Apple vs Microsoft

[borked]

From El Reg's article "Apple more closed than Microsoft"

some quotes from readers' replies, which are not at all untrue


?Poor tech docs."

"Ever tried getting an API definition out of them?"

?MS appears more willing to provide good documentation for APIs, SDKs, etc.?

"Lack of transparency and constant denial of obvious problems."

"Apple never admits to mistakes/vulnerabilities (even MS does that)."

"At least MS admits security flaws in the software instead of brushing it under the carpet!"

"Policies and attitude - their way or the highway."

"It wants ultimate control over everything done by or with its products."

?Not only closed but also most arrogant.?

"It operates 'brand control' on its developer network - bizarre."

"Microsoft doesn't ban competing products from running under Windows."

"They legally dictate the hardware too."

?No virtualisation allowed.?

"They have not been *forced* to start opening"

"It?s not yet big enough for the authorities to prize it open"

"It is now bordering on a religion."

"They can afford [to be closed] and don't suffer image problems for that."

"Microsoft never pretended to be anything else, Apple sells a lie."


So, don't let their cool designs and functionality fool you - Apple are a corporation and in business to make money. They are not Linux.

BTW, Apple will do their last Macworld expo in Jan - an end to an era. And Jobs will not be presenting it.

Where will Apple go without Jobs at the helm?

[Kudles]

Thats interesting

[crockett]

but my Mac still works better than my PC.. I have a brand new install of XP on my PC and it will already randomly crash programs.

Never had a single thing crash on my Mac yet. If I could install OSX on my PC I'd do it in a heart beat but my MoBo won't support it..

[alexchechs]

Ummm Jobs is still going to be at the helm of Apple.. Apple is just not doing the Mac World expo any longer because they have so many stores that they do events at that they don't need to.

Sure there are Apple haters, just as I am a PC haters... but you have to think that those Microsoft ads they made to target apple were all made on MACS.... what does that say... oh yeah... Microsoft played themselves...

[borked]

Ummm Jobs is still going to be at the helm of Apple.. Apple is just not doing the Mac World expo any longer because they have so many stores that they do events at that they don't need to.

I think you're very much wrong....

Jobs gets diagnosed with pancreatic cancer, Jobs takes time off for treatment, Jobs comes back, Jobs gives every Macworld since he's been in power, Jobs appears very thin and emaciated on last public appearance, Apple announce this will be their last expo, Jobs isn't giving it.

Apple continually refuse to comment on his health. Jobs has made no recent public appearances.

It doesn't take a genius at the bar to see what is going to happen...

[Brad]

I really don't understand why people care so much.

You don't see people bitching about the guy who just bought an overpriced Dell from AlienWare do you? Or say, "hey that Gateway machine is balls and looks like a piece of dog shit"!

Fact is OSX is better than windows. Apple made the choice to do their own manufacturing and not screw around with licencing. Besides, they still have under 10% market share so why are we even having this discussion?

[borked]

Never had a single thing crash on my Mac yet. If I could install OSX on my PC I'd do it in a heart beat but my MoBo won't support it..

> half the reason for this is that Apple controls the hardware

My Mac inventory in my life

Mac Classic
Mac Classic II
Performer 6400/200
G3 Tower something or other
Powerbook G3 (the black 'impossible to break' one)
Powerbook G4
The last Powerbook G4 before the MBP
Current MBP


I've never owned a PC, and my Performer 6400 is still down in the basement in full working order running OS 9.5 (slowly)

OS X does crash though, just not often. I've had the MBP for 18 months and it's had about 5 or so hard resets in its life.

[borked]

Besides, they still have under 10% market share so why are we even having this discussion?

Simply because they only have 10% market share...

IMO, Apple is only a great product because it's a niche product. All those crappy things you install on Windows that cause problems aren't written for Mac. All the drivers for printers, scanners, cameras (you know the big players) etc have been written closely with Apple programmers because Apple know they have to do this to get that bit of the market share. Why bother to write a virus for such a small customer base? How come Apple have't been able to penetrate the server market industry?

Apple make a great product, sure. But don't be complacent - they have the hallmarks of an evil company....

