The .xxx panel is underway at The Phoenix Forum

[Gabriel]

I knew most of it, and not surprised by the rest. However I learn more and more about Mr. 12Clicks every day. Funny how he works so hard to make people think he is some big hot shot, millionaire, company owner, when in reality all he really owns is a ladder, hammer and some roofing nails.

Quoted for "troof"

;-)

[DBS.US]

but mom, it's not a .xxx site, it's a .com I didn't know there was going to be porn on it

[will76]

but mom, it's not a .xxx site, it's a .com I didn't know there was going to be porn on it

Then....


Mom calls congressman "Mr. Dickhead politician, why do you allow there to be porn on .com sites. Little Johnny just went to a .com website and saw girls getting gang banged. Why isn't all porn moved over to .xxx so I can block it and protect my kids from it!!!"

"Ma'am, I thought that is why they created .xxx to protect kids, I don't know why there is still porn on .com. I will talk to my fellow congressman and see what we can do about this. Will you vote for me again? "

Couple years later, on GFY after a republican president is in office and there is republican control the house and senate...


you see new posts: " Oh fuck, can you believe this new legislation they are trying to pass...."

The few people left making money from porn reply:

"adapt or die"

"links pulled"

(Lawley laughs his way all the way to the bank )

/ the end

[shade001]

Im guessing you dont know how he got his nickname in the business then either.

I know how he got his nick. That's not the issue. The issue is I don't give a fuck.

[will76]

I know how he got his nick. That's not the issue. The issue is I don't give a fuck.

Hey!! Welcome. So who's fake nick are you. 2006 and your 3rd post. Congrats is this 12Clicks incognito ?

[12clicks]

wow! the trolls all came out of the woodwork.
willy got a little liquid courage and made his typical insiteful posts and we even have fat gonzo troll thru, pretending to know how his betters started.
tell us, troll, where did I get my name?


I love these nobodies who pretend to have secret info. Should be interesting to see what it looked like from the outside.

[Barry-xlovecam]

Then.... Mom calls congressman "Mr. Dickhead politician, why do you allow ... ...Couple years later, on GFY after a republican president is in office and there is republican control the house and senate... ...you see new posts: " Oh fuck, can you believe this new legislation they are trying to pass...." / the end

That is a possible scenario and could it be stopped in the courts?

Since all the "targeted persons" would have "reasonable" access to the .xxx domain, that the statute's (law's) mandate would be "a legitimate interest of public safety," for the protection of "children (heard that one before?)", a restriction of "commercial speech" and not an overreach upon or preemption of "free speech" ...

This has been the 800 pound gorilla in the room with .xxx

What we have is a very poor defensible position right now. I do think that the cost and the moderation of the domain's content (IFFOR) makes .xxx very unattractive for a lot of people but also that is its hidden strength.

Better find some better hidden weaknesses to exploit in this .xxx scheme, and fast to preempt any further incursion or the real problems may start ? the "worst nightmare" comes-a-knocking ...

[12clicks]

That said, I think there are a lot of people in this industry that have something of value to impart. It really has little to do with their job titles or descriptions, or even their industry history, but rather their intelligence, and grasp of the broad view of the current state of the industry.

I agree that job titles are irrelevant but in general, a decade of history is a strong indicator of intelligence level.
Here's my take on the panel and the .xxx uproar.
first, the panel got off on the wrong foot because of the first couple of audience questions. Those of us with a potential (or real) business interest are far more interested in the legal stuff (trademark, how they set rules, etc) and the business stuff (auctioning of names, etc).
Instead, we sat thru a needless half hour about pricing (totally irrelevant as the market will drive the price), the protect children angle (equally irrelevant. who gives a fuck what their angle is. they worked it and won), and a couple other of irrelevant side bars.
Wasn't Colin's fault since you can't control who raises their hand but a lot of us were rolling our eyes and hoping we'd hear from Vaughn and Greg.

Bottom line in my opinion is that .xxx is way over hyped.
You'll NEVER be forced by the US government into using it. It's very doubtful that you'll be forced by the EU either.
If you have something of value, trademark it (you know, like real businesses do).
The likely hood of google weighting .xxx higher than .com for adult terms is, imo, very unlikely. Thats an issue if it were to come about.
Other than that, I see no real threat to .com holders.
I personally won't be a buyer of .xxx simply because I don't want to be.
I don't want to give up control of my warning page and don't want to be regulated by anything but the first amendment.
I don't see a value in .xxx because of the higher costs in basic price and the likely auction price of premier domains.
I also think you WILL see colleges and emerging markets (and others) blocking the domain. To me, from a business prospective, I'll pass.

