Question Regarding User Uploaded Pics.

[stocktrader23]

We have a mainstream website that lets users upload their pics. It's semi dating but more like an online community. Anyway, alot of people have asked if they could upload semi-nude/nude photos of themselves. This would pretty much be doing the same thing that Adultfriendfinder.com etc allow.

My question is how do they get away with this without the model release etc? Is there something in the TOS that covers them or are they just risking it? Thanks.

[jennycards]

Adultfriendfinder.com DOES require a model release form from their camhosts.

[stocktrader23]

Originally posted by jennycards
Adultfriendfinder.com DOES require a model release form from their camhosts.

What about just the pics that are uploaded in the personals on the site? I don't have any cams up. I'm just refering to pics someone puts on their profile.

[Brujah]

Don't need a model release if you provide commentary on it ? It's the loophole that lets you use unlicensed pics I hear.

[stocktrader23]

Originally posted by Brujah
Don't need a model release if you provide commentary on it ? It's the loophole that lets you use unlicensed pics I hear.

Commentary? Are you referring to the video thread?

[Paul Markham]

You are fine assuming the person uploading the pics is the person in the pics.

If it's pictures from a boyfriend, jilted lover, thief, stolen pictures off a site, or the pictures are of an under age girl (I defy you to tell the difference between a 16 and 20 year old, RIGHT EVERYTIME).

Or the girls, Dad, Uncle, brother, neightbor find them and she swears they were stolen and just posted up on the net without her knowledge.

Then I suggest you need to get a good attorney now.

I do not believe you guys, are you really living in the US? The US is litigation mad, there are attorneys out there looking for any excuse to sue. Recently a big magazine company were sued because they were stupid enough to have only an English model release on a Hungarian girl. The lawyer said she did not understand. Cost them $50,000 to get rid of them both.

So I suggest you go right ahead with your plans they sound really good to me. Should be a great niche. FOR ATTORNEYS.

[Rochard]

You need the model release, end of story. Let me find a picture of Tawnee Stone on your site. You'll hear from my attorney quick.

You would be surprised how many people upload pictures from porn sites.

[Brujah]

You might also check with VoyeurWeb. They've been doing it forever. http://www.voyeurweb.com/main/Compet.html

[psyko514]

Originally posted by Brujah
You might also check with VoyeurWeb. They've been doing it forever. http://www.voyeurweb.com/main/Compet.html

I'm curious as to how the fuck the get away with this!!!

[DyannaDoes]

Originally posted by Brujah
You might also check with VoyeurWeb. They've been doing it forever. http://www.voyeurweb.com/main/Compet.html

There's nothing there that would cover them legally. Period.

They are taking copyright, model release, and underage risks.

[psyko514]

Originally posted by DyannaDoes

There's nothing there that would cover them legally. Period.

They are taking copyright, model release, and underage risks.

Yet they've been around for years and have tons of traffic

[DyannaDoes]

Originally posted by psyko514


Yet they've been around for years and have tons of traffic

I agree - so how do you explain it other than they have been taking risks and no one has gone after them?

Anyone who has been around this industry knows that there is NO way what they are doing complies with those laws.

[jimmyf]

Originally posted by charly
You are fine assuming the person uploading the pics is the person in the pics.

If it's pictures from a boyfriend, jilted lover, thief, stolen pictures off a site, or the pictures are of an under age girl (I defy you to tell the difference between a 16 and 20 year old, RIGHT EVERYTIME).

Or the girls, Dad, Uncle, brother, neightbor find them and she swears they were stolen and just posted up on the net without her knowledge.

Then I suggest you need to get a good attorney now.

I do not believe you guys, are you really living in the US? The US is litigation mad, there are attorneys out there looking for any excuse to sue. Recently a big magazine company were sued because they were stupid enough to have only an English model release on a Hungarian girl. The lawyer said she did not understand. Cost them $50,000 to get rid of them both.

Very good advice.

[UnseenWorld]

Originally posted by charly
You are fine assuming the person uploading the pics is the person in the pics.

