heqdvd

the ROMANS killed jesus dude... not proud or anything but lets be correct

ane Einstein - shit man you'd better read up on him.

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Serge_Oprano

Serge,

If maybe...

- you didnt choose to kill Jesus instead of a criminal like Barrabas
************************************************** **


JESUS is a fictional charecter,
he never existed in real life.

There is no a single trustworthy historian out there who ever mentioned Jesus,
therefore your argument is impotent.

Serge_Oprano

- you didnt invent the Atomic Bomb
************************************

yeap, we did....and very proud of it,
as Colin says:
"Don't fuck with chosen people"

..but antisemites have nothing to fear,
there is a antisemite ghetto in high heaven where you all belong

Serge_Oprano

- you dont mass murder, torture childs and run concentration camps just after 50 years you suffered the same methods and you even claim for economic reparations while you do that!
***********************************************

Palestinian propoganda,
I livewd with Palestinians in student hostel and heard it all before you were born.

pure gille!

heqdvd

Serge, Jesus may be a componded and augmented figure but you really don't believe he never exisited at all... do you?

There are many Roman historians that documented him.

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Serge_Oprano

- William Shakespeare didnt wrote an universal character like Shylock in the Merchant of Venice

*************************************************

hmmm...Hitler was not a ficticious charecter and responcible for the lives of 58,000,000 CHRISTIANS...anbd still you fear Jews more.

there IS something special about my people
;-)))

Serge_Oprano

- you all were a bit more prettier
and thousands of more reasons...
*********************************

he is pretty and non jew..
I envy your beauty...

Hind

dont argue unless you have solid proof.

1. the Romans executed the law, due to their regent status in Galilea, Judea & Samaria
2. Poncio Pilatos put Jesus & Barrabas and the *mighty* jewish people gathered in a square around choose to kill the criminal? No, Jesus.

I was not refering to Einstein since he didnt invented the atomic bomb... if we want to be accurate John Dalton was the first man who developed the atomic theory in 1807 and he was english and certainly not a jew. But, i was reffering to Arthur Oppenheimer.

Serge_Oprano

many???

name one.

I read Iosif Flavius, roman historian who lived at that time in Judea..
no even mentioning of Jesus.

As for compounded figure-
maybe and most likely correct

iwantchixx

I'm amazed that threads like this aren't deleted. Especially considering it is a public expression of hatred towards another race. Hate crime?

Serge_Oprano

be thankful for that,
if they have chosen to kill the other guy,
you'd be a JEW or Moslem now and nobody would even remember Jesus' name.

be thankful, fuckin' ingrate, you'd be nothing without Jews.
;-))))

Serge_Oprano

this is USA,
everybody welcomed to express their views, we are not communist China.

I believe that common sense will ultimatelly prevail,
Baruh Hashem!

heqdvd

The Greco-Roman Sources
1) Tacitus
The first Roman historian to mention Christ is Tacitus, who wrote his last significant work, the Annals, around A.D. 115. In this treatise, Tacitus describes the great fire of Rome during the reign of Nero and the emperor's subsequent persecution of the Christians there. He states:

"Nero created scapegoats and subjected to the most refined tortures those whom the common people called 'Christians'....Their name comes from Christ, who, during the reign of Tiberius, had been executed by the procurator Pontius Pilate" (Annals 15:44).

At first glance, this is an impressive passage for the Christian apologist. But let's dig a little deeper. Where did Tacitus get his information about Jesus' execution? It is doubtful that he was quoting an official Roman document from the period because, as scholars are quick to point out, he mistakenly calls Pilate a procurator when he was actually a prefect.

Perhaps Tacitus received it from his close friend Pliny the Younger, who may well have shared the knowledge he had acquired from contact with Christians in Asia Minor. But even if this is the case, the most we can say is that Tacitus is simply repeating what Christians of his day were saying about their origins. There is not much basis here for concluding that he was presenting independent testimony about the historical figure of Jesus.

2) Suetonius

In his biography of the emperor Claudius, written around A.D. 120, Suetonius writes about the expulsion of the Jews from Rome in A.D. 49. He states: "Since the Jews were constantly causing disturbances at the instigation of Chrestus, he [Claudius] expelled them from Rome" (Claudius 25:4).

