Poll: Adult Industry Split Over Content Piracy Action

[DVTimes]

More adult entertainment professionals would prefer to call in the lawyers to fight rampant content piracy rather than do nothing about it, according to the results of a new XBIZ Research poll.

The adult entertainment industry in the past few years has seen bottom lines sharply eroding because of illegal streamed content, leading to growing discontent over online thievery.

That discontent is so strong that one-third of those polled also feel that end-users should be held liable for poaching and sharing videos.

The results are based on opinions of members of XBIZ.net, the adult entertainment industry?s leading social network.

XBIZ asked community members, "Should legal action be taken against end-users involved in content piracy?"

XBIZ found that 33 percent of respondents said, "Yes, any and all end-users accessing pirated content." Another 38 percent said, "Yes, but only those who share and distribute pirated content. But 29 percent of those polled said, "No, legal action against end-users is ineffective."

Pirated adult content can be found everywhere over the Internet, particularly through BitTorrent networks and file-sharing lockers. In fact, some companies' entire catalogs are available online.

"Piracy has affected our entire industry," Burning Angel's Joanna Angel says, "but in our case we are a small company, and we would have been a bigger company if piracy weren't so rampant."

Piracy extends well past BitTorrent networks and file-sharing lockers. Some tube site operators, too, poach and republish adult content.

Being clubbed so hard by piracy, adult companies are fighting back with litigation, bundling defendants in large numbers, and going directly after tube site owners and file-sharing locker operators with multimillion-dollar suits.

Adult companies Corbin Fisher, VCX Inc., Grooby Productions, Titan Media, Lightspeed Media, BlazingBucks, Elegant Angel, West Coast Productions and Axel Braun Productions have been the most prolific in filing porn BitTorrent claims.

And Private Media Group and Pink Visual have taken the strongest legal approaches against tube sites posting content online illegally.

http://www.xbiz.com/news/133911

[Juicy D. Links]

I am Paul Markham

[JustDaveXxx]

Thats an easy one to figure out. Fans and surfers are for free and producers and people that make money off of porn say "no."

[Barefootsies]

How many adult webmasters or people in this industry pay for...

* Music
* Movies
* Video Games
* Software
* Scripts

That will give you some idea of this industry's 'thoughts' on the subject.

[u-Bob]

alienating potential customers....?

[Robbie]

Originally Posted by Barefootsies

How many adult webmasters or people in this industry pay for...

* Music
* Movies
* Video Games
* Software
* Scripts

That will give you some idea of this industry's 'thoughts' on the subject.

I pay for every one of those things. Can't stand thieves and I was raised not to steal.

[Barefootsies]

Originally Posted by Robbie

I pay for every one of those things.

[DVTimes]

Originally Posted by Barefootsies

How many adult webmasters or people in this industry pay for...

* Music
* Movies
* Video Games
* Software
* Scripts

That will give you some idea of this industry's 'thoughts' on the subject.

i do not think i have not paid for the above.

though to be honest i have not purchased music for ages. i used to by records all the time, then cd's, but never bothered with mp3's as they seem to have no value to me.

with films you get extras on dvd, plus the quality is much better. i see no point spending a few pounds less to get some rubish filmed direct from the screen. plus the cost is not that much. even blue rays are cheap now.

though if i was a serfer i would presume its ok to dopwnload porn free as its all over the place. a lot of forums have it on free. and lets face it, most porn site owners seem not to do anything about it.

[halfpint]

Originally Posted by Barefootsies

How many adult webmasters or people in this industry pay for...

* Music
* Movies
* Video Games
* Software
* Scripts

That will give you some idea of this industry's 'thoughts' on the subject.

yep I buy, dont very often buy videos but we always rent them and i have a tone of purchased CDs Dont really buy video games any more im to old lol, and have been ripped of with buying scripts but still buy them and yep i buy software

[Barefootsies]

Originally Posted by DVTimes

i do not think i have not paid for the above.

I am not saying that there are not people in this industry who DO pay for their Photoshop, or other scripts and software. Or that there are people who pay for their music. As there are many who do, myself included.

However, there is not a day that goes by on GFY that someone does not reference, "they have not paid for music for years" or pointing people to some website, forum, or torrent to download the latest hacked, cracked, whatever.