If it's pictures from a boyfriend, jilted lover, thief, stolen pictures off a site, or the pictures are of an under age girl (I defy you to tell the difference between a 16 and 20 year old, RIGHT EVERYTIME).

Or the girls, Dad, Uncle, brother, neightbor find them and she swears they were stolen and just posted up on the net without her knowledge.

Then I suggest you need to get a good attorney now.

I do not believe you guys, are you really living in the US? The US is litigation mad, there are attorneys out there looking for any excuse to sue. Recently a big magazine company were sued because they were stupid enough to have only an English model release on a Hungarian girl. The lawyer said she did not understand. Cost them $50,000 to get rid of them both.

So I suggest you go right ahead with your plans they sound really good to me. Should be a great niche. FOR ATTORNEYS.

You said it, bro! I would add that people should avoid the bedsheet (meaning, huge and lengthy and legalese) releases attorneys like. They are just trying to rack up billable time with those things. I feel a simple, easily understood, plain English release is the way to go (for an English speaking model). A girl can go to court and argue that a release should be invalidated, and one of the grounds might be that she didn't really understand it, and when asked why she didn't get an attorney to look at it, she would reply "I was only makin' $200!" Give your model a release any idiot can understand.

[DyannaDoes]

bump

Unseen - you're talking about a model, not pictures uploaded to a website by a user . . .

charly - I agree with all you wrote except

You are fine assuming the person uploading the pics is the person in the pics.

You don't have any way of knowing that.

Anyway, I'm going to keep bumping this because hopefully somebody here knows this legal issue firsthand. I'm helping out a friend on a site much like adultfriendfinder and am concerned about the issue.

[Braincash Fred]

Only way to cover you ass is to ask for 2 valid ID and model's release...unless you want to go to court for underage stuff

[DyannaDoes]

AC, that's the only way I can see it too. Anyone else?

[Paul Markham]

Originally posted by DyannaDoes


You don't have any way of knowing that.

Anyway, I'm going to keep bumping this because hopefully somebody here knows this legal issue firsthand. I'm helping out a friend on a site much like adultfriendfinder and am concerned about the issue.

My whole point entirely, you have no way of knowing until the police knock on your door or the writ is served.

We shhot "Readers Wives" pictures for two US magazines, no those girls are not "Readers Girlfriends/Wives, why? They have the sense not to trust what is sent in the post.

You want a legal opinion?

ASK A LAWYER!!! But I guess you are too much of a broke pussy to do that. So you are getting free content, free advise, going for free hosting as well.

It's guys like this that make us easy targets for Ashhahahahaha and his cronies.

[DyannaDoes]

Originally posted by charly
My whole point entirely, you have no way of knowing until the police knock on your door or the writ is served.

We shhot "Readers Wives" pictures for two US magazines, no those girls are not "Readers Girlfriends/Wives, why? They have the sense not to trust what is sent in the post.

You want a legal opinion?

ASK A LAWYER!!! But I guess you are too much of a broke pussy to do that. So you are getting free content, free advise, going for free hosting as well.

It's guys like this that make us easy targets for Ashhahahahaha and his cronies.

What in the fuck are you talking about?

Yes, I would like it if someone who has dealt with this issue would post what they know. This IS a board where people help each other out.

And no, I am not broke, and am also a guy. I also happen to be the former owner of dyannadoes.com, which whether you are fmailiar with or not doesn't really matter. But when I was running it it was making more money than almost any other amateur site that featured one woman, and we did have legal counsel on retainer - David Wasserman. And you know what? Even though we were based in Texas, a DA in Oklahoma filed criminal obscenity charges against us. Our content was nothing unusual - plain hardcore and it was all in our members area. The the Oklahoma FBI went after us, finally forcing us to shut down. We delayed and attempted to stop the proceedings by filing motions, spent more money in legal fees than most people on this site have ever made in this business, but it still was one-step from court. Not wanting to go to jail (remember this trial would be in bible belt central), we bowed out of the fight. That site was all mine and my wife's so if you mean we were getting free content THERE, yes I guess so since the pictures were of us.

