mutual funds

[Terrance111]

Anyone have experience with mutual funds.

I'm looking for a good place to invest, help is needed!

[FATPad]

Vanguard.

http://www.vanguard.com/

[blckwidow]

I'm with FATPad, Vanguard has no load funds (extremely low fees) and they are an incredibly reputable and well-known company. Go with the total stock market index fund.

[Spunky]

I lost a shitload of money with them,I would be very leary investing in that shit

[Sama]

Terrance,
Check out the Motley Fool HERE They offer some real good and practical advice. I've used their site for years now and highly recommend it. There is an entire section on mutal funds and an active forum.

Good Luck!

[RedShoe]

Originally posted by spunky1
I lost a shitload of money with them,I would be very leary investing in that shit

Don't blame them for your loss.

[hershie]

In this kind of a market the past couple of years, a broad index mutual fund like Vanguards that track the S&P 500 or the Wishire 5000 may be the wrong thing to do. You need a sharp mutual fund manager who actively trades the account to cherry-pick the right stocks in a market that may move sideways for a few years still. IMO.

[quiet]

i've done nothing but very slowly bleed money with my mutual funds.

[RottenPug]

Originally posted by Sama
Terrance,
Check out the Motley Fool HERE They offer some real good and practical advice. I've used their site for years now and highly recommend it. There is an entire section on mutal funds and an active forum.

Good Luck!

Very nice site, just added to favorites.

[KRL]

You are totally INSANE to be in broad based mutual funds with the way the market is now unless you are into financial suicide.

[Spunky]

Originally posted by RedShoe


Don't blame them for your loss.

True,I blame myself for being suckered into mutual funds in the first place

[RedShoe]

Does anyone here use the "Dogs of the Dow" method? I'm curious to see how it's working out.

[Pornwolf]

Listen to Quiet. If you must do it definitely go to The Motley Fool's site and find out which one will do the least damage to you right now. If you haven't been keeping tabs on the specifics of the market make sure you watch all you can this week before you make a decision about how the market is going to perform this year, it's gonna be a volitile one.

[webair]

talk to a professional in the field...


[email protected]

this dude is good

[SleazyDream]

short term mutual fund investing is for fools.

long term fund investing done right needs to be properly spread across multiple cpmpanies, management styles, asset bases, and geographic locations. People who did that before the crash lost very little in the last couple of years - they didn't make much but at least they kept most of the great gains they got before the crash.

funny - more and more companies are using this appraoch now - I was preaching this approach10 years ago to my clients.

[FATPad]

Originally posted by hershie
In this kind of a market the past couple of years, a broad index mutual fund like Vanguards that track the S&P 500 or the Wishire 5000 may be the wrong thing to do. You need a sharp mutual fund manager who actively trades the account to cherry-pick the right stocks in a market that may move sideways for a few years still. IMO.

Regular old market based index funds (S&P 500 funds, and broader funds like Vanguards Total Stock Market fund) beat 80%+ of actively managed funds.

The market as a whole invariably goes up longterm. If you invest for long term (like you should with stocks), the market's daily, weekly and even yearly ups and downs mean nothing. I check my stuff 4 times a year, and honestly it means nthing to me where it currently is.

Actively managed mutual funds suck with very few exceptions. Even if they do manage to outperform the market on a raw % gain basis, by the time you factor in expense ratios and taxes, you're behind the S&P 500 index funds actual monetary gains.

Doesn't mean everything you have should be in a broad index fund, but broad index funds are the safest, easiest way to make money longterm.

And yes...there are exceptions. I am aware of that. ;) As long as you have the right timeframe though, you can't go wrong with an index fund.

[Marcus]

Try the Vice Fund
http://www.vicefund.com/

They only invest in Gambling, Tobacco, Alcohol and Defence. Recession-proof industries

[EscortBiz]

for now throw it in the bank, look around in 6 months

[hershie]

Originally posted by FATPad
Regular old market based index funds (S&P 500 funds, and broader funds like Vanguards Total Stock Market fund) beat 80%+ of actively managed funds.

