Another Program changes Effective Immediately

[blonda80]

I got the email five times so I think I must share it ... 20% revshare + invite only!


Major Affiliate program changes Effective Immediately
Effective immediately!! I'm removing all non active affiliates from the program. If you have not sent traffic during this month, your account will be terminated. The affiliate program is, starting today, Invite only until further notice. The anotherprogram.com domain (Affiliate program) is being taken offline and no further affiliate signups will be taken. In reviewing the current industry turn for the worse, in part from tube sites and other avenues of unlimited free porn, unauthorized use and outright theft, I find that the 50% signup and recurring models no longer work. Any new affiliate allowed to signup to the program will be 20% signup and recurring unless otherwise negotiated. Current affiliates that maintain at least 10 sales a month will remain at 50% signup and recurring, anything less will be changed to 20%. signup and recurring. ALL extremehole promotional material already in use MUST be CLEARLY watermarked to Extremehole.com and any link from that material is required to go directly to Extremehole.com New promotional materials will only be accessible via direct communication with me. I will provide a secure link to the approved affiliate material. ANY use of materials I have not specifically approved of or and materials used in a manner that does not follow my guidelines will result in immediate termination from the program and forfeit of any commissions.

[Agent 488]

who the hell is that?

[lazycash]

Your post is worthless, why would you not name the affiliate program?

[blonda80]

lazycash i believe i said already ANOTHER PROGRAM

[Agent 488]

................................

[Agent 488]

extremehole? doesn't that guy post here?

[Iron Fist]

Someone didn't get laid last night.... glad I don't promote them.

[Agent 488]

20% revshare. congrats to the losers.

[blonda80]

is a ccbill sponsor...

[Chosen]

20% revshare. congrats to the losers.

[Barefootsies]

20% revshare. congrats to the losers.

[SteveHardeman]

lazycash i believe i said already ANOTHER PROGRAM

Dude, what's mine say?
Sweet, what's mine say?
Dude, what's mine say?
Sweet, what's mine say?

[Wizzo]

I'm sure that will bring in the shrinking pool of quality affiliates left out there...

[Gerco]

The entire affiliate program industry wide is broken, and has been for some time. You know that as well as I do. When I started out everyone was doing 20% recurring... then people offered 30% and on and on all trying to beat out the other guys. This worked fine when sales where easy and everyone was making money hand over fist, but times have changed. Everyone is scraping buy and soon your only going to be left with the multi corps of porn, when that happens... what do you think the payouts going to be?

Tell me, how many single sites do you see left right now? How many new ones do you see starting up? Well, I've been here for over 10 years now, and will go down fighting, but as it is, it's a battle I'm not going to win. Seeing the skinning of GFY by
the tubes has shown me that.

As I stated in the email, I will work will current affiliates and even new ones on a case by case bases but I'm only going to be taking new affiliate signups personally from now on. (Actually the change is happening now with the anotherprogram.com domain going off and no new affiliate will be allowed to join until WMS is running over at Ccbill. Even then the actual signup forum will be mailed by me directly and not accessible via the web)

Sure, other programs are going to offer higher % payouts for a time and they are going to get every tom dick and harry pushing them, but when the stats are 1:8000 or higher are you really making more?

By doing what I'm doing I'm actually helping the people actively pushing me. There is FAR less competition between affiliates and everyones ratios can stay low. Will I make less? Most likely. But the sites at a point where things have got to change or there will not be a site to promote period. I'm sorry if you can't see my point of view on this and I hope we can work it out but you have to do what you have to do also.

[BradM]

Gerco,
Good for you for being honest anyway. This is your business and no one really has a right to tell you how to run it. I doubt 99% of people who bitch even have heard of your program. So fuck 'em.

[wargames]

20% revshare. congrats to the losers.

[Gerco]

Gerco,
Good for you for being honest anyway. This is your business and no one really has a right to tell you how to run it. I doubt 99% of people who bitch even have heard of your program. So fuck 'em.

Been posting here for many many years... going to the shows etc, doubt more than a dozen people in this industry total could even pick me out of the crowd.

A few things I do have to say...

I've never done popups.
I've never spam mailed.
I've never carded a member.
I've never been shady or dishonest
I've never stoled anything

In ten years I have ran a solid honest 1 man show. I built it from the ground up with little to no help from anyone being told it could not be done. What ever the outcome I can hold my head up high and point to it for the rest of my life and say I did it. I may not be driving a yacht when I do it, but I'm happy with what I have.