I just don't see why people in our industry are applauding guys running around with pitchforks and shouting about shit that doesn't matter.
And as was said over and over amongst those of us with actual businesses, I (we) gotta hand it to these guys. They found a way to make money (potentially) and as a capitalist, how can I be against that?
Of course I'd have just stayed in the back ground and snapped up my millions and not put myself out there to answer any question that came at them.
I applaud them for that and also again, CCBill for being able to get them to speak.

[12clicks]

oh, the one REALLY interesting part was in identifying yourself as a pornographer and what you peddle as pornography especially as a US citizen via using .xxx domains. The two lawyers had different takes on it but I found THAT to be the most interesting topic.

[alias]

Thanks for the insight, nice to see a well thought out opinion on this issue from someone who was there.

[Connor]

That is a possible scenario and could it be stopped in the courts?

The point that I think is so very relevant when you talk about the courts -- and many people like to argue that any attempts to mandate .XXX would be defeated -- is simply this: at what cost, and who pays?

We know the attorneys make out like bandits. But someone has to pay the bills.

I once heard an attorney describe .XXX as "forced dues paying" to me. So option one is to roll the cost of lawsuits into .XXX domains themselves, and make the people who buy into .XXX pay the bill. There's justice in that really. But the problem is then the entity that most stands to benefit from .XXX is the one fighting mandates that would make them a ton of money? How would that make sense?

The second option would be for the FSC to fight; once again then the people who support the FSC, the people opposed to .XXX happening in the first place, now have to pick up the bill.

And then as attorney Jeffrey Douglas said at the panel... even if you are coming from the best position in the world and it seems impossible to lose, sometimes you lose anyway.

Sadly there's nothing that can be done about any of this now, unless there's some means to sue ICANN and end .XXX -- or at least delay its implementation. But even then... more $$$$$.

[Barry-xlovecam]

@ Connor: I only think that ICANN decisions like the creation of .xxx can only be appealed to ICANN directly. Technically they are an "international body (for lack of a better term)" governed by their own by-laws.

I think the intended purpose of ICANN being independent (sort of like the UN (an international body)) was to ensure that its decisions were not politically based ...

I think they have now entered a new dogma; that of content placement (or censorship (take your pick)). This is not like .gov, .net or .org . These were content neutral policies set.

sTLD is like a "club" so to speak. So, as long as .xxx remains a "club" that you can voluntarily choose to join there is no legal basis for contesting the recent decision.

So, what this NOW boils down to ? is do you want to pay the price of belonging?

I don't want to join as I see no real advantage to it and mainly, for at least the present time, some committee's interference with my business planning.

Like most of us, I did not want to become a "Franchise" and be subject to some other business' rules. So, the real decision is this a future McDonalds or a "turkey carry out fast food joint?" IMO this is a Turkey.

But getting back to the political issues ? there are many. These remain to be seen. It is hard to mount a defense against a possible or perhaps imaginary enemy. However, waiting to see if that enemy will appear is a dangerous game ? this is what we debte now ...

[Connor]

[INDENT]@ Connor: I only think that ICANN decisions like the creation of .xxx can only be appealed to ICANN directly. Technically they are an "international body (for lack of a better term)" governed by their own by-laws.

No, it is possible to sue them. In fact, I'm told they were under threat of lawsuit if .XXX was not approved. The issue isn't whether or not they CAN be sued, but if they SHOULD be sued. And to that, I'd have to defer to the attorneys.

In terms of them being governed by their own bylaws... I don't think they pay too much attention to their own rules anymore, otherwise .XXX would not have been approved. There needs to be a community support requirement satisfied, and I don't see how they can possibly claim that it was in fact satisfied. At least not in any way that would fail to induce laughter.

One nice thing about the lawsuit path would be discovery. Wouldn't it be fun to compel organizations to release all kinds of documents about who they're doing business with? And where their "support" comes from?

[DWB]

I don't think they've announced how to apply yet. But you and I both know that they've seen your posts. Now this is just a wild guess, but since you didn't help create the perception of support before this was approved, I'm guessing that your response letter from them would look something like this:

"Thank you for your interest in serving on the IFFOR council. Unfortunately... " [you can figure out the rest at this point]

Yea, my gut tells me they wouldn't let me in the ICANN parking lot, let alone put me on a panel.

Who is that? Nice chop on the face.

[Barry-xlovecam]

Seems ICANN is incorporated in California

http://www.icann.org/en/general/articles.htm

Well that is a start