The market as a whole invariably goes up longterm. If you invest for long term (like you should with stocks), the market's daily, weekly and even yearly ups and downs mean nothing. I check my stuff 4 times a year, and honestly it means nthing to me where it currently is.

Actively managed mutual funds suck with very few exceptions. Even if they do manage to outperform the market on a raw % gain basis, by the time you factor in expense ratios and taxes, you're behind the S&P 500 index funds actual monetary gains.

Doesn't mean everything you have should be in a broad index fund, but broad index funds are the safest, easiest way to make money longterm.

And yes...there are exceptions. I am aware of that. ;) As long as you have the right timeframe though, you can't go wrong with an index fund.

That sounds like you bought the hype of those buy and hold financial planners that always have a quick retort when you look at your decimated portfolio and they say the exact thing you just did likes its a mantra for them to repeat sevral times a day. That mantra made better sense a few years ago then today regardless of the fact that the market has gone up healthlily when you have a longer term time horizon. Buy I am not so sure the understood laws of the market apply going forward for several years maybe and its been a fact that the indexes (and associated funds like Vanguard...) have been getting whipped compared to the actively managed ones reagrless of the differential in MER fee between the two the past 3 years and maybe the next several going forward. I am not sugesting someone invest in either or, just that I don't trust what has happened heretofore to be my guide going forward.

[blckwidow]

1. Don't invest money in the market that you will need in the next 5-10 years

2. Invest regularly, it's called dollar cost averaging

3. Buy low and sell high........ the market is low right now, so now is a great time to start investing

Start investing in a broad based index fund, put in the same amount each and every month, don't try to time the market, and just invest and leave it alone for 10-20 years. Most of the sour grapes people either started when the market was high, invested badly, or invested money that they needed in less than 5-10 years.

For those who are moaning: if your investments are good, just wait it out, the market always comes back.

Then again, I love people who get out when things are down and jump on the bandwagon and buy when things are high, they're the ones who make it possible for people like me to buy low and sell high.

Definitely read everything you can at www.motleyfool.com it's a great site with tons of unbiased information.

Karen

[dav555add]

Buy $1000 of WCOEQ, pray whoever your God is, and wait 10 years,.
If everything goes well, you'll be a millionaire...

[Spunky]

Originally posted by blckwidow
1. Don't invest money in the market that you will need in the next 5-10 years

2. Invest regularly, it's called dollar cost averaging

3. Buy low and sell high........ the market is low right now, so now is a great time to start investing

Start investing in a broad based index fund, put in the same amount each and every month, don't try to time the market, and just invest and leave it alone for 10-20 years. Most of the sour grapes people either started when the market was high, invested badly, or invested money that they needed in less than 5-10 years.

For those who are moaning: if your investments are good, just wait it out, the market always comes back.

Then again, I love people who get out when things are down and jump on the bandwagon and buy when things are high, they're the ones who make it possible for people like me to buy low and sell high.

Definitely read everything you can at www.motleyfool.com it's a great site with tons of unbiased information.

Karen

Dam...why didnt I get this advice 10 years ago?

[Sama]

blckwidow, I agree with 100% of everything you just said! :D

[hershie]

Originally posted by blckwidow
1. Don't invest money in the market that you will need in the next 5-10 years

2. Invest regularly, it's called dollar cost averaging

3. Buy low and sell high........ the market is low right now, so now is a great time to start investing

Start investing in a broad based index fund, put in the same amount each and every month, don't try to time the market, and just invest and leave it alone for 10-20 years. Most of the sour grapes people either started when the market was high, invested badly, or invested money that they needed in less than 5-10 years.

For those who are moaning: if your investments are good, just wait it out, the market always comes back.

Then again, I love people who get out when things are down and jump on the bandwagon and buy when things are high, they're the ones who make it possible for people like me to buy low and sell high.

Definitely read everything you can at www.motleyfool.com it's a great site with tons of unbiased information.

