woj

50 ideas to take tubes down...

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gideongallery

did you even read the link provided.

if i buy a chair (property) i can rent it out to other people, i can take it apart and rebuild it.

copyright law adds extra restrictions that prevent all the stuff i can normally do with property.

Ergo it about limiting property rights not defending them.

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SmutHammer

they should just make all free porn ilegal. if you join a site with a credit card chances are your 18+ but everyone would rather try and distroy the porn world instead of fixing it.... nothing is going to change anytime soon, just do your best to deal with the way things are, everyone should just sue companies that steal content.

Barefootsies

I've been doing tube sites for years. Both for myself, but developing and flipping them. I also know, based on my own experience, people will still pay for what hits the spot. However, I am not naive enough to think those who are free loaders of porn, music, movies, video games, whatever are every going to pay for shit.

I worry about hitting the demographic that has money, and simply does not want to bother with all of that nonsense. Plus in niche, and fetish markets. Most prefer to support those producers/studios who provide what they like. Which also includes them sending ideas, scripts, suggestions and you film them. It is a different ball game.

That said, I do not worry about those who proudly declare, "I have not paid for music in ten years", or, "I downloaded Middle Men on some torrent"... .whatever. That is not my target market, so I simply do not worry about them. I police my content, do my DMCA's, and focus on buying customers. It is a more productive use of my time.

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Enough Said.

"Would you rather live like a king for a year or like a prince forever?"

Barefootsies

Agreed.

I can understand on new releases for 90 days or something costing more to help recoup the expense. But those old artifact porn DVD's with the jungle bush and trying to charge $18-29.00 for them make me laugh.

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Enough Said.

"Would you rather live like a king for a year or like a prince forever?"

OnanistsCash

Thats what your target traffic is becoming .... thats the point ... i insist .... Yesterday i would had paid for the scene i found on the major tube ....

I receive weekly mails from RK, BBO, Brazzers, Twistys ( Actually they don't send them that regularily, see, i'm not making this up, Shap can tell what i'm saying is true, they don't send emails to ex members that regularily, i could even put a screenshot of the mailings ) to joining back with special offers, why do you think i receive them?

Because i used to pay for those memberships ................................. Yesterday i was horny, found a scene from an actress similar to my ex-gf, i'm a perverted bastard and like touching myself thinking is her with another dude, when i was about to buy it thought: "Let me see if i can find it at xvideos", in 10 seconds i was watching it .........

Would i had paid if it was not there? surely, i wouldn't had even look in two or three tubes for just 5 bucks of a trial to see the scene, would had taken me more time, but i guess others might even take a look at a couple before buying .... But for me was quicker search it on a major tube than paying 3/5 trial bucks to watching the scene :P

So ... i was a paying customer who does not pay anymore .... I know plenty of guys like me .... off course there are people paying, if not there wouldn't be paysites, not if you say there are not people who used to pay not paying anymore, you are lieing as a simple fact that i and at least other 3 friends of mine don't pay anymore when we used to ( My other friends are not webmasters and have no clue about GFY, manwin, etc, they are just surfers who actually still visit the hun but off course finish their tour at major tubes ..... )

As a side note, about how the small niche sites work, off course you are right about the niche things and how they develop scripts, its even fun to see how members actually fund their productions ..... that makes it really interactive, thats great, but how much time do you think major niche targeted tubes will take to appear ;) And they would send DCMA, they would be taken down, and two days later appear again, FRESH content .... And with niche sites would be easier, as they don't have massive productions, so the same uploader would upload it again with another account, one time and another ....

And let me give you a simple example, i'm right now entering the youjizz which is recently mentioned for its sue from Private ( btw, all my respects for Private owner, hope he has the balls not to just settle and take the fucker down ), i'm sure i will find there at least one scene of each of the major networks which was released in the last week ( I will easily know it as i push them and i can easily remember their last week scenes ) :

youjizz.com : I found two parts of the most recent fuckteamfive update, the one that features diamond foxx and two other not that known pornstars, two parts of 5/6 minutes each, where i could see almost all action, off course, i'm talking only about LAST UPDATE OF SITE, i was amazed of seeing how many full length movies of bbo, brazzers, etc where there ..........

ok, honestly, i'm too tired to keep the search to make a point that is so clear, moreover with someone who as you just claimed are in bed with tubes so you better know this than no one ... you probably uploaded one of those infringement videos, anyway, tubes are here and are making surfers that used to pay not paying anymore, some will remain off course, the question is, would those one that remain be enough for companies afford to make HQ competitive content? ok, they will fall one after the other till only those that can afford it keep up, then, won't their members still get bored at the end? its no secret that not even major sites with regular 3 days updates can rebill more than 3 months average?

