So do you think these small programs are going to become rich by telling all their affiliates to fuck off? There's a reason why the affiliate model has been so widespread. It's very lucrative to claim to pay 50/50 but actually pay the affiliate 25% of what they are actually sending you as far as revenue. There's a lot of money in having 1,000 poor saps send you 10,000 clicks a month and make $0 for it while you take all the joins which weren't tracked at best and at worst get free branding. That's just another one of the dirty little secrets.

It's easier for Manwin or RK to tell their affiliates to fuck off after they have already established their tubes as massive traffic pumps. But it'll be tougher for a smaller player unless their affiliate program never did anything anyway. And even if they could why would they if it's still profitable? It may not be as profitable since 70% of affiliates have left and conversions are getting worse but it's still easy money until you get to the point where it's no longer worth the hassle to keep the program open.

I guess we're getting there though. Maybe you're right. When there aren't any affiliates left there's no point in having an affiliate program. I agree. That's coming.

Good point :thumbsup

If the opp is good I dont see why not... if the source is credible and the program owners are knowledgeable in their niche.

but I wouldn't join/pay something to someone I dont know.

Sounds fucking crazy.

Just sayin...

:d

There are plenty adult programs I'd "join" for $10.

There are way more I'd prefer give me $10 to join.

Based on the number of sponsors that I have tried and never made a sale; I
can't imagine that I'd ever join a sponsor that asked me to pay even 1 cent.


If affiliates start paying to join sponsors then the sponsor pool would grow with
absolute shit sponsors. WHY????

Because anybody can through together a pay site and launch it and charge
affiliates to sign up and then closed down because they made all the money
they needed from this crappy site from the affiliates. Then next week, launch
another pay site with a new tour and same content.

I have always considered any money making opportunity that was advertised and
also required a payment to be a loser/fraud/scam.

Bottom line : If I'm going to make so much money with a program then why does
that program need me to pay any money when they are already going to make
money from my sales. They only need me to pay if they don't think I will make them
money. Period.

again think of franchises.

I belive mcdonalds does or did insist that you had 1 million cash spare.

this way the chain had quality franchisers in theory.

in theory this would cut out a lot of rubish, making your product (pay site) apear on quality sites, rather than some rubish sites.

It should make you more sales too as the sites that have paid to join, shouild in time be copnsidered of quality, and as such trusted more, so they should inm turn get more hits but also a better join ratio, leaving the crud sites to crud surfers.

A bit like when you get a gas fitter in, he or she should be members of the right body.

While it sounds crazy, is it?

Think this way, many sites use the money they make from sales to pay for the affiliate area.

That means less cash to spend on content.

If you charge affiliates then that money can be spent on promo bits.

That way the product/paysite is even better.

As such it should for the affiliate sell even better, plus it should re-bill better.

At the moment affiliates are take take take.

Many sites seem to fail, simply on the basis they end up running out of cash to pay affiliates.

Its a bit like a record that was sold in the UK in the 80's. The company sold it, on the basis that it made a loss due to the FourSquare Internet Solutions
ensive cover. More it sold, the bigger loss the firm made. In the end it cost the record company thousands.

Or think this way, if you wanted to sell such as BMW cars, think how much you would have to pay to sell them. Do you think bmw would let some scruffy shop sell them? And would you want BMW to spend all its cash in giving you promo tools or invest in market reaserch and its cars?

Fucking stupid, google affiliate marketing.

DVTimes, you seem very sure that it's a good idea so maybe you should try it with your program and let us know how it turns out?

Sponsors are greedy little piggies already, with their $5 check fees, traffic leaks to twitter, attempting to get their affiliate traffic to circumvent codes by getting them to type in their non-promotable network site (and even if it IS promotable they don't make their header graphic with full .com clickable.. gee wonder why), telling affiliate traffic to "try loading this site with your mobile phone now!!", $200 minimums, lots of wire-only programs now, making you ask to get paid out, the list goes on.

If looking at my sites isn't enough for you to see value in a listing (valued at more than $5...) then you need an IQ test.

That's what I'm thinking as well. There's a reason 70% of your affiliates have left in the last 3 years and it isn't because your program as it exists now is such a wonderful opportunity for them. I intend no offense with this I think some people need to exercise a little common sense.