[NaughtyRob]

I think instead of offering 20% which is a fucking joke, you might as well yank ALL affiliates because nobody will promote you after this anyway.

[plsureking]

By doing what I'm doing I'm actually helping the people actively pushing me.

i think its brave and probably right.

problem is you'll get shunned because the big spam and blind upsell networks have the ear of the affiliate community with their crazy PPS schemes. as the PPS programs start to fail, and the small timers realize 50% minus expenses doesnt pay for shit, the rest of the industry will match you.

plan to do all your marketing yourself til that happens.

[stever]

just delete your entire webmasters area and redirect it to another program that pays you 10% of webmaster referrals - you will make more!

[wyldblyss]

Times are tough. Some programs will have to make changes that people aren't going to like.

[NaughtyRob]

Wrong, www.getnaughtycash.com is my program and "small time" and we have offered 60% from the beginning and will never change it.

i think its brave and probably right.

problem is you'll get shunned because the big spam and blind upsell networks have the ear of the affiliate community with their crazy PPS schemes. as the PPS programs start to fail, and the small timers realize 50% minus expenses doesnt pay for shit, the rest of the industry will match you.

plan to do all your marketing yourself til that happens.

[Gerco]

i think its brave and probably right.

problem is you'll get shunned because the big spam and blind upsell networks have the ear of the affiliate community with their crazy PPS schemes. as the PPS programs start to fail, and the small timers realize 50% minus expenses doesnt pay for shit, the rest of the industry will match you.

plan to do all your marketing yourself til that happens.

If I get shunned I get shunned. Meanwhile, the bulk of those that are pushing me still do under 1:500. So, people can continue to push there 1:8000+ at 50% and pretend that they are doing great with those ratios.

[Gerco]

Wrong, www.getnaughtycash.com is my program and "small time" and we have offered 60% from the beginning and will never change it.

Wow... your program came on in 2005? in the height of all the scrambling, raising payouts etc? I had been online almost 6 years by then... You just started where everyone else ended up. So, how does this invalidate what I said in the first place?

But if you feel you need to push your program in this thread so be it.

[D Ghost]

20% revshare. congrats to the losers.

[Gerco]

Oh and the Email was sent via Ccbill... so I have no idea why it was sent so many times. I got it 6 times myself... ?

So emails to be about that are kind of pointless as it was not my script.

[Iron Fist]

If I get shunned I get shunned. Meanwhile, the bulk of those that are pushing me still do under 1:500. So, people can continue to push there 1:8000+ at 50% and pretend that they are doing great with those ratios.

Well duh, they are doing 1:500 with 30% more revenue right now.. you take away 30% of my paycheque and i'm looking for another employer... it's that simple.

But like others have said it your business. Good luck with it. When everyone is paying 20% like you claim they will be, then i'll sing a different tune, until then... enjoy

[BVF]

If I get shunned I get shunned. Meanwhile, the bulk of those that are pushing me still do under 1:500. So, people can continue to push there 1:8000+ at 50% and pretend that they are doing great with those ratios.

You know I'm on your side, as I am also a single site owner making a living from it so you know I'm not trying to be an asshole....But three minute sample videos on your tour? That's gotta be yanking a lot of bandwidth.....

I have 9 updates at a time on my page and I used to have a sample video for every update....But now, I just put the sample up for the most recent update....Maybe you could do the same and trim some of your costs.

I hope everything works out for you.....It's hard to see someone like me out here having problems like that.

[Gerco]

20% revshare. congrats to the losers.

Yes, remember that as some other program doing high pps and % shuts it's doors quietly and keeps your cash in the process... anyone care to make a list of them so far this year?

[pr0]

The entire affiliate program industry wide is broken, and has been for some time. You know that as well as I do. When I started out everyone was doing 20% recurring... then people offered 30% and on and on all trying to beat out the other guys. This worked fine when sales where easy and everyone was making money hand over fist, but times have changed. Everyone is scraping buy and soon your only going to be left with the multi corps of porn, when that happens... what do you think the payouts going to be?

Tell me, how many single sites do you see left right now? How many new ones do you see starting up? Well, I've been here for over 10 years now, and will go down fighting, but as it is, it's a battle I'm not going to win. Seeing the skinning of GFY by
the tubes has shown me that.

As I stated in the email, I will work will current affiliates and even new ones on a case by case bases but I'm only going to be taking new affiliate signups personally from now on. (Actually the change is happening now with the anotherprogram.com domain going off and no new affiliate will be allowed to join until WMS is running over at Ccbill. Even then the actual signup forum will be mailed by me directly and not accessible via the web)

Sure, other programs are going to offer higher % payouts for a time and they are going to get every tom dick and harry pushing them, but when the stats are 1:8000 or higher are you really making more?

