ShellyCrash

Ditto to that.

If I can ask, how severe is the autism? Does your sister's child emotionally connect and respond to her?

Just seems like so many kids they label autistic really are much more functional and maybe suffer from aspergers or perhaps mislabeled add / adhd. No one I know personally who has an autistic child really has what one would consider a classically autistic child which just makes me suspicious of over diagnosis. Either way sorry to hear that and wish your fam the best.

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JFK

so much crap vaccines out there they try and push on you

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_Richard_

when i start reading stories about bayer infecting most of europe with HIV because they could

that's when.

WarChild

So most of Europe has HIV? Who exactly directed this? Let me guess, Illuminati?

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_Richard_

my bad, when i said 'most' i was referring to the actual landmass and bulk of nations that make up 'europe'

i have no idea who directed it, and i must say jumping to the 'Illuminati' counter argument is, well, slightly tin headed no?

BittieBucks Eric

Errrrrrr

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WarChild

I agree the counter argument was over-the-top, but that was intended because of the way you originally worded your response.

The point is, that almost any Doctor will tell you to get your child vaccinated. I think it's a good plan for people to do their own research, and it may well be that not all vaccinations are necessary or justifiable. What I take exception with is people that are dead set against vaccinations, based on spotty research and worse yet the full on conspiracy nuts that think it's some global elite's plan to control the population. Funnily enough people are living longer after the introduction of vaccines than they ever did before. Infant mortality is down and quality of life is up. If it is indeed an evil plan, it's not a very good one and it isn't working.

For me, it makes sense that a Doctor would have a far better understanding of these things than me. Not only are they much more educated on Human biology, but their depth of their experience would clearly dwarf mine. The only way for vaccination to be to really be the "population control experiment" or whatever other nonsense people are claming is if it's a vast conspiracy that involves pretty much all medical science. It's absurd on the face of the argument.

Now I'm not claiming you're one of these people, and I hope you aren't.

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dyna mo

slightly off topic, but what about dogs? i stopped getting my dog vaccinated ~3 years ago, he's 4 now.

IllTestYourGirls

I think this is the interview where the CDC talks about the trigger.



(I may be wrong about the % Im going on memory from when the interview first aired.)

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_Richard_

i didn't realize that was your point. My understanding of your question was 'when do people stop trusting their doctor', and personally the bayer fiasco is a fantastic example of dream vs reality.

if you want a tin head argument on vaccinations and population control, i'd say you're barking up the wrong tree as there is plenty of weird shit that floats around the birth control / HPV tests and why all these drugs get 'clinical trials' in countries that are unable to properly form governments.

here is a question of my own however:

if you were the head of the illuminati or whatever you said, and you had conspiracies to hide, how would you hide them in the wonderful and awe-inspiring age of the googlwebz?

IllTestYourGirls

Here is some more reading about the trigger.

"something else" could = vaccines.

http://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/autism/mit...encephalopathy

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_Richard_

shall i google that for you?

hottoddy

With youngsters, I've looked into this issue. The vaccine/autism link is complete BS. There is simply no evidence. The mercury preservative (which was their best argument) was largely phased out between 1999-2003, yet autism rates continue to climb. Why? Because no one calls kids retarded anymore! Instead they have ADD/ADHD, some form of autism or other syndrome. They've broadened the definition of autism to include even kids with the slightest introverted tendencies (mild Aspergers).

The autism/vaccine scare has also done society a huge disservice, with cases of virtually wiped out diseases on the rise again (measles, mumps, tuberculosis and rubella). Even polio is on the rise in the US again. Fucking polio!? Idiot parents are not getting their children inoculated, and rely on the rest of us to keep them safe. Since most kids get vaccinated, they don't have to worry, right? So far, these diseases are still contained - but who knows in the future. In my state, all you need is a "philosophical objection" to be allowed into public school without your shots. Lame.

I don't opt for any optional vaccinations but my kids have all the required ones. Even though there are more vaccinations today, they trigger far less immunity/antibody responses than in the past. In the past, they carpet bombed. So arguably, vaccines are less harsh on the body.