If you want to cry in your beer about that stuff, look in your own back yard at your peers. Many of the same people who arrogantly brag about the above (not paying for blah blah blah), are some of the same people crying in these daily Paul Markham tube threads for the past three years. Where the collective attitude is, "it's ok to steal music, movies, software.. but if someone steals my content... oh lawd....".

You can't have it both ways.

[Robbie]

Originally Posted by Barefootsies

However, there is not a day that goes by on GFY that someone does not reference, "they have not paid for music for years" or pointing people to some website, forum, or torrent to download the latest hacked, cracked, whatever.

You're overlooking the fact that 99.9% of the people on GFY are not in this business or they THINK they are because they signed up for an affiliate program.

Most real business people are respectful and not thieves. It's the pissants in life who are the ones to hunt for everything "free"

[L-Pink]

I don't and won't steal anything.

[Barefootsies]

Originally Posted by Robbie

You're overlooking the fact that 99.9% of the people on GFY are not in this business or they THINK they are because they signed up for an affiliate program.

I do understand, and concede your point that most of those on the board regulars on the forums are not full time in this industry and neither do, nor have, made any real (six figure) money in adult online.

Originally Posted by Robbie

Most real business people are respectful and not thieves. It's the pissants in life who are the ones to hunt for everything "free"

I am not going to name some of the most recognized on GFY or other forums I have seen repeatedly bragging about this over the years with not paying for this or that. But some of those guys are 100% in this industry.

[gideongallery]

Originally Posted by Barefootsies

I am not saying that there are not people in this industry who DO pay for their Photoshop, or other scripts and software. Or that there are people who pay for their music. As there are many who do, myself included.

However, there is not a day that goes by on GFY that someone does not reference, "they have not paid for music for years" or pointing people to some website, forum, or torrent to download the latest hacked, cracked, whatever.

If you want to cry in your beer about that stuff, look in your own back yard at your peers. Many of the same people who arrogantly brag about the above (not paying for blah blah blah), are some of the same people crying in these daily Paul Markham tube threads for the past three years. Where the collective attitude is, "it's ok to steal music, movies, software.. but if someone steals my content... oh lawd....".

You can't have it both ways.

don't equate not paying for music in years to be supporting piracy

i live in a country that has a piracy tax that goes straight to the music industry

i haven't paid for music since the supreme court ruled that tax made p2p downloads fair dealing (valid contract with offer acceptance and consideration).

[JustJ]

Regarding the Poll Options.

Say I'm a surfer. I go on the internet.. There's free porn to download..

How the hell are you gonna blame that guy that has no clue?

[SallyRand]

Originally Posted by JustJ

Regarding the Poll Options.

Say I'm a surfer. I go on the internet.. There's free porn to download..

How the hell are you gonna blame that guy that has no clue?

Because the end-user is the easiest to intimidate into a cash settlement, that's why.........

[JustDaveXxx]

Originally Posted by Robbie

You're overlooking the fact that 99.9% of the people on GFY are not in this business or they THINK they are because they signed up for an affiliate program.

So true and so on point.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by u-Bob

alienating potential customers....?

Stupidest thing ever. Maybe shoplifters shouldn't be prosecuted, as the shoplifter might be a potential customer.

Suing pirates won't bring the money flowing in. So far no one has found a way to monetise pirates except the pirates. Suing them is about as effective at stopping piracy as jailing criminals stops crime. Does that mean the police should stop doing their job?

[DVTimes]

he he

we have 4 Paul Markham's

[DVTimes]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

Stupidest thing ever. Maybe shoplifters shouldn't be prosecuted, as the shoplifter might be a potential customer.

Suing pirates won't bring the money flowing in. So far no one has found a way to monetise pirates except the pirates. Suing them is about as effective at stopping piracy as jailing criminals stops crime. Does that mean the police should stop doing their job?

a lot of shops (UK) do not prosecute.

[sexyclicks]

Originally Posted by Barefootsies

How many adult webmasters or people in this industry pay for...

* Music
* Movies
* Video Games
* Software
* Scripts

That will give you some idea of this industry's 'thoughts' on the subject.

THAT should be a poll

[C H R I S]

I am paul markham

[Barry-xlovecam]

With regard to the instant issue: "But 29 percent of those polled said, "No, legal action against end-users is ineffective." This would best state my opinion. I can see little point in alienating possible customers.

With regard to xlovecam's position: All of our personnel are instructed to only use licensed content and software development tools.

