The .xxx panel is underway at The Phoenix Forum

[LAJ]

I heard Mojo is the reason 12Clicks has made any amount of money online, Mojo is the brains, 12clicks is just the "front man". Hell, I heard Mojo even got Ronnie started with his own roofing gig.

Yup that's what I've heard. Man, I wonder if Serge skims these forums anymore. I know he'd have a comment or 10 about this.

[NETbilling]

Thanks for the nods, Brad, Conner, and many others. Moderating that session was probably the most challenging one in the 12 years I've been doing them.
I also have a video of the entire thing that I will post up as soon as I get back to boston. But wait! I can't get back to Boston for 2 more days as I am stranded in Phoenix waiting for Southwest to button up the "sun roofs" on ther 737-300 series that I am supposed to be on! LOL

Please send beer and chips. I am at the four points Sheraton waiting to be rebooked.

Colin

P.S. 12clicks and Conner. Please play nice. This sort of hammering is not real helpful to the dot-xxx damage control dialogue.

P.P.S. Love my one quote at the end if the XBiz article. Yes, I worked that session hard to keep it within civilized boundaries, but being a smart ass about taking a shit in times square was sort of classic "me", eh? Heehee

I sure wish I was able to see that panel. I can't wait to see it online. I am sure you did awesome Colin.

Mitch

[AndreaM]

I am always baffled by the way some threads degenerate into insult flinging - and yet I never see fists swinging at shows. I hope no one minds too terribly much if I bring this back on topic?

Lloyd and Tanya were kind enough to film the entire 2+ hours of this panel. It will be up soonish and I'll post the URL when it is so that everyone can watch for themselves and draw their own conclusions.

I can assure anyone questioning that there was indeed a last minute change in the moderation for the panel, as I got to watch some of the resulting whatthefuckery when that particular bit of news came down the pipe late Thursday evening. Colin was brilliant, as per usual, but in a very difficult and demanding role with this topic, and I think his well placed wit took the edge off of the tension in the room, which was palpable throughout.

Some things worth noting:

This was the last session of the forum, held on Saturday at 1pm, and there had to be well over 200 people in attendance.

It was scheduled for 1pm - 2:30pm and was held over until 3:15 by the near unanimous vote of the audience.

With the exception of one attorney, no one in the audience spoke up in favor .xxx.


My own opinion is that .xxx is a bad idea in general and a worse idea in the long run. There are just entirely too many things that we don't know and can't really get answered. Vaughn Liley was caught out on more than one occasion saying something that was disproved by facts readily available on the ICM website. I was surprised to find out that the $60 registration price attached to .xxx domain names is really the wholesale price, and that those names that are not trademarked, or cannot be trademarked but are still great names can potentially be auctioned off for millions of dollars.

This "sponsored" community tried to vote with it's voices and wasn't heard. The only option left is as Connor said - to vote with your wallet.

[Paul Markham]

I always thought it was going to pass and am really not too worried about it. I'm frustrated at the ignorance of the industry and how blind everyone seems to be, but not worried. I don't have plans to be in porn forever so if it ends in 10 years or tomorrow, I'm ok with that. Later would be better than sooner, but it wouldn't be the end of the world for me if I woke up tomorrow and the internet was gone.

The ignorance of this side of the industry has been proved over and over again.

I think it really hit me when Acacia tried the patent squeeze and our response to it. Since then our response to all threats has been to only wail. Tubes, Piracy, 2257 and now .xxx.

Do nothing and cry.

[DWB]

Where is this video?

[SexKey Scott]

It was exactly as Conner and 12Clicks categorized it. Heated and very informative would be an understatement, there was no "bromance" in the room during or afterward. Colin Rowntree of Wasteland did a fucking heroic job of moderating what I saw as the most difficult, challenging seminar of my 11 years in the business. If anyone remembers what Acacia was like, this was that times 100 in every light.

Brad

Well said Brad. Colin was great, the seminar was very very informative and the panel did a good job expressing thoughts, questions and views on the subject.

[Connor]

I am always baffled by the way some threads degenerate into insult flinging - and yet I never see fists swinging at shows. I hope no one minds too terribly much if I bring this back on topic?

