Originally Posted by Deej (Post 18086753)

So we should punish all people in out society without violence? Just by simply telling them no?

I know a death row inmate is much different than a 3 year old. But, punishing spankings are not abuse... unless of course its a beating.

I dont know how you all were or were not spanked or how hard you think a spanking is... but by spank I personally am talking about an abrasive pat. no red marks, no pain. Its just a stern reprimand when "no" dosnt work with the same effect just a little more serious.

like i said though, to each their own... as long as the kid is not in any physical harm.

Originally Posted by V_RocKs (Post 18086994)

The problem with society is that someone at the top has to run it and has to run it right. There can be no break in the shit as it rolls downwards... It must touch everyone down the line. One miss and you end up with a murderer... Then a vigilante... Then you now need a guard... and things just unravel...

Originally Posted by CDSmith (Post 18084343)

You make some good points in your post Morten but I have to take issue with that last coment. It's a complete falacy. I was spanked as a child, at different times by both my dad and my mother. I can assure you I have a clear memory of pretty much every time and why it was done. I can also assure you that no one had (and still has) more respect or love for their parents than me. Sure as a little kid you fear the spanking, but even as a toddler I always knew it was done because A) I deserved it, and B) they cared.

Spanking isn't the evil thing that some seem to think it is. And in looking around at a lot of today's youth and teenagers who have no respect for adults nor a fear of authority, who are out stealing cars or otherwise shit-disturbing wherever they go and then mouth off at anyone who dares to challenge them or tell them what idiots they're being,... well, it's not hard to see that there wasn't enough discipline in their childhoods. :2 cents:

Of course everyone should go with what works for them. But people who flatly dismiss spanking, look down their noses at those who do it, etc, really need to wake up and take a look around in society because there's a real problem brewing out there. Teachers and principals used to have some disciplinary recourse back in my school days, now they have nothing. Expulsion? Pffft! Bratty undisciplined kids LOVE time off from school. Many of them have zero respect for a teacher's authority and couldn't care less if an adult is angry with them. They know the system and know how to work it to get that adult in trouble, which all but makes some adults actually fear the kids.

I'm not saying spanking is the end-all be-all solution to the world's problems, but a little more of it in certain kids lives definitely couldn't hurt.

Originally Posted by Far-L (Post 18087068)

Thanks for the compliment but I know like most everyone else I fall on the idiot side of things way more than the savant side. Can't help that...

I grew up with spankings; par for the course with parents of my generation. Just because they did it didn't make it right or society better - just like it didn't make it any better for people of the "Greatest Generation" which let's face it is just a literary fallacy and conceit. I don't care if it doesn't leave a physical mark. It leaves a psychological one. Undeniably it reinforces the idea that violence or the threat of it is the way to solve problems.

For the record though; using a death row inmate probably is not the greatest example... do you realize statistically how many of them were abused as children?

Originally Posted by glowlite (Post 18084262)

"snot nose crabby son"
What a pathetic Grandfather it would take to use those words.
Degrading your daughter and grandson all in one breath.

Originally Posted by Deej (Post 18087074)

All good points.

Perhaps what point im arguing is the wrong one... Ive been arguing the severity of the punishment... maybe i should be arguing the action.

I was a great kid. But sometimes I did some really bad things. Things that could have killed people. I deserved the "spanking" i got. Did I get it for talking back and saying no... of course not...



Tell me this to all the parents out there saying a good talking to is everything you need and not the "who is in charge" punishment...

Say your kid is throwing rocks into oncoming highway traffic or shooting the neighbors cat with a bbgun ( I didnt do this as a kid) or anything of that severity... does your kid not deserve physical punishment? They themselves inflicted potential serious harm.... is a "Youre a bad boy, go to the corner" a sufficient punishment?

To me... that deserves more than an abrasive pat let alone a stern talking to...

To me its not about fear and i never feared my parents after spanking me... I grew respect for authority and order.

Originally Posted by Far-L (Post 18087081)

I agree children need discipline, structure, no has to mean no, and there needs to be consequences for bad behavior. I just see more positive and constructive ways to achieve that without hitting a child.

For every child that learns "to be good" because they got spanked there are ten that learned how to take it, harbor a deep fear from it that evolved into a seething hatred, and manifested in all sorts of terrible behaviors.

Originally Posted by Far-L (Post 18087071)

You do realize that is pretty much the argument for fascism right?

Why do you think they called it the "Fatherland"?

Originally Posted by glowlite (Post 18084262)

"snot nose crabby son"
What a pathetic Grandfather it would take to use those words.
Degrading your daughter and grandson all in one breath.

Originally Posted by V_RocKs (Post 18087409)

Yes... and that is how my humor works...

Originally Posted by V_RocKs (Post 18085802)

Wow... Some great comments and suggestions here. Where were you all when my kids were two?

Originally Posted by Far-L (Post 18087081)

I agree children need discipline, structure, no has to mean no, and there needs to be consequences for bad behavior. I just see more positive and constructive ways to achieve that without hitting a child.

If an adult hit another adult the same way, only they were matched in size as a child is to an adult, everyone here would cry foul - unfair fight, bully, etc.

For every child that learns "to be good" because they got spanked there are ten that learned how to take it, harbor a deep fear from it that evolved into a seething hatred, and manifested in all sorts of terrible behaviors.

Originally Posted by Due (Post 18084158)

At this stage you actually already gave your daughter the control. She is doing things you ask her when you count to 2 because she knows you let her wait till you count to 2. I was doing the same until realized that I'm just giving them time to build up a conflict (got a 4 and a 6 year old). Now I typically give a timeout / say no tv / games / pool or whatever it is at the time I would normally say ONE or don't make me count.

Never turn it into a negotiation which "counting" really is.

Can't say if my way is the best way or not, it seems to work, I can't picture myself lay a hand of any of my kids. It teaches fear not respect :2 cents:

Originally Posted by cherrylula (Post 18085263)

My kid is about 1.5 and just started with her tantrums. It's going to be a rough next couple years. ugh. lol

Originally Posted by Jesus H Christ (Post 18085161)

...In short, I see parents often negotiating with their kids and just shake my head. Always talk to them like young adults and learn to master the word NO and kids (up to 10) are just sponges of you.