The mp3 argument.

[Fletch XXX]

What is the big deal about mp3's?

Have not people made 'blank tape copies' of music for ages?

I don't really see the difference between buying a TDK blank tape and copying your friendsmusic like we did when we were young, and an mp3 of the songs; I think its just a modern version of the blank tape - its just a blank disc.

Whats your take?

[asuna]

tis true!

[[Labret]]

Because you can make endless copies of mp3 with no loss of quality. Tape to tape there was always a loss of quality. That combined with broadband is a potent mix. I wouldnt have been able to trade 5000 tapes as a kid, but in the last 2 years I have been able to accumulate that many cd rips just trading with no more than 10 other individuals. I think thats what pisses them off the most. Availability and quality.

I love mp3. And its just gets better, hopefully soon the bring out a new compression that will reduce the filesize even more so it becomes easy for dialup users to share in the joy. Then they will really have a hissy fit.

[cherrylula]

people should make music because they enjoy it, not to make a jazillion dollars and be on mtv.

fuck a bunch of sellouts anyhow.

[Fletch XXX]

What I have gotten my hands on in the last 4 days is nothing short of amazing.

I couldn't stop if I wanted to.

My ears are ringing.

[Hot Tropical Babes]

Originally posted by cherrylula
people should make music because they enjoy it, not to make a jazillion dollars and be on mtv.

fuck a bunch of sellouts anyhow.

[MPBWhitney]

Originally posted by cherrylula
people should make music because they enjoy it, not to make a jazillion dollars and be on mtv.

fuck a bunch of sellouts anyhow.

Good one.. i agree!

[erotictrance]

I realize this argument will fall on deaf ears, but what the hell ...

Wait until you work your ass off producing music, watch it get ripped off in droves ... and then see how you feel ...

I predict that in ten years the record companies will be out of business because of piracy ...

And you can slam the record companies all you want, but that IS the music that people like ...

And it won't be produced anymore because there won't be any money in it ...

[eru]

Originally posted by erotictrance
I realize this argument will fall on deaf ears, but what the hell ...

Wait until you work your ass off producing music, watch it get ripped off in droves ... and then see how you feel ...

I predict that in ten years the record companies will be out of business because of piracy ...

And you can slam the record companies all you want, but that IS the music that people like ...

But it won't be produced anymore because there won't be any money in it ...

Everybody start downloading MP3's! The end is near!

[[Labret]]

I bet if they started charging 5.00 for the cd that cost them 50 cents to produce, instead of the 15 to 20 they charge now, more people would be more inclined to buy cds.

My only bitch about mp3. No lyrics sheet. I like my lyrics sheets.

[Fletch XXX]

Originally posted by erotictrance
I realize this argument will fall on deaf ears, but what the hell ...

Wait until you work your ass off producing music, watch it get ripped off in droves ... and then see how you feel ...

I predict that in ten years the record companies will be out of business because of piracy ...

And you can slam the record companies all you want, but that IS the music that people like ...

And it won't be produced anymore because there won't be any money in it ...

I wonder if I have worked in studios longer than you.

I have worked in recording studios from new orleans to Los Angeles and Hollywood homie.

The bands I run with are happy to get their shit out any way they can.

Ive worked with Electronic Music since 93. Rolled with old metal/core/ punk bands like Exhorder, grew up in the music industry in new orleans.

;)

[erotictrance]

Originally posted by [Labret]
I bet if they started charging 5.00 for the cd that cost them 50 cents to produce, instead of the 15 to 20 they charge now, more people would be more inclined to buy cds.

My only bitch about mp3. No lyrics sheet. I like my lyrics sheets.

Total bullshit. A CD doesn't cost 50 cents to produce, when you consider that fact the marketing costs alone can run into the millions ...

Everybody only looks at the cost of the CD alone ... That has very little to do with costs of breaking an act and launching a hit record ...

[Corona]

Originally posted by Fletch XXX
What I have gotten my hands on in the last 4 days is nothing short of amazing.

What are you using?

[[Labret]]

Originally posted by erotictrance


Total bullshit. A CD doesn't cost 50 cents to produce, when you consider that fact the marketing costs alone can run into the millions ...

Everybody only looks at the cost of the CD alone ... That has very little to do with costs of breaking an act and launching a hit record ...

It costs me less than 50 cents to press a cd, less than 40 cents to press a 7 inch.