Ha, you guys worry too much... it's just 12clicks, and pissing matches are what he does for a living. You can either fire back, or ignore him. Depending on my mood, I take turns. At he end of the day, the sparring is fun -- nobody should read any real anger on my side though, I just like picking on the dude. Plus... it is GFY after all, there's kind of a culture here. ;)

[Chris]

Ummmmm...... Ron...... Used me? LOL
I'll let that one go.

It was a rather odd timeline on this one:

1. Originally, I was slated as moderator, and Diane Duke was on the panel with Ron at CCBill, Jeffrey Douglas from FSC, and Allison Vivas, I was told that ICM (dot xxx) did not want to be on it.

2. Then, they found out Tom Hymes was coming and I offered to defer to his experience and skill as the moderator, and I would now be a panalist.CCBill said okay.

3. THEN, on the first day of the show, ICM decided they wanted to be on it, and to add Chris from Wildline to it. But, also a request to have me moderate it, take Diane off of it, and have Tom be "just a speaker" as they felt he was too biased to moderate. (like I am a Berger choice? The guy that gave testimony at ICANN in San Fran two weeks ago? Yeah. I have the skills to be neutral as a moderator, but to stick Tom on the panel and release him from any neutrality requirements, and stick Diane in the audience with a laptop to check facts and access to a microphone? May have been an odd strategy.

So, anyway, that' how it went down. Gary at CCBill handled this like a real pro and it reall was a great session that took 6 months off od my life moderating!

Colin

When will you be heading to time square to take your shit?

You did a great job

[Chris]

Key points i found from this topic

1) WHOLESALE price of the domains are $60

2) You can "opt-out" and protect your domain from anyone else getting it by paying $100 .. and if you want it back at some point .. you cant. its gone forever.

3) if you dont pay the $100 opt out and someone else gets your trademark everyones suggestion was well .. its your trademark .. take legal action and get it back .. not everyone has the money to do that

4)"automated monitoring" - this was brought up using the term Spidering - ICM said that they will not spider our sites private areas (ie : members area ) but when challenged from the audience with direct reading from their own bylaws it sates that they will have "automated monitoring" of your whole site .. so icm had no clue what he was talking about and doesnt understanding spidering is automated monitoring

5) icm told us on the panel that they can not overrule the i4 (i could have this backwards ) rulings in regards to regulations with .xxx domains ... and again once read from their laws from the audience he was proven wrong and he had .. nothing to say.

6) they only have two regulations in place so far .. they have until the end of this month to get the rest of them in place that we have to live with

7) all domains by default will have a warning page that THEY create before anyone can go to the .xxx domain name

it was so hard to sit and listen to this and frustrating ... i wish it went longer ;/

[BlackCrayon]

Key points i found from this topic

1) WHOLESALE price of the domains are $60

2) You can "opt-out" and protect your domain from anyone else getting it by paying $100 .. and if you want it back at some point .. you cant. its gone forever.

3) if you dont pay the $100 opt out and someone else gets your trademark everyones suggestion was well .. its your trademark .. take legal action and get it back .. not everyone has the money to do that

4)"automated monitoring" - this was brought up using the term Spidering - ICM said that they will not spider our sites private areas (ie : members area ) but when challenged from the audience with direct reading from their own bylaws it sates that they will have "automated monitoring" of your whole site .. so icm had no clue what he was talking about and doesnt understanding spidering is automated monitoring

5) icm told us on the panel that they can not overrule the i4 (i could have this backwards ) rulings in regards to regulations with .xxx domains ... and again once read from their laws from the audience he was proven wrong and he had .. nothing to say.

6) they only have two regulations in place so far .. they have until the end of this month to get the rest of them in place that we have to live with

7) all domains by default will have a warning page that THEY create before anyone can go to the .xxx domain name

it was so hard to sit and listen to this and frustrating ... i wish it went longer ;/

wow, so they have the power to 'control' content AND have *their* warning pages as the entry for every single domain...that is huge. how much you want to be they will be making money/have outside links on them? damn..talk about taking it up the ass. it just keeps looking worse and worse for xxx...why someone would support them is beyond me. i can only wonder what other horribly stupid 'regulations' they will put in place that will continue to alienate their customer base.

