will educate the world and change this fucken economy MYSELF.

I will educate America because I simply dont like the credit card theives.

No they did not steal. But they are running a shell game thru the powers of interest that are killing this country.

I am currently debt free. Of course. It isnt about me. It is about my country.

It is about TAKING back my country one post at at time.

why? because some people simply don't know how to use it, get into too much debt and file for bankruptcy, therefore credit card companies taking on a major risk... so they charge higher % to make up for the morons that don't know how to handle expenses... besides, whole point of a credit card is to have a simpler payment option then carrying thousands in cash everywhere... it costs me $0 to use my visa, because I pay i right away, people who miss payments and get stuck with 19% should not have it in a first place... they're trapped because of their own actions, why should credit card company reward those idiots with 3% interest rate?

Shall we discuss what is "judgement proof"?

Must be a few in adult who would like to know.

Are you paying on cc's? Over 10K bal? You will never get them paid.

They will bleed you DRY because to them you are SHIT.

While they hug their kid on their vacation. YOU will never have a vacation worth a damn for your kid.

NOT because you did not work hard. Because it isnt in the cards in this society and ecomomy for EVERYONE who works HARD anymore, as the Big Banks, corrupt polticians and all their weasle backers, (who hope to suckle at the tit or who already suckle at the corporate tit) bleed you DRY.

So dont buy this BULLSHIT about you dindt WORK HARD. I know you did.

You fell thru the cracks. Take them with you.

They wanted you bled dry and poor. Now you are poor (or getting poorer).

Default on all CC'S now.

You DO NOT have to pay them shit. Trust me.

They will soon have ALL YOUR money if you are paying them on a large balance. Trust me.

LMK if you want to know what is judgement proof.

if the middle class goes broke, who will buy all the rich people's shit? the economy grinds to a halt.....

If you use the card at all and carry any balance which is what many people have then they are all at 20% or over now days. Not all but most. 3%? Who is borrowing at 3% unless you dont need the money.

Yes it is dog eat dog. No free lunch. No money for nothing. No mercy on anyone, which is why I say:

If you carry a bal over 10K or really any bal and it is hurting your bottom line, you do NOT need to pay them shit.

And they cant do shit to you. You are poor.

When the BIG DEFAULT comes in this country and all you rich fucks (who work at the cc companies) tumble down to my more modest level I will be all smiles. :)

The rich will never tumble. Hopefully bad karma will kill them. hehe

I can live just fine on 4 cans of beans. :)

I cant wait till the fucking economy really tanks. Seriously.

Cash only society and bartering.

That is step one to revolution.

It's not just the left pointing out the rights policies have failed us...

The rich will do anything for the poor but get off their backs.

Karl Marx

Amen JC.

If I leave the people with anything after sitting here all afternoon it is PLEASE vote third party at the very least.

YES it wont do shit as you cant beat big money but MAYBE just maybe a Ventura or SOMONE can someday rise up (without getting assassinated) and take our country back from the CC corps, Defense corps, Food corps, Agriculture corps and other slimy BIG corps and corrupt politicians (virtually all of them).

Or at least fuck em up a bit. :)

And waaaaaaaaahhh the Dow JOnes is down.

I will be sitting on a sack of "tradeables" saying "stick your stocks and bonds up your ass"

Bring on the crash. It will be a NEW BEGINNING for most of us.

Waaaaaaaaaaaahhhhh the market is down. Who gives a fuck.

Prices would go down. Nothing grinds to a halt.

lmao Im the brainwashed one? I never said anything about taking away social programs, your brainwashed brain made you think that.

One thing social programs do is keep the poor enslaved and dependent while funneling the money taken from the middle/upper class to the uber rich. :thumbsup

Yup government is feeding the uber rich money, clearly the only solution is to make the government bigger :1orglaugh

What makes you think it's ok to borrow $$$ and not pay it back? It's not really any different than stealing... :2 cents:

Awesome quote. And so true. This is how they make money. Only now the middle class is becoming poor so things arent so rosey anymore.