If you're serious about wanting to run and keep an affiliate program do the opposite and start trying to make your terms BETTER than the other guys by getting rid of the crap such as what is spoken of above. Maybe then your affiliates will stick around and keep sending you traffic instead of leaving?

No offense ladies, but you apparently prefer to see things only from the rosey eyes of an affiliate. Not the bigger picture as a business owner. Which would include BOTH sides of the equation. If the program goes out of business, you do not get paid. It's reliant on BOTH pieces to make it work.

Most of those minimum payout threshold and the rest are to prevent fraud, and include levels of cost control. Something that you could help eliminate, fraud, by being filtered on the front end.

Add in that if content would have always been, and was today, locked down a bit more with a more selective process in place as to who would get the keys to the castle... and maybe... just maybe your affiliate sites would convert better.

Whatcha think hmmmm? :upsidedow

Stealing my traffic is to *prevent* fraud?

Whose seeing what through rosey glasses?

It IS fraud.. Jeeze.

And you don't even have a program, you just look up to them hoping one of them one day will be your friend.

You always have this same typical I'm better than everyone attitude man, it doesn't look good on you.

Typical bullshit. Stick to the actual issue being discussed champ.

You have no idea what I do and do not have. Who I do, and do not work with. This is just more of your ASSumptions. This topic has nothing to do with me, and my associations, no matter how much you would like to make it about "Barefootsies".

Maybe if you spent more time and energy focusing on the issue at hand, and less time playing the blame game or personal vendettas, you would be more successful and spend less time crying in your beer.
:2 cents:

q f t

Again with the affiliate content thing. It has your watermark on it with an url and is a two minute clip. You aren't being rational. I'd say you were merely some sort of anti-affiliate troll but there are actually people out there who think like you and I've ran into them. It's much of the reason why I am trying to get away from promoting paysites. When the program owner looks at you putting up their 2 minute clips complete with urls on them, two large banners and a text link as some sort of liability it's time to get away from them. Especially if they are doing nothing to stop the real piracy of their full scene content by non-affiliates.

How long have you been in this industry?

Honest question.

Nearly 13 years.

You were talking down to me (and affiliates in general) in your first post. Then again in your second post. Champ? Ladies? Not a business owner?

Are you the only one allowed to sling insults?

Minimum payments at $200 has *nothing* to do with fraud. I've never once complained about a 2 week or even a month long holding period that does help with fraud.

As for my time spent, I go months and sometimes even years without coming here. Every once in a while I think of GFY and give it a visit. I think our post counts and join dates should spell that out.

Nobody is blaming, and I don't have a personal vendetta against you as many people here do. But when you talk down to me, I take offense.

So, maybe if you spent more of the massive amounts of time you spend here being nice and talking about issues without attacking people, other people might be able to stay on topic more.

Note: You didn't even mention my actual points in your last post, and instead chose to continue talking about you, while telling me to "stick to the actual issue" which you so cleverly underlined.

Does that not strike you as a bit telling?

No offense ladies? Can those three words even go together? That's like saying "Don't take offense to this punch"...

You can apologize now and we can continue discussing the issues if you want. I'm cool with that.

Then you have seen the changes in the programs right over that time?

You did not get automatic approval in "the good ole days". You had to show who and what you are. They would then go and look at your sites and stats. More often than not you had to be established before they would let you join. This helped to lock down content, and fraud.

Over time, many of these forum owners learned that they just had to sign up to be an affiliate and they could get all of the content via an affiliate program. They could even ask for free passed to the sites to make their 'customer promotional material' and then they would go use this for their forums.

Then over the next decade you had affiliates wanting more and more, giving away more and more. Affiliate programs had to comply if they wanted the traffic including the insane $75-100.00 payouts.

Of course the affiliates would like to complain of traffic leaks, the X-Sell, Upsells, and the rest. But they STILL wanted their high payouts. Never breaking out a calculator on how exactly a company can pay out $100.00 on a $24.99 membership. Yet expecting an affiliate program to stay in business.

Then somewhere in all of this they are 'amazed' there are all of these things that have happened in the past... X sells, card banging, and the rest. The numbers never made sense in the first place.

Anyway, I'll just leave it to you to debate the affiliate end it's clear you are set in how you want to see it. The affiliate model, in its's current form, is dying and the programs have moved away from it. Sure, there will always be room for the king fish who can convert like a Robbie or alike. But most of the old affiliates will no longer be competitive in the adult of the future.
:2 cents:

So let me make sure I get this straight.

