A better thread Aarron

[Paul Markham]

The thread regarding the 2257 compliant sites was a very good idea and shook a few people up. Got some to learn what is and what is not right.

But as someone who has been in this business a long time I know what it is like to have the police turn up with a search warrant. Or a lawyer accuse me of selling content I do not have the right to sell.

The only person you can trust to keep your arse out of jail or a court is yourself. You need documents in your possession if the "Shit hit's the fan"

So how about a list of content providers who provide the 2257 documents to their clients with the content without being asked?

We will start it with a YES

Who else does or does not?

[Kristoffer]

I own the licens to 1005 of what I use

[AaronM]

Originally posted by charly
The thread regarding the 2257 compliant sites was a very good idea and shook a few people up. Got some to learn what is and what is not right.

But as someone who has been in this business a long time I know what it is like to have the police turn up with a search warrant. Or a lawyer accuse me of selling content I do not have the right to sell.

The only person you can trust to keep your arse out of jail or a court is yourself. You need documents in your possession if the "Shit hit's the fan"

So how about a list of content providers who provide the 2257 documents to their clients with the content without being asked?

We will start it with a YES

Who else does or does not?

Considering that this is not likely to do a damn thing for the webmasters, I fail to see why you insist on pushing it so hard.

If you want that list...Knock yourself out. Should be easy to list the 5 or so that offer that.

This topic was beat to death a few weeks ago.

[Fletch XXX]

crazy czechs.

[Paul Markham]

Originally posted by Fletch XXX
crazy czechs.

I'm English.

Aaron
It's about who do you trust that the models are over age, they signed away the rights for the content to be sold and the guy you are buying from owned the content and the rights to sell it.

Or do you just leave it up to a guy you found on a resource list or board?

Simple choice.

[AaronM]

Originally posted by charly
I'm English.

Aaron
It's about who do you trust that the models are over age, they signed away the rights for the content to be sold and the guy you are buying from owned the content and the rights to sell it.

Or do you just leave it up to a guy you found on a resorce list or board?

Simple choice.

If the guy is shady in the first place then he can not be trusted to give unaltered copies of ID's. Let us not forget that the law also requires us to gather additional info such as other names used..etc...etc.. How many providers provide that?

It's a comfort thing. Nothing more, nothing less.

Case closed.

[Fletch XXX]

Originally posted by charly
I'm English.

i dont give a fuck what you are old man.

where you live dictates more than i care to say.

[kmanrox]

i know paul provides copies of id's.... but theres no reason he should get on a pedistol and start bashing other people because by chance he happened to be one of the only ppl doing such a service....

[Kenneth K]

In this matter, I would agree with Charlie....

Our point of view on this matter has changed in the latest time where wellknown companies have used girls not old enough...

To start with we believed that people should just ask, but as things are now, we are working on putting model ID's in every photoset we delivers, so that the webmaster always can be sure that what he gets is legit.

[stocktrader23]

Originally posted by charly
The thread regarding the 2257 compliant sites was a very good idea and shook a few people up. Got some to learn what is and what is not right.

But as someone who has been in this business a long time I know what it is like to have the police turn up with a search warrant. Or a lawyer accuse me of selling content I do not have the right to sell.

The only person you can trust to keep your arse out of jail or a court is yourself. You need documents in your possession if the "Shit hit's the fan"

So how about a list of content providers who provide the 2257 documents to their clients with the content without being asked?

We will start it with a YES

Who else does or does not?

FAProductions sent me licenses and releases with my order.

[AaronM]

Originally posted by Kenneth K
In this matter, I would agree with Charlie....

Our point of view on this matter has changed in the latest time where wellknown companies have used girls not old enough...

To start with we believed that people should just ask, but as things are now, we are working on putting model ID's in every photoset we delivers, so that the webmaster always can be sure that what he gets is legit.

Please tell me how a crooked provider give out copies of altered ID's is gonna benefit anybody?

On second though...Don't.

I am not saying it is a bad idea. I am simply saying that it is bullshit to comfort the webmasters.....Most of which do not know a damn thing about the laws but seem to think that they do.

It's a good plan if the content provider can be trusted but then again...If they can be trused then it is not needed in the first place.

Think about it.

[AaronM]

Originally posted by stocktrader23


FAProductions sent me licenses and releases with my order.

Cool. What was the models maiden name and/or any other aliases, nicknames, or stage names she has used?

Don't have them do ya? Guess what...That's the law.

Now what?

[Loch]

Originally posted by AaronM


Cool. What was the models maiden name and/or any other aliases, nicknames, or stage names she has used?

Now what?

Why would this be a problem for a provider to send out?
Can only speak for us of cause, but the client always get both ID and model release with both real name + stage name/names...

Hell some systems the webmasters uses require the Model release.
And ID is a MUST imo...

