CCBill + Microsoft = Impressive.

[goBigtime]

http://www.drmnetworks.com/

Wow.

[chupacabra]

huh... curious to see some more information on this offering as it becomes available; is this more geared towards content suppliers, or for actual paysites to protect their media? i'm not a big fan of the whole DRM use where downloaded media becomes unwatchable after a membership expires..

[mountainmiester]

Chupacabra,

I see where some would not like the idea of having their video expire after time but, the beauty of the DRM Networks system is in its flexibility. It's up to the webmaster to set up whatever works best from very restrictive play to nearly no restrictions at all. The variables are infinite and they work for everyone as it simply creates new business models meaning more way to make money.

Randall
CCBill/DRM Networks

[chupacabra]

The variables are infinite and they work for everyone as it simply creates new business models meaning more way to make money.

Randall, is usage of this new collaboration going to be required for those using ccBill as a processor then? also, i take it CaveCreek is going to have the underlying technology set up first on its servers, yes..?

[Ketadream]

Randall

Can you email me at [email protected]

I'd like to talk to you about DRM

[Kimmykim]

Originally posted by chupacabra
huh... curious to see some more information on this offering as it becomes available; is this more geared towards content suppliers, or for actual paysites to protect their media? i'm not a big fan of the whole DRM use where downloaded media becomes unwatchable after a membership expires..

Personally I LOVE the fact that bandwidth sucking leeches can't skip from trial to trial spending 3 bucks to grab an entire members area from any paysite they choose and then continue to watch it after their subs expire.

Especially if it's teamed with the chance to turn the deadbeat into a paying customer again.

[sextoyking]

I just tried out the demos, Very Cool

[twistyneck]

Has this been cleared by Acacia? They will want to know what CC Bill and Microsoft are doing with their technology.

[Rictor]

Originally posted by twistyneck
Has this been cleared by Acacia? They will want to know what CC Bill and Microsoft are doing with their technology.

Hehe.

[Nysus]

Looks good, though isn't that the same thing as the micro payment thing that someone else just recently released?

Cheers,
Matt

[Interlude]

What demographic is this trying to block? It seems like it'll do a job on the trial-and-leave crowd, but there are so many savvy fucks out there... and it only takes a few to run up bills.

[corvette]

For anybody that is not sure what drmnetworks does, we have a system that encrypts digital media content and limits access to only those people who have acquired a proper license to play the content.

Using it, you have the ability to put rules in place such as:

• A customer can be issued a license to view a collection of movies for 30 days, once the 30 days is up; they have to purchase another license.
  
• A customer can buy ?tokens? to be able to purchase the ability to view particular movies (costing different token amounts) on a site.
  
• A movie clip is distributed and in order to view the clip, a customer has to enter some personal information, such as name and email address

It is simple to use and depending on that amount of licenses, etc, it can cost only a few hundred dollars a month. It is for webmasters that would like to keep their exclusive content "exclusive", which is harder these days with things such as password traders, peer to peer software such as kazaa, etc.

There is a special in April if you process with CCBill; the monthly cost starts at $99. If anybody wants to try it out, email [email protected].

[mountainmiester]

Originally posted by chupacabra


Randall, is usage of this new collaboration going to be required for those using ccBill as a processor then? also, i take it CaveCreek is going to have the underlying technology set up first on its servers, yes..?

Actually, though DRM Networks is a network system set up to CCBill and within the Cavecreek data center, it is an additional offering that is optional. In fact, you don't have to host at CWIE or even process payments to use it.

[goBigtime]

Originally posted by corvett


Using it, you have the ability to put rules in place such as:

• A customer can be issued a license to view a collection of movies for 30 days, once the 30 days is up; they have to purchase another license.
  
• A customer can buy ?tokens? to be able to purchase the ability to view particular movies (costing different token amounts) on a site.
  
• A movie clip is distributed and in order to view the clip, a customer has to enter some personal information, such as name and email address

That's so damn slick.

[gruffy]

Originally posted by goBigtime
That's so damn slick.

Chargeback heaven.