I would agree that the Internet "community" as a whole has little respect for copyright, licensing, trademark and patent. Most are on the receiving end they are sick of paying. Some will even try to steal hot spots ... I think that if you offer good value that you will sell. But there is a dose of reality ? buyers have become very selective in their choices the past few years.

Lets face it ? if the surfer can rub one out viewing a 10 year old full length feature for free on an illegal tube site ? they will. Probably, 90% of those same surfers were wanking faster at 20 second clips for free 5 years ago.

Lost profits may be partly imaginary.

Adapt or die is bullshit but compete or perish is still truth.

[Robbie]

Originally Posted by Barry-xlovecam

Lets face it ? if the surfer can rub one out viewing a 10 year old full length feature for free on an illegal tube site ? they will. Probably, 90% of those same surfers were wanking faster at 20 second clips for free 5 years ago.

All these expert opinions...

I don't agree with that statement one bit. Selling a LOT of memberships over the last 15 years I can tell you that porn consumers want the NEWEST scenes.
I personally wouldn't jerk off to a dated 10 year old porn scene...UNLESS it was one of my all time favorites.

And that would be because the girl in the scene did it for me. And then I would be compelled to find her latest work. And if she is already retired...then I would file that one scene away and drag it out every once in a while. Meantime I would hunt for a contemporary girl that makes my cock hard.

One thing IS absolute on the internet....Content ages QUICKLY. It's like dog years.
That's why the new piracy has hurt so badly. No longer was it old scenes from the 1970's and 80's being traded around....now it's full members areas from RIGHT NOW.

Hell I promote over 400 programs...and I'll get hosted galleries from a scene they just released that very day...and I can find the whole scene already stolen and uploaded to torrent, tube, and file sharing.

THAT is what kills us.

[Agent 488]

congrats on being the two people who never download anything for free.

[JFK]

Originally Posted by Juicy D. Links

I am Paul Markham

You look so handsome in your retirement

[marlboroack]

I voted

[Barefootsies]

Originally Posted by Robbie

I can tell you that porn consumers want the NEWEST scenes.

If it is from a particular 'brand', clip store or website, yes.

Originally Posted by Robbie

I personally wouldn't jerk off to a dated 10 year old porn scene...UNLESS it was one of my all time favorites.

This is ASSuming you/I/we/they have seen it before.

I have watched a lot of toe porn, but I can't say I have seen everything. There is plenty I stumble across on forums, or tubes, that I have never seen. Including some of those old 80's classics. If it is a hot scene, I will whip it out and say, "scream if you want to...".

A hot scene is a hot scene. Old or new. Sure I have favorites I go back to. But I am also purchasing at least a few new clips per week. As are many of my own patrons. There are still plenty of those guys buying some of the first year's shit as well.

Every day/week/month there is a new person with a credit card or surfer who finds you. I do not assume they have seen all you/I/we have to offer. While I can't speak to all of the mainstream porn markets. I know for fetish, if it hits the spot. People will pay for it. Especially with dick in hand.

[gideongallery]

Originally Posted by L-Pink

I don't and won't steal anything.

really how much did you pay for that picture that include man men actor in

that you always use to insult me.

liciencing content from a tv show can be very expensive.

[Robbie]

Originally Posted by Barefootsies

This is ASSuming you/I/we/they have seen it before.

I'm replying to the "10 year old" porn that was suggested would be just fine for everyone.

And I say "no".

You can't just regurgitate old porn and expect it to sell to anybody. The only "old" porn that can be niched is "classic" stuff. But that has a very narrow audience.

I can watch a porn scene from 10 years ago and KNOW it's old just from the way it's shot, the clothing, the hair, etc.. Same as if you watched an episode of a t.v. series from 10 years ago...even if you've never seen it before...you may watch it and enjoy it. But you would damn sure not want that to be the ONLY thing you watch. You'd want to watch the latest stuff that is out now.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by Robbie

All these expert opinions...

I don't agree with that statement one bit. Selling a LOT of memberships over the last 15 years I can tell you that porn consumers want the NEWEST scenes.
I personally wouldn't jerk off to a dated 10 year old porn scene...UNLESS it was one of my all time favorites.

Which is why we constantly produce the same "new scene" all the time.

Changing the sofa and the plastic doll many call models, isn't really making that much difference to the vast number of porn surfers.

Even in your greatest best most profitable time you were unable to persuade 99% of the people looking at your galleries.