I know of several other providers that do the exact same thing.

[stocktrader23]

Originally posted by AaronM


Cool. What was the models maiden name and/or any other aliases, nicknames, or stage names she has used?

Don't have them do ya? Guess what...That's the law.

Now what?

I was responding with a smart ass comment to a spam thread.

Tis all.


And Davenport is the maiden name if it's that big of a deal.

[Libertine]

When you content provider suddenly goes out of business/disappears, having that info might just save your ass

[Ludedude]

Originally posted by AaronM


Considering that this is not likely to do a damn thing for the webmasters, I fail to see why you insist on pushing it so hard.

If you want that list...Knock yourself out. Should be easy to list the 5 or so that offer that.

This topic was beat to death a few weeks ago.

Amen to that. Charly's just sniffing around for your leftovers

[Paul Markham]

Originally posted by punkworld
When you content provider suddenly goes out of business/disappears, having that info might just save your ass

Or you piss him off.
Or you stop buying from him.
Or he dies.
Or he has a fire
Or he's on holiday.
Or he just does not have them like he says he did.

He may sound nice, trust worthy and a real regular guy. Right up to the moment when you need that paperwork.

Aaron
I think that answers that one. Don't believe me? Ask a lawyer.

kmanrox
It's not a service, it's normal.

Options are simple. Put your freedom and business into your hands are a strangers hands. Your choice.

It's like me shooting a girl who says she's 18 and has a passport at home and can show it anytime I need her to. I'm not that stupid.

I personally do not see why others do not provide this info. Blank out the girls address/contact details. Include them into a file with the content, takes 5 minutes.

Worried about the girls annonimiyt? Don't take pictures of her in the nude with a vibrator stuck in her arse and some girl licking her. Then sell them all over the net.

[Loch]

Originally posted by charly
[/SIZE]
Worried about the girls annonimiyt? Don't take pictures of her in the nude with a vibrator stuck in her arse and some girl licking her. Then sell them all over the net.

Sit on my face sit on my faaaaaceeee

(Cant believe you actually did that on tape ROTFL)

[Paul Markham]

Sit on my face, and tell me that you love me
Sit on my face, and tell me that you care

Sit on my face, and tell me that you love me
I'll sit on your face and tell you I love you, too.
I love to hear you moralize
When I'm between your thighs
You blow me away

Sit on my face and let my lips embrace you
I'll sit on your face and let my love be truly.
Life can be fine if we're both 69
If we sit on our faces at losses of places and play
'Till we're blown away

Now that is what I call wrap music.

Wrap your legs around my neck music.

[Loch]

now im just plain sorry we dident get you to finish the song haha

[LadyMischief]

Originally posted by charly
Sit on my face, and tell me that you love me
Sit on my face, and tell me that you care

Sit on my face, and tell me that you love me
I'll sit on your face and tell you I love you, too.
I love to hear you moralize
When I'm between your thighs
You blow me away

Sit on my face and let my lips embrace you
I'll sit on your face and let my love be truly.
Life can be fine if we're both 69
If we sit on our faces at losses of places and play
'Till we're blown away

Now that is what I call wrap music.

Wrap your legs around my neck music.

Monty Python. I've been singing that song since I was like, 12 :P

I was raised on Monty Python. Personally, I like "Never Be Rude to an Arab".

[AaronM]

I find it humorous that the majority of the people who want to debate this issue are not even subject the the laws in question.

Let me spell it out for you slow folks.....

Do any of you know what a FEDERAL LAW is? The federal law REQUIRES the PRIMARY producer to maintaing these records. The same law also requires the primary producer to maintain the records for 5 years, after he is out of business.

Let's say that major video label "A" produces a movie. They post their 2257 info as required by law and release the video. 6 months later they move their offices. 8 months after that their records keeper dies. 1.5 years down the road, ther office burns to the ground.

Now....How many Federal laws have been broken? I mean not only is their address out of date on the released tape but so is the name of the custodian of records AND to top it all off....all of thier 2257 documentation is now gone.

The answer is...NONE!

You, as a webmaster DO NOT NEED THE FUCKING INFORMATION. PERIOD. You are NOT responsible...Your primary producer is. It's a comfort thing. Get over it.

This entire issue is the very reason I started that thread about which content providers have their sites 2257 compliant. If their site is not compliant then whats to say the rest of their records are? Lower your risk and buy from those who are following the laws. Lower your risk even further and by from those who are subject to the very laws that you are subject to. Translation = If you are subject to US laws and you REALLY want to protect your ass, only purchase from US content providers.

Read the law.
Understand the law.
Follow the law.

[Paul Markham]

Never be rude to an Arab
An Israeli or Saudi or Jew
Never be rude to an Irishman
No matter what you do

Never pull fun at a ******
A Spic or a Wop or a Kraut
And never poke fun at a...[Boom]

Much better than all that boring 2257 crap.