By doing what I'm doing I'm actually helping the people actively pushing me. There is FAR less competition between affiliates and everyones ratios can stay low. Will I make less? Most likely. But the sites at a point where things have got to change or there will not be a site to promote period. I'm sorry if you can't see my point of view on this and I hope we can work it out but you have to do what you have to do also.

So 50% just isn't enough for you anymore eh? Even though you would have never made the sale in the first place, without the affiliate.

You make ZERO sense taking this out on affiliates.

I don't really care, I don't push extreme porn. If you don't switch every webmaster back to 50% once they contact you. Don't be surprised if they all post on gfy

[BVF]

By the way, I'm staying at 60%....Affiliate sales have saved my ass during more than one payweek.

[Barefootsies]

20% converting at 1:100/250/500 is still more money then 1/5000+

[Gerco]

You know I'm on your side, as I am also a single site owner making a living from it so you know I'm not trying to be an asshole....But three minute sample videos on your tour? That's gotta be yanking a lot of bandwidth.....

I have 9 updates at a time on my page and I used to have a sample video for every update....But now, I just put the sample up for the most recent update....Maybe you could do the same and trim some of your costs.

I hope everything works out for you.....It's hard to see someone like me out here having problems like that.

Actually, the bandwidth costs on those videos is lower than my old tour, I think mainly due to them being streamed using wowza. My cost are not really going to change, I buy a set amount of bandwidth from Mojohost and always stay under it. My server costs currently are actually lower than what I had been paying for the last 5 years.

BUT if you factor in affiliate script rentals etc... the cost more than doubles. Add that to the fact that I'm small, I don't have a merchant account and have never been able to get one, so I'm still getting nailed for the 13% on each transaction. You start adding everything up and quickly find out how there is no way your going to be able to support the high payouts anymore.

One thing the site has always had going for it was it's nitch. People can argue all they want but looking at the fact that over 70% of my sales come from non affiliates, and have since I started the site, and I do ZERO marketing... it tells me that I will survive (maybe with less) but survive none the less.

This is not some greedy money grab I'm trying to do here. It's a reality check.

[Iron Fist]

By the way, I'm staying at 60%....Affiliate sales have saved my ass during more than one payweek.

Isn't that interesting.

[Gerco]

So 50% just isn't enough for you anymore eh? Even though you would have never made the sale in the first place, without the affiliate.

You make ZERO sense taking this out on affiliates.

I don't really care, I don't push extreme porn. If you don't switch every webmaster back to 50% once they contact you. Don't be surprised if they all post on gfy

So what's your point? You don't push me. So really you have no idea what your talking about. I think I have stated my case pretty clear. The day you honestly think that the webmaster is making 50% of a 50-50 split in revshare is the day I want some of what your smoking.

[pr0]

As a small program, closing your doors to new affiliates is not going to lower your ratio's or create any less competition.

In fact, today, with this post on GFY. You picked the worst day ever to have your program closed & the revshare % dropped.

You probably would have picked up 10 new webmasters (minimum)

[Gerco]

20% converting at 1:100/250/500 is still more money then 1/5000+

Thank you...

[Gerco]

As a small program, closing your doors to new affiliates is not going to lower your ratio's or create any less competition.

In fact, today, with this post on GFY. You picked the worst day ever to have your program closed & the revshare % dropped.

You probably would have picked up 10 new webmasters (minimum)

Anyones free to mail me if they want to push my stuff. But no longer is it going to be a free for all where just any joe surfer can signup for an affiliate account and pull all my promo stuff for free. I have right now about 1.5 gigs of promo content. When CCbills WMS finishes up it will be available there but you will still have to email me directly and show me that your real before I email back the join form.

[Agent 488]

on the contrary i am being pushed to "mega corp" sponsors to promote because they are getting to be the only ones who pay and pay on time now. for me it's been the little guys who fuck over the affiliate before disappearing with the $ ...

good luck anyway.

Yes, remember that as some other program doing high pps and % shuts it's doors quietly and keeps your cash in the process... anyone care to make a list of them so far this year?

[Jimmy Rock]

The entire affiliate program industry wide is broken, and has been for some time. You know that as well as I do. When I started out everyone was doing 20% recurring... then people offered 30% and on and on all trying to beat out the other guys. This worked fine when sales where easy and everyone was making money hand over fist, but times have changed. Everyone is scraping buy and soon your only going to be left with the multi corps of porn, when that happens... what do you think the payouts going to be?