Keep defending tubes .... its your job after all and from what you live for what you said, but don't pretend we are all stupid and don't see what is happening and were we are going .... You off course would be benefited from that direction, now almost all sort of affiliates, small non-niche companies, Non tube site owners, content producers, etc will keep going down while you do better I honestly admire how people like you have the face to defend such things and not even feel guilty, sadly i'm a guilty guy with concience, if not, you have no idea how easy would be for me start spidering all tubes out there, build a custom flash player which would send fake UserAgent and verifications codes to even embed their movies without using their player, etc .....

I'm not familiar with Private owner attitude, i started doing this when online was already taking over offline porn, but hope he has the balls like flint has so he takes this like something personal and rapes the asshole of youjizz owner as its was he deserves ... Him and all the uploaders supporting the site ..... ( And yeah, from were i come from, i know a lot of very known warez/leecher guys .... then, i respected their work, now that i faced both sides of the game, i think they should be fucked up too .... )

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Barefootsies

I do not need to ask Shap about some stranger on the internet from a forum.

Right. You have made the choice to be a freeloader versus pay and support the websites/producers/content providers you love to jerk off to. I get it.


There are already many around. Nothing new there.

Yeah, I get the freeloader mentality you are trying to explain. You will keep uploading or downloading (whatever your preference) again and again until your details are handed over to some lawyer to sue you accordingly. You also will not pay for anything.

Thanks for the comedy. You admit to enjoying tubes, and not paying for shit. Then have the balls to insult those who provide it to you. "i'm a guilty guy with concience".. and yet you do not pay for what you use or like. I am sure you do not pay for your music or software either. If you can find it on the web for free, who cares if it's stealing or unlicensed. You are just as bad as the providers kid. You think you're not, but in the end you're a thief as well

Thanks for the laughs.

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Barefootsies

I do not need to ask Shap about some stranger on the internet from a forum.

Right. You have made the choice to be a freeloader versus pay and support the websites/producers/content providers you love to jerk off to. I get it.


There are already many around. Nothing new there.

Yeah, I get the freeloader mentality you are trying to explain. You will keep uploading again and again until your details are handed over to some lawyer to sue you accordingly. You also will not pay for anything.

Thanks for the comedy. You admit to enjoying tubes, and not paying for shit. Then have the balls to insult those who provide it to you. "i'm a guilty guy with concience".. and yet you do not pay for what you use or like. I am sure you do not pay for your music or software either. If you can find it on the web for free, who cares if it's stealing or unlicensed. You are just as bad as the providers kid. You think you're not, but in the end you're hands are just as dirty.

Thanks for the laughs.

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Enough Said.

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marlboroack

It's part of the business Mark. If i sex related tubes did not exist i would be devastated. I wouldn't start one tho don't get me wrong.. Unless someone hooked me up with some FREE Tube software? Is that wrong or what?

Barefootsies

That is what many BROgrams said around 12-24 months ago. Now I would bet almost every major program has a tube site or ten. Same as many hosts said they would not host them when they had first come on the scene in adult, and then did a flippy flop and said "it's part of the business" and changed their position.

Money talks.

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Enough Said.

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Paul Markham

When I can come into your work place and steal your work for my profit I will take seriously what you say. Until then you're a hypocrite.

If I create something with my own skills resources and money, be it a picture, clay model, computer program or building. I own it.

If I build a house with my own bought bricks, cement, and labor, I own it. You don't. You can't live in it, rent it out or take it from me without my permission.

I create pictures and videos with my own money, skills and equipment. So why do you think you have the right to take it from me?

Can I take what you create from you?

Copyright is the enforcement of property rights. Just like the law on theft is the enforcement on my rights to keep what I own.

Without enforcement of copyright laws you wouldn't have a computer to work on. Because who would bother to invent anything or write a program if the moment it's made someone can steal it and copy it over and over again?

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OnanistsCash

I have Paid version of windows, etc, and i listen to radio only, but its funny i use to buy the discs of the bands i like each time they go out, rip them into my machine in good quality and then just drop the CD away, as i do it only to support their work

About the rest of my comments you quoted, you took them out of context, i wouldn't expect nothing else from someone doing what you do and having not guilty about it, at the end, its what you do, try to legitimaze something its wrong .... So i won't even take the time to answer them back, keep it that way, who knows, maybe someday we may meet personally ( Yeap, i take things pretty personal, and you are hurting my work and i'm not one of those that just sit and watch how someone fucks me up ;P Besides that, if you had some sort of solid argument to do so, i'm pretty open minded, but no, you just fuck all us up and pretend not to, i usually make a party for myself with this type of guys when i have them infront of me )

Take care bro.

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Barefootsies

I'm not going to even bother.... Obvious troll is obvious.