If cd's cost 5 bucks, they could recoup their marketing costs I am sure.. as they would probably move 10 times the amount of units as they would when they were charging 20 bucks a pop for the same piece of fluff shit.

There is no incentive to spend 20 bucks on a cd when you can just download it. And thats reality now. Drop it to 5 bucks and I bet they move a shitload of cds.

Maybe they shouldnt pay brittany spears several million per record. Plenty of artists would gladly make music just for rent money. its all greed plain and simple. I feel no sympathy for them.

[erotictrance]

Originally posted by Fletch XXX


I wonder if I have worked in studios longer than you.

I have worked in recording studios from new orleans to Los Angeles and Hollywood homie.

The bands I run with are happy to get their shit out any way they can.

Ive worked with Electronic Music since 93. Rolled with old metal/core/ punk bands like Exhorder, grew up in the music industry in new orleans.

;)

I'm not talking about indie artists. I'm talking about mainstream hit records --- the stuff that people mostly want and love to steal.

If an indie band wants to give away their songs that's fine.

But piracy threatens indie bands too. If an indie band wants to sell their records independent from the major labels --- how are they going to do that when all of their songs can be stolen?

MP3 may help indies with promotion, but ultimately, it also bites them.

And BTW, I grew up in New Orleans ...

[Fletch XXX]

Originally posted by erotictrance


I'm not talking about indie artists. I'm talking about mainstream hit records --- the stuff that people mostly want and love to steal.

If an indie band wants to give away their songs that's fine.

I dont listen to anything popular.

Heres a good new Orleans band.

The guitarist was in Crowbar and Acid Bath.

http://www.goatwhore.net

Those guys reeeeally get bummed when people download there songs.

hahahaha

[erotictrance]

Originally posted by [Labret]


There is no incentive to spend 20 bucks on a cd when you can just download it. And thats reality now.

I actually agree with that, which is why I still believe the business will be dead in ten years ...

As far as cheaper prices helping sales ... maybe.

But as long as people can steal the music for free, who says they'll pay anything?

I doubt any lower price points will make a difference, unless the piracy is controlled --- which is unlikely at this point.

[Fletch XXX]

Originally posted by [Labret]


It costs me less than 50 cents to press a cd, less than 40 cents to press a 7 inch.

Exactly.

Fuck, you can get colored vinyl for a few nickels more.

hahah

Now just think how cheap you get them when you press 1 million copies, preordered!

20 cents?

[erotictrance]

And I suppose all of you guys don't believe that piracy has something to do with the downturn in the porn biz these days either ....

Right ....

Whatever ...

[cherrylula]

Fuck big record companies. More talentless fucks abusing and exploiting someone elses creativity.

http://www.recordingartistscoalition.com/

I have helped support many a struggling band. Always will. But those big record companies need to die. Slowly.

Sure it costs $ to put out a cd. But when you're motherfucking Metallica and you know you are going to sell a fuckload of albums why do you need to whine about a few bucks.

[Fletch XXX]

Originally posted by Corona


What are you using?

Believe it or not, Kazaa.

I've gotten a few things I had been looking for, as well as countless quality burns of some new shit.

I have ordered discs and shirts of bands I have found in the past 4 days.

hehehe

[cherrylula]

and ya know, I know a band who was pretty successful on mp3 dot com a few years ago. Then all of a sudden things changed and til this day, they have been unable to edit any of the info on the site, login, or receive any of the fucking money those dirty bastards are now making, no doubt.

[cherrylula]

I have a friend who started his own punk label. He said to me that all the work he put into it was worth it just to see the expression on these guys faces, when at the shows the kids in the crowd knew the words to their songs. Because he was helping these young punk guys get their songs recorded, and out there. Discs, mp3s, whatever, however.

That is what music is all about.

[spanky]

I dunno about the US, but in Canada, when the recording industry makes noise government listens and levies http://neil.eton.ca/copylevy.shtml#proposed_levies

I have to admit, it was a strange feeling when I did a search on Kazaa for some of my software products and found one of them. Not as strange as seeing it for sale at a warez site for $15, but strange nonetheless.

[High Quality]

Originally posted by Fletch XXX
What is the big deal about mp3's?

Have not people made 'blank tape copies' of music for ages?

I don't really see the difference between buying a TDK blank tape and copying your friendsmusic like we did when we were young, and an mp3 of the songs; I think its just a modern version of the blank tape - its just a blank disc.

Whats your take?