Picture the number of them done out of spite, when you knock on their porn stash like that. Especially if they paid for a 1-3 month membership and you got good money out of them.

[foreverjason]

looks pretty interesting!

[nazgul]

DRM companies working with Microsoft have been around for a while.

My company (sorry for the spam) EmpireDRM is currently integrated into 7 of the major credit card processors on the market including Epoch, Jettis, and yes, CCbill.

We offer an extremly flexible solution that allows you to integrate into ANY hosting, or processing solutions.

Check us out.


http://www.empiredrm.com

I think you will like what you see.

[corvette]

Originally posted by gruffy
Chargeback heaven.

Actually, although this is a relatively new technology, the chargeback rates that we have seen have been normal to lower than average. Personally, I don?t see what is any different about this than anything else out there on the net...as long as it is properly disclosed. Full disclosure?.you market it as fully exclusive material, and this is how it is kept exclusive?

There is a much higher level of control and tracking with drm technologies, and this can be marketed to the customer this way as well

You can see what the customer watched, the time he watched it, where he watched it from, how often he watched it, his computer configuration, etc

Imagine releasing all of your movies on kazaa. The customer downloads a 500 meg file, attempts to watch it and when he clicks on it, it takes him to a purchase page or a site tour with a special affiliate code.

[Thorin]

This dramatically changes the nature of paysites using it. Before a user would pay $20 or $30 to have full access to the material, I doubt there were many surfers out there who weren't saving at least *some* of it from each site. They expected it, they wanted it -- it's what they paid for right? (this excludes people who make a habbit of stealing all the content they can tho) With DRM that expires after a set time the user is no longer paying for the same thing. Now they pay only to view it. Can you justify that the same content is worth the same fee if thier ability to use it is crippled. Can a surfer still justify paying the same membership fee if they know they get nothing once thier membership is over?

Basically this changes the product. Which will change prices, sales, marketing etc.

I'm not saying this is wholly bad, but it's not as simple as "everything is the way it was, but now my content won't get stolen & used inappropriately" It changes *everything* about the paysite model.

[x3m]

I like the idea very much. Pay-per-view with free samples for email addy. hmm... I think I want to try it

[corvette]

Originally posted by Thorin
With DRM that expires after a set time the user is no longer paying for the same thing.

The system is very flexible; you set whatever rules that you wish?.you can set the license to expire after 2 years, you can set it to never expire

The point is that the movie cannot be traded with friends, on kazaa, and so forth?the license is issued to that particular computer and cannot be given out or traded, unless you want it to be

[SandraWang]

Originally posted by corvett


The system is very flexible; you set whatever rules that you wish?.you can set the license to expire after 2 years, you can set it to never expire

The point is that the movie cannot be traded with friends, on kazaa, and so forth?the license is issued to that particular computer and cannot be given out or traded, unless you want it to be

Oh I just got a question... What if a surfer buy a licence to view a video on his computer... And he for some reason reinstalls his computer... What happens then, I guess the licence key would be lost?

[corvette]

Originally posted by SandraWang
Oh I just got a question... What if a surfer buy a license to view a video on his computer... And he for some reason reinstalls his computer... What happens then, I guess the license key would be lost?

Very flexible?you have the option to set the rules. You can set it so that licenses can be backed up and restored, you can set it so that they can?t?and make the decision on your own on whether to reissue a new license to the surfer

I like the idea of having p2p software like kazaa distributing movies with a referral banner to your site at the bottom of the clip, or play a video and pop-up a special tour page afterwards, or quietly collecting email addresses?

The potential to distribute thousands of movie clips, no bandwidth cost

[SandraWang]

I really have to try this out! Sounds awesome...

[gruffy]

Originally posted by corvett


Actually, although this is a relatively new technology, the chargeback rates that we have seen have been normal to lower than average. Personally, I don?t see what is any different about this than anything else out there on the net...as long as it is properly disclosed. Full disclosure?.you market it as fully exclusive material, and this is how it is kept exclusive?