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_Richard_

i was under the impression the diagnose procedure had been changed and there is still argument on whether autism is increasing or if it's all simply better, or enthusiastic, diagnoses.

found it interesting that rates for middle-upper classes has gone through the roof in comparison to poor classes.. but that could simply be a funding issue

BittieBucks Eric

If you're refering to this: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/2960294.stm

Then what's the link with vaccines? It was contaminated medicine for haemophiliacs.

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_Richard_

again, i was answering 'When do you trust the Internet over your Doctor's advice? What's the criteria?'

my bad for not deleting the rest of the post

cherrylula

remember my dog thread last year? they did a necropsy, all she had was meningitis...

but take a sick 8 pound dog, shoot her up with vaccines (thats what they did when I took her in), and yeah guess what she had a seizure that night and didn't make it. I regret taking her to the vet, she was getting better but I still wanted to take her in to get looked at. Less than 48 hours and about $1200 later all I had was a dead dog.

I don't care what anyone says, she had a better chance had I not taken her in.

cherrylula

Well she thinks he has asbergers, although he was diagnosed with autism. Luckily it isn't severe, but she started him in therapy almost a year ago now. He is just starting to talk finally, is almost 4 now. He doesn't throw tantrums as much, she's had him in classes, one on one, all sorts of things. He is pretty affectionate and started making eye contact a few months ago. Prior to around one year old he used to eat all sorts of things and even smile in pictures. You can see in photographs! But he's always responded to her, just been wild and unable to understand things. He does not like noisy places, or too many people. Lucky for him my sister is a social butterfly, so I think her lifestyle has helped his condition.

Unfortunately he won't eat anything but french fries. I'd even go as far as to say maybe this kid just has mental issues, and isn't autistic, or has aspergers. But I have seen it first hand. Take an active little 3 year old boy, offer him cookies, ice cream, ALL sorts of food and watch him not eat any of it. Something is wrong with him! He won't even eat cupcakes, and only recently started to eat ketchup with his fries. LOL. So he pretty much lives on milk and french fries. You wouldn't know it, he's big for his age and cute as a healthy button. But yeah, something is off with a kid who won't eat the yummiest food and only french fries.

wehateporn

For anyone out there who does feel strongly that they need to receive vaccines, here are the most important things to protect yourself and/or your child:-

- Never have more than 1 vaccine at a time, always leave at least 2 weeks, ideally more. They don't tell you this as it's bad for business, once you or your child is there it's best for them to pump you with as many as possible to maximize profits.

- Never have a vaccine when you are sick or have a fever.

- Never give a vaccine to someone who is malnourished or hasn't been eating well.

The majority of significant vaccine damage is caused in those three cases

Also obviously always steer clear of the likes of the Swine Flu Vaccine and HPV Vaccine unless you want your fertility reduced, which is the true agenda behind those two programs.

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wehateporn

Now, here's the other side of it, rather that asking are vaccines good or bad for us, what you don't often hear asked is "Is mealses good for us?" or "Is Mumps good for us?"

Vaccination: The Hidden Truth http://naturalnews.tv/v.asp?v=0752DA...F40B104A322319

Our immune system needs to learn to fight, so would a Black Belt at Karate have still been any good without any practice fighting? Of course not. What's been covered-up very well over the years is the fact that once a child has finished with measles (which they will be fine with unless they are malnourished) they have a growth spurt and it's been observed that their drawing capabilities jump to a new level. What about Mumps? It leaves girls immune to Ovarian Cancer. The trend is that each of these illnesses that your immune system has learned to kick the ass of, it learns some tricks from it. By having vaccines we are limiting our capabilities and making ourselves more likely to come down with cancers etc in the future. These childhood illnesses seem to be sending us into a state that looks bad but which is actually advacing us. Like a caterpillar going into a cocoon. Maybe one day someone will say "This looks terrible what's happened to the caterpillar there, let's give them vaccines to save them from these horrible cocoons".

I hear you say "but we still need to vaccinate malnourished Africans!"...the problem is that vaccines should never be given to the malnourished, as the vaccines will take down the malnourished just as the illnesses do.