Regarding the friend I am trying to help out with his dating site, he uses cavecreek hosting, the pictures are NOT why people join - it's just something the members want to do.

So basically before you go running your mouth off over something you have no idea of what the real issue is, why don't you just GFY.

[DyannaDoes]

charly, one other thing now that I have calmed down. Never did I ask for legal advice. I was just hoping that someone here had dealt with the issue.


As for my website which was shutdown, I was always happy to provide information to people that asked questions about our legal issues. And then I'd tell them to find a good attorney. I just didn't realize asking for opinions on legal issues was a no-no on GFY these days.

I guess I'll go back to posting on the more reasonable posts, such as "do you like this ass?"

[Paul Markham]

Originally posted by DyannaDoes

Anyway, I'm going to keep bumping this because hopefully somebody here knows this legal issue firsthand. I'm helping out a friend on a site much like adultfriendfinder and am concerned about the issue.

So what did you want if not the answer to a legal issue?

Ask me about cameras, lighting, getting the best out of a model. Ask around here about traffic, banners, AVS and TGP sites. But if anyone has come across this problem and asked a lawyer where they live it will do you no good where you live.

If after all the trouble you had you should have learnt that. Giving a friend the wrong legal advice in any industry is foolish, giving it in the porn business is down right stupid.

You call him a friend? Give him a Yellow Pages open at Attorneys.

[DyannaDoes]

Originally posted by charly
So what did you want if not the answer to a legal issue?

Ask me about cameras, lighting, getting the best out of a model. Ask around here about traffic, banners, AVS and TGP sites. But if anyone has come across this problem and asked a lawyer where they live it will do you no good where you live.

If after all the trouble you had you should have learnt that. Giving a friend the wrong legal advice in any industry is foolish, giving it in the porn business is down right stupid.

You call him a friend? Give him a Yellow Pages open at Attorneys.

What I wanted was to see if anyone had run into this before. Any info. A good lawyer to handle it. Anything. Besides, I'm not even the one that started this topic.

"But if anyone has come across this problem and asked a lawyer where they live it will do you no good where you live."

Uh, that's pretty much incorrect. I'm not talking obscenity here, plus, in the case of my site, I was prosecuted where the material was DOWNLOADED. ANd it's not like there are good adult atttorneys running around every state . . . most people I know use firms that are nowhere near where they live.

So are any legal isssues ok with you to discuss around here? I'm sure you jumped all over the ACACIA threads and told everyone to stop asking questions.

Finally, as to your last statement - I'm not trying to gie him ANY legal advice. I'm trying to find information. Besides, I wouldn't give a friend the "Yellow Pages" to find an attorney for an adult legal issue. Now THAT would be stupid.

[Matt 26z]

I've seen dozens of these types of sites over the years. Some are quite popular. If they were getting into the legal trouble some in this thread like to think they'd be getting into, then they wouldn't still be in business after all this time.

Heck, look at even the non-nude photo profile sites like this. Something like Face The Jury and Hot or Not both have users posting photos of clothed porn models here and there.

[TheJimmy]

Originally posted by Brujah
Don't need a model release if you provide commentary on it ? It's the loophole that lets you use unlicensed pics I hear.

Also note, that even though ifriends has contracts signed, etc...they still display a disclaimer above their chathost's pic galleries

something to the effect that all content posted is totally controlled and uploaded by the chathost, not controlled or uploaded by them...

also, consider all the other communities online that allow for users to build pages, upload their pics, etc...I'm sure there is legal backing for it somewhere, although rules online change all the time, who knows...

[DyannaDoes]

Matt & TheJimmy - thank you!

[stocktrader23]

Originally posted by charly
You are fine assuming the person uploading the pics is the person in the pics.