Karen

i like to keep up with all the biz mags (Forbes, Fortune...) and all I can say is that the "rules of the road" you state come from another time and place and do not necessarily apply going forward. I am not necessarily disagreeing, but there are dozens of smarter people then I who have written that the time of the broad index funds outperforming the actively managed ones is over and is an illusion of an outperforming stockmarket where the tide lifts all boats - but in this kind of a climate - the indexes are weighed down by the relative size of a few large companies that can be lond term dogs and weigh down the entire index. So, what to do. I know not. I just don't trust accepted wisdom any longer.

[FATPad]

Originally posted by hershie


That sounds like you bought the hype of those buy and hold financial planners that always have a quick retort when you look at your decimated portfolio and they say the exact thing you just did likes its a mantra for them to repeat sevral times a day. That mantra made better sense a few years ago then today regardless of the fact that the market has gone up healthlily when you have a longer term time horizon. Buy I am not so sure the understood laws of the market apply going forward for several years maybe and its been a fact that the indexes (and associated funds like Vanguard...) have been getting whipped compared to the actively managed ones reagrless of the differential in MER fee between the two the past 3 years and maybe the next several going forward. I am not sugesting someone invest in either or, just that I don't trust what has happened heretofore to be my guide going forward.

2 to 3 years doesn't even factor for me for my stock investments.

Money I need in the next 2 to 3 years isn't in an investment type that can theoretically lose 20% to 50% of it's value at any time.

And for my longterm investments I don't feel like agonizing on a daily basic over where the market will go, where the economy will go, where everyone else will go...

*shrugs*

[hershie]

Originally posted by FATPad

2 to 3 years doesn't even factor for me for my stock investments.

Money I need in the next 2 to 3 years isn't in an investment type that can theoretically lose 20% to 50% of it's value at any time.

And for my longterm investments I don't feel like agonizing on a daily basic over where the market will go, where the economy will go, where everyone else will go...

*shrugs*

i like your style
i feel the same way.
my days of watching CNBC all day long are over.

[blckwidow]

Originally posted by hershie


i like to keep up with all the biz mags (Forbes, Fortune...) and all I can say is that the "rules of the road" you state come from another time and place and do not necessarily apply going forward. I am not necessarily disagreeing, but there are dozens of smarter people then I who have written that the time of the broad index funds outperforming the actively managed ones is over and is an illusion of an outperforming stockmarket where the tide lifts all boats - but in this kind of a climate - the indexes are weighed down by the relative size of a few large companies that can be lond term dogs and weigh down the entire index. So, what to do. I know not. I just don't trust accepted wisdom any longer.

Just how have the "rules of the road" changed?

This is the same crap that people said during the depression. My grandfater listened to them, and put all his money in EE bonds. My grandmother (his wife), a woman who didn't have a job, didn't have her own money, didn't listen. She scrimped and saved a little here and a little there, and invested it all in stocks (about $5000 total). Who do you think left my brother and I a nice big chunk of stock worth a whole lot of money? (I would never advise anyone to put all their money in just one or two stocks, but they didn't have index funds back then) Who do you think left us with a whole lot less even though he invested TONS more than she did?

My mom used to be a stockbroker (retired), 2 of my brothers manage bond funds, and one of my brothers is an analyst. When I had money that I wanted to start investing, I went to each of them separately and asked their opinion. Each and every one of the said "Vanguard total stock market index fund."

The rules of the road haven't changed, you just don't have enough experience with the market to know that people are ALWAYS saying that the rules of the road have changed.

Karen

[hershie]

Originally posted by blckwidow


Just how have the "rules of the road" changed?

This is the same crap that people said during the depression. My grandfater listened to them, and put all his money in EE bonds. My grandmother (his wife), a woman who didn't have a job, didn't have her own money, didn't listen. She scrimped and saved a little here and a little there, and invested it all in stocks (about $5000 total). Who do you think left my brother and I a nice big chunk of stock worth a whole lot of money? (I would never advise anyone to put all their money in just one or two stocks, but they didn't have index funds back then) Who do you think left us with a whole lot less even though he invested TONS more than she did?