[pornask]

Some great points. Awesome thread, thanks for sharing

[Dagwolf]

Apple sucks for blind people.... :2cents:

[skrinkladoo]

Apple software is proprietary to apple equipment, hmmm ... what was your first clue this wasn't on the level?

[borked]

Apple sucks for blind people.... :2cents:

what???
You're kidding right? Apple is one of the best OS' for access to all - *If* you have a mac, open up system prefs and look at Universal Access....

Tiny attention to detail that makes computing open for all

[borked]

Apple software is proprietary to apple equipment, hmmm ... what was your first clue this wasn't on the level?

Agreed

Just knocking the fanboys down a peg or two.

[stickyfingerz]

I think you're very much wrong....

Jobs gets diagnosed with pancreatic cancer, Jobs takes time off for treatment, Jobs comes back, Jobs gives every Macworld since he's been in power, Jobs appears very thin and emaciated on last public appearance, Apple announce this will be their last expo, Jobs isn't giving it.

Apple continually refuse to comment on his health. Jobs has made no recent public appearances.

It doesn't take a genius at the bar to see what is going to happen...

Pancreatic cancer has a very low survival rate even throwing large amounts of money at it. If he really has it, I wouldn't give him much time.

[Violetta]

never liked apple... and for the record I dont like microsoft either.

[SomeCreep]

Bottom line, Microsoft will continue to stagnate or possibly grow at a marginal rate over the next 10 years. Apple will most likely double in size over the next 10 years.

[borked]

never liked apple... and for the record I dont like microsoft either.

so, which is the better devil you know?

and don't dare say Linux.... while I have absolute admiration for that system, it simply isn't productive as a desktop environment.

[borked]

Pancreatic cancer has a very low survival rate even throwing large amounts of money at it. If he really has it, I wouldn't give him much time.

Yeah, he was diagnosed with it back in '04 though he said it was "a rare, far less aggressive type known as islet cell neuroendocrine tumor"

Pic from a few months ago at his last public appearance...



I don't wish him ill, but if he's seriously sick, shouldnt Apple make it public? Or is the company really a one-man-band? I do fear the latter

[Sid70]

[tony286]

He dies I think apple is in trouble but its his fault. Its all him and if hes not there.Then that doesnt work.

[MaDalton]

i use both - since more than 15 years or so (Win 3.1 and Mac OS 6 on a MAC II I think were my first ones after Atari ST). i wish i could take the best of both systems cause none of them is perfect.

[mozadek]

He dies I think apple is in trouble but its his fault. Its all him and if hes not there.Then that doesnt work.

If he dies it would be the perfect time to invest in apple after the stock takes a big hit.

[borked]

i use both - since more than 15 years or so (Win 3.1 and Mac OS 6 on a MAC II I think were my first ones after Atari ST). i wish i could take the best of both systems cause none of them is perfect.

Nothing is ever perfect, though I'm interested to know why you use both systems?

Textmat and Coda on the mac are simply excellent and I think it's ironic that PowerPoint is a better app on the Mac than on Windows.

But apart from those 3, I'd say I'm ambivalent as to OS as all the other apps I use are both Mac/Windows with no difference, though I prefer the Mac as an OS as it's less of a pain to use than the Windows OS. (plus I can easily go Mac->Windows with Fusion, but not the reverse)

[MaDalton]

Nothing is ever perfect, though I'm interested to know why you use both systems?

Textmat and Coda on the mac are simply excellent and I think it's ironic that PowerPoint is a better app on the Mac than on Windows.

But apart from those 3, I'd say I'm ambivalent as to OS as all the other apps I use are both Mac/Windows with no difference, though I prefer the Mac as an OS as it's less of a pain to use than the Windows OS. (plus I can easily go Mac->Windows with Fusion, but not the reverse)

mostly because i had to. i worked for a newspaper, a recording studio and a prepress company over the years - they all used Mac. Privately after Atari ST I always used Windows cause the hardware was much cheaper and more software available.

today i have a MPB but I run Parallels for MS Outlook and Trillian mostly. and in my office everything is Windows

i can work on both systems - but i like what someone else once said: Mac makes complicated things easy and easy things complicated. For example there is no program like ACDSee for Mac - which is a huge pain in the ass. And i tried at least 20 programs.