1-100 of those clicking on a link was considered good by most, except the micro niches.

The newest scene is just the one never seen before, it could be 10 years old it could be 10 days old. If the you saw the 10 day old one yesterday, it's an old scene. If you had never seen the 10 year old one, it's a new scene.

Forgetting the HD effect.

Why don't people admit 99.9% of surfers aren't impressed enough in the product to buy it. They don't care if Robbie protects his product, because the next guy doesn't.

Come on Robbie tell us your conversion figures on views of a sample > clicks > sales.

You know if you tell us it 1-10 we will call bullshit and you know if you say 1-100 we will call bullshit and I'll tell you 99% weren't impressed enough to buy.

Not your fault, it's the fault of all those that thought traffic was king. The answer to nearly every sales problem was usually "You need more traffic." Rarely was it "Create something good if you want good sales."

When 99% were saying no, the answer was get another 100. Never get a better product and convert 1 of the 99. That was a stupid idea.

Welcome to 2011. When 999 don't spend to everyone who does.

[D Ghost]

Going after individual end-users is largely ineffective. End-users are not so worried about this, so education (scaring other people into not downloading copyrighted media, by making examples out of others) through litigation is not effective. We've seen that with the RIAA and MPAA. Also, it ends up costing more in legal fees, etc than is recovered (monetarily or "educationally").

The way to go is bottleneck it and cut it at the source... the publishers that are stealing it and distributing it.

Education by Lawsuit: Lesson Learned and Ignored
The RIAA has frequently justified the lawsuit campaign as the most effective way to get music fans to understand that downloading is illegal and can have serious consequences.119 In the words of top RIAA lawyer, Cary Sherman, "Enforcement is a tough love form of education."120 There is some evidence to support this view. After all, in light of the early headlines in most major media outlets, it would be remarkable if the lawsuits had failed to increase awareness of the record industry’s view that file sharing constitutes copyright infringement. An April 2004 survey revealed that 88% of children between 8 and 18 years of age believed that P2P downloading was illegal.121 At the same time, the survey also discovered that 56% of the children polled continue to download music. In fact, the children surveyed were more concerned about computer viruses than about being sued by the record industry. Another April 2004 survey, this one focusing on college-bound high school students, found that 89% of high school students continued to download music despite believing that it was against the law.122 This number decreased slightly in a 2006 survey by Piper Jaffrey that found that of 79% of high school students who obtain their music online, 72% use P2P networks to do so.123 In short, the RIAA’s "tough love" message has been delivered, and largely ignored.
The "educational" value of the litigation campaign is also diminishing because it has become "business as usual." Media coverage of the continuing lawsuit campaign has largely dissipated, with stories about the lawsuits migrating from the front to the back pages to not being covered at all.124 Indeed, in early 2006 the RIAA gave up its monthly press releases announcing how many individuals were being sued.

If the goal of the RIAA was to increase awareness of the copyright laws, that mission has been accomplished, albeit at the expense of financial hardship to nearly 30,000 arbitrarily chosen individuals. But as press attention fades, the "bang for the buck" provided by suing randomly-chosen filesharers has diminished as well.125 In other words, if the lawsuits are to continue indefinitely, they cannot be justified as an "educational" measure.

Read up and take some notes: http://www.eff.org/wp/riaa-v-people-years-later

[Robbie]

This ain't music. And some of us have already begun seeing the results of re-educating people who think it's okay to steal shit.

[Rochard]

Seems a lot of people want to be Paul Markham.

[D Ghost]

Originally Posted by Robbie

This ain't music. And some of us have already begun seeing the results of re-educating people who think it's okay to steal shit.

Music, movies (adult or non-adult), photos (adult or non-adult), they are all forms of media, and they all have issues with piracy. Porn is not some "special" type of media where the basic principles do not apply.

Producers, etc need to get more strategic in fighting infringement and learn from the mistakes of the RIAA and MPAA.

As I mentioned, going after the end-user is pointless. It does not scare them, and they ignore it (this has been well documented.)

In fact, the children surveyed were more concerned about computer viruses than about being sued by the record industry. In short, the RIAA?s "tough love" message has been delivered, and largely ignored.

P2PNet has managed to grab hold of the RIAA's tax documents for the last few years, and they make for some very entertaining reading. According to the RIAA?s disclosure form for just 2008, the outfit paid its lawyers more than $16,000,000 to recover $391,000 from P2P music traders. Between 2006 and 2008, the RIAA paid (mostly to lawyers) about $64 million to hunt down and threaten file sharers -- a process which only netted around $1.4 million (which didn't go to artists, of course).