There is a much higher level of control and tracking with drm technologies, and this can be marketed to the customer this way as well

You can see what the customer watched, the time he watched it, where he watched it from, how often he watched it, his computer configuration, etc

Imagine releasing all of your movies on kazaa. The customer downloads a 500 meg file, attempts to watch it and when he clicks on it, it takes him to a purchase page or a site tour with a special affiliate code.

It addresses intentional copying and redistribution quite well. Certainly something worth trying.

Considering how much is misrepresnted in this industry on the join pages and laughable "terms of service" it's not only a potential chargeback nightmare, but legal action territory when you charge people for content and then disable whatever portion they have kept for "personal use".

All the customer has to do is say he didn't see the disclosure.

Looks like more fun for the lawtards and Visa/MC.

-> $$GG money GG$$ <-

[Kimmykim]

Originally posted by Thorin
Basically this changes the product. Which will change prices, sales, marketing etc.

I'm not saying this is wholly bad, but it's not as simple as "everything is the way it was, but now my content won't get stolen & used inappropriately" It changes *everything* about the paysite model.

No, this is not bad, this rocks. It's about time something in the model changed, not just the content.

[Darkystar]

Originally posted by gruffy
when you charge people for content and then disable whatever portion they have kept for "personal use".

you are confusing somethign here, we are not selling content - we are selling memberships, membership gives members access to content. No membership - no content.

[Kimmykim]

Originally posted by Darkystar


you are confusing somethign here, we are not selling content - we are selling memberships, membership gives members access to content. No membership - no content.

I agree 100%. Where does it say that you can keep stuff for personal use in the terms of most paysites?

[Fletch XXX]

impressive is battling the eras knowing your fathers were wiped out by roman catholic blood, feeling the cries of your ancestors pulse through your blood, knowing one day their shield will not be able to withstand the force of the last battalions.

one day, we will paint the atlantic red with christian blood.

and THAT will be impressive.

[Carrie]

Originally posted by Thorin
Can a surfer still justify paying the same membership fee if they know they get nothing once thier membership is over?

*blink*
Hello? You're kidding, right??
Once your membership with AAA has expired, do you still expect them to come tow your car? No.
Once your membership to the gym has expired, can you still use the equipment? No.
If you don't pay your cable bill, do you still get HBO? No...

And surfers who aren't paying for our sites anymore shouldn't be able to access our content, period.
That's why it's called a membership, not a purchase.
They're paying for access to the content, not ownership of the content.

[gruffy]

Originally posted by Darkystar


you are confusing somethign here, we are not selling content - we are selling memberships, membership gives members access to content. No membership - no content.

You are selling a membership for the purposes of accessing content. If you say the content is downloadable anywhere which it is by its nature then you have a problem.

Better cautiously reword the entire site and entire marketing scheme and be sure to tell your affiliates to be very carefull.

Full disclosure and terms of service are great but they won't stand up in other countries, or even different states. Most won't even stand up anywhere because they are not visible or properly written.

Nice in theory though.

[cafeaulait]

Please give some indication of pricing, I take it you host the movies so whats the price based on storage, usage ? Please give some tiers. You mentioned $99 above what's does this give?

G

[corvette]

gruffy,

Sorry for the delayed response?

Like I had mentioned above, you can make whatever choices that you want.
You can set a rule that the license to view the content will never expire?it can only be viewed from that particular computers configuration, thus it cannot be traded. The choice is up to you what you want to do with it?using drmnetworks does not mean that licensing period = membership period, although it can if you want

It comes down to control over your content?you can spend a large amount of money amassing fully exclusive content for your site, only to have the customer download it into their kazaa folder and one copy turns into 10,000 in a week, or another webmaster gets hold of it and places it in their members area, or even the surfer giving his password out to friends and they are now in the site and have access to the movies.

Type in any one of 10 adult keywords into kazaa and see what pulls up?expand your search results to 200 and try it again

When it is your business, you set the rules?if the customer wants to see your content; they need to play by your rules. You have a right to protect your content and its value. As long as you properly disclose how your business runs, then I don?t expect there to be any problems.


Cafeaulait,

The pricing comes down to 2 things, packaging and licensing. Basically, you package the content that you want protected, and you have the ability to issue licenses, both manually and automatically.