My mom used to be a stockbroker (retired), 2 of my brothers manage bond funds, and one of my brothers is an analyst. When I had money that I wanted to start investing, I went to each of them separately and asked their opinion. Each and every one of the said "Vanguard total stock market index fund."

The rules of the road haven't changed, you just don't have enough experience with the market to know that people are ALWAYS saying that the rules of the road have changed.

Karen

hey, i never claimed to be an expert; some others were providing investment advice and i thought it would be appropriate to show an other point of view. You and your family's advice do not make for a universal truth. But then again, I am very much in agreement with you and have kept all my money in my equity funds during the raping of the past couple of years becuase I have a long term time horizon and I have been around long enough in the market that people are sheep and sell at the bottom at the worst possible time and lock in their paper losses after they finally capitualte that nothing will ever get better. But, that being said, I wouldn't trust S&P 500 mutual funds with any significant % of my total and you should read more from some additional experts besides your family that counter what you think so you can see what I see.

[quiet]

i've asked this question before, might as well ask it again as this seems like a good thread to mention it. let's say you have no debt, some investments (a couple 100K) own two homes straight out, and have around 3.5 - 4 M USD net retained after taxes sitting in a high interest bank account.

what should be done with that 3.5 M that is low risk, and low maintenance. retirement style income for someone under 40.

besides talking to a financial advisor :P your thoughts...

[KRL]

OMG this is all so comical. Back before the 87 CRASH I setup a financial information network in partnership with one of the biggest firms on Wall Street. I dealt with analysts who handled the major clients for this firm. I got real chummy with these guys. They let me in on so much stuff that goes on in the financial services industry it was mind boggling, and I will tell you flat out after that experience I had zero faith in the integrity of the so called professionals handling so much investment money.

The investment industry is right up there with the legal profession in terms of greed, colusion, insider deals, and outright crookedness. Its a snake pit and they laugh when people send them checks.

The best investment advice is keep your money in your own businesses and other venture deals or investments where you have control over them.

[blckwidow]

Originally posted by quiet
i've asked this question before, might as well ask it again as this seems like a good thread to mention it. let's say you have no debt, some investments (a couple 100K) own two homes straight out, and have around 3.5 - 4 M USD net retained after taxes sitting in a high interest bank account.

what should be done with that 3.5 M that is low risk, and low maintenance. retirement style income for someone under 40.

besides talking to a financial advisor :P your thoughts...

Ok quiet........ I wasn't going to say anything........... I've been wanting to say something for a while, but I wasn't going to, but you asked, so now I am.

Please keep in mind that I have no idea what site you own, if you shoot your own content, etc.

I know that your site is incredibly lucrative and that sometime later this year you plan to just walk away, close it down, and retire.

ARE YOU ON DRUGS?!?!?!?!

My biggest suggestion would be that you either:

a) sell the site to a big company for shitloads of money, or
b) work something out with an indiviual for them to take it over and you get a percentage of the profits for a period of time. (something like you get 60% the first year, 50% the second, and so on) Something with contracts and some kind of monetary oversight set up so that you don't get screwed.

You built something that took a lot of your time and effort. Yeah it's a porn site, but it's a very succesful business that you created and I think it's a shame to just shut it down like it never existed. Plus I think you're a bit foolish to turn your back on the money you could get from it. Ok, I think you are a lot foolish.

Yes you have 3.5-4 mill, but it has to last you for a whole lot of years, and through a whole lot of inflation. The rule of thumb that I have read is that on a yearly basis you should never withdraw more than 4% of the total. That should supposedly enable you to get through the ups and downs and never run out of money.

Keep 2 years of expenses in cash. Keep another 5 years in CD's or government bonds (like I bonds). Of the remaining, keep 20% in bond funds. For the rest, I would look into stuff like.... Vanguard has some tax managed funds, I would put some in the total stock market index fund........ spread it around a little.

Pick some indiviual stocks, across different sectors... companies you believe in. But never more than 5% of the whole in any one company.

Whatever you do, don't do any large lump sum investing. Pick where you want to put it, and then dollar cost average it.