If it's pictures from a boyfriend, jilted lover, thief, stolen pictures off a site, or the pictures are of an under age girl (I defy you to tell the difference between a 16 and 20 year old, RIGHT EVERYTIME).

Or the girls, Dad, Uncle, brother, neightbor find them and she swears they were stolen and just posted up on the net without her knowledge.

Then I suggest you need to get a good attorney now.

I do not believe you guys, are you really living in the US? The US is litigation mad, there are attorneys out there looking for any excuse to sue. Recently a big magazine company were sued because they were stupid enough to have only an English model release on a Hungarian girl. The lawyer said she did not understand. Cost them $50,000 to get rid of them both.

So I suggest you go right ahead with your plans they sound really good to me. Should be a great niche. FOR ATTORNEYS.

Of course you have no way of knowing who uploads a pic. I'm just curious how Friendfinder, Yahoo, MSN, AOL, and all the other thousands of dating and other sites on the net that let you upload a pic get a away with it? Of course I would have a lawyer look over anything of this nature but there is obviously something you can do to protect yourself. Yahoo is flooded with copywrited pics, underage pics, etc. In fact a couple of years ago with the big CP bust from a Yahoo club the FBI had told Yahoo to leave the club open so they could get names of everyone that joined. Did Yahoo get in any major trouble? No, they didn't put the pics there. My point is there is definately some way of covering your ass and I was hoping someone had dealt with this before.

I don't want photos that shouldn't be on my site to be there so of course I would police it and respond to any complaints. I simply asked how sites that allow this do it. Being that there are several dating site owners that post here I figured it would be a good place.

I'm sure someone knows. Pardon me for asking.

[stocktrader23]

Originally posted by RocHard
You need the model release, end of story. Let me find a picture of Tawnee Stone on your site. You'll hear from my attorney quick.

You would be surprised how many people upload pictures from porn sites.

Of course I know people use uploaded pics from porn sites and I would take them down as soon as I saw them. I go over every pic uploaded to our mainstream site because nothing stops them now. I pull every adult pic out regardless at the moment and I would pull any pic I knew shouldn't be there or that I was contaced about.

When you say I would hear from your lawyer I would assume you mean he would send me a letter to take the pic off immediately. If you are talking about suing anyone with a pic of Tawnee Stone without ever contacting them first I hope you plan on spending millions a year on it. I'll help your legal battle along also. Have a look at this club on yahoo. Very cute front page girl there.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Teeniewinne/

They also ask that each member that joins submits 3 pics of her or other models to be put in the photo album. So who will your lawyer be contacting? The owner of that club or Yahoo? I don't see you getting very far with Yahoo on the matter except for the club being closed.

I'm pretty sure I can find around 100 more clubs and user uploaded pics featuring your girls. You going to sue Kazaa for people uploading pics of her there also?

I know you are pissed people use your pics for their gain but I'm pretty sure you would go after the right people.

When you get done with the sites I listed above you can move to geocities, angelfire, and any other free host for that matter. Do you pay a bounty? I'll send you a thousand or so sites a year that have your girl on them.

[TDF]

[heymatty]

I find it weird that people think user submitted pics are a new idea.

Voyeurweb has been in the top 5 porn sites for traffic since forever.

If I upload a picture from Paul Markham Content or a cp pic to a Yahoo briefcase. Is Yahoo liable? No they just have to remove them as soon as notified.

Yahoo have more expensive lawyers than everyone here I am sure and they are happy to allow people to upload pictures and serve ads to people who view them.

The only legal distinction is if you serve 'porn' advertisments while you allow people to view the pictures.

[DyannaDoes]

heymatty - I agree with all of that. On the other hand, there is only one legal court precedent regarding the matter that I am aware of.

It was back in the early 90's I believe, and involved a couple who I think lived in San Francisco. They ran an adult BBS which allowed users to upload pictures to the BBS. Some of the pictures were CP. ANyway, I think it was somebody like the postmaster general of Tennessee who joined the BBS and found the CP. The owners of the BBS were then charged with CP offenses, found guity, and went to jail.