Tell me, how many single sites do you see left right now? How many new ones do you see starting up? Well, I've been here for over 10 years now, and will go down fighting, but as it is, it's a battle I'm not going to win. Seeing the skinning of GFY by
the tubes has shown me that.

As I stated in the email, I will work will current affiliates and even new ones on a case by case bases but I'm only going to be taking new affiliate signups personally from now on. (Actually the change is happening now with the anotherprogram.com domain going off and no new affiliate will be allowed to join until WMS is running over at Ccbill. Even then the actual signup forum will be mailed by me directly and not accessible via the web)

Sure, other programs are going to offer higher % payouts for a time and they are going to get every tom dick and harry pushing them, but when the stats are 1:8000 or higher are you really making more?

By doing what I'm doing I'm actually helping the people actively pushing me. There is FAR less competition between affiliates and everyones ratios can stay low. Will I make less? Most likely. But the sites at a point where things have got to change or there will not be a site to promote period. I'm sorry if you can't see my point of view on this and I hope we can work it out but you have to do what you have to do also.

I agree with you!

[Barefootsies]

Thank you...

No problem.

If you know how to SELL your niche and make conversions, then even at 20%, you should make more money.

Exhibit A.
http://www.gfy.com/showthread.php?t=928357

On 400-600 UV barely pushed to the site it had kick ass ratios over 3 months, and conversions. However, I know how to SELL the niche. So for me, I am not buying traffic to push a billion hits, nor ad spots, so my expenses are labor, and minimal promotion and support. But I am converting like a mofo.

Not everyone knows how to SELL a niche and make conversions. But those who do can capitalize on good content that sells well instead of chasing the same tail with over saturated content, and the 10,000 other desperado's trying to outspend each other on the same traffic, chasing the same customers.

A little tip for you. You will never outspend the programs.

[Gerco]

on the contrary i am being pushed to "mega corp" sponsors to promote because they are getting to be the only ones who pay and pay on time now. for me it's been the little guys who fuck over the affiliate before disappearing with the $ ...

good luck anyway.

Um, hello? I'm ccbill based. They cut the checks and mail them out... your saying they are not dependable?

[BVF]

BUT if you factor in affiliate script rentals etc... the cost more than doubles. Add that to the fact that I'm small, I don't have a merchant account and have never been able to get one, so I'm still getting nailed for the 13% on each transaction. .

Anyones free to mail me if they want to push my stuff. But no longer is it going to be a free for all where just any joe surfer can signup for an affiliate account and pull all my promo stuff for free. I have right now about 1.5 gigs of promo content. .

Just going by these two statements, wouldn't it be better to eliminate those costs before you took the percentage out of the affiliate?.....Why are you renting an affiliate script? Just use the one ccbill has that's free.....Why allow 1.5 gigs of content to be downloaded?.....I've ALWAYS made it so that an affiliate has to email me before I make his galleries....

It's always more diplomatic to cut unnecessary costs before you start taking profit and running affiliates off....I want EVERY SALE that an affiliate can give me...I don't care if it's once a month...It all adds up for ME.

Another thing you could do is raise your price by $5...That is if you're not charging more than 30 bucks now....Also you can add geo pricing....That's put a nice extra chunk of change in my pocket since day one...

Let's be honest....you were pissed off when you wrote that email and were basically saying in a professional way, "Shit is bad so fuck you affiliate...I gotta take it out of your end"....

[pr0]

Anyones free to mail me if they want to push my stuff. But no longer is it going to be a free for all where just any joe surfer can signup for an affiliate account and pull all my promo stuff for free. I have right now about 1.5 gigs of promo content. When CCbills WMS finishes up it will be available there but you will still have to email me directly and show me that your real before I email back the join form.

See NOW you are making perfect sense.

Approve all affiliates on sign up.

You could have done that without dropping your existing guys rebills down to 20%

[Gerco]

Just going by these two statements, wouldn't it be better to eliminate those costs before you took the percentage out of the affiliate?.....Why are you renting an affiliate script? Just use the one ccbill has that's free.....Why allow 1.5 gigs of content to be downloaded?.....I've ALWAYS made it so that an affiliate has to email me before I make his galleries....

It's always more diplomatic to cut unnecessary costs before you start taking profit and running affiliates off....I want EVERY SALE that an affiliate can give me...I don't care if it's once a month...It all adds up for ME.