I will always in my heart feel for the little guy even if I became filthy rich.

anybody remember this guy.. he was our last hope.. he was assassinated in 1963.. with him died any chance at equality..

http://www.sqvirtual.com/img/jfk1.jpg

..as the Free Mason run anonymous "club" took power from then on. (Bushes, Kissinger, Q of E, many more, even Aleister Crowley and his demonic, satanic leanings were members)

Study the FREE MASONS. There you will see that this was all planned in the 40s. A power grab that layed out the Bushes (or their offspring) as presidents way back then.. that meant getting rid of three obstacles in the 60s..

our dreams (both black and white) died in the 60s as the path was changed and weighted way more heavily against you

(the corporate pigs or maybe Dion himself is censoring the real version)

but this is very nice

dude you're nuts, you aren't going to start a french revolution or anything, especially if gfy is your starting point

Because I hate the Credit Card companies.

Fuck em the way they fucked us. I did not say not pay anyone back.. only the credit card companies.. only they should get fucked.

I know Steve, I am just venting. :) A person has to come across as nuts to get your attention. :)

I already have the attention of GFY. I could prob get the attention of the world if I wanted it. But I dont.

Instead I will go back into my own world and relish the coming economic failure.

Wont hurt me. Will bring many down to my level.

A collapse is needed.

when you got nothing, you got nothing to lose, you're invisible now



noone can hurt you, noone, you are now in control

they have things to lose, you do not, you are now in control

Best poster on this board. But then what would we expect out of JC. :)

Yes it was a good system. And yes if you make less than aprrox $1500 you qualify for food stamps so the very poor will get by.

I purposely took a super left stance in my postings today just to see where things stand. And amazingly most seem to agree with me even tho I am talking extremes.

Yes the days of armed revolution are over but at least the little guy can rant, post a Kennedy pic and hope for better days. :)

Very well said JC. I am not an expert at any of this. I f'n hate politics but I am a survivor who knows how to get by and who knows where I really stand as a little guy.

Ah, there we go.... the seen vs the unseen... As Bastiat already noted over a 160 years ago: When government intervenes in the economy and takes resources, money, capital, labor,... away from private sectors and uses them for its own projects, we end up seeing the end result of the government's project, but we don't get to see what would otherwise have been accomplished by the people who were affected by the government's plundering...

Yes, government agencies laid the foundations for the internet, but it was the free market (the voluntary exchange of goods, services and ideas) that made the internet into what it is today. No government bureaucrat ever decided that we needed porn sites, entrepreneurs saw an opportunity and made a lot of money by giving the people what they wanted. No government bureaucrat ever decided how many hosting companies we needed, how search engines needed to work, that we needed an IM system or that people needed to video tape themselves while lip syncing....

And even if the government hadn't laid the foundation, I'm sure we would still have "an internet". At 1 point there were over 250000 active BBSs in the US alone. Who knows what would or could have evolved out of that? To be honest, we'll never know.

The internet we have today, we have DESPITE of the government, not thanks to the government.

:thumbsup:thumbsup

This is the whole problem with government intervention: it only benefits the big corporations. It doesn't mater what kind of rationale they use to justify their activities, more regulations and government programs only benefit the big corporations that are in bed with the government and the government itself.

The solution isn't to tax this or that group more or less. The solution is to end government intervention.

Im beting on the fact that there are just a whole lot more freeloaders than there used to be.

To me it is becoming us against them.

Us being those barely scrapping by. Who work hard but never get ahead. Them being those who are super rich. Those in powerful corps who are making money hand over fist.

It is a war. An internal war to get by. To survive. To maybe have a little something for your kids.

I have absolutely ZERO love for the rich. It is war. I am not rich. They are. It is Us against Them.

down and out, it cant be helped, if there is a lot of it about



the best you can hope for is to become invisible

and to take the rich "for a ride" at every chance you get

There is NO love for the super rich. You are despised by the working poor and now the middle class. Hide in your ivory towers. That is where you belong. That is where you must stay. You have fucked people over to make your money. You are the shitstains of this country. NOT the heroes like you should be but rather the shitstains of America.