[LadyMischief]

Originally posted by AaronM
I find it humorous that the majority of the people who want to debate this issue are not even subject the the laws in question.

Let me spell it out for you slow folks.....

Do any of you know what a FEDERAL LAW is? The federal law REQUIRES the PRIMARY producer to maintaing these records. The same law also requires the primary producer to maintain the records for 5 years, after he is out of business.

Let's say that major video label "A" produces a movie. They post their 2257 info as required by law and release the video. 6 months later they move their offices. 8 months after that their records keeper dies. 1.5 years down the road, ther office burns to the ground.

Now....How many Federal laws have been broken? I mean not only is their address out of date on the released tape but so is the name of the custodian of records AND to top it all off....all of thier 2257 documentation is now gone.

The answer is...NONE!

You, as a webmaster DO NOT NEED THE FUCKING INFORMATION. PERIOD. You are NOT responsible...Your primary producer is. It's a comfort thing. Get over it.

This entire issue is the very reason I started that thread about which content providers have their sites 2257 compliant. If their site is not compliant then whats to say the rest of their records are? Lower your risk and buy from those who are following the laws. Lower your risk even further and by from those who are subject to the very laws that you are subject to. Translation = If you are subject to US laws and you REALLY want to protect your ass, only purchase from US content providers.

Read the law.
Understand the law.
Follow the law.

Amen.. ALthough there are several non-US providers who actually comply with US regulations. I know we do, and there are several other that I know of as well who aren't subject to 2257 but still comply. What Aaron says is correct.. The PRIMARY producer is the one who has to maintain records. End users/webmasters are NOT required to have this information... Altered model releases/ids wouldn't stand up in court anyways, and if end users are getting full documentation, who's to say they aren't some crackpot who's going to go hunting himself a little flesh? If you can't trust your content provider to have their records in order, if you can't trust them to comply with the law and have you back when you need it, DO NOT BUY FROM THEM, period. When in doubt, go with what you trust.

[Nydahl]

Originally posted by AaronM
I find it humorous that the majority of the people who want to debate this issue are not even subject the the laws in question.

Let me spell it out for you slow folks.....

Do any of you know what a FEDERAL LAW is? The federal law REQUIRES the PRIMARY producer to maintaing these records. The same law also requires the primary producer to maintain the records for 5 years, after he is out of business.

Let's say that major video label "A" produces a movie. They post their 2257 info as required by law and release the video. 6 months later they move their offices. 8 months after that their records keeper dies. 1.5 years down the road, ther office burns to the ground.

Now....How many Federal laws have been broken? I mean not only is their address out of date on the released tape but so is the name of the custodian of records AND to top it all off....all of thier 2257 documentation is now gone.

The answer is...NONE!

You, as a webmaster DO NOT NEED THE FUCKING INFORMATION. PERIOD. You are NOT responsible...Your primary producer is. It's a comfort thing. Get over it.

This entire issue is the very reason I started that thread about which content providers have their sites 2257 compliant. If their site is not compliant then whats to say the rest of their records are? Lower your risk and buy from those who are following the laws. Lower your risk even further and by from those who are subject to the very laws that you are subject to. Translation = If you are subject to US laws and you REALLY want to protect your ass, only purchase from US content providers.

Read the law.
Understand the law.
Follow the law.

to be honest I don't know what the people are discussing with you.My english is no top one but I do understand what I have to change on my site - and I am working on it.So what is the fucking problem - it is clear for me so should be clear for anybody.
All non US content providers want to keep US customers so they have to follow US law
I thank you for all info Aaron it is very usefull for me - it doesn't change that I hate your fat ass of course

[LadyMischief]

Does it feel like we've been through all this before!??

http://gofuckyourself.com/showthread...hreadid=106258

Only PRODUCERS are required to have documentation, although the LAWYER said it was a good idea for DISTRIBUTORS to have them. I guess nobody reads this stuff much

Webmasters are not required to have docs. Only custodial information.

[AaronM]

Originally posted by LadyMischief
Does it feel like we've been through all this before!??

http://gofuckyourself.com/showthread...hreadid=106258

Only PRODUCERS are required to have documentation, although the LAWYER said it was a good idea for DISTRIBUTORS to have them. I guess nobody reads this stuff much

Webmasters are not required to have docs. Only custodial information.

Some people never learn... Even Charly did not catch on AFTER the attorney he was quoting came in and informed him of his mistake.

[Loch]

Still cant see the problem in over protecting our clients and our selves...

[Loch]

Afterall...

Better to be allive and cool
Then dead and uncool

GOD i miss my bike

[Paul Markham]

Originally posted by Loch
Still cant see the problem in over protecting our clients and our selves...