[FreeOnes]

I had to hard reset my ipod at least 40 times and my iphone 10 times/....

[Grapesoda]

you guys can bag out MS and gates all you want but that fact is without gates and MS we would have to get real jobs because there would be no Internet.

if it was up to apple/jobs there would only be computers at high end 'art fag' locations where every one is so special and entirely too fucking cool.

gates is the one that made the PC and appliance, not jobs.

$.02 -bmb

[borked]

gates is the one that made the PC and appliance, not jobs.

$.02 -bmb

bzzzzzzzz

Gates was the one that took apple's "point and click windows" and made it available to the masses by opening it up to any PC platform. Apple was on 'windows' for quite a while before Windows adopted it.

Jobs insisted his OS was better and kept it tied to his own platform. Idiot.

[scarlettcontent]

Windows

[tony286]

bzzzzzzzz

Gates was the one that took apple's "point and click windows" and made it available to the masses by opening it up to any PC platform. Apple was on 'windows' for quite a while before Windows adopted it.

Jobs insisted his OS was better and kept it tied to his own platform. Idiot.

i think the reason his os is better is because they control what hardware is exactly used. I think if you had a $300 computer and the os was only for the exact parts in it. It would run as well as a mac.

[gideongallery]

bzzzzzzzz

Gates was the one that took apple's "point and click windows" and made it available to the masses by opening it up to any PC platform. Apple was on 'windows' for quite a while before Windows adopted it.

Jobs insisted his OS was better and kept it tied to his own platform. Idiot.

ah no
mac took the gui interface from parcs, as well as the mouse

microsoft hired one of the engineers from parcs to create windows from the same source (clean room). They paid him a million dollars to do it.

That is the reason why microsoft won the look and feel lawsuit that apple brought against them.

It also the reason why windows 3.1 interface was so crappy compared to the apple mac interface at the time.

[borked]

ah no
mac took the gui interface from parcs, as well as the mouse

microsoft hired one of the engineers from parcs to create windows from the same source (clean room). They paid him a million dollars to do it.

That is the reason why microsoft won the look and feel lawsuit that apple brought against them.

It also the reason why windows 3.1 interface was so crappy compared to the apple mac interface at the time.

haha good call. yeah it came from xerox as a design, but the Lisa was the first ever computer to use it.

[OG LennyT]

I really don't understand why people care so much.

because Apple is a publicly traded company and a hi-profile one at that as it is one of the main tech stocks in that sector.

plus there's a bunch of Windows/Gates/conformity haters out there

[AsianDivaGirlsWebDude]

ADG

[HorseShit]

[cess]

but my Mac still works better than my PC.. I have a brand new install of XP on my PC and it will already randomly crash programs.

How is that microsoft's fault? Yes it's their OS but they didn't make the hardware, they didn't make the drivers, they don't always test the drivers etc. Win2000,XP,Vista are solid and stable operating systems that were coded better than OSX. Hackers talk about how sloppy the OSX code really is and how easy it is to break it compared to Windows.

Try to buy a apple machine with a Nvidia GTX280 or Radeon 4870. You can't, the only cards on their site are the 8800 series which are YEARS old. Apple sure does take their time testing hardware. That's a big downside to buying a mac. The best 8800 card probably isn't worth 75 bucks. But anyway if you're careful and watch what hardware, drivers etc you install XP or Vista won't crash either.

[tony286]

Xerox could of owned the world, read Accidental Empires: How the Boys of Silicon Valley Make Their Millions, Battle Foreign Competition, and Still Can't Get a Date.its a great book.
http://www.amazon.com/Accidental-Emp...9996464&sr=8-7

[stickyfingerz]

How is that microsoft's fault? Yes it's their OS but they didn't make the hardware, they didn't make the drivers, they don't always test the drivers etc. Win2000,XP,Vista are solid and stable operating systems that were coded better than OSX. Hackers talk about how sloppy the OSX code really is and how easy it is to break it compared to Windows.