The street is MINE. The street belongs to the poor and middle class. You must hide so noone hurts you. So noone sues you. You have money but you must always watch what you say. I dont have to watch shit because you the rich can not hurt me.

You can only hurt each other which is perfect. One greedy rich bastard suing another greedy rich bastard.

It is very liberating once you know the score.

I wish the kids in Vancouver would have really tore the fucking place up.

If they are poor, you can only lock them up. You can not get monitary rewards and instead must eat the loss you rich pigs. Eat the fucking loss.

God bless the young rebels of today.

Fuck all authority and fuck all the super rich.

Exactly. End lobbying tomorrow is step #1 which will never happen short of revolution or maybe voting in a true radical. Which still wont happen. We need a majority of radicals in the house and senate as well.

The US govt creates laws that benefit corporations (which then kick back and benefit the politician). Simple as that. It is a crappy system. Did Jefferson and Washington forsee lobbying? No.

And it is starting to show a real seperation of wealth in our country as Mr. Reich points out.

Can't end lobbying... Power corrupts... vote anyone into power and they'll end up doing bad things.

what people need to do is recognize the state for what it really is: an organization that offers certain services (protection, arbitration etc) and that 1 eliminates its competition by force and 2 forces everyone to buy its services (through taxation).

From an ethical point of view these are acts of aggression.
From an economic point of view, this is incredibly inefficient. The state has no incentive to a good job at the services it claims to provide. Unlike in a free market where you can change security providers or insurance companies if you are not happy with the quality of the service they provide or if you are not happy with their pricing structure, the state will force you to buy its services.

One day in the future people will look back at these times and say: wtf were they thinking.

Very well said.

The state is basicly your enemy. The farther away and more invisible you are from them the better.

Ever get involved with the state and money. They are a nightmare. A beaurocratic nightmare who all you really want to do is "get rid of them" and "get them out of your life"

Trust me, they are not your buddy. They are just another asshole trying to make money off you.

The gov also gave big subcidies for the cable, phone companies to beef up their systems for the internet. U owe your living to the gov god that must kill some people on here. Lol

Also the problem isnt too many programs, its too little money coming in. Once upon a time this country built great road systems and public colleges. Now we got a rotting bridge and road system, no public college but the rich pay tbe lowest taxes since 1930. Also where are all those jobs tbose low taxes were going to bring?

True. It is murky waters and not all cut and dried. :)

Altho my wireless service is really crappy lately. :) Must be the humidity I think.

The state is certainly way better than the fed. Less corrupted. Way less.

Jesse V proved anyone can be Gov which was really fantastic and did restore my faith a bit.

I need a song or two or this stuff gives me a headache :)

Jesse Ventura for president. :)

Jesse would kick ass if he ever made it that far.

Cmon Jesse saves us.

show us what your worth :)



and one more



cause I may need to get high after all this :)

Jesse would run the country like Katy Perry sings..

fantabulously :) With fire and guts like our forefathers had.

Do I need to drag the forefathers into this. :)

You do realize advocating for the super-rich is tantamount to advocating for a lower income for yourself, right? It's like saying, "no, no, it's ok. you keep right on consolidating all of the wealth. even if that means fucking over the middle class, and depleting my customer base, you go right for it!".

I'm all for taxing them at 85%, like they once were. Nobody needs $400,000,000 a year, and nobody is worth that amount.

This was one thing this thread opened my eyes on. I used to fear making money hehe (not really) cause of those terrible 50%+ tax rates and the most they now pay is 35%. I must have missed that on the Obama info speech somewhere.

And mostly only on Cap Gains as they comtinually reinvest and thus claim the expense. (which is smart) but still just another way they make even more money.

BTW, wasnt this Obama character a total dissapointment? I admit I thought this black guy was going to kick ass. First black. Boy is he going to get it done. :1orglaugh

He is damn near worse than Bush. In fact he may be.

We all Know George 2 wasnt the brightest bulb but at least he was charming. This guy is all serious all the time and yet the country is no better and prob worse off.