They are talking 2257, I am talking about something else.

Under age models

Models knowing the content will be sold

Sellers owning the content.

Copyright

Protecting your arse.

2257 is nothing, it is very rarely enacted upon.

[LadyMischief]

Originally posted by Loch
Still cant see the problem in over protecting our clients and our selves...

None whatsoever. But confusing webmasters as to what's REQUIRED of them and what's simple a good idea is important, too yes? I'd rather have an informed customer than someone who comes to me a week or a month later freaking out because they don't know what their requirements are.

[Paul Markham]

Originally posted by LadyMischief

Only PRODUCERS are required to have documentation, although the LAWYER said it was a good idea for DISTRIBUTORS to have them. I guess nobody reads this stuff much

A ggod idea and a lot are saying don't bother no need, too much bother.

Why not have documents, with the models contact address removed?

[LadyMischief]

Originally posted by charly
A ggod idea and a lot are saying don't bother no need, too much bother.

Why not have documents, with the models contact address removed?

That is totally cool and I agree with that.. Handing out model information to virtual strangers on a silver platter, however, is NOT cool. I have had problems with model's stalked.. It's not cool.. it's just as scary for me as it is for them (in this case the girl's pics were found by a co-worker, but you can see where I'm going with that). Customer comfort level is important.. but I'm simply stating it's not REQUIRED for them to have the docs.. With all talk of what IS the law and what ISN'T, it's nice to make sure people aren't getting confused

[AaronM]

Originally posted by Loch
Still cant see the problem in over protecting our clients and our selves...

Who said there was a problem with it?

My concern is that by you guys stating things that are NOT facts, you are scaring the clients. Here is an ICQ conversation between myself and another content provider. We are talking about this thread.

"Session Start (ICQ - Edited): Thu Apr 24 08:45:35 2003

[08:45] Edited: Paul seems to be trying very hard to discredit you

[08:45] Edited: or at least push the envelope unneccessarily

[08:46] AaronM: I noticed that too

[08:46] Edited: He likes to think he's superior.. that I can understand.. 75% of the board has that affliction..but he's taking it a little far I think

[08:47] Edited: especially when he has nothing concrete to back it up

[08:47] Edited: he seems like he has to get his little digs in though.. on everyone

[08:48] AaronM: Have you informed him of this?

[08:48] Edited: And he's created a lot of confusion as far as what's required of webmasters.. I've had like 25 frantic icqs from customers wondering about what is required of them

[08:48] Edited: of which, not having anythign concrete? He should already nkow.. hell remember when you and he were going at it and his lawyer came on to say he was wrong? :P

[09:01] AaronM: Looks like somebody else pulled up that old thread.

[09:20] Edited:

[09:21] Edited: Gee, Paul backpeddling.. I've never seen THAT before :P

[09:21] Edited: haha"

[AaronM]

Originally posted by charly
2257 is nothing, it is very rarely enacted upon.

Hello McFly?

Check out the recent deveopments in that before you post things that will backfire on you.

[Paul Markham]

Originally posted by LadyMischief


None whatsoever. But confusing webmasters as to what's REQUIRED of them and what's simple a good idea is important, too yes? I'd rather have an informed customer than someone who comes to me a week or a month later freaking out because they don't know what their requirements are.

I am not saying it is required by law, but by common sense and experience.

And that is it Im off to the cinema.

[LadyMischief]

This is sort of what I was talking about.. End users not sure of what is required of them. It's important to keep people informed.

[AaronM]

Originally posted by LadyMischief
This is sort of what I was talking about.. End users not sure of what is required of them. It's important to keep people informed.

[sarcasm]Why do that when you can sell content with scare tactics instead?[/sarcasm]

[LadyMischief]

Originally posted by AaronM


[sarcasm]Why do that when you can sell content with scare tactics instead?[/sarcasm]

[Loch]

Dont think it was said anywhere in this thread that wm´s having the id´s was required by law.

I really only saw this thread as a hint with a shovel.
COVER YOUR ASS

As for charly having it in for Aaron?
[08:45] Edited: Paul seems to be trying very hard to discredit you
[08:45] Edited: or at least push the envelope unneccessarily

Watch it Aaron cause that "Edit" guys tounge will be brown for weeks

What a fucking joke this thread has turn into
But very intertaining none the less.

[jact]

You know, it's a known fact as people age they lose their tact.

[PaulSweet]

Originally posted by AaronM


Considering that this is not likely to do a damn thing for the webmasters, I fail to see why you insist on pushing it so hard.

If you want that list...Knock yourself out. Should be easy to list the 5 or so that offer that.

This topic was beat to death a few weeks ago.

I agree.

[Joesho]

sing it with me now...EVERYBODY MUST GET STONED....