drunkmonkey

Liberation is not the goal, from what I can gather. Hell, America is the reason the Iraq people are starving and desperate. Foreign policy has been handled like crap. It could be better, this is true, but hindsight is always 20/20. I do not agree with an assault on Iraq but I will not fight my own people if it comes down to it.

Whatever the reasons for this war may be, I just pray that our boys are unscathed and I will not be the one to say they were wrong.

MonkeyMan

And you think there wont be terrorist attacks in america after this begins??? You should be praying for you family at home not the boys overseas. The political climate is volatile..... WAAAY to volatile for this to resolve smoothly... thats why we are hesitating.

drunkmonkey

terrorism and the desire to inflict pain on others will take years and years and years to eradicate from the human race. All of the security, military, special forces, etc., in the world will not end that. Our goal is to defeat terrorism by not letting them win. We cannot forego our freedom for safety. We cannot allow a nut with a bomb destroy democracy.

All we can hope for is to take away the DESIRE for people to terrorize us. Attacking Iraq, Afghanistan, North Korea, etc., will not do away with terrorism. Hell, it will only make it worse. However, terrorism wins if we "batten down the hatches" and start shooting anyone that does not look like us.

sacX

The United States has huge military presence in Japan, Korea and Germany. That's a type of colonisation. The United States make sure it controls strategic positions that are in it's interest. Iraq has strategic interest.

Theo

Keeping Bush as a US president and your children will have many history chapters with titles like "11 september 2001".
It requires only one similar attack and they'll be no return this time.

Theo

Terrorism word is the scam of the century. Why don't you do it terrorism and communism this time?

MonkeyMan

No one is suggesting that. But what we are doing now amounts to flailing wildly at mutiple countries. ethier DO it.... or get out.... ever hear the outkast song BOB "Don't whip your thing out unless you plan to bang"

Same shit his fater did. This indecive crap, Making tension build. Fuck the UN they arent shit they dont do anything unless america tells them to. Its a joke. Theres no reason to do it in the first place.... but if you must.... get it the fuck over with.

This war is gonna have the most mdeia coverage of any war... thats about the only thing I'm looking forward to.

Man I'm almost out of wine

ColKurtz

go fuck yourself


theres only two options.

1. take out radical fuckers now


2. let them get a full arsenal of long range nukes and then be in a cold war with them till the end of time.

MonkeyMan

You mean the ones like the radical capitalists have.....

ColKurtz

live in fear you socialist shit head

MonkeyMan

Im not socialist... if you had read even half of the thread you would have realized that. Why dont you continue talking out of your ass, it seems to be working well for you.

Pornwolf

I look at the UN as the NY branch office of the White House with a few hundred visitors seats.

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drunkmonkey

BIG difference between subjugating the masses and neutralizing a counter-offensive. We have NEVER subjected any defeated country to undu hardship. Quite the opposite. We have helped establish democracies in willing conquered nations. We have not bled any opposing nation of resources and left them dry. We have established great commerce and tried to work them into world trade.

drunkmonkey

True enough. The media is craving this war like bloodthirsty vampires. I agree that if we are going to do it, we should just do it. But then again, there is much more than you and I are both aware of. Saddam cannot be just "taken out". the middle east would erupt into a bedlam of revolt. Without Saddam as a leader, unifying Iraq, the three factions inside would incite the boardering nations into upheaval.

Iraq fought against Iran for the rest of the world becuase of this problem exactly. they fought to contain the revolution of a turmoiled country. We cannot just take Saddam out. I wish we could. There are much more politics involved than we are aware. Unfortunatley, wars and politics go hand in hand.

MonkeyMan

I just can't wait untill we see the first live killings.... I'm just glued to my tv.



http://www.wiredvideo.com/public/video/gunship_video/

Killing poeple leaving a mosque is fun.

Honeyslut

Who let the animals out of the zoo ?

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sacX

Killing more than 2million civilians in Vietnam and dropping more bombs than in world war 2. Oh and how about decimating Afghanistan first time around while fighting proxy wars with the Russians?

Oh and lets not forget supporting Saddam in his war with Iran, funding and training contras in Nicuaragua.. the list goes on much longer than this..

jammyjenkins

how long have you been a GOP party spokesman?

the real magoo

You guys should read this book:

Stupid White Men

jammyjenkins

you said 'communist'



it feels like 1980 all over again

theking

Reasons for war.

