Are you fucking kidding me?
If so, kudos to you, fine comedian!
If not, WTF? Who runs GFY? Eric? Can we ban this fool FINALLY? He didn't break any rules - he's just got an IQ below 30, so not fit to post here with the rest of the humans.

That you forgot to adapt to the evolving market?

Seriously, blaming market conditions is one of the worst things you could do as a business owner. To a point it's fine, but you're crossing the line.

don't make fun of format, fucks
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Agent 488 View Post
ReggieDurango enough with the thread jacks. you have been warned as per gfy rule 13 subsection 4.

Wait, wait just a minute, there IS NO GFY RULE 13 SUBSECTION 4!?! !!! Agent 488, you've been clowning me the WHOLE time?!? HAHAHAHAHA :1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

Fellow digital-thesbian? friend? ...brother?


Doubt it, you're still a dick!!!

There's a thread running that brings up the point that GOOGLE excludes pirate results from its mainstream movie/film searches. https://gfy.com/showthread.php?t=1014681

That's because Hollywood is organized and they made GOOGLE an offer they could not refuse.

Either adult is NOT organized and that's why GOOGLE results for porn movies/films/sites are consistently pirate sites now.

Or, the GOOGLE search results are an engine of "policy" designed to destroy the adult business by flooding the market.

the person who started that thread is confused on how google works and ranks. thete is no such thing going on.

Stop thread-jacking Agent 488

Another one who can't see the point.

So here it is.

The cost of promoting sites was far far too high. The cost of filling the sites (what the customer paid for) was far far too low.

The consequences of that was sites were full of crap to poor content. Some shot by shooters whose content in the glory days, not today, wouldn't sell 10 times @ $50 a scene non exclusive. Shooters who didn't have a snow balls chance in hell of selling a set to a magazine non exclusive for $1,000. Let alone selling it over ad over again and making 3 times that.

Then there were people who thought all it needed was a camera and naked people to shoot porn. Maybe it does, but not GOOD porn.

This meant the entry level to open a site was about the lowest thing in the business. Even DVTimes manages it. So a saturation of sites all competing for the same customers and the only way to get them was to give affiliates every tool in the box.

Which meant 10,000s of affiliates. From Robbie making a sign up every second :1orglaugh to DVTimes. Again all competing for the same customers.

And the only way most knew how to compete was to load the site Internet with more free content. And load their sites with more crap content.

So in the end it was too many people chasing too few customers who were getting fewer and fewer.

Then Tubes hit the game and the idea of giving away free content to get a sign up per 1,000 surfers came to fruition. And people blame the fact that they have user uploaded content and call it illegal. Well that's a red herring. The truth is even if by some fluke they had to remove all unlicensed content, PornHub and a small number of porn Tubes would still be where they are today. BECAUSE the cost of content is so low they can afford to buy enough to keep their traffic.

And their traffic prefers free Tubes to paysites, for more reasons than the free part. If you can't sell porn for $1 a day, or lower, something is wrong. Could it possible be your sites aren't worth $1 a day and you haven't evolved and adapted?

Basically the online porn industry lowered the bar so low it saturated itself and not with customers. It's saturated with suppliers.

Funny post. I've adapted to the changing markets far more than anyone here.

Started selling photos via mail order.
Then sold sets to magazines and via brokers, which we still do.
Then sold videos mail order.
Then sold videos to large video companies, Met Homegrown long long ago, didn't do a deal as we couldn't agree on price.
Then went to full time magazine shooter and selling HC to video distributors.
Then sold via brokers on the Internet, like Scarlett.
Then opened a content store.
Then opened another one to cover a different market.
Then sold to mobile phone companies.
Then opened a paysite and then another one full of content I shot in the 80s and 90s.

Now adapted to what I expect to be my last move. Sitting back and sad that this industry is where it is today, it's helplessness in the face of a threat lack on innovation and adaptation.

Adaptation Adult Internet style = Keep up with the new trends in giving away free porn. As cameras improve by the latest one.

Otherwise what does adaptation online mean?