Then you've got silly vaccines like the Chicken Pox vaccine. Who does Chicken Pox kill? Adults is the answer. The Chicken Pox vaccine doesn't always work and when it does the immunity doesn't last for ever. By having the Chicken Pox vaccine instead of Chicken Pox you put yourself at risk of catching Chicken Pox as an adult, because either the vaccine didn't work or the immunity runs out (artificial immunity has a life span, real immunity lasts a lifetime and even goes through breast milk to help a babies immune system). The adults who die of Chicken Pox are the ones who take Aspirin. Never mix Aspirin with Chicken Pox (tell that to as many people as you can). The Chicken Pox wouldn't have killed them by itself. http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/15/health/15pox.html

Vaccines make a lot of money, the industry will not tell us this type of information, it is their job to scare us and then provide the 'Cure' or the 'Protection'. In adult we don't tell the surfers where to get their stuff for free, but at least we're not killing people (well, not in my niche).

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bhutocracy

Yep and autism rates in America DIDN'T GO DOWN after they took it out of the mandatory childhood vaccines (it still exists in some adult ones and is about as harmless as eating a fish) = your point is irrelevent and thiomersal has jack shit to do with autism..

wehateporn

The studies are flawed, the industry would never go out to prove that vaccines cause autism, they would be shooting themselves in the feet. It would be like McDonalds going out looking for real evidence that their food is unhealthy, it doesn't happen, any evidence of that they find gets hidden away, instead they try to prove the opposite. It's business!

Being injected with a metallic substance is completely different to consuming it orally. We have all kinds of protection mechanisms in our stomachs to do their best to stop the wrong stuff from getting into our blood stream. This is why we don't eat vaccines. The mechanism wouldn't be triggered. Whereas when something is injected directly into the bloodstream the body has an emergency mechanism of attempting to create antibodies to whatever has just appeared. Sometimes that bit works, sometimes it doesn't and in unfortunate cases you create antibodies to a substance you weren't meant to e.g. Squalene which is already present in your body (prepare for a life of pain like the Gulf War vets). As for the Mercury, you have to hope it gets to your kidneys before it gets to your brain, if it does you'll be ok, but if it gets to your brain first it's clearly going to damage it as it's a neurotoxin, but maybe it will go to small part of the brain that you can do without and nobody will notice any difference. There are certain parts of the brain that you definitely don't want that mercury touching.

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wehateporn

Whether you're for or against, it's good to at least hear out what this chap has to say on the matter...

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bhutocracy

Translation: "My opinion is unfalsifiable and I will reject any evidence that contradicts it".

Studies??? Look at the autism rates yourself. LOOK. THEY DON'T FALL AFTER IT WAS TAKEN OUT. Your beliefs are non-factual, not based in reality and as such, are literally stupid. If you want to maintain your chosen reality I suggest you, like some slightly more intelligent anti vaxxers, move onto the "it's something else in the vaccines" position which is the only semi-tenable thing to do having been proven factually wrong on one count. it's a bit like the end of the world guy, move on from May dude, you can always say it's happening in October.

OR you could think Big pharma is putting autism in the water or contrails now to MAKE UP FOR what would have been the drop from having it taken out of the vaccines so no one sues them (except for the contrails of course.)

tiger

Fact is Autism symptoms start appearing the same time kids get vaccines, that plus this idiot that releases fraudulent research and it fuels the BS that one causes the other. Look at the stats, the risks of the vaccines are next to nothing compared to what they can save your kid from getting.

Vaccines are KNOWN to prevent disease. It is nothing more than a rumor/myth or at best slight possibility that vaccines cause autism. How anyone could choose to listen to a rumor over a known fact when it comes to their kid's health is beyond me.

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tiger

LOL man I just read your post. What a joke. You should go read up on Chicken Pox before you go making statements like that.
http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd-vac/...s-faqs-gen.htm

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wehateporn

Which bit of the chicken pox info do you believe to be inaccurate?

By the way, I'd recommend looking into the history of the CDC, in particular look for evidence as to who's interests they serve. The CDC website will never speak out against vaccines; they are there to promote them.