George had charm, Clinton had charm, this guy comes across as a cold fish who hasnt done diddly squat worth mentioning so far.

Speaking of Clinton. How in the hell did he balance the budget in 1999 only to be trillions back in debt. And Papa Bush had us a trillion or so in and Clinton balanced the budget.

He was the man and maybe even throws a wrench into my Free Masons theory (although there are lots of shady things in his background and term too)

Porn was booming in 1999-2000. It went to hell in 2001 as soon as "dumb" George (as opposed to "sinister" George) took office. Immediately and never recovered.

Coincidence or something deeper. You decide.

What? You mean like, I never said make the gov bigger?

Right... social programs do nothing, help nobody, are a total waste, and have a zero success rate for helping people. Wow.. Brainwashed much?

Clearly the solution is you finally understanding what big gov actually is and how you can actually change it. Big Gov is in your local city and State closing and defunding good programs (like school programs) and others that help people, and move that money to areas they profit from, and not a reduction in cost/budget/expenses, which is what was pitched.

They're taking away what your tax dollars SHOULD be doing, helping YOU, because they're are YOURS... rather than moving to projects that make other people richer and NEVER benefit you!

Wake up!

We collected more tax revenue because of the economic boom mixed with the fed spending less money than they were taking in, not that they spent less, they spent more, we just took in that much more tax rev.

Then Bush came in and cut taxes, that alone put the ratio out of balance, we took in less tax and still spent more. Then he really started spending like mad, then hid it from us, and the rest is history.

:thumbsup :thumbsup :thumbsup

:1orglaugh
The mindset of the rabble is stunning.

Bingo :thumbsup

thats so weird! The chart here shows the exact opposite:
http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/...or =c&local=s

in fact, if you look at 1999 and 2000, we actually spent less than we did in 1980 (a 20 year roll back)

Gee, I wonder who's right.

You guys are all missing the BIG picture! Whether, we (and by we I mean Westerners in general) like it or not we are going to have to compete in the future with 1.4 billion Chinese and almost a billion people in India. Both of these countries are now turning out more and more educated individuals that will work for a few dollars a day. The West, with it's bloated unions, government, health care, etc., CANNOT compete. It's NOT the U.S. economy - it IS the GLOBAL ECONOMY. The West's time has passed.

Don't like it - Too bad, so sad.

Lmao! Truly, had to get up from the pc, my lungs hurt from laughing so much... no idea.



Those %'s are with the growth we had, I mean come on... lol. And it includes the social security fund (which is kinda a wash but adds to it), and it includes the gov loans (like trust funds) to itself, which makes the numbers look pretty, while increasing the national debt, which went up the entire time he was in office.

What's really funny, is the increase in revenue he did have, was mostly do to him increasing the taxes on the wealthiest tax brackets first... Hello! Then the economic boom happened. Then, if things wouldn't have changed, the % of national debt could have dropped... because of tax revenue, again!

I think I'm going to frame your comment... I'm love'in it!

Odd, the facts and the charts tell a different story.
It's so crazy.
I wonder who's right?

Lol again... You ask who's right? Lol, your chart doesn't prove anything I said wrong. I explained the chart, but please keep going, it's truly funny to watch you now.

Check it out chump change! When you borrow money from gov holdings, like ss interest from a major spike in tax revenue (over 2/3 of the surplus), and you use that to pay off the public debt, it's a wash... the gov was borrowing money from itself, creating more debt, to make little yuppies like yourself all wishy washy inside that the gov actually did something good.

If we actually had a surplus any year he was in office, the national debt would have went down.

Use your brain...

100 economies!

what is the classification of "super rich?" makes sense they only pay capital gains tax since they probably dont work :2 cents:

The standing definition of rich is if your family income is over $250,000 per year. That is what Obama says and they want to raise your taxes.

Really, $250,000 is just middle class with a good education, nice house in the burbs, 2 cars, and a wife with a good job, too.

The politicians are all trying to destroy the middle class just as fast as they can so we can become a well educated, third world country.