:1orglaugh :1orglaugh :1orglaugh :1orglaugh

Its making porn more viewed than it ever was. Just less profitable. Don't forget Traffic is King. :1orglaugh

Either Fabian has changed his mind or he's on holiday. He's been very absent for a few days.

sooner or later you should probably realize that if no one agrees with you then maybe you are the one that's wrong. as Robbie pointed out, you are an expert in ONE field of this industry. that's it!

i am not an expert (or even a novice) in content production but i can whip your ass in development and marketing. stick to what you know. on the other stuff, stfu.

ps. post my site copy again. it was great for sales.

pss. hope all is well in cz.

I just love how now Paul is so tangled up in his own trolling all he can do is repeat the incorrect things he has said, that people have proven to be incorrect, in bold.

I KNOW YOU HAVE SHOWN ME TO BE TOTALLY WRONG, I AM IGNORING YOUR POINT AND REPEATING MYSELF, BUT IN BOLD.

Genius debating.

Maybe he'll put people on ignore too, and copy the Robbie style of discussion.

Robbie "Point"
Someone "Counterpoint"
Robbie "FUCK YOU YOU FUCKING RETARD YOU'RE ON IGNORE"

Awesome.

No one agrees because they all went down the same road. Getting them to admit it isn't working today is a long shot. Even when it obviously isn't.

The number of customers isn't infinite. Especially when the main way of billing them is via credit cards. So the more people dipping into the trough of customers the less there is to share.

Once Tubes hit the market it was again obvious traffic wasn't king, sign ups were and then content because traffic will go to where the most content is and the best selection of it is. To achieve that in the world post Tubes the adult Internet has to completely re-think it's strategy. Yet it hasn't it keeps going down the same route.

So getting people to admit it isn't working is hopeless. They would rather use red herrings like illegal and stolen. When it's painfully obvious THE ONLY REASON TUBES EXIST AND TAKE THE TRAFFIC is because customers prefer them and the cost of BW makes it affordable.

My fields of expertise are Fashion Design, Selling, porn and BUSINESS. As I've been self employed for 22 years and run a business as a sideline for 33 years. This is without the years I had a market stall and was self employed. That was way back.

There are many better porn shooters than me, but they lacked the skills to run a business and didn't make the money I made.

Your expertise in marketing is telling newbies it's easy to open a paysite and once they do it, they will make money. :disgust

Actually debate what I said and don't just come up with empty statements. Tell me why it's still working. Why making opening a paysite and making money is easy. Why making the entry level to opening a paysite is the best route. Why making it easy to be an affiliate is the best route. Why throwing 100,000s of images and minutes at surfers for free is good marketing. For the business not for the few.

True. It's growing massively everyday.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_2cS_7n7Xsf...growth2007.png

While today there may be a finite number of customers available there will always be new ones coming to the internet or coming of age where they are able purchase porn. It's the same as adult models. Today there are only a finite number of models doing porn but there will always be more coming of age.

Now for a few questions.

You seem to point the finger at everyone else as screwing up. Do you consider yourself as one that made the same mistakes?

With YOUR paysite did you get to the point where you were GIVING your members daily updates?

Did you do the FREE three day trial membership deal GIVING your paysite members a FREE look at your content?

Did you GIVE at least a 50-50 split to your affiliates and GIVE too much content to them to promote with?

How can you tell everyone that they have the same old content that's been done over and over creating a saturated market and diss photographers for shooting exclusive when YOUR business is selling the SAME photo and video packages OVER and OVER?

If money is the measurement you use to determine success or failure, how can you sit here and tell people like Robbie and Fabian they are doing it wrong when they have made and CONTINUE to make far more money than you?

Looking forward to your answers :)

:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

No, I see the point. My point though is, you're only measure of success seems to be the QUALITY of porn produced, and that's it. You don't seem to think outside of that, which is a bad way to go about things, especially in an online world that drastically changes almost every year. That, and you're a producer, so you see porn films very differently than some guy jerking off to his computer.

Maybe you can make good coin without the highest quality porn that can be shot. Who would have thought...

That's what I don't get.

A few posts above he goes on about his vast business experience but he doesn't seem to grasp the fact that the most important factor in running a business is that you turn a profit. You don't need the very best content paid for at the highest price to be profitable. You can buy or create some average content and still turn a profit.