Because I used some sarcasm in my post as a prelude (as I always have), YOU take personal offense to it, and YOU feel that I am intentionally belittling YOU personally on some level. Which then gives you a free license to bring personal snide remarks that have absolutely nothing to do with the topic at hand?

Then when I make a reply to your snide remarks, that had nothing really to do with the talking points or discussion YOU had derailed of the thread, I am somehow to blame for it? Because you made post number 1, to which I replied, I am some how just as guilty as you. So if you throw a stone, and I throw one back, I am as guilty as the instigator in some way.

Got it chief. Just wanted to make sure I understand the logic, or lack there of, here.

That said, I honestly do not care whether you like me or not. That should be relevant to most of GFY by now. Nor, how much time you do, or do not spend here. Join dates or post counts. In the end, it really doesn't matter to anyone but YOU. Tell someone in the real world about either of those points, and they will look at you like you're an idiot.

If being called 'chief', 'champ', 'sport', 'BRO' or any other slang term makes you this mad. Frankly you have deeper issues to concern yourself with.
:2 cents:

Actually I believe the first time I ever had to be approved for a program was around 2006 or 2007 but I have some very old accounts and at that time mostly stuck with a core group of sponsors. In the old days it was automatic at most places. The closest thing to it that I ever ran into was AVS programs which had to approve your sites in order for them to be listed on their directory.

May I ask if your join date is about the time when you came in to adult? Mine says 2007 but I've been around since before GFY existed and when Lensman used to post on PornCity BBS about his cameras... I used to have an older GFY account from 2003 maybe but I honestly (really!) don't know the email, nickname, or anything. It's been so long ago. I also might have posted 12 times at best.


In all the programs I am an affiliate with (around 500) and within the past 13 years, I have asked for members area access or for special content to be made for me no more than three times. Usually it was due to a complete lack of any promo content available for me to promote a site. On the other hand I've probably NOT sent traffic to a program due to a lack of promo content over 100 times or more.

Up until recently I strongly favored 50% revshare and always have. Nearly 90% of paysites which I promote are currently on a revshare basis. I've always been a long term affiliate. I agree that the herd has acted stupidly and I've been just as frustrated with it.

See the section above. I am 90% revshare. That's why I am so adament about not having those things. I want a real long term partnership. That's what I have always been about. But I've since moved away from that and am starting to stop promoting new paysites completely due to instability. Also PPS in now more attractive due to the uncertainty and all of the games being played on affiliates.

The herd has bothered me as well. I agree. But a lot of this stuff is still happening on revshare programs. I see that as the sponsor just being greedy and an ass to their loyal affiliates.

I agree it is dying in this industry and has been for a long time. I'm set in my ways in the sense that I want an honest long term partnership and will not consent to being ripped off. But what I want is a rare thing in this industry. A relic of the past rarely seen these days. There are very few programs in 2011 which I consider to be acceptable and fewer yet who convert well. I still send these programs joins and will continue to do so until that's no longer the case. In the meantime I'm also moving on to other things. Hell I already often feel like some sort of endangered species. ;)

Gotta go get some other things done. Nice chatting with you. Interesting conversation actually. You made me think. :)

Nope. I've been in adult/online game since May of 1997 after I had gotten out of college. I self taught myself design, HTML and all of that other stuff. I farm it all out now, but back then I learned and did it all myself. Like you, I had a previous nick. Reg'd 2003 I believe with a handful of posts. Mainly lurked back then.

At some point, I have done a little of everything. I continue to evolve, following the money, as "the only constant is change" in this business. Technology and the higher bar of entry is going to eliminate many more before this is all over.


Glad to hear. :thumbsup That is my end goal.... to get you to think :winkwink:.

Ok princess douchebag.

(Don't take any offense to that, btw! I only add stuff like that to help everyone stay on topic!)

Whatever works for you ace.
:2 cents:

I really don't see how paying $5 would eliminate fraud...

To be honest, I don't see ANYTHING good about doing that.

What about you WILLING sending over all of your I.D. and docs for all affiliate programs then chief? While it could be a mix, or all of the following, I am sure that this would help your fraud concerns.