Thanks chief. Will do. Keep fighting technology. It's worked so well for piss ants like yourself to this point.

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gideongallery

if you buy a chair from me i don't control how you can use that chair

if you want to rent it out to someone you can

if you want to break it apart and make something else with it you can

if you want to take it apart and then make copies of it you can

if you want to sell it to someone else you can

as the BUYER of the property you have those rights by default.

the monopoly power of copyright law, takes those property rights away from the buyer by giving the creator control over how his/her creation is used (save for fair use of course).


no it the exact opposite, copyright takes away normal property rights from the BUYER by giving the creator control over how the property is USED.

one word for you

linux

nuff said.

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Paul Markham

This is my problem, not with Tubes, they're just the next step in the inevitable decline of this industry. For most the decline will put them out in the cold. For a few it will leave them sitting at the top of a declining pile of money.

Any industry that starts out by giving it away for free to 100 in the pursuit of selling to 1. Is going down the wrong road. When it needs to be given free to 200 to sell to 1, the signs are as clear as daylight.

You're satisfying the need of 199 to sell to 1.

You Tube owners should look at how many uniques hit your Tube every day and relate that to sales. Not the numbers who click on a banner.

If it's, for instance, 1,000 to sell to 1. You're satisfying the need of 999 potential customers. Let's assume 90% can't buy. That's 99 sales your kicking out to get 1.

While we go down the same road. It will become 2,000 to sell to 1. Then 3,000 and the slide goes down, never up.

Legal or illegal isn't the issue. The issue is the lost sales.

No business gives away as much free product as the consumer ask for, in the hope of selling a month or 2 months supply of the product. Why buy a crate of beer, when bottles of beer are free?

Some here call it marketing, some even have the cheek to call it selling. And the really funny ones tell you BW is so cheap it doesn't matter.

It's never been so cheap to destroy your own job.

The saddest part of this industry is the lack of innovation, adaptation and realising a flawed business model doesn't work better the more you do it.

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Paul Markham

Besides me who has come up with any ideas that are remotely feasible?

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Barefootsies

Tubes are just a tool in the box chief. The business model has changed.

It's no longer about selling $29.95 memberships to 100 scene websites from 1998. It's about upsells, cross sales, traffic and eye balls. The content is just a 'value add' on the website. No longer the main attraction, or I should say, main purpose or revenue maker of the site.

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gideongallery

you call your idea of retaliating against there income stream because they hurt your income stream remotely feasible

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Agent 488

tv stations make no money because they don't sell memberships.

Paul Markham

Seriously is this how you think?

Content on a site is everything without it there's no surfers. What are you upselling them to if it's not a site with something to buy on? Without content on a Tube site, there's no traffic.

People go to porn on the Internet for content, they stay for content, they return for content and we sell content.

Tools in the box, to give away free porn.

Sadly this is the thinking of many. Thinking traffic comes and spend money to get up-sold, cross-sold and shunted around. No wonder the business is declining.

If it works for TV stations. It must work for us.

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Agent 488

porn is bigger than ever. they paysite model is dead though. until you get that you will just ramble on like a broken record.

Paul Markham

So if I steal from you and it hurts your income, to benefit my income that's OK?

So where is your site or what ever you do. I seem to have your permission to steal it and make money from it.

Actually pirates haven't hurt this business as much as the legal idiot who think the best way to sell porn, is to give it away.

Agent is still trying to work out why it works for TV stations, making millions. When he's working from his bedroom. Agent if you don't know why it's wrong for the porn industry you really should start thinking about your next career.

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brassmonkey

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Paul Markham

Porn is bigger than ever. Never before have so many consumed and so few bought.

Yes I'm a broken record, been telling people for years this would happen. When you prove to me you're making a decent living, I will assume you have a clue.

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DamianJ

Why are you too scared to post a pic of your mansion? Show us what 33 years at the top of your games buys you. Let us paupers aspire to your level of wealth...

WarChild

What Paul doesn't understand now and probably never will is that it's the customers that determine which way the market goes, not the vendor.

Don't believe me? Ask the music industry. They were at one time dead set against selling individual songs in digital format they wanted to sell entire albums. Napster came along and blew open the flood gates and the music industry quickly learned they had better hear what the customers are saying. Now we have itunes.

It's utter foolishness to think that some out of touch retired guy is going to come up with a plan and then dictate to the World how they will consume porn.

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Paul Markham

So the vendor Napster determined the market. By giving it away for free.

Actually to an extent I agree with you. The consumer demands short scenes at a very low price, how and when he wants it.

So why are we trying to sell him monthly memberships or PPV at a high price?

Following your line of thinking, should we be selling scenes for 50 cents and giving the customer the options of really choosing the scene and buying as and when he wants to?