You can buy cheap content and spend a lot of money selling it but as long as you turn a profit you're successful. It's about what's in your budget and how you spread and spend it accordingly.

I've read through this entire thread and it's apparent to me that the root of his rantings is based on two things. The fact that two very unfortunate things happened that forced him into retirement which would be hard for anyone to face and deal with. The fact that in his prime his work commanded top dollar but has been significantly devalued today because of the internet.

Two things that completely changed his familiar and comfortable life. It's more than enough to make one bitter or bat shit crazy and I've found myself in the same position but under different circumstances. I liked reading this thread but now it's just painful to hear him go on and on not knowing where his place is. I hope he finds it. I'm still looking for mine :)

the only way to debate you is to use your words because that's the only words you read.

again putting words in my mouth. i tell my customers that it is easy to open a paysite using PornCMS. i never tell them it is easy to make money. fucking quote me you old has-been.

i tell my customers that the real work is AFTER you open the paysite. i have many current customers making a profit. i am sorry your piece of shit site with decade old content is not making $10k+ a month. maybe you should hire Damian and start making a living instead of telling everybody how smart you are. the only thing that matters at the end of the day is if you survive. you will be a ghost in 2 years. i will be here for another 20. so fuck you.

tell me i'm wrong. its expected.

Good luck selling porn to 18 year olds. LOL

Not with saturating my main markets. If we found a top girl we shot her 10 times max. So the 10 sets were great sellers. Shooting the same girl 20 times wouldn't necessarily make twice the money. Like doubling the number of DVDs on a shelf or porn sites or affiliates. Unless it's in a market/niche that's starved of dvds, sites or affiliates.

We started out with that and then went to rotating content. The magazines were our bread and butter and when the demand of them tailed off we slowed down shooting. We do have 2,500 + sets and 1,000 + videos

No we do better than that. We allow them to see what they're buying before they enter any info in. http://www.paulmarkhamteens.com/members_tour/index.php Surfers are educated today and know a lot of 3 days trials or just a con, free or paid. A LOT of our income comes from people signing up for just 3 days over and over and over again.

Yes, guilty as charged. Otherwise I wouldn't have any affiliates as it was the route we all HAd to go down. Because that's the way everyone else did it.

Because we made a lot more money than they did. Either they're bad at marketing, business or shooting. Or like working for a smaller living.

Because as a shooter I made more than any other shooter only here. By selling my content over and over and over again. I have no real knowledge of what Robbie makes. But know when I see something that raise my eyebrows. A sign up every second as an affilite would make him the richest man on porn by now. He would of been earning $54,000 a hour @ 60 x 60 x $15 = $54,000

$1,296,000 a day.

$473,040,000 a year.

Even at 1 a minute he would of been on close to $8 million a year. I would say probably a lot lower than he says. Unless he's sitting on a beach in the Bahamas posting for the fun of it. No he's still having to work hard with a site of CM fucking people.

As for Fabian, I have no idea of what he earns. And that's one of the problems with Manwin. It's shrouded in mystery.

All I do know is Lensman sold his entire business, during the good years, for $9 million. Not a great deal of money in the porn business and nothing like a great deal of money in the real business world. And everyone here envied him. Like he had won the lottery.

It was a nice figure to be sure, but not a really big sum like many here think.

Today, which is what pays the bills. No one would buy it for 1/10 of that.

I always question whether I would of been better off opening a paysite earlier and throwing more resources at it. I always come up with the same questions.

What effect would it have on our current sources of income?
Did I know enough about online paysites and affiliates?
Would we fail like I saw so many fail?

Do you remember all the sites that didn't make it or scraped a living? I do, I met some of them at shows. It's not as easy as plsureking makes out. I wasn't some green newbie thinking porn was an easy game.

It was a gamble and we took it in about 2005 and it's done all right, but nothing like the content stores or sales to magazines.

You missed my point.

It was easy to get some average content and then throw a lot of traffic at it.

IT ISN'T TODAY. THE GAME HAS CHANGED.

