Terrorist War

[Hot Tropical Babes]

One of the things I do not understand after watching the news and reading many posts is this:
I do not understand why there are "some" people who are not wanting to stand up against these terrorists. I can see our leaders treading very carefully, and taking it slow in order to do the right thing. What we need to understand is that this war is within our borders and we cannot see the opposing forces.
It seems to me the USA has been there when other countries have needed help, at least trying to keep peace. I am horrified at the things I have now seen in my life time, and even more horrified at what our children will see in theirs. I ask myself, What can we do? What can I do?
The out pouring of love and aid from other countries has been very comforting. I am sure if another country were in the same situation, USA would would be there to assist.
For every American reading this post I urge you to stand behind our leaders and pray they make the right decisions, and especially stand behind our armed forces.
I would love to see every home in America flying "Old Glory", and in every way possible giving a public display that we support our country and are NOT going to let these bastards create havoc and destruction any more. I would like to see other opinions on what you think we could do, and how you are feeling about this. I am very troubled over this, as I know others are also.
I say to those living outside the US, This could happen anywhere, and if we dont all work together, it WILL happen again, no telling where.

[richard123]

There are loads of people that have been involved with, and studied the "situation" in the Middle East and elsewhere for decades.

Some of these "experts" are saying that maybe a war will not lead to lasting peace. Or peace at all. So, assuming we all want peace, we should probably listen to what they are saying.

The politicians are obviously giving a fair bit of thought to it. That's probably a good thing. As far as citizens around the world, maybe they (we) should be demanding an end to the insanity. Via non-violent means. Without more dead (whether soldiers or civilians).

Who knows?

[tenletters]

Ask yourself this Richard... what would you do if terrorists placed a pipe bomb into the ass of your favorite relative and then... lit the fuse?

KABOOM ! Who knows indeed!

Originally posted by richard123:


Who knows?

[richard123]

tenletters,

You know as well as I do how I would react. And you know what would happen to me when the law caught up with me. The point is, I think, that we're not looking at countries/states/organisations as kids in a playground. There is a LOT at stake here. The first, most obvious solution may not be the right one.

But then again, as I said (or at least implied): There are many many people with more knowledge than me that will make the decisions. I'd hate to be George Bush right now. How could you possibly satisfy the "need" for bloody revenge while at the same time avoid starting something too big?

[tenletters]

I thought that would be your reaction to the relative comment.

Okay, now ponder this...

That same person who killed your relative also went back to your family reunion and killed everyone there.

That person then went back to his neighborhood.

His neighborhood then went on TV saying how cool it was that your family was dead and that if you come there.. you're next!

Would you
A) Kill them all!
or
B) Would you kill him and any of his neighbors that attacked you while you were trying to get him?
or
C)Would you kill noone and wait for them to get you?

[Gemini]

Having tons of discussion won't go anywhere. Covert Ops will be doing the majority of this and no one will hear of it. Just pray the ghosts are with the power when they need it most.

Sit still tho? Doubtful

[tenletters]

I better go ahead and say that I choose B.

Reason? I know there are innocent people that don't share the fucked up values of the bastards. I also couldn't just sit by and let it happen again!

Osama, in my opinion, needs to be taken out. As does those that would fight for his stupid ass. The innocents over there I hope do not end up like those lost in our recent attack.

[tenletters]

Hi Gem! You doing okay?

I was going to mention that nothing on this board will change the outcome now.

Being covert will be hard when the News reports about the smell even before the president farts.

Originally posted by Gemini:
Having tons of discussion won't go anywhere. Covert Ops will be doing the majority of this and no one will hear of it. Just pray the ghosts are with the power when they need it most.

Sit still tho? Doubtful

[Gemini]

Armed and dangerous as usual 10. There are things that happen every day that are never known and this will be no different. Bush may say one thing but the powers that really decide how the things are done do as the want. The President is cheif in name yes, but he doesn't have the skills to make the real plans.

If he were in charge totally, we'd be packed and building a cabin in the Yukon by now. Well might have to stop and taunt Elvis abit on the way. lol None of our Presidents for at least 60 yrs have had enough experience to even attempt to discuss the actual strategies. They don't have a clue.