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wehateporn

The problem is the studies which claim to prove there is not a link between vaccines and autism are what is known as "Cheque-Book Science" i.e. you pay a team to investigate, they know the results you want, if they come up with the wrong conclusion their funding gets pulled and they are not used again. The research is never published. The people with the cheque-book continue paying researchers until a team come up with the results that will be ideal for marketing. That team then gets plenty of future funding. Yep, it's all a con! Follow the money

We need an independent body set up with no incentive for corruption, but the industry will fight tooth and nail to stop that ever happening

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MediaGuy

Actually I was being too vague, sorry - I was referring to the flu shot or "booster" specifically, and to the adjuvants and preservatives added to the vaccines they pump into pre-pubescent children (in excess, IMHO).



Evidently some vaccines were/are effective - and some are just too precautionary and unproven and present too much potential risk versus their potential benefits (too many ifs, buts and maybes in that train of thought) to be used. The HPV vaccine is one case in point.

As it is, they're just using commerce to turn the market into one big human trial experiment rather than testing before release.

H1N1 turned out to be bogus.

.

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_Richard_

i know a person who knows people that know of clinical trials set up in Uganda

a place that has had an interesting chain of assassinations whenever a strong government comes up

uno

Based on that quote it seems like a stretch to assume the whole sub group of "something else" to possibly largely consist of vaccinations.

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Maybe the whole concept of vaccines and the sense of powerlessness that surrounds it is what is giving off the HEAT?

dyna mo

just back from the grocery store, it was plastered outside and in with banners about the new required by law whooping cough vaccine needed for kids to attend school in cali.

ShellyCrash

Whooping cough is a son of a bitch. I had all my vaccines growing up and I still got it. Put me in the hospital alot as a wee one.

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ShellyCrash

You know how vaccines work, right? A little bit of a dead or weakened virus is introduced into the body so your immune system can, let's say, "learn it's moves" if you will, so if it ever tried to infect you at full strength in the future your immune system can karate chop it the fuck out of there.

I kind of see what you're getting at, but that argument should be applied to the over use of anti bacterials and sanitizers, not vaccines.

Also, like Tiger mentioned already, you're way off on the chicken pox bit.

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dyna mo

i had no idea it's that big of deal. just struck me as interesting, the vaccine biz tying into grocery stores, i've seen the flu shot signage but never *get your kid's vaccine here*

wehateporn

What your immune systems learn from vaccines, is like learning to play soccer on the XBox. You know the basics, but you've never had to do it properly. Like you say, antibiotics are another huge problem in society; they should only be used when they are absolutely essential e.g non-viral pnumonia. It takes 1 year for your body's natural bacteria to recover after a course of antibiotics. There are many people coming down with cancers and illnesses that have been caused by antibiotics but nobody is tracking it, the same as with vaccines. They don't track as it's bad for business! What we don't know won't hurt business

Like I asked Tiger, let me know which part of the chicken pox info you believe is inaccurate. It's something I've been obsessed with researching for many years (after my sister died from a vaccine) so I'd very much like to know if you have found any inaccuracies.

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wehateporn

My sister is in the states and she's been telling me what it's like in Walmart. She is someone who was previously into vaccines until she started researching, now she's strongly oppossed. She says being in the US listening to all the vaccine propaganda is almost like being in a Sci Fi film.

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dyna mo

i wouldn't go that far, but i don't have kids so i'm not the target consumer.

Barefootsies

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BittieBucks Eric

Yeah, but playing a Youtube researcher doesn't always get you the right result

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wehateporn

Absolutely, one has to pick their sources carefully.

I'd recommend Dr Mercola, I've been reading his site for the last 10 years http://www.mercola.com/ and he always seems to be at least 5 years ahead of the game. When you hear something on his site, nobody else knows it, then some years later it's all over the news.

It's also very important for people to learn about the history of the Pharm Industry and to understand the business side, one has to understand the big picture in order to understand what's going on. It's not good enough to read one study which appears to prove a vaccine is safe and effective. A small amount of knowledge is very dangerous. We have to understand that people are trying to make money and balance that into the equation.

I certainly wouldn't trust a company like Bayer with the health of my child; these people are criminals. No matter what studies they show me, by default, I would never trust them.

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If this is all true, where are the successful vaccine = autism class action suits?

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marlboroack

See, people today are not as fucked up as they were when i was a kid.