Maybe selling him 10-20 scenes for $5?

That will go down a bomb with affiliates.

It seems we do dictate to the World how they buy porn and then sit here trying to figure out why more and more don't buy porn.

You and Agent make a fine pair when it comes to marketing.

Seriously. I'm stating the bloody obvious that if we're too survive as an industry we need to change radically. Agent thinks that something people sit and watch all night, has adverts from a very wide selection of industries. Is a good model for an industry selling a 20 minute jerk off and can't get non porn related industries to advertise on. Except maybe gambling and I don't see them breaking down doors to advertise on Pornhub.

WarChild states the obvious. Customers now they have the choice of selecting a 20 minute scene that fits their needs when and how they want is better than signing up for a months membership that gives a lot less choice. Maybe he's right and moving to a similar model as iTunes is the way forward. I started a thread saying so and got shot down for thinking we should adopt that idea.

It's utter foolishness to think that ANY out of touch WORKING guy is going to come up with a plan and then dictate to the World how they will consume porn. Changed it to make it more fitting.

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gideongallery

seriously your idea is to copy the business model from a previous case.

can't you come up with something new, something that is actually designed to work with the new marketplace.

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CaptainHowdy

Consider it done ...

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Barefootsies

As Walmart, among many other economists, have stated. This is the era of the PULL economy. Meaning, the customer actually has the power. They no longer accept the PUSH economy of the past, with minimal choice and input.

Feel free to do some research on this concept to educate your brain.

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Enough Said.

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WarChild

It's not even worth your time, just let it go.

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Paul Markham

In online porn, the distributor has dictated the market. By giving it away for free many customers have become free consumers.

There are no provable figures but from the vary beginning ratios showed 99% were consuming and 1% were buying. The customer only takes what is offered he can't "Create" the market on his own. If piracy hadn't of existed, iTunes would not of been created. The distribution of free created the need for music to change.

Walmart created a concept of cheap goods, which the customer responded to.

Customers respond to what distributors offer.

But you are side tracking the thread. The market has changed, the consumer is now offered free pre recorded average porn in a scene at a times many times as he feels like it.

So iTunes was the recording industry's response, Walmart's response to cheap over seas goods was their stores.

So what has the adult industry done?

It's stepped up the supply of free porn.

You're actually agreeing with me. The market has changed for the customer, he's become a free consumer. The problem is anyone who offers an alternative to giving away even more free porn is ridiculed.

How does online porn respond to the new market where the customer has more choice?

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DamianJ

I'm SO glad you've FINALLY stopped that lie about being retired.

Dirty Dane

No, you cant upload a chair to tubes. Try again with a better comparison.

Paul Markham

You missed the real mistake he made.

He can buy a chair and own it outright.

He could buy music and own it outright, just not for $10. For that he only buys a license to play it with certain things allowed and other things not allowed.

He thinks Elton John makes a DVD for him for $10.

Which shows how stupid he is.

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Paul Markham

Seriously GG you are not as bright as you think.

Elton John doesn't make an album so he can sell one and everyone can copy from that one.

Warner Bros don't make a film so someone can go into a cinema copy it and give it to millions for free.

And using your example of a chair. A chair manufacturer doesn't build a factory, employ people, design and perfect the chair and sell the chair to you.

So you can copy it and give it away for free or copy it and sell the copies.

They all do it for the mass market. So you can buy a ticket to see a movie for $10-$20 bucks and watch a movie that cost $20 million to make. Or buy a DVD for $10, that costs $100,000. Or buy a chair for $100 that costs $50,000 to create.

This is why I don't read your links and why the video I saw of the bike being copied is stupid.

A chair is property, music, film, programs, porn can be. But not for a fraction of what it costs to produce. For the price you pay, you buy the license to use, view or listen. Unless you steal it, then you get it for free and let others pay your contribution towards the manufacture.

Did you understand that?

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gideongallery

idiot that exactly the point

the movie doesn't exist as property therefore property rights don't apply

if property rights did exist content you WOULD have the same rights as a chair you bought

yes everything you said is a justification for allowing a business model NOT BASED ON PROPERTY RIGHTS

however nothing you said justify making up property rights for something that doesn't exist as anything but a service.

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gideongallery

do you even understand the law your talking about

you can't buy a song outright, when you buy the catalogue of a musician for example, your buying a exclusive "right" to a service (copying) not a property.

the outright ownership your talking about is really nothing more than another licience, the licience to licience.



that the point copyright and property rights are two completely different things

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TheDoc

GG, myself and you may go at it at times, but truly save yourself the time with Paul. Cognitive thought isn't a skill set Paul has. You will bash your head against the wall trying to get him to even slightly understand you, it really isn't worth it unless you're just going to rail on him for being an idiot.

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