[tenletters]

So you're saying that it's not the president that is doing all the farting?

LOL

Yukon does seem kinda fun... ya'll need a wing man? Well, I'm more of an ass man (no comments from the peanut gallery).

[Gemini]

Always can use a good wing man. As long as you can cook. I certainly can't since there are no phones to order out up there!
Oh and better get your gas gear ordered up too! They are all running out. lol

Never on ICQ anymore 10?

[tenletters]

Something is wrong with my PC and ICQ only drags it down further.... I hope I get a new one Thursday (my birthday wahooo).

Then again all I got last year was spit on, after the swallow attempt failed! hehe

[Gemini]

So fix it! These things aren't throwaways. Everyone should be able to fix their own puters in this business.

[richard123]

Originally posted by tenletters:

Would you
A) Kill them all!
or
B) Would you kill him and any of his neighbors that attacked you while you were trying to get him?
or
C)Would you kill noone and wait for them to get you?

Look, I don't wanna get into some hypothetical argument here (or any other, really), but how about this:

Get the bastards on the phone and ask them what the hell their problem is?

Of course you can't just sit there like a lame duck.

It's be nice to have some little book or something where we could look up all the answers to this stuff.

So here's my hypothetical:

What if George Bush kills Bin Laden and Bin Laden becomes a martyr? We know muslims are very big on martyrs. Every time a Palestinian is killed (regardless of who he/she was) he is declared a martyr.

Chances are this would result thousands upon thousands of people hating the USA (and the West generally) even more. Yes? No? What would they do?

Also: If Bin Laden's people did this, they would surely have had the forethought to play out a few scenarios. No matter what is done, they are already prepared.

For those reasons, I'd say get the bastards on the phone and start talking to them. Maybe Bush os already doing that right now..?

[AWC]

Are we supposed to ignore this attack and just bend over and take it up the Sears Tower?

I think not...

If we take out bin Laden... there will be a 1000 other fools to rise up and wannabe a terrorist playa... EVENTUALLY... they will get the message in 5-10 years... that there is not a place for terrorists in a civilized world.

Sometimes... yah gotta do wottcha gotta do and if the rest of the world disagrees... they can go fuck themselves.

[Sjayne]

I guess what scares and confuses me is : what is the 'end game' of this war?

Its not like other wars where the other side was trying to gain territory and the end of the war was getting them to retreat and stop trying to claim that land.

Is it to kill Bin Laden? If we do that is the war over? But that leaves ..from what I recently read..52 countries around the world that have people with links to the taliban livining in their countries. Will it all stop when he is dead? Surely not..these people still belive what they belive and we have just killed their leader..giving them cause for 'revenge'.

What is the end goal of this war? How will we know when it is over?

[richard123]

Originally posted by Sjayne:

What is the end goal of this war? How will we know when it is over?

If this war gets physical, it'll only be over when everyone is dead. That's my prediction anyway. Could take 5 or 50 years, but that's where it'll end.

[Hot Tropical Babes]

Originally posted by Sjayne:
I guess what scares and confuses me is : what is the 'end game' of this war?

Its not like other wars where the other side was trying to gain territory and the end of the war was getting them to retreat and stop trying to claim that land.

Is it to kill Bin Laden? If we do that is the war over? But that leaves ..from what I recently read..52 countries around the world that have people with links to the taliban livining in their countries. Will it all stop when he is dead? Surely not..these people still belive what they belive and we have just killed their leader..giving them cause for 'revenge'.

What is the end goal of this war? How will we know when it is over?

[/B]

Very Good Point Sjayne. I am thinking that also. Note, I do want to see him dead, no one should live after causing so much death and destruction. I have seen on the news his training camps. I wish they would bomb those every chance they have. Also if other countries would stop sending supplies and supporting them maybe the leaders would become hungry and oust him and his followers. But look at what has happened. The very people who flew the planes, studied right here in the state I live. Some of them were illegally here to begin with. Some were on a terrorist watch. One flight school instructer stated "they wanted only to know how to fly a boeing, but they didnt want to learn how to land" That makes you go Hmmmmm... We need to get tougher. Bottom Line.