#1. Iraq was defeated on the field of battle and signed certain terms. Iraq has been in violation of those terms since they signed the terms in '91. The USA has demanded that those terms be complied with and that Iraq remain a defeated country.

#2. Iraq attempted to assasinate a former American President.

#3. Iraq has fired upon, almost daily, for almost 11 years, USA military forces.

#4. Iraq is believed to have, or are acquiring, or are attempting to acquire WMD's. The USA will not allow that.

#5. Iraq has, on multiple occassions called for Americans, to be killed where ever they are found. Thus they are a sworn enemy of the USA.

#6. Iraq is a strategic piece of real estate for future military operations against our enemies in the region, which number in the 100's of millions.

#7. Iraq is a strategic piece of real estate for its oil fields and for the surrounding oil fields, for as the worlds oil supplies dwindle the USA will be in a position to control the dwindling oil supplies for its use and the use of its European allies.

#8. A take over of Iraq sends a very powerful signal to the other countries in that area of the world that if they don't get their act together they will be next.

Any one of the reasons above is a reason for war. Any questions?

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GTS Mark

Why do you think they left Saddam in power before, do you think they left him in power because he was a great leader to his people?

Of course not people we all know this...

They left him in power to stabilize the oil prices and keep Opec from blasting the prices through the roof after the war.

Plain and simple the US is in the middle east to protect their oil prices... Do you really think they care about the human factor?

Lets not all buy what CNN feeds us people

DH

Sneka

Totally agree ... And they did the same when Irak invaded Kuweit: they fought against Irak for economic reasons. And when Irak stop invasion and returned into its country, USA Plain and simple gave up Kuweit and Irak civil...
This time, it's the same. Black Gold is the center of interest, and disarmament of Irak is a pretext.

ThunderBalls

Sounds like you've had your daily feed of the Bush Administrations bullshit fed to you on a hot steaming plate.

REAL reasons for war:

1. Bush has failed miserably in both handling the economy and tracking down terrorists (and everything else for that matter), he perceives a war with Iraq as an easy win and a diversion.

2. Oil.

3. Avenge his fathers fuckups.

4. Republicans love war.

Matt_WildCash

Just so none of you out there read Monkeyman's bullshit and believed it. Please take a second to read the following.

America did land on the moon after all.

http://www.uwgb.edu/dutchs/PSEUDOSC/...ototheMoon.htm

http://www.badastronomy.com/bad/tv/foxapollo.html

http://www.badastronomy.com/bad/misc/apollohoax.html


And the mere fact that 10,000's do believe this shit about Nasa never going to the moon is kinda sad. They think that Nasa spending 100 billion dollars going to the moon with 100,000's of employee's and contractors hired and then ooops they threw this tape together and we didn't bother to turn the air conditioning off and the flag was waving, we forgot about all the bad lighting oops. I mean Nasa has billions to spend if they did want to make a fake moon landing you'd be sure they'd bloody do it right.

Matt_WildCash

If they didn't take over part of German then ALL of germany would be fucked today cause the damn russians would of controled all of germany just like they did East germany. The USA protected and helped prosper the germans and there country is again great thanks to there enemy who defeated them.

The Japanese attacked USA the Japanese lost and the USA now have troops there. The Japanese don't need to spend money on Armies or military they are 100% protected by the USA just by having some USA bases. Nobody is going to fuck with Japan cause it means fucking with the USA and there troops stationed there.

The S koreans hate the USA bases in there country and hate the Americans. But if the Americans leave then North Korea will shell the living fuck out of S korea, maybe nuke it if S korea fights back big time and now you have a united Korea run by a crazy Despot.

Are the Americans the bad guys here? nope, they are the global peace keepers and they should take out Saddam, now is the time, if they don't do it now then Saddam will eventually get Nukes and then you can't touch him. Just look at North Korea you can't go near them now because of the weapons they possess. Do you really want IRAQ to have nukes? What happens when N korea gets missles that can reach the USA and maybe sells that technology too IRAQ. Just before Saddam dies on his death bed he fires off 10 nukes at the USA??? Who knows whats possible.

theking

All eight points are points of fact, and any one of the points is a reason for taking control of Iraq. Combine the 8 points and you have an over whelming reason for taking control of Iraq.