Chrestus was a popular misspelling of the Greek Christos (Christ). Some scholars believe that Suetonius may have used a source that understood "Chrestus" to be Jesus. But he obviously misunderstood the police records, thinking that "Chrestus" was the name of some Jewish slave who became a ringleader during the riots of A.D. 49. Suetonius' account makes for interesting reading. But, again, it is far from being an independent witness to the historical Jesus.

3) Pliny the Younger

Pliny the Younger was proconsul of Bythinia, in Asia Minor, between A.D. 111 and 113. Pliny wrote a letter to the Emperor Trajan asking for advice on how to deal with the rapid growth of the Christian community in his area. Among other things, he describes the Christian custom of holding weekly meetings to sing praises "to Christ as to a god" (Letter 10. 96).

This passage is significant, because it is the only non-Christian source that tells us that Christians treated Christ as a "god." But Pliny is merely describing an element of Christian worship. His comments say nothing about the historicity of Jesus.

4) Lucian

The Roman satirist Lucian of Samosata lived from A.D. 115-200. In The Passing of Perigrinus, Lucian mocks the Christian life, describing Christians as those who worship "that crucified sophist [Jesus] himself," and live "under his laws." Again, we learn only what some educated people from the second century may have heard about Jesus. Lucian is definitely not an independent source of historical knowledge concerning Jesus of Nazareth.

5) Josephus

Perhaps the most significant "witness" to the life of Jesus in ancient literature is in the writings of Joseph ben Matthias, better known as Flavius Josephus (named after his patrons, the Flavian emperors Vespasian, Titus and Domitian). Josephus lived from A.D. 37 to 100, and wrote two famous works: The Jewish War, which was initially drafted in Aramaic, and then translated into Greek five to ten years after the destruction of Jerusalem in A.D. 70. His second work, Jewish Antiquities, was completed more than a decade later. This work was much longer, and recounts Jewish history from creation to the Jewish revolt against Rome (A.D. 66-70).

Contrary to what many Christians may think, Josephus does not give us much information about Jesus. In his 28 volumes of Jewish history, there are only two passages that mention Jesus. And even these references are difficult to assess. The trouble is that Josephus' writings were preserved for posterity by Christians (the Jews disowned him as a traitor). The texts available to us today contain statements that were added later by Christian editors. This is clearly seen in the famous Testimonium Flavianum, "the testimony of Josephus," found in Antiquities 18:63-64. It reads as follows:

At that time there appeared Jesus, a wise man, if indeed someone should call him a man. For he was a doer of startling deeds, a teacher of people who receive the truth with pleasure. And he gained a following both among many Jews and among many of Greek origin. He was the Messiah. And when Pilate, because of an accusation made by the leading men among us, condemned him to the cross, those who had loved him previously did not cease to do so. For he appeared to them on the third day, living again, just as the divine prophets had spoken of these and countless other wondrous things about him. And up until this very day the tribe of Christians, named after him, has not died out.

Scholars of Josephus have been divided over the authenticity of this entire passage, although both sides acknowledge the obvious Christian additions (highlighted in italics above).

On one hand, some scholars argue for the genuineness of the passage (without the italicized parts). They stress that the language and grammar are typical of Josephus' style and language.

The other school of thought argues that the passage is bogus. They point to the clear Christian redaction. But they also emphasize that there are only three Greek manuscripts of Book 18 of The Antiquities ? the earliest dating only to the 11th century ? and the text of these is often in doubt.

The other well-known passage in Antiquities is the reference to "James, the brother of Jesus who was called the Christ" (Antiquities 20:200). Scholars generally agree that this is authentic Josephus. They do so for several reasons: First, this narrative is found in the major Greek manuscript tradition of Antiquities without variation. Second, Christian editors would not refer to James as "the brother of Jesus." Instead, they would use the reverential phrase, "the brother of the Lord" (see, for example, Paul's description of James in Galatians 1:19).

Third, the famous fourth-century church historian Eusebius also quotes this passage in his Ecclesiastical History (2.23.22). Interestingly, Eusebius does not quote the Testimonium Flavianum.

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Hind

Serge,

As you and I said, strong characters, ficticious or not, build reputations for millions. Hitler gave the nazis the reputation & the current status in the world that they deserve... and characters like Shylock & Ariel Sharon helped to build throughout the history the status & reputation the jews have, plain and simple.