Try to buy a apple machine with a Nvidia GTX280 or Radeon 4870. You can't, the only cards on their site are the 8800 series which are YEARS old. Apple sure does take their time testing hardware. That's a big downside to buying a mac. The best 8800 card probably isn't worth 75 bucks. But anyway if you're careful and watch what hardware, drivers etc you install XP or Vista won't crash either.

Yes wasn't there a hacker test not long ago and Vista was the winner over mac by a huge margin? Ill have to dig that up. lol

[psili]

Only reason I won't use a Mac is because of its user base; that and I can't find a reason to get a Mac.

$.0002.

[Grapesoda]

bzzzzzzzz

Gates was the one that took apple's "point and click windows" and made it available to the masses by opening it up to any PC platform. Apple was on 'windows' for quite a while before Windows adopted it.

Jobs insisted his OS was better and kept it tied to his own platform. Idiot.

which apple got caught stealing from zerox BTW

[Grapesoda]

How is that microsoft's fault? Yes it's their OS but they didn't make the hardware, they didn't make the drivers, they don't always test the drivers etc. Win2000,XP,Vista are solid and stable operating systems that were coded better than OSX. Hackers talk about how sloppy the OSX code really is and how easy it is to break it compared to Windows.

Try to buy a apple machine with a Nvidia GTX280 or Radeon 4870. You can't, the only cards on their site are the 8800 series which are YEARS old. Apple sure does take their time testing hardware. That's a big downside to buying a mac. The best 8800 card probably isn't worth 75 bucks. But anyway if you're careful and watch what hardware, drivers etc you install XP or Vista won't crash either.

and macs aren't 'legacy' this is the main reason for pc virus... every new mac OS is all new software isn't it?

[Grapesoda]

Only reason I won't use a Mac is because of its user base; that and I can't find a reason to get a Mac.

$.0002.

man, I SOOOOO understand that one

[brandonstills]

As a developer and someone who uses a lot of Adobe software OS X is great. Linux doesn't have the apps (Photoshop, Aperture, Flash) and doesn't have Textmate. Windows doesn't have any unix environment so developing on it is a bit like cross-platform development all the time.

But Apple sucks ass as a company. I hate how they do business. I haven't bothered to learn any of their programming environments. I just wish Linux could have better software on it and there would be no need for Windows or OS X.

[Major (Tom)]

Interesting.
I am not a mac sheep person, yet I have two of the new dual quad power macs and a powermac notebook. I build all my own rendering machines which use vista ultimate. I edit on both machines. What I have found is this:
Mac is slower
it has maybe a few less flaws than a microsoft OS, but it crashes, too.
it isnt as compatible with other products
mac has much cooler shit and is more creative.

What I have come to learn from years of editing and building machines:
Save your money, build a pc.

Mac is definatley a cult.

Duke

[Fucker Five]

Macs are cute, but I prefer pc

[stickyfingerz]

Interesting.
I am not a mac sheep person, yet I have two of the new dual quad power macs and a powermac notebook. I build all my own rendering machines which use vista ultimate. I edit on both machines. What I have found is this:
Mac is slower
it has maybe a few less flaws than a microsoft OS, but it crashes, too.
it isnt as compatible with other products
mac has much cooler shit and is more creative.

What I have come to learn from years of editing and building machines:
Save your money, build a pc.

Mac is definatley a cult.

Duke

Enter ICE to call you clueless lol

[kektex]

Windows doesn't have any unix environment so developing on it is a bit like cross-platform development all the time.
.

Search for cygwin. It's made life much easier for me when I'm on windows and I miss command line apps.

[ReX LuxurY]

I love Apple

[Rochard]

I've never understood the interest in MAC. What can a make do that a PC can't? I'm wonder Windows Vista, all of the tools of the average webmaster (Dreamweaver, Photoshop, Firefox, FTP) and even encode videos. I have no problems. Everything flies on my PC.

My brother in law is a be MAC freak. However, he runs M$ operating systems on his MACs.

[Brad]

I'd rather a Porsche than a Ferrari

$0.02

[EthnicLover]

I love my iMac. I can't stand the PC I worked on during the school semester. It took forever to turn on and is not user friendly. To each his/her own.