[Lane]

i must say that i totally agree with richard123.
you war fanatics dont have a less violent mind than the terrorists do.
i hope this is gonna be solved with special operations, by punishing only the responsible people.
neither war nor the special operations can solve the terrorism problem. furthermore, war would be just putting more fuel into the fire.
its a much more complicated and political process how to prevent the further attacks and make the world a safer place. i hope the leaders will make the right decisions towards this goal, which is not going to involve any wars.


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[Amputate Your Head]

Originally posted by Lane:
you war fanatics dont have a less violent mind than the terrorists do.

I will take a step forward and say I can agree with this. Perhaps it is not less violent. Some may even be MORE violent.

BUT.... how, when, and why that violence is applied makes a very big difference.

A child may be violent. He may get a thrill from strangling squirrels. This can't be a good thing.

A parent may also be violent. He may lay the hand of vengeance down upon someone that attempts to kidnap his child.

So you can't really compare the mind of a terrorist to every other violent person based only on violence. The same as you wouldn't say, terrorists are happy.... other people are happy.... they have the same mind.

It's ridiculous.

(and before we get into a big ass argument about what you did and did not say.... I know you didn't say they had the same mind. But it was pretty close to that.)

[Hot Tropical Babes]

I really dont want to see pissing matches. I would love to see opinions of people, especially Americans on how we are reacting to this, also what we are doing to contribute. What is your "way" of showing patriotism?
So far we have heard many different ways to kill ladin. we have expressed many ideas of what our country should or should not do. Now I would like to see some "postive" feed back. anyone else?

[Lane]

Originally posted by Amputate Your Head:

A parent may also be violent. He may lay the hand of vengeance down upon someone that attempts to kidnap his child.

This can be an example to killing or punishing Bin Laden (or whoever is responsible), which i support too..

if a parent's child is kidnapped and he/she knows that the kidnapper is living in an apartment building (not with the child) , is it the right thing to do to drop a bomb on the building and endanger the lives of other people who live there? or to call the cops and let them get in the building and get the responsible person out of there and punish him?

this can be the right example for the current situation. you want to drop a bomb on the building because some of the other poeple who live in the building are friends of the guilty person, and/or support his act, while there are also many people who dont have anything to do with it.

before playing word games, please choose the right examples that applies to the current situation..



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[Amputate Your Head]

Originally posted by Lane:
before playing word games, please choose the right examples that applies to the current situation..

Okay... Bin Laden didn't kidnap our child. He killed it. Is that a more fitting example?

Now. If that's my child... oh there's gonna be violence alright.

[Lane]

Originally posted by Amputate Your Head:
Now. If that's my child... oh there's gonna be violence alright.

i see your point. so according to my example you would be the one choosing the option to drop a bomb on the building.

sorry, i cant agree with that no matter what that persons guilt is. i would prefer the cops to get in there and beat the shit out of him without touching others.



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[shunga]

Originally posted by Lane:
i cant agree with that no matter what that persons guilt is. i would prefer the cops to get in there and beat the shit out of him without touching others.

Cops go in, bad guys resist, bystanders are caught in the crossfire. Whatever you do, innocent people will die, but we ALWAYS look to reduce their exposure. That's the difference between us and them.

[angleaous]

Originally posted by Hot Tropical Babes:
I really dont want to see pissing matches. I would love to see opinions of people, especially Americans on how we are reacting to this, also what we are doing to contribute. What is your "way" of showing patriotism?
So far we have heard many different ways to kill ladin. we have expressed many ideas of what our country should or should not do. Now I would like to see some "postive" feed back. anyone else?

i know im not american, but alot of people
are collecting money, to support the firemen
and famalies that have suffered in the
tragic events in america, theres not alot
any of us can do regarding the war on
terrorism thats for the goverments and army
to sort out now, so perhaps we should
consentrate on helping where we can
do some good support and cheer the
firemen and people helping to clear up
the mess left behind and pray that
they might still find survivors

god bless america and
and every body all over
the world who lost
freinds and family

[Vengeance]

Originally posted by Lane:
you would be the one choosing the option to drop a bomb on the building.

Bombs are to good for them.

They must burn. In painful agony.