Copies of the following for your pleasure submitted by affiliates upon sign up...

* Passport/Driver's License
* Business Incorporation Docs
* Voided Out Bank Statement or Check

Would that curl your anti-fraud toes?

Hmm, I can think of several long-standing mainstream companies that require a fee up-front from prospective affiliates (aka "distributors")

Want to sell or MLM in the Mary Kay biz? There's a kit you have to buy and I believe a yearly fee as well to get started.

Same with Amway, which includes their online distributorship thing too which is called what... star-something.

In fact pretty much any of the old school "affiliate programs" like these had and still have a buy-in or startup fee of some sort.

You don't get to sign up for free and get all needed promo materials etc for free and away you go. In fact as you need new promo materials you have to pay for those as well.

So this 5-pound fee company isn't exactly going against any grain, only the grain we as adult program affiliates are used to.

What's 5 pounds these days, about 8 dollars USD? About the same in CAD. I'd have to trot out the proverbial "Big Whoop" on that one, sorry...

8 bucks? Big whoop.

And you get it back with your first payment? lol I'm really not seeing the reason for complaining here.

I wanted to charge a monthly fee to be an affiliate. I thought it'd create an air of exclusivity :1orglaugh

That's not a realistic analogy because we already know that McDonalds makes
money. We do not know that a new sponsor is going to make money.

McD's didn't start out as a franchise; it evolved into one based on performance.
A new sponsor has no record of performance.

Further, McDonalds never hauled ass with affiliate money. :1orglaugh

Charging affiliates seems like an act of desperation of a program that is planning
on failing.

And why would a crook who is going to steal $5k from your program give a shit
about using a stolen credit card to pay the affiliate fee and then hose you anyway?

Priceless...

...comedy.

:2 cents:

To be honest if your going to promote a site you would have some idea it would sell.

There are many new franchises that may or may not sell. But you pay as you think it will.

An affilite is a sort of franchiser. With white label sites even more so.

OK, lets talk franchise.

A franchise sets up a business where I pay franchise fees and take all the sales
profit for myself.

Therefore an adult sponsor franchise needs to charge me a franchise fee and
then FTP all the pay site content to my server and help me set up billing and
I then send all my traffic to my "franchise" and keep all sales.


I'll pay a monthy fee for a dogfart franchise!!!!!!!!!!

Yeah, let them move all members area to my servers and I keep all sales and just
pay them for the "official dogfart" label on my website and members area.

That's a franchise, you are talking about membership fees so we can send traffic and
trying to equate that to a franchise.

Disclaimer : I can't afford a dogfart franchise even if they had one because they'd
be damned stupid to charge less than 10K-100k a month.

It is simple...

Make signing up to your program just as hard as it was to get a partner account at a large TGP back before those started charging you. Or even a traffic trade at a major TGP.

Somehow they cut through all of the bullshit and managed to keep cheaters out of their systems.

If you made people get vouched by successful affiliates or have their own stats and traffic sources they can prove to you are their's, you let them in. Make it harder to figure out how to signup.

I have two friends I brought into this industry and the only programs that vetted them were Nasty Dollars and Lightspeed Cash. Everyone else was open or practically open because they pretty much just had to wait a day to be allowed in. No wonder there is so much fraud. Make it harder.

Oops...

ThatOneProgram.com/JayManCash.com

They actually sent me an Email thinking one of my buddies was using my sites to join. Well, he was... But they actually caught it. Amazing!

Wow, I just thought about what I've been doing over the last year.

Eliminating sponsors.

Cleaning house of stuff that doesn't convert or the sponsor has gone under or
I can't log into stats.

Now a sponsor wants me to pay.


BWAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!


I'm trying to shrink my sponsors down to the ones that can pay me.

the companies on affiliatewindow (and tradedoubler, etc) are hot on their t&cs and often want "decent" sites (not spammy auto generated blogs), guessing the £5 helps aff window stop people who will just put links up on shitty sites. think they might even call u to verify stuff (can't remember if they did with me, remember talking to them about something)

...unlike adult where anyone can sign up as an affiliate and most times approved straight away.

No 45 secs is ok but push it to one minute and they get really pissed. So the point of your post is you have X number of affiliates and your sites are so shit you think you'll make more money by charging affiliates for the priviledge of promoting them ?

bump...........