Adapt to 2011. Average content is free on loads of Tubes. Average content means low retention. Average content means fewer customers returning. Average content means the surfer looking to buy KNOWS it's average and everywhere, so lees people clicking on a link or type in. Average content means your site is one of 100s if not 1,000s.

All this means average content needs a lot of very expensive and good marketing to achieve decent results.

You've obviously not read my threads and posts for the last 10 years. My message has been constant. Got nothing to do with being retired and no longer able to earn what we earned in 2005/6 my best years ever in business. Along with a lot of others. :thumbsup

Eva's accident and my cancer didn't force us into retirement. The demise of most magazines, the shit money paid for content AND the fact we made enough money to be ABLE to retire in comfort made the decision for us. You can keep working away, I'm off to watch TV.

You should tell them a bit clearer then.

$10,000 a month :1orglaugh :1orglaugh :1orglaugh

Seriously you clown. That's kind of the level of this business. Someone is boasting he has some clients who barely make 6 figures a year. You condemn yourself if you think %120k is a lot of money.

We had days we made that money and not the odd day either. Today we're not. But we still make enough to be able to laugh at you. Keep working on the newbies.

I may close everything down in 2 years. I've had clowns like you telling me that for the last 10 years. You will be here because you HAVE to. I'm here because I WANT to.

Or do you think this is great marketing? :1orglaugh :1orglaugh :1orglaugh

As for Damian.

http://www.internetworldstats.com/stats.htm

This clown of a marketer is clueless.

Paul why are you trying to screw with me? I never said I made a sale every second. I never said I made a sale every minute.

I said we had a running joke that everytime I blinked my eyes I was making money. It was a joke Paul. A company joke. "Hey I just blinked my eyes and made a dollar!"

I have done nothing but pay you the respect you deserve for your craft...and yet you try to belittle me in post after post by misquoting me and ridiculing me. I DO work hard. I ALWAYS have worked hard. I LOVE working hard. I can barely stand to take a vacation and must have a laptop with me to work while on "vacation" because I love what I do.

I never plan on "retiring" ever. I have been in the entertainment business since I was 8 years old (1969) playing guitar around the country. And whether it was playing in a band around the world as an adult, working in a male strip show, working professional wrestling shows, choreographing and putting together shows for female feature dancing, selling porn, or creating porn...I LOVE being in the entertainment business and have found that the same basic premise works for all of it.

I'm glad you were able to retire and are happy with that. We are different personality types. That's all.

As far as how much money I made as an affiliate...I have posted my stats many times on here. At my height as an affiliate in 2007 I was making an average of $90,000 a month on my TGP's.

Now in 2011 with the pirate sites at full strength...my income as an affiliate averages around $25,000 a month. A HUGE drop. I can't force people to buy memberships when they have left my freesites in droves to see EVERYTHING for free on Pornhub.

So I keep them running because...well, they still make 25 grand a month.

CM's paysite is my new money machine. And it allows me to wait out this entire mess until new copyright laws come into effect.

So a market growing 448% is, er, bad?

I have no idea why posting a link to a page that confirms my earlier post makes me clownesque though? Do explain your genius for the dim-witted.

Or do you jus' be trollin? ;) ;) ;)

PS Great work being so rude to Robbie. His buttons are easier to push than yours! Should carry the thread on for a while. I suggest you get Will or Gideon involved next week to continue your massively brilliant spam.

It's hard to believe after reading the following quotes which you made previously in this thread that you retired ONLY because you weren't getting paid what you felt was just. Now ask yourself, were you ready and willing to retire in the days BEFORE your major setbacks or after them when you didn't have a choice.

you are so irrelevant. so someone that pays $45 a month for their website plus some content is a clown for making over $9k in profit?

man you make my points for me.

lol also funny - everybody in this thread that disagrees with grandpa markham is a clown. keep calling us clowns. you'll be dead soon.

So where do we get the traffic today then?

we all need to chip in for a wolf howling at the moon puzzle for the old man before he has a stroke and is unable to grace us with his mad shot framing skills.

Sorry it was every couple of seconds. I got that wrong.

This is what I read Robbie, sorry if I mistook you saw for you believed.