If you had half a clue fletch, you would realize that when blank tapes came out there was also a huge fuss from the record and recording industry.

[Fletch XXX]

Originally posted by High Quality


If you had half a clue fletch, you would realize that when blank tapes came out there was also a huge fuss from the record and recording industry.

Half a clue?

Who cares, I buy ALL my cds from a store called Second Spin (secondspin.com) are you against used cd stores too?

If you had a half a clue, maybe you wouldnt take stabs before even engaging in conversation.

[aflex]

RNS 4 LIFE!

[High Quality]

Originally posted by Fletch XXX


Half a clue?

Who cares, I buy ALL my cds from a store called Second Spin (secondspin.com) are you against used cd stores too?

If you had a half a clue, maybe you wouldnt take stabs before even engaging in conversation.

Stabs at what? In your original post you make the claim that mp3s are no different than blank tapes and that blank tapes are some how acceptable. But the fact of the matter IS that when blank tapes came out they went through the same damn process. You should know this shit before suggesting that mp3s should be accepted just like blank tapes and tape recording are. This just shows your ignorance of the history of the record business. That is all.

[Fletch XXX]

Obviously blank tapes survived, so shall mp3s.

That was the point.

Theres no harm in them.

[High Quality]

And for the record I am not agreeing with the record business nor am I against you buying used CDs or downloading mp3s. I think that in the face of adversity good businessmen change their business models. My point was to set your shit straight, not to attack you in any way.

[[Labret]]

Originally posted by aflex
RNS 4 LIFE!

record label enemy #1

[High Quality]

Originally posted by Fletch XXX
Obviously blank tapes survived, so shall mp3s.

That was the point.

Theres no harm in them.

Oh there is definite harm in mp3s. However the record business is just going to have to change to the point where mp3s, or some future better technology become the vehicle for music delivery instead of the old CD/hardcopy method. This world evolving into the digital age and music has been digital for years now. I'm all for mp3s, but for every mp3 I download (and like) I try to compensate the creator directly like buying merchandise and seeing the bands at shows, etc. In my opinion this is how it SHOULD be done, which is why I dont have any moral issues with doing what I do.

[Fletch XXX]

If you read my original post, I say 'Whats your take?' I wasnt saying I was right or wrong, I was openiing a discussion, you seem to be bent on 'proving me wrong'

[High Quality]

Originally posted by Fletch XXX
If you read my original post, I say 'Whats your take?' I wasnt saying I was right or wrong, I was openiing a discussion, you seem to be bent on 'proving me wrong'

Not really - just setting the record straight so the discussion could be furthered without misinformation.

[Fletch XXX]

Originally posted by High Quality


Not really - just setting the record straight so the discussion could be furthered without misinformation.

What was the misinformation?

Have people not been making blank copies of music for ages?

[Fletch XXX]

I only asked a question, and gave my opinion.

You challenged that question with proof of my ignorance.

It doesnt make sense.

[High Quality]

Originally posted by Fletch XXX


What was the misinformation?

Have people not been making blank copies of music for ages?

*sigh*

I've already pointed it out. Just forget it fletch.

[St Lunatic]

Originally posted by erotictrance
I realize this argument will fall on deaf ears, but what the hell ...

Wait until you work your ass off producing music, watch it get ripped off in droves ... and then see how you feel ...

I predict that in ten years the record companies will be out of business because of piracy ...

And you can slam the record companies all you want, but that IS the music that people like ...

And it won't be produced anymore because there won't be any money in it ...

I agree. Would any of you be in this business if everyone could get all your exclusive content for free? nobody would purchase memberships therefore nobody would want to produce quality stuff anymore.

[pine]

Originally posted by cherrylula
people should make music because they enjoy it, not to make a jazillion dollars and be on mtv.

fuck a bunch of sellouts anyhow.

A lot of porn website hackers use the same argument.

[erotictrance]

Originally posted by cherrylula

Sure it costs $ to put out a cd. But when you're motherfucking Metallica and you know you are going to sell a fuckload of albums why do you need to whine about a few bucks.

What about the indie artist who isn't going to sell a bunch of albums, and is lucky just to make ends meet?

Metallica justifies ripping them off?

And justifies killing their chances of breaking free of the major labels cause you're pirating their songs?

If an indie artist wants to give away their songs, then fine. Obviously those people are happy to have day jobs ...

But I personally would like to be paid, and I know many other indie artists who feel the same.