Seriously though, I would read everything you can....... Motley Fool, Smart Money, Kiplingers, everything. Then shop around for a financial advisor who works for a fee, NOT a comission. And I mean really shop around, talk to as many as you can find. Listen to what they say and see how it fits with what you read and think, and find someone you can trust. You worked very hard for that money, don't piss it away, be careful.

Karen

ICQ #146194

[quiet]

Originally posted by blckwidow
[B]

Ok quiet........ I wasn't going to say anything........... I've been wanting to say something for a while, but I wasn't going to, but you asked, so now I am.

Please keep in mind that I have no idea what site you own, if you shoot your own content, etc.

I know that your site is incredibly lucrative and that sometime later this year you plan to just walk away, close it down, and retire.

ARE YOU ON DRUGS?!?!?!?!

nothing too hard something you should keep in mind, i don't live some crazy lifestyle. 2 homes, some investments, no debt, multiple millions in cash after taxes by the end of this year.

my only (expensive) weaknesses are: cars, travel and education.

if you really had any idea of my business you'd understand that selling it is a fantasy. so is giving it to someone for a percentage.

believe me, i've poured over the idea, and have come to the conclusion that such an idea is a joke. it will never happen. simply because my business is mostly intellectual and dynamic, and with out me guiding it at all times, it will very likely fail.

there are others that know exactly what i'm talking about

[blckwidow]

quiet,
Can we talk on ICQ?

Karen

ICQ #146194

[Pornwolf]

Sounds like you have a classic case of delegation anxiety. Most entrepreneurs have this same problem. Sometimes you have to take the leap of faith and trust the delegation of work to someone else.

At the end of the day, even if the biz falters a bit, you will still make more money by having someone else run your biz than if you invested in something else. Do I have to remind you this is the porn biz? Once you get going in this biz there are few outside businesses that can compare. This is the reason you have so many people that are successful from other businesses getting into this biz. We realize that compared to everything else this is a walk in the park! Yeah, it has it's curve but c'mon man...p0rn!

Even if you only made 20% of what you normally do (which is a worst case scenario) you are really beating every other market you could invest in! You would have to buy Manhattan or San Francisco property to even hope to compete with that in real estate. That's just a 20% return we are talking!

Hell, you would be better off if you setup a years worth of update rotations, started an affilliate program and just hired an affilliate/content manager to keep feeding the beast.

Quiet, if you have found god and are planning to become one of those missionary dudes that wear the black slacks, white shirts and ties in the summertime that try to teach the word of Jeeeeezus te each and every one, just be honest and let us know you are washing your hands of porn.

[quiet]

Originally posted by blckwidow
quiet,
Can we talk on ICQ?

Karen

ICQ #146194

i don't use icq. but you can email me info at ultra-sites dot com.

i was just looking for discussion. i won't take anyone's advice from a message board lol

[EscortBiz]

Originally posted by blckwidow
quiet,
Can we talk on ICQ?

Karen

ICQ #146194

Let the Gold Diggers start talkin

How long before they meet, Just gotta love this (Can it be that Quiet is Joe Millionaire?)

LMAO

[Pornwolf]

She has a short ICQ number. Sexy.

[EscortBiz]

Originally posted by Pornwolf
She has a short ICQ number. Sexy.

And I though im the only one in Brooklyn up right now, Good monrin wolf

[quiet]

Originally posted by EscortBiz


Let the Gold Diggers start talkin

How long before they meet, Just gotta love this (Can it be that Quiet is Joe Millionaire?)

LMAO

ROFL

[Pornwolf]

Get da fuk oudda heres! You are up too! Mornin' Escort! Some of us don't seem to start functioning correctly before 12am

[freeadultcontent]

I was also damn curious as to why the walk away approach. That is why I was very curious as to what Quiet ran. After scouring this board I finally found a link.

I understand what it is like to let someone else run the show. Specially with something you have built and grown into something so big. I too would lean towards killing it myself then letting someone else destroy it. Yet I would with great hesitation let someone else run it for me. Worst case is they begin to mess it up and you come in and give it the axe like planned. It is nearly a win win gamble for you. If your lucky you can check into your site after 3 or 6 months, if all is looking good you got yourself a cashcow that takes no time or energy from you.