Source

** There is not going to be an exception for adult production outfits going after end-users. They will see the same dismal results.


The issue needs to be dealt with at the source level. Going after the publishers (not the end-users)that provide access to the pirated and illegal content distribution channels.

[Robbie]

Originally Posted by DJ The Kid

Music, movies (adult or non-adult), photos (adult or non-adult), they are all forms of media, and they all have issues with piracy. Porn is not some "special" type of media where the basic principles do not apply.

Yes it is. And the fact that you don't realize that is pretty telling. You're talking about "media". I'm talking about a human need...in some people an ADDICTION...porn is VERY different. It deals with human sexuality. You might find more success in this business (above whatever success you already have) when you realize that.

I don't create "media". I create something that I love for people who simply can't get enough of it.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by DJ The Kid

Going after individual end-users is largely ineffective. End-users are not so worried about this, so education (scaring other people into not downloading copyrighted media, by making examples out of others) through litigation is not effective. We've seen that with the RIAA and MPAA. Also, it ends up costing more in legal fees, etc than is recovered (monetarily or "educationally").

The way to go is bottleneck it and cut it at the source... the publishers that are stealing it and distributing it.

Read up and take some notes: http://www.eff.org/wp/riaa-v-people-years-later

Define effective?

Effective could just be suing pirates profitably. Yes they have to go beyond a simple IP address. But once caught, then they can be offered the options of proving it wasn't them or going to court or settling out of court.

Shopping piracy is not a task industry can achieve, profiting from pirates IMO is fine. They profit from us, industry profits from them.

The suing potential customers is bullshit. Most of these guys will never buy while they can steal.

[FrozenJag]

All is pointless talk unless DMCA laws change.

As long as a site adheres to DMCA what really can be done?

Im not talking about site operators that steal and upload vids themselves, im talking 100 percent uploads by the sites users. Also, at the same time operators that reply and act on legit DMCA removal requests.

[DVTimes]

Originally Posted by Rochard

Seems a lot of people want to be Paul Markham.

i know

scary

[D Ghost]

Originally Posted by Robbie

Yes it is. And the fact that you don't realize that is pretty telling. You're talking about "media". I'm talking about a human need...in some people an ADDICTION...porn is VERY different. It deals with human sexuality. You might find more success in this business (above whatever success you already have) when you realize that.

I don't create "media". I create something that I love for people who simply can't get enough of it.

I understand that human sexuality is very powerful. And totally agree with you on that. But, I'm not here arguing about the difference between adult and non-adult media. I am talking about the umbrella of media, which porn falls under.

Example: The basic business fundamentals still apply to distributing, marketing and selling an adult magazine, as it does to a non-adult magazine. It's the content that is different.

Taking into consideration the fact that porn is a more urgent human desire, I still don't see how suing "end-users" is going to work or curb any piracy. Again, as we've seen from the evidence gathered from the efforts of other media industries going after end-users and ultimately reaping no benefits.

[DVTimes]

bump for today

[DVTimes]

bump for today

[pornmasta]

Originally Posted by Barefootsies

How many adult webmasters or people in this industry pay for...

* Music
* Movies

I go to the cinema.
I listen to legal webradio.
So i rarely download movies or music.

Originally Posted by Barefootsies

* Software
* Scripts

That will give you some idea of this industry's 'thoughts' on the subject.

I code my own stuff. (and sometimes i try to sell it)
People complain when they have to pay (IT IS NOT FREE WTF ????? )

Originally Posted by Barefootsies

* Video Games:

i used to download old stuff that i could anyway not get elsewhere as on the web.
I buy the other games (and i buy some).

[pornlaw]

Originally Posted by DJ The Kid

Going after individual end-users is largely ineffective. End-users are not so worried about this, so education (scaring other people into not downloading copyrighted media, by making examples out of others) through litigation is not effective. We've seen that with the RIAA and MPAA. Also, it ends up costing more in legal fees, etc than is recovered (monetarily or "educationally").

The way to go is bottleneck it and cut it at the source... the publishers that are stealing it and distributing it.

What I can tell you from being an attorney that is involved with the mass litigation bit torrent cases, the ISP are hating every minute of this.