I thought it was you saw it on your stats, not you believed it was happening.

You don't think it was a migration.

I know it was. Because I was talking to the other sides of the industry ho saw the migration. IN THE ACTUAL FIGURES. But I guess you thinking it makes it right.

So here's the explanation. Go back and look at the core markets. US, Canada, Europe to get a better picture of the increase that matters. Some of the regions with massive increase are hard to bill.

Then think of the size of the adult online industry in 2000. Was it 1/3 of what it is today. Were there a lot fewer Sites, Affiliates and sponsors then?

Now factor in the massive amount of traffic going to Tubes and you can see there are too many people trying to feed out of a decreasing trough.

You claim to be in marketing and that flew over your head. People who can't buy, don't want to buy and won't buy are a very small market. The core of our income comes from a small sector of that increase.

Try reading a book on Demographics if you want to be in marketing.

During our setbacks 2 of our major clients stopped buying. Both magazine clients. So we stopped producing.

Now it's only $9k profit a month. :1orglaugh :1orglaugh

Can you imagine the server they get for $45 a month and it looking after 450 members a month and all the free traffic. And how much did they spend on content?

Surfers would never look for porn if they didn't have 10,000s of people giving it away for free. :1orglaugh :1orglaugh

Traffic isn't king. Sign ups are, getting traffic is the easy part. Getting it to your site is the hard part. Why?

Because 100,000 other people are trying to do the same. Take out 90,000 of them and the number of surfers remains the same. (My figures are to show the point.)

The business is saturated with people scraping a living.

********************************************

Most of you make a living by being affiliates. Most of you find it tough because there's too much free stuff, too much crap, too little quality and sign ups/retention sucks.

My point is by making the inside of a site better the sign ups/retention will increase. The better it is, has a direct effect on earnings.

It's not rocket science.

While the vast number of people in this business are complaining of falling sales. I've come up with a possible solution for those who can afford it. Won't work for ever but it might work for a few for a while. And keep them making money, might even increase their earnings. No one wishes to discuss or even debate it. They just flame and scream.

Why won't upping the quality of the product mean it won't make more sales? Please answer this.

Because nobody believes tripling their production budget for the same amount of sets is going to increase their sales by 300%+

One would think a better product would sell better than one of lesser quality.

However, it's about business so the question is would spending the extra money for better content result in enough sales to offset the added operating costs and still continue with a desired profit margin.

What you need to understand is very few if any of the people here think the reason their sales have declined is because their content sucks.

( What he wrote above me sounds good too )

If his clients can make $9k profit a month with a cheap CMS plus some content which I assume wasn't a fortune.

Can you imagine how much we make with 2 paysites, one 90% exclusive and unique, the other with 3,000 full videos or sets, plus 2 content stores. Make a month.

$9k would be a weeks earnings. :1orglaugh :1orglaugh :1orglaugh

man you make my points for me.

Just so we can keep everything in perspective, if you claim to make about $30K a month with just 2 paysites, one 90% exclusive and unique, the other with 3,000 full videos or sets, plus 2 content stores wouldn't that be about a half days earnings for Manwin with it's network of sites :1orglaugh :1orglaugh :1orglaugh

I never disagreed with you one bit.

Matter of fact it is ONE of the tools in my arsenal of success: Giving our members EXACTLY what they want in a porn scene with a whore with giant tits. Doing all the things right that I feel others do wrong.

Which is why I am going to up my game on the technical side of the shoot. I think you are 100% right on that.

In my case, I'm only debating you on how to market porn. It's something I'm REAL good at. And I just don't want someone like you...whom I do respect...to lump me in with a bunch of cookie cutter tgp script sites.

I just wanted to try and explain what I do and how I do it in hopes of getting a bit of your respect, and maybe even giving you some different ideas on how to market.

Not sure I am gonna succeed on either count. But at least I did take the time to give it a shot.

And you still won't get a single bad word out of me in disrespect towards you.

Again I am misunderstood here...Let me set that straight.

It was almost like WATCHING a sale happen every couple of seconds. But I didn't mean it was every couple of seconds 24 hours a day. Sorry for saying it like that.