It would be a tough job finding someone to run it to your standards, it could be done though I am sure. You may have all the money you think you may ever need, and your probably right. Then again shit happens, women, medical conditions, kids, you name it. Yet you are prepared to slit the throat of a well oiled working business, one that could last for years if not decades or longer. Something if ran correctly could provide you, your family, or anything else with funds. Remember you can never turn the clock back and just redo what you have accomplished in this new business medium.

[blckwidow]

Originally posted by EscortBiz


Let the Gold Diggers start talkin

How long before they meet, Just gotta love this (Can it be that Quiet is Joe Millionaire?)

LMAO

You can think whatever you want, but I am not a gold digger, and I have no romantic interest in quiet and never will. In fact, I'm getting married April 26 to the most amazing man in the world! I love Nathan (my fiance), and no amount of money, or lack of money, will ever change that.

Karen

[EscortBiz]

Originally posted by blckwidow


You can think whatever you want, but I am not a gold digger, and I have no romantic interest in quiet and never will. In fact, I'm getting married April 26 to the most amazing man in the world! I love Nathan (my fiance), and no amount of money, or lack of money, will ever change that.

Karen

OMG I saw that story comin a mile away, regards to nathan LOL

I did not say Romantic interest I said Gold Digger

[quiet]

lol

the facts are, that i fucked almost all of my relationships over due to 'the business'.

i've worked 15 hours a day, every day, every week, every year, for years and years on end. i lost my 4 year girlfriend over it (which i have deep regrets about). my brother and i are no longer close because of my incredibly strong work drive and dedication to my business.

if you haven't experienced it, you really can't comment. there are other things i want to do in my life, and they have nothing to do with making money.

maybe that's why i have the balls (or sheer stupidity) to walk away. life is short, and there are more things to do than collect money.

[Pornwolf]

Dude, I respect that but I also know 4mil isn't a lot of money anymore. Even invested it can and will still go fast when you are used to a certain way of living. Get over the separation anxiety and let the business run by itself until it can run no more.

[quiet]

Originally posted by Pornwolf
Dude, I respect that but I also know 4mil isn't a lot of money anymore. Even invested it can and will still go fast when you are used to a certain way of living. Get over the separation anxiety and let the business run by itself until it can run no more.

before we talk 4 mill, there is also 2 homes, a couple 100K investments, and no debt. you don't get it. and that's cool. i will squeeze every penny out of my sites before they are shut down. this takes much thinking and planning (which has already been worked out).

i won't be a slave to money for the rest of my life

[freeadultcontent]

Originally posted by quiet
lol

the facts are, that i fucked almost all of my relationships over due to 'the business'.

i've worked 15 hours a day, every day, every week, every year, for years and years on end. i lost my 4 year girlfriend over it (which i have deep regrets about). my brother and i are no longer close because of my incredibly strong work drive and dedication to my business.

if you haven't experienced it, you really can't comment. there are other things i want to do in my life, and they have nothing to do with making money.

maybe that's why i have the balls (or sheer stupidity) to walk away. life is short, and there are more things to do than collect money.

Ive lost before, Ive built a major business before, and I have lost family and friends over it. I understand all of those reasons.

I respect that. All damn good reasons to hang up your hat. Life is more than making money, that is for sure.

I do not think its stupidity, hell I doubt that can even be factored in with what you have done. I personally just never saw the why's before, aside from that your young and want to travel and live life.

[Pornwolf]

It's too bad you missed the 60's and 70's. You could have been a rich hippie! Free Love baby!

[quiet]

Originally posted by Pornwolf
It's too bad you missed the 60's and 70's. You could have been a rich hippie! Free Love baby!

once you make enough to never work again, it has strange effects. the most obvious that you are no longer a slave to money....

[Pornwolf]

Yeah, I guess it all depends on your lifestyle man. $320 million for me.