Regarding your other replies... come on, there are whites who are really ugly man... so ugly that they must be shot! But they are, let say 40% of our population... you jew are all ugly! Don't blame me for that... perhaps if you are God's chosen people... God doesnt care about external beauty... so live with that.

heqdvd

Yeah but I've got communistist living next door to me in Harlem!

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Serge_Oprano

does Mr. Clinton bother you?
;-)))

ADL Colin

A trailer park in Boca?

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Serge_Oprano

heqdvd,.
take a look at the dates those historians lived...NONE of them was living at the times the alleged Jesus lived, it's all heresay
and NONE are witness testemonies

heqdvd

OK. But I thought you asked for rough contempories.

Again a compounded figure, but I have a feeling SOMEONE must have been there.

OK?

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Serge_Oprano

only in your PEE brain...the intelligent people know better.

heqdvd

VERY GOOD! I knew you'd do it!

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Serge_Oprano

it's your belief and the believf which doesn't bother me one bit.

I am only bothered by "interpretatioins" from idiots like Hind and his ilk

heqdvd

Is that where they make the 5-10 DVDs a week from Vivid?

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Serge_Oprano

Regarding your other replies... come on, there are whites who are really ugly man... so ugly that they must be shot! But they are, let say 40% of our population... you jew are all ugly! Don't blame me for that... perhaps if you are God's chosen people... God doesnt care about external beauty... so live with that.
************************************************** *

Hmmm....arguing with blind people about beauty is like teaching pigs sing...
;-)))

Joe Sixpack

Did you post all that in an attempt to prove that Jesus did in fact exist? I hope not. Because the whole thing argues for the exact opposite.

As much as I'd like to disagree with Serge on this issue, I can't. There is absolutely no evidence to support the existence of an historical Jesus Christ. In all probability, the Jesus story is mythical.

heqdvd

We should take about the role of Saul/Paul in shaping Christianity.

or simply refer to Nietsche's The Geneology of Morals...

AND ONE OF NIETSCHE'S LAST LETTERS SAID IN THE POSTSCRIPT:

"I am now rounding up anti-semities to shoot"

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Hind

Im disappointed... i thought you were really smart and educated and that you can reply with solid and logical answers... i guess i was wrong.

If you read my post again you are going to realize that im not defending the nazis at all... on the contrary, i said that they have the reputation & status they deserve, which is shit... so as the jews.

Be honest, you can agree with the accusations or reject them 100%, but you cant deny the fact that most of the world goes to the limit of hate the jews... the validity of the reasons should be discussed appart but a fact is a fact.

heqdvd

no, I discussed that above.

but nevertheless -

PASS THE FUCKIN' BONG OVER HERE.

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PerfectionGirls

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Joe Sixpack

hehehehe...

Now you are making sense...

Bong on!

Serge_Oprano

Hind,
I never argued with your statement that most of the world, due to ignorance,
hates Jews,
and most of the world hates America as well, so?

this si my response to all USA haters!

Hind

Im tired, im going out, will answer you later...

i forgot to mention that you also "invented" comunism haha

stocktrader23

That they do....

Serge_O

Just out of curiosity does the world hate America more or less since Bush took office?

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"I try to make a habit of bouncing my eyes up to the face of a beautiful woman, and often repeat “not mine” in my head or even verbally. She’s not mine. God has her set aside. She’s not mine. She’s His little girl, and she needs me to fight for her by keeping my eyes where they should be."

Serge_Oprano

you got me on that one,
no excuses from me!
;-)))

as far as I am concerned,
commies, who also happen to be antisemites,
the Russian kind at least,
belong to heavens NOW, right next door to antisemites
;-)))

Serge_Oprano

I don't know...I never surveyed the World.

As far as Bush is concerned,
he IS a POWER to recon with, pussy lip Clinton he isn't, and the world would rather go to hell than see USA in it's role as a world leader.

sorry, guys, but you have your destiny to fullfil,
USA has it's own.

One day, USA will no longer world power,
NOTHING stays forever in this world, and my only with is...
DO NOT REGRET YOUR ANTI AMERICANIZM, as the new leader can be NOT what you people envision...

the future will tell.