Packaging is the volume of content you want to protect?depending on the volume packaged, rates are as low as $10 per gig

Licensing is how many licenses you want to issue to customers?the $99 special rate that I had mentioned was for issuing up to 50,000 licenses over a months time.

As far as the hosting goes, Cavecreek can host the movies and stream them for you, or you can work with any good host to do so.

[Thorin]

Originally posted by Carrie

*blink*
Hello? You're kidding, right??
Once your membership with AAA has expired, do you still expect them to come tow your car? No.

*That's* the problem right now you arn't selling a membership -- you *are* selling content. Just because you think you're selling memberships doesn't mean you are.

When you buy a Hustler at the store they don't come and take it away when the month is up, they don't send officers to your house to keep you from passing it to a friend, and the fold out sections arn't called pin ups for no reason.
When you buy a porn video it doesn't stop working after a set time, it isn't only set to work on one TV, and again you are free to pass it to a friend.

The Internet pay site works on the same model, because it allows users to save basically any content they want & use it any way they want right now. That's the model that users expect. DRM changes that.

There are some paysites that are selling memberships, but most really really arn't. Thier rebilling members stick around for new content -- like a magazine subscription. Most pay sites arn't a service, they're a product.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not here to bash DRM I'm just saying it *changes* things.

[Kimmykim]

Originally posted by Thorin
Don't get me wrong, I'm not here to bash DRM I'm just saying it *changes* things.

Yes, it does, in the best of ways. Some sites may have to update their disclosure if they decide to utilize it from any of the companies out there, but at the end of the day the disclosure is where it will hinge.

Judges do tend to reinforce mea culpa and the fine print, so long as they are accessible to the consumer prior to purchase.

I also can't stop laughing at the prospect of a few people that are pissed off that their 4 buck contribution didnt assure them porn in perpetuity going before a judge and complaining.

[The Machine]

Funny - it looks as if some people are not in this business to make money.

[corvette]

Originally posted by Thorin
Don't get me wrong, I'm not here to bash DRM I'm just saying it *changes* things.

Certainly does?

Fletch, that?s very impressive

[mrthumbs]

Originally posted by The Machine
Funny - it looks as if some people are not in this business to make money.

exactly

[nazgul]

DRM is most certainly the future of internet offerings.

Not only does it protect your content, but it allows you to decrease bandwidth costs, and provide flexible pricing models.

Imagine diffrent pricing models for memberships that varried in length. Give surfers the ability to access your site for 3, 4, or 5 days rather than 30, and make sure they don't take your content with them when they are gone

The beauty of DRM is that you manage the content no matter where it lives. It also smartens up your sales stats to tell you exactly what files have been viewed, how many times, and by what users.

DRM also increase the ease in which you can syndicate your content. You can distribute your protected content to an affilate, and if you ever have an issues, you can shut them off.


DRM is the next step. I have been in the DRM industry since its inception, and it is just now getting to a place where it is becomming completely viable.

I would be more than happy to help anyone learn about DRM.

See my Sig

Naz

[extreme]

If you can view it you can steal it.

What this does is open a new market for "NO DRM" sites.
The amount of "control" some seem to think they should have over their customers is scary ...

Good luck to those who wish to go for it but still understand that the customer did not give you those $40 without expecting to get something out of the deal.

[The Machine]

Originally posted by extreme
If you can view it you can steal it.

What this does is open a new market for "NO DRM" sites.
The amount of "control" some seem to think they should have over their customers is scary ...

Good luck to those who wish to go for it but still understand that the customer did not give you those $40 without expecting to get something out of the deal.

It's not about control, it's about revenue.

And when the surfer pays a monthly membership fee they get to view the content for a month - isn't that the idea? Where does it say that they should be able to keep the content and watch it indefinitely? They can, of course, if they remain members of the paysite. That's the beauty of it.

[nazgul]

It is ALL about revenue.

DRM gives you the ability to increase revenue through new ways of marketing your content, and decrease cost as it ELIMIATES

Password Trading, Content Theft, and reduces your bandwidth.