Another thing you could do is raise your price by $5...That is if you're not charging more than 30 bucks now....Also you can add geo pricing....That's put a nice extra chunk of change in my pocket since day one...

Let's be honest....you were pissed off when you wrote that email and were basically saying in a professional way, "Shit is bad so fuck you affiliate...I gotta take it out of your end"....

See, I like how you break things down and I tend to agree with you. In the past I had allowed some (very few) affiliates to just go into the site and grab what they wanted to use. While it was good for them, it turned out bad in some respects cause it meant quite a bit of stuff got out there unmarked. Which I'm dealing with now.

It's funny you say to raise my prices, I this month, in fact lowered them. I had been running 34.95 for 6 years but just dropped the price down to 19.95. going by the figures, this has greatly increased signups... to the point where on a daily average the sites actually bringing in more revenue than at the old higher price. I can only guess that this should help some as to rebills also.

See, I'm not hiding anything here. I'm more than happy to share my numbers stats and anything else, really why wouldn't I? Want some screen shots from CCbill showing ratios?

Done.


Believe me this is not something that I just woke up this morning and said to myself "Damn I think I'll go and piss everyone off today" It's something that I have sat and worked the numbers and just don't see any other way at this moment in time.

[pr0]

Just start telling all new webmasters that you have a sliding scale. They will start out at 20% recurring (up to 2 sales per month)....for people with 3+ sales a month you will offer 30%, for 4-5+ sales per month 40% & for all webmasters sending you at least 6 sales a month, back to 50%.

Renting the affiliate script was the killler no doubt. To your bottom line. Especially when you already pay 13% to a company that offers it free.

By the way, i hope i haven't been too harsh/or sounded like a dick. I respect everyone's business model (for the most part). And i actually really like your site, giant dildos shoved up vagina's & 30 candles stuffed into one chick, i love it!. I just didn't really understand your logic based on the actual "issues" you've encountered, as to why you're going to pay your webmasters less.

[Sly]

I don't really understand what exactly it is that you expect to gain by dropping your affiliate payouts to 20%. By paying affiliates, you are essentially paying people to market for you. So while on the short-term you may pick up the additional 30% that you were not getting before, in the long term you're going to have less and less people promoting you. Meaning less traffic. Meaning even fewer sales.

So unless you have the traffic and the resources to swoop in and recover all of the lost affiliate traffic, your 30% gain is going to hurt you more than benefit you.

Now if you really don't have any affiliates or affiliate sales to begin with, the whole subject is pretty much moot. Do what you feel is right either way.

[pr0]

I don't really understand what exactly it is that you expect to gain by dropping your affiliate payouts to 20%. By paying affiliates, you are essentially paying people to market for you. So while on the short-term you may pick up the additional 30% that you were not getting before, in the long term you're going to have less and less people promoting you. Meaning less traffic. Meaning even fewer sales.

So unless you have the traffic and the resources to swoop in and recover all of the lost affiliate traffic, your 30% gain is going to hurt you more than benefit you.

Now if you really don't have any affiliates or affiliate sales to begin with, the whole subject is pretty much moot. Do what you feel is right either way.

He said his sales were 70% self generated. 30% Affiliate.

Which we all know means 40% affiliate....since 10% of all traffic is lost affiliate cookies & type-in's from affiliate promo's.

Anyways I wish this guy the best. The good news is, his site looks decent & it loads EXTREMELY fast.

[WarChild]

I love how people come up with these wild ratios! I do between 1:300 and 1:500 on more than one large "saturated" program. I mean christ, my BangBros ratio this period is 1:463. I do even better on extreme niched stuff, although the volume tends to be much lower.

So how long does a customer have to rebill at 20% revshare for me to compete with $35 per signup? Way longer than they're going to.

[georgeyw]

No problem.

If you know how to SELL your niche and make conversions, then even at 20%, you should make more money.

Exhibit A.
http://wwasdfasdfasdf

On 400-600 UV barely pushed to the site it had kick ass ratios over 3 months, and conversions. However, I know how to SELL the niche. So for me, I am not buying traffic to push a billion hits, nor ad spots, so my expenses are labor, and minimal promotion and support. But I am converting like a mofo.

Not everyone knows how to SELL a niche and make conversions. But those who do can capitalize on good content that sells well instead of chasing the same tail with over saturated content, and the 10,000 other desperado's trying to outspend each other on the same traffic, chasing the same customers.

A little tip for you. You will never outspend the programs.

Nice spam for yourself................................