If you want to make a living at music, piracy can easily force indie artists into the slavery of major labels ....

[erotictrance]

Originally posted by High Quality


I'm all for mp3s, but for every mp3 I download (and like) I try to compensate the creator directly like buying merchandise and seeing the bands at shows, etc. In my opinion this is how it SHOULD be done, which is why I dont have any moral issues with doing what I do.

Pleeeaaasssseeee. At least be honest about this.

You don't have any moral issues because you enjoy ripping people off.

If I had a dime every time someone said they would buy a product (when, in fact, they didn't) ... I'd be rich right now ...

Everybody says they buy something to compensate artists for piracy --- and it's total bullshit.

Watch CNBC any day of the week. Consumer surveys show people claim to buy certain products. But ACTUAL SALES RECORDS tell a completely different story.

In other words, people lie about what they buy ...

Especially when they're trying to justify piracy.

[SykkBoy]

Originally posted by cherrylula
people should make music because they enjoy it, not to make a jazillion dollars and be on mtv.

fuck a bunch of sellouts anyhow.

I'm glad you feel that way

I'm going to take all of your content and put it on all of my sites. I wouldn't want you to be a porn sellout or anything.

So, thanks for the content!

[[Labret]]

Originally posted by pine


A lot of porn website hackers use the same argument.

But... some of us use protection to stop it. I know I do quite successfully.

The music industry spent millions to develop a technology that a 14 year old Norwegian kid with a black marker figured out how to defeat in a matter of days. I bet that still stings and that guy who came up with his brilliant plan is out of work.

[erotictrance]

Originally posted by SykkBoy2


I'm glad you feel that way

I'm going to take all of your content and put it on all of my sites. I wouldn't want you to be a porn sellout or anything.

So, thanks for the content!

Good Point!

And while you're at it, send some over to me. LMAO!

[cherrylula]

really, I just hate big corporations.

I've grown up in Hollywood and am completely soured to those with stars in their eyes. I think an artist deserves to be paid, and paid well. But Hollywood will shred anything or anyone it can, just to make a buck.

There are more young wanna be rock stars and actors here than you can imagine. Its one big greed fest.

[Fletch XXX]

Originally posted by SykkBoy2


I'm glad you feel that way

I'm going to take all of your content and put it on all of my sites. I wouldn't want you to be a porn sellout or anything.

So, thanks for the content!

Did she say she was taking mp3s and making sites of them? There's a difference.

I think many artists have lost the prize as well.

I know too many bands that dont give a fuck about money to think that real bands have dollar signs in their eyes.

My friends throw freeshows for the punk kids in halls around here. Hammering out punk for all ages, all day punk shows not making a dime. Why? to pay the bills?

You think they care about mp3s?

This shit isnt about ripping WASP mp3s, (i know you trade mp3s dude, Ive given you some) - the bands I run with want people to hear their shit at all costs, fuck they put mp3.com sites up so people steal their music? No, so it gets spread and people hear it.

Why do bands put mp3s on their sites? Why do bands make mp3.com sites? Samples only or to spread the word.... fuck most people are begging for a listen nowadays.

Its not about ripping people off.

[erotictrance]

Originally posted by [Labret]


But... some of us use protection to stop it. I know I do quite successfully.

Well, I hope you haven't been Zspoofed, because I've seen a lot of major sites (with good security) get hacked with that one ...

And many security savy webmasters I know say they can't fight it ...

[UncleJimmy]

p2p and 'free shit' has dropped the profits in this biz in a huge way too, and it'll keep on going

come up with a nice new reality porn thing that you think is kicking? why the hell does a surfer need to pay for it when they can go get it off kazaa for free...full length hi-quality....

time to start selling chia-pets people can't copy or kazaa that shit lol

[[Labret]]

Originally posted by erotictrance


Well, I hope you haven't been Zspoofed, because I've seen a lot of major sites (with good security) get hacked with that one ...

And many security savy webmasters I know say they can't fight it ...

I work in gay. Not too many 16 year old script kiddies who want to see a man tongue another mans ass.

[UncleJimmy]

oh, and as for encryption

that's just like spam filters....

if a human made it it can be broke....might be harder to get around, but everything is breakable....

and at the point it becomes almost impossible to break, it becomes a true pain in the ass at the user end most likely....


very much like this terrorism game our country is playin in now...filters/encryption/taking away personal freedoms....

the bar can only go so low until it breaks....