What I meant was there were times in the office when we would have something hot going on (Like when the Ed Powers website first hit) where we were watching the numbers move every couple of seconds. That was in the middle of the day and "no" they didn't sell every second for 24 hours straight.

But I was personally making a bit over $3,000 a day as an affiliate. So I think that comes up to $2.08 every minute 24 hours a day.

No matter how you slice it...that was KILLER money.

Not the kind of money that companies like Naughty America and Nasty Dollars and Max Cash and ARS were making as companies...but damn good for one guy putting it in his bank account.

Sorry if I didn't make that completely clear. My fault. It was just a very heady thing and made us joke that we made money everytime we blinked and I was in the middle of typing and didn't think it necessary to fully explain the whole boring story. My bad. :)

the point flew over your head as always.

most PornCMS customers are solo models operating their website alone or with a spouse. i never compared the business or profit of my customers to your business - nor did i ever make a statement about my company's earnings. my point didn't change, even though you tried as usual to use my words for a completely different argument.

$9k a month profit is a good earning for a solo model or small time operator and we have several customers hitting that mark. i don't give a fuck how much money the cancer ward of Paul Markham's house is earning. i only care about my customers, and they prove that there IS money in porn.

Ah, so because it is hard, that is bad?

Not impossible, right, just a bit more work.

I think all you are moaning about is you had it fucking easy for 20 years in the UK. There were 6 or 7 shooters and you made money REALLY easily. Now, people have to work.

However, the good people in this biz aren't afraid of hard work. Some are used to it. You seem pissed there is no gravy train anymore.


Of course there were fewer sites. There were fewer people online too.

Not sure how you work out 448% increase is bad?

Only 28.3% of the population has the ability to buy porn. This is growing massively every day. This is good.

The fact YOU don't believe the internet population is growing, the fact YOU think the market is closed now is hilarious.

Nothing flew over my head, love. I just disagree with you in every way on this. You think we've reach the end of the population and I see we've only got 28% of the world connected.

I agree with you. The majority of people can buy, want to buy and will buy. And they're growing. Hourly.


None of what you said has anything at all to do with demographics, and the word doesn't need capitalisation. It's just you lying saying that the new people coming to the internet are not buying porn. Which is a huge lie. Just one of my clients has the majority of their income from 18-25 year olds. And of that, 18-19 year olds are a huge percentage.

These are people that you think have been trained to think porn is free. They are all happy to pay. I promise. You just need to market to them properly and create a service they think is worth paying for. Oh and you need to work a bit.

--

Nice one for trying though. It's amazing how you are keeping this bs going.

Upping the technical quality of your porn is something anyone can do. That's one of the reasons so many sites have the same to similar quality of content. Anyone can buy the latest camera, good lights and learn how to use them. Upping the PORN quality of porn is a lot harder.

It needs a shooter who can operate a model/models. Knows how to direct them, knows how to pull the best out of them and knows which ones to shoot and which ones are a waste of time. No matter how good your equipment is a crap scene is a crap scene even if it's shot on equipment more at home in a Hollywood studio.

Then there's the task of knowing angles, how and where to shoot, looking at a scene prior to shooting and seeing the problems, like not shooting a 3 girl lesbian scene in a room too small for it and the bed with a large bedstead at the bottom of the bed that will hide the action and distract the viewer.

Knowing not to shoot countless pictures all the same, not to have girls in a couple scene grinning into the camera time after time, using the image set as a way to get the models or models into what they're going to do on video or even bond and warm up each other. Also good at showing the models the positions for the video.

Then when the shooter shoots is it shows him what to do on the video, the problems he might come up with, the angles he needs to cover, the shots he needs to get and how to construct the video scene.

All this is second nature to professional shooters with years of experience. They learnt it by making mistakes, having them corrected and learning how to do it right. There's no college or book that teaches to shoot porn, because it's like teaching someone to play football without letting them onto a field.

The bigger question is why didn't more of the richer players employ better shooters. So separating themselves from the Ma and Pa side of the industry?

Why did so many fill their sites with content shot by people who couldn't sell to a better paying market?

When Paul Markham speaks.. you listen

those days are long gone never to return again