What the RIAA and MPAA did was nothing compared to what the adult industry is doing. ISPs are the source. They know people are using their connections to download tons of shit for free. And now they are being forced to respond to over a 100,000 subpoena requests.

It is costing them time and money to deal with this. When it becomes too burdensome - they may actually restrict all the free downloading going on.

Further, one of us is eventually going to join an ISP to these lawsuits as a contributory copyright infringer, then see what happens. Theres no question they now have knowledge of mass infringement and if a court is willing to keep them involved and not dismiss them on a Rule 12(b)(6) motion, the shit is going to hit the fan.

[AsianDivaGirlsWebDude]

ADG

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by pornlaw

What I can tell you from being an attorney that is involved with the mass litigation bit torrent cases, the ISP are hating every minute of this.

What the RIAA and MPAA did was nothing compared to what the adult industry is doing. ISPs are the source. They know people are using their connections to download tons of shit for free. And now they are being forced to respond to over a 100,000 subpoena requests.

It is costing them time and money to deal with this. When it becomes too burdensome - they may actually restrict all the free downloading going on.

Further, one of us is eventually going to join an ISP to these lawsuits as a contributory copyright infringer, then see what happens. Theres no question they now have knowledge of mass infringement and if a court is willing to keep them involved and not dismiss them on a Rule 12(b)(6) motion, the shit is going to hit the fan.

It's all pressure on the act of piracy.

Will it stop? Not completely.

Will it have a big effect on online porn's income? No the downloaders will switch to Tubes.

[Captain Kawaii]

Originally Posted by Robbie

You're overlooking the fact that 99.9% of the people on GFY are not in this business or they THINK they are because they signed up for an affiliate program.

Most real business people are respectful and not thieves. It's the pissants in life who are the ones to hunt for everything "free"

I like your style...

Plus Windows 7 is watching my activities. lol.

[Jakez]

Bad poll options, I want to say no but I don't want to say going after end users is ineffective when the [good] result is spread throughout the media. I guess you could say I am for holding the end users responsible, but only if they are made an example of, but not made an example of by huge unrealistic fines. Man, it's a really fine line.

+1 for the Paul Markham option.

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

Define effective?

Effective could just be suing pirates profitably. Yes they have to go beyond a simple IP address. But once caught, then they can be offered the options of proving it wasn't them or going to court or settling out of court.

Shopping piracy is not a task industry can achieve, profiting from pirates IMO is fine. They profit from us, industry profits from them.

The suing potential customers is bullshit. Most of these guys will never buy while they can steal.

So you're saying going after the parent of a child who downloaded a bunch of illegal shit is OK?

You're also saying that no one visiting tubes are potential customers (you don't know whether they are or not), which contradicts everything you have ever said.

Shut the fuck up Paul Markham.

[DamianJ]

Originally Posted by DJ The Kid

Going after individual end-users is largely ineffective. End-users are not so worried about this, so education (scaring other people into not downloading copyrighted media, by making examples out of others) through litigation is not effective. We've seen that with the RIAA and MPAA. Also, it ends up costing more in legal fees, etc than is recovered (monetarily or "educationally").

The way to go is bottleneck it and cut it at the source... the publishers that are stealing it and distributing it.



Read up and take some notes: http://www.eff.org/wp/riaa-v-people-years-later

Quoted for truth

I was listening to a podcast yesterday saying that something like 26% of an ISPs traffic now was netflix and how p2p was like 3%. Their suggestion was that netflix had killed piracy because it offered a reasonably priced, easy, quick way to watch movie content.

Suing end users is bad. 1) It is quasi-blackmail 2) It does nothing to stop piracy 3) It makes the industry look like a cunt

[ThatOtherGuy - BANNED FOR LIFE]

Originally Posted by pornlaw

Further, one of us is eventually going to join an ISP to these lawsuits as a contributory copyright infringer, then see what happens. Theres no question they now have knowledge of mass infringement and if a court is willing to keep them involved and not dismiss them on a Rule 12(b)(6) motion, the shit is going to hit the fan.

As respectfully as can be intonated :
Why eventually? WTF? You mean it has not been done yet after all these years? Or even attempted? Seriously?

Why has a host not been thrown in with infringement in the first place as a contributory infringer? I think that would be logical from the get go of any copyright infringement situation. I know that if I were copyright attorney thats where I would take a copyright battle from the start.

I am confused?