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sacX

Questions for theking


1. What has Iraq done since 1991 that could be construed to affect US national security?

2. So American President tried to assassinate him, hardly a good reason for a war.

3. Well the US is flying over Iraqi airspace, I bet if Iraqi planes were flying over the US they wouldn't stay in the air very
long. The no-fly zones are NOT part of any UN resolution.

4. Well yes, but some evidence would be good. It would give some justification.

5. Do you have a reference for this? Sure Iraq says if they are invaded they will kill invaders, fair enough

6,7,8: yes, but just furthers evidence of US imperialism

What the US lacks is good public relations. Cheney, Rummsfeld and Bush are just so Gung Ho. If they were more like Powell they'd get a lot more support and be able to push through their plans with a bit more credibility. Their actions show they just don't care about what the rest of the world thinks, so the rest of the world will/does resent them

DrastikTactiks

MonkeyMan & DrunkMonkey Socialism Tag Team v1.0 Beta

"What is war good for absolutely nothing"

At this point we dont need no fuken war....
but 60 years ago we need fuken war to straight
rich muther fukers out... bitch!

theking

What does your question have to do with the price of oranges? Iraq was defeated on the field of battle and agreed to the terms of a cease fire. The US intends for Iraq to abide by the terms of the cease fire and remain a defeated country, until hell freezes over, so that it can never pose a threat to other countries in the area. Iraq does not, and never has, and never will be allowed to become a threat to our national security or our economic security, or the national security or economic security of our allies in the area and in Europe.

Clinton should have invaded Iraq when this happened. Do not fuck with the USA.

The US with other members of the coalition imposed the "No Fly Zone" when Sadam began killing the Kurds in the north and the Sheeites (spelling) in the South. The winners of a war usually impose their will on the defeated, just as we did with Germany and Japan and other members of the Axis. The US does not have to ask, nor should it ask, for UN approval for each imposition placed upon a defeated enemy. The UN is basically a debating club and for all practical purposes a useless tool of inaction.

Even the suspicion of having, or attempting to acquire, WMD's is enough to stop a dictator of the type that Sadam is. He is another "Hilter" on a smaller scale.

If you are asking for a link, I do not have one, but if you do a search you probably will find information covering this subject. It is common knowledge for anyone that pays serious attention to world events that Sadam has publically called for Americans to be killed where they are found and has re-stated this in fairly recent times.

Make no mistake about it. The US will do what needs to be done to insure the economic well being of the country and to strategically position ourselves where ever we choose.

I repeat. Make no mistake about it. The US will do what needs to be done to insure the economic well being of the country and to strategically position ourselves where ever we choose.

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sacX

So how many innocent people have to die till the US government is happy?

I am not anti-american. I am anti current US foreign policy. It's totally hypocritical for the United States to espouse democracy and then completely ignore international belief in the United Nations.

For all I know Saddam Hussein has said kill-American's whereever they are. I however like to base my opinion on fact. A reference from a reputable newspaper would be reasonable evidence to me.

DavePlays

Isn't it nice to have a free American forum to spout that shit from? You sure the hell wouldn't get away with it there if it was the other way around would you?

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theking

I suspect (I cannot actually predict the future) there will be hundreds of millions in the years to come. The USA will do what ever it takes to remain the richest most powerful country on the earth for the longest period of time possible. As an American I approve this policy.

The US is not now and has never been a democracy. The US is and has always been a Republic. We espouse what is considered to be in the best interests of the USA.

He has said it multiple times since 1991. If you are serious then do a serious search and you should be able to come up with the info.

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ThunderBalls

I also believe there will be millions killed and I also believe a good part of those will be Americans...on OUR soil. 9/11 was nothing compared to whats about to come, we are hated now more than ever due to Bushes foreign bullshit and it will only be magnified once we attack Iraq. Even the majority of people in countries that are supposed allies think Bush and the US is out of control.

Did 9/11 not teach you anything? People fucking hate us to the point they are willing to die, and it sure the hell isnt because you have a television and they don't. Bushes and the republicans answer? Lets fuel more hatred. Hey man, I would be all for attacking Iraq if I thought something good would come from it but I firmly believe it will be the biggest mistake this country has ever made. Terrorists could EASILY (and I think will) wipe out a good part of this country and if you think taking over Iraq is going to prevent it then you are sadly mistaken.

theking

The United States has been hated ever since we became a superpower post world war two. The hatred has continued to grow, as is to be expected, when you are the richest most powerful country on the earth. We have fought wars before, we have had loss of life before, we will continue to fight wars, and we will continue to have loss of life. If you, or our enemies, think that hatred of us, or loss of American lives will cause the US to give up its way of life, or its position as the dominate country on the earth then you and our enemies need to rethink. If you think that terroists will bring the most powerful country on the earth to its knees then you need to rethink. If we are seriously fucked with we will turn a major portion of this earth and its people into ash and glass.