NAz

[corvette]

Unless your content is protected, one customer, perhaps even signing up for a free trial to your site, can download your movies and distribute them to thousands of other people on the internet, diluting the value of those movies

It is a necessary change that was a result of the availability and mass distribution of software such napster, aimster, morpheus, kazaa, not to mention others.

Do you want them to go to your site to buy a membership/license to view the movies, or download them off of kazaa?

[gruffy]

Originally posted by Kimmykim

Judges do tend to reinforce mea culpa and the fine print, so long as they are accessible to the consumer prior to purchase.

Yes, go before a judge on the record and say it was in the terms, right underneath the "Join now to see this jizz coated fuck slut reamed in the ass until she cries" link. It will make for some compelling legal drama.

[extreme]

Originally posted by The Machine


It's not about control, it's about revenue.

And when the surfer pays a monthly membership fee they get to view the content for a month - isn't that the idea? Where does it say that they should be able to keep the content and watch it indefinitely? They can, of course, if they remain members of the paysite. That's the beauty of it.

Same thing basically, a blackmail of sorts.
You better renew, otherwise you loose what you downloaded. Whats on your harddrive.

I agree with it in principle, especially for chargebackers and trials.

But for me, I know it'll totally wipe out conversions. The customers will decide it's much better to pay for something where you get a product you can keep.

Where it says they should be able to view the content forever? Copyright law and Fair Use more or less says that.

It doesnt give them any RIGHT to do so though. So DRM is perfectly ok in theory, but really, what does the customer gain?
Those who think the surfer will signup again when he notices he can't view his movies are naive I think. He'll just never signup to a paysite again.

Why would he not go with your no DRM competitor? The only ones who will benefit from this is CCBill and Microsoft I think.

It's the surfers money in the beginning after all. Unfortunately the having a "Good Product" part has been completely missed by lots of paysites...

[The Machine]

Originally posted by corvett
Unless your content is protected, one customer, perhaps even signing up for a free trial to your site, can download your movies and distribute them to thousands of other people on the internet...

Exactly. Plus, everybody is complaining about low retention. The thing is, even if you have quality content that the surfer likes, why should they recur when they buy a trial, download all the videos for later viewing, cancel the membership and move on to the next paysite where the process is repeated.

[extreme]

Originally posted by corvett
Unless your content is protected, one customer, perhaps even signing up for a free trial to your site, can download your movies and distribute them to thousands of other people on the internet, diluting the value of those movies

It is a necessary change that was a result of the availability and mass distribution of software such napster, aimster, morpheus, kazaa, not to mention others.

Do you want them to go to your site to buy a membership/license to view the movies, or download them off of kazaa?

You know full well they will still be able to do that. Deceptive marketing at its best. Or perhaps it's the part Microsoft did not talk about?

Anything a user can view on his screen can be copied perfectly, atleast until Palladium arrives.

[nazgul]

I keep hearing that webmasters are worried about surfers not adopting to this platform. The fact is that surfers are adopting to this quite readily. We have some of the biggest names in the industry working with our soltuion, and have more in the pipeline.

The response they are getting from their surfers is amazing, because surfers are no longer being foreced to buy a month long membership.

If you think about it, if I buy a subscription to the GYM do I get to keep the equiment? If I rent 5 movies at BlockBuster, do I get to keep the tape. The fact of the matter is this model has already proven itself. Think of it as creating your own online block buster, where you can sell to people who are not even monthly members!!!!!

NAz

[gruffy]

Originally posted by extreme

Those who think the surfer will signup again when he notices he can't view his movies are naive I think. He'll just never signup to a paysite again.

How many former paying customers are going to be generating positive publicity for you when this happens?

[gruffy]

Originally posted by extreme


You know full well they will still be able to do that. Deceptive marketing at its best. Or perhaps it's the part Microsoft did not talk about?

Anything a user can view on his screen can be copied perfectly, atleast until Palladium arrives.

VOD Rippers are allready quite popular.

http://www.afterdawn.com/software/vi...eambox_vcr.cfm