[Chris]

wow, so they have the power to 'control' content AND have *their* warning pages as the entry for every single domain...that is huge. how much you want to be they will be making money/have outside links on them? damn..talk about taking it up the ass. it just keeps looking worse and worse for xxx...why someone would support them is beyond me. i can only wonder what other horribly stupid 'regulations' they will put in place that will continue to alienate their customer base.

Honestly i doubt they are creating the rules to fuck us or make money off of it - i think it is just generic rules that they have in place to cover their ass

i dont think they will be making any money off the warning page and with the spidering Vaungh really didnt even have a clue about it and denied it was even real until it was presented to him and when asked if he had a comment about it he said " no "

but to his credit - at the end he did say he was going to get clarification in regards to the terms used

He asked that he wishes we could give them a chance to prove them self - now im one of those guys that really likes to give everyone a chance and trust them so i may be shooting my self in the foot ..but nothing we can do now .. xxx is here and it isnt going to be un-done no matter how much we bitch
so all we can do is just see what happens and see if they stick to their word

[Connor]

6) they only have two regulations in place so far .. they have until the end of this month to get the rest of them in place that we have to live with

This is key... I don't think anything that they said is beyond being changed at this point. Even the prices. They can change pretty much anything. And even after the contract is signed, IFFOR can STILL add new rules for domain holders at just about any time, right away or years later. And yes, even if IFFOR tries to do something we LIKE, ICM Registry can veto it, as was proven during the seminar.

But in terms of "we have to live with" part... again, we don't HAVE to live with it if we don't buy these domains. Unless of course we are somehow compelled to buy them, in which case one of the nightmare scenarios can to be.

[12clicks]

I am always baffled by the way some threads degenerate into insult flinging - and yet I never see fists swinging at shows.

Andrea,
Insults from the unaccomplished aren't something to take seriously.
They chirp quite a bit but at the end of the day, one of us has owned and run successful programs for over 12yrs and one of us talks about it.
In this environment you really need to be careful where you get your info from.
The guy doing it or the guy who talks about others doing it.

[BlackCrayon]

Honestly i doubt they are creating the rules to fuck us or make money off of it - i think it is just generic rules that they have in place to cover their ass

i dont think they will be making any money off the warning page and with the spidering Vaungh really didnt even have a clue about it and denied it was even real until it was presented to him and when asked if he had a comment about it he said " no "

but to his credit - at the end he did say he was going to get clarification in regards to the terms used

He asked that he wishes we could give them a chance to prove them self - now im one of those guys that really likes to give everyone a chance and trust them so i may be shooting my self in the foot ..but nothing we can do now .. xxx is here and it isnt going to be un-done no matter how much we bitch
so all we can do is just see what happens and see if they stick to their word

Well I see .xxx as an attempt to take food out of our mouths and put it into theirs. There is absolutely no need for it, my .com's work perfectly so why would anyone need .xxx? If anything .xxx works for and is catering to those want porn blocked. I can't see myself giving them a chance, they aren't working for my or anyone else's best interest in adult at all. All it takes is one line of code to run *anything* on the entry page of every single .xxx domain in existence (hopefully it won't be many..)

[Connor]

He asked that he wishes we could give them a chance to prove them self - now im one of those guys that really likes to give everyone a chance and trust them so i may be shooting my self in the foot ..but nothing we can do now .. xxx is here and it isnt going to be un-done no matter how much we bitch
so all we can do is just see what happens and see if they stick to their word

Here's the problem with that though... I think that they HAVE in fact shown a lot already in the many years they have been trying to get this sTLD passed. I'm not going to list all the offenses here, although I'd be happy to speak with you offline if you want. So them saying "give us a chance" to me would be like Charlie Sheen saying "give me a chance with your daughter, a hotel room and a pound of cocaine, I promise not to do anything wacky." There's a history built already.

One of the things that will be interesting to watch though, which I think will speak a lot louder than poor Vaughn could (and it was hard NOT to feel sorry for him, he took such a pounding), will be who ends up on the IFFOR board. I can't imagine those seats will go to anyone BUT people who helped push .XXX through.