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sacX

well at least you admit i suppose. The insane thing is I'm sure less than half of the people in the US think the way you do, yet it's your mindset that seems to permeate the Government.

FlyingIguana

so one less fucker creates weapons. lets just sit back and let them build weapons over the next 10 years and then when he tries to take over a country even more people will die.

do you think if they just sit back with their thumb up their ass that everything will be fine and dandy?

MonkeyMan

No, but current policy seems to be "Put your thumb up everyone elses ass just enough to annoy them". Saddam should be dead, I just don't think we are going about it the right way. We missed our chance to take him out so now the US government is making a crisis up, and in the process drawing out real problems like S. Korea.

theking

You are wrong. The over whelming majority of Americans think the way I do. The last poll that I saw 70% of Americans are in favor of invading Iraq. The Government is the people, in the sense that every two years members of the house are elected, or re-elected. Members of the Senate are elected or re-elected every six years and the President every four years. The Government is like the wind and flows with the polls. If the people frown upon a government action then the politicians change their course. Sometimes it takes a while for the government to change course, but the government ultimately flows with the will of the people, for it is the people that elect the people that compose the government.

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ThunderBalls

That is a half truth. 70% are in favor IF we have the backing of the UN. Only 43% favor it if we go alone. And of those 43% it was found that a majority thought that at least one of the terrorists on 9/11 were Iraqi, they were found to be the least informed.

That is very debatable.

sacX

ABC News have 29% supporting a war without the UN weapon inspectors finding WMD.

oh yeah and as for the President less than 50% of people voted for him :-)

Sassyass

Do you drive a car?
Do you cook on a stove?
Do you heat/ cool your house?
Check the ingredients of the lube you use the jerk off with.
God love you left wing flower loving hippies.... but sheesh man, IF the crazy bastards are stupid enough to threaten us, lets kill more than one bird with this stone. Lets alleviate some of the strangle holds on the oil and kill some terrorists.
Don't forget, these guys committed, educated and counting on our nation to react just like your reacting.
THEY WILL attack us again; maybe his time they will use a bio or nuclear attack. SO shut the fuck up and support your damn country or move the fuck out.

theking

In fact there are many pollsters and different polls present different results. The polls can be biased, and in fact are, depending on who the pollster is and/or who is paying for the poll and/or what questions are asked and in what form they are asked and/or if it is a scientifically statistical oriented poll.

In most, if not all elections, a relatively small percentage of people vote, so politicicans always receive less than half of the peoples vote. In Presidential elections, because of the electoral system, Presidents can be elected without recieving a majority of the popular vote. If I recall correctly when Bill Clinton was first elected he received less than 50% of the votes cast. Non the less it is the votes of those people that care enough to follow events and have an active interest in the outcomes of elections that elect the people to positions in government, be it city, county, state or federal. This is the way of our system and always has been.

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mpegposter

One out of every 7 barrels of oil produced in the world is consumed by US automobiles. Scary thought.

I like drunk's original statement (prior to the cliches). Reminds me of a wildfire. Let it burn, and a new forest will spring up. War is our wildfire.

Don't get me wrong I'm not for war at all, but it's like the tides, just comes and goes, can't really change it. People will always be angry.

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stanton

agree with you

ThunderBalls

Typical right wing dumbass moron that doesnt have a clue.

What the fuck does cooking on a stove or heating/cooling my house have to do with oil?? The energy used for these are either natural gas or electricity...both produced by your local utility.

Thank you, God does love us, you I'm not so sure about.

Hey moron, the terrorists werent from Iraq...hello!
So you think its okay to attack because they have oil, well how about I come invade your house because I want your damn stuff, is that okay?

Listen very closely.....Iraq didnt attack us in the first place.



Thats a good little nazi, Bush must be very proud of you.
Sorry, some of us actually DARE to think for ourselves, if YOU don't like it then you can move the fuck out.

Argoz

I agree !







More peace in our world

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Argoz

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jammyjenkins

It sounds like you're the one living in fear.

The paranoia is strong in you, Luke.