Guns kill

[Evil Chris]

This guy must be a gun-totin crack smoker. No wonder there are so many gun deaths in the US....
http://www.***hia.org/artwest6.htm

[JamesK]

someone that compares a gun with firestone tires is definitly on crack.

[Evil Chris]

He's from the "Texas Concealed Handgun Instructor Association".

For fuck sakes... To think that an association like that even exists is scary.

[KingK7]

It's a cliche, but guns don't kill, people do.
Problem is you have so many morons with access to guns in the US.

[Pleasurepays]

Originally posted by KingK7
It's a cliche, but guns don't kill, people do.
Problem is you have so many morons with access to guns in the US.

i dissagree....

"guns dont kill people... poor people with guns kill people"

[KingK7]

Originally posted by Pleasurepays


i dissagree....

"guns dont kill people... poor people with guns kill people"

Haha, well said.

[Fletch XXX]

"I only kill to know I'm alive."

[JamesK]

Originally posted by Fletch XXX
"I only kill to know I'm alive."

lol you're on crack mate.

[mjrools23]

Originally posted by Pleasurepays


i dissagree....

"guns dont kill people... poor people with guns kill people"

u dont have to be poor to shoot somebody

[buran]

Guns don't kill, it's those little hard things.

So, how many other GFY'ers own guns? I've got three glocks, a 12ga shotgun, and an AR-15. I wish I could get a FN P90, but they're illegal in the united states.

I wish I lived someplace where everyone carried a gun with them all the time. First motherfucker who stands up and shots "This is a hijacking" gets shot 137 times.

[SleazyDream]

be afraid - be very afraid

[ControlThy]

Originally posted by buran

I wish I lived someplace where everyone carried a gun with them all the time. First motherfucker who stands up and shots "This is a hijacking" gets shot 137 times.

Yes that would be so cool.
Especially when your 10 year old daughter gets in the middle of the firefight and gets hit by 10 bullets and then has to spend her remaining lifetime in a wheelchair.

Very cool indeed.

[DrGuile]

Saw Bowling for Columbine this weekend.

Very good film. Covers some very good issues...

also, I really like the part about Canada where the cop cant remember the last murder in his town... ;p

or the "Corporate Cop" show pitch ;)

[KingK7]

Originally posted by ControlThy


Yes that would be so cool.
Especially when your 10 year old daughter gets in the middle of the firefight and gets hit by 10 bullets and then has to spend her remaining lifetime in a wheelchair.

Very cool indeed.

Yeah, wouldnt that be swell?

Every other household in Norway has a H&K G3, MP5 or a handgun, depending on your military status. Add hunting rifles and shotguns to that, and we have close to the highest "firearm per citizen" count in the world. Yet very few shooting incidents. Why? Because the people that have the guns, are trained how to operate them, and not every idiot who wants one, gets it.

[ThunderBalls]

Originally posted by KingK7


Yet very few shooting incidents. Why? Because the people that have the guns, are trained how to operate them, and not every idiot who wants one, gets it.

I believe there's a lot of truth to this, in Switzerland every male is issued a rifle yet very few shooting incidents because they are all required military training.

I think one of the problems in the US is by the time someone reaches 15 they have seen over 20,000 shootings from TV and movies thus being desensitized. I used to think this argument was bullshit until my 4 year old started watching power rangers and went to school and karate chopped half the kids in the class.

[SykkBoy]

Originally posted by Evil Chris
He's from the "Texas Concealed Handgun Instructor Association".

For fuck sakes... To think that an association like that even exists is scary.

I have a concealed weapon permit
THAT is scary ;)

Guns don't kill people, bullets do.......

[Evil Chris]

Originally posted by SykkBoy2
I have a concealed weapon permit
THAT is scary ;)

I'll agree that it is. Why do you have a concealed weapon permit?

[SykkBoy]

Originally posted by Evil Chris

I'll agree that it is. Why do you have a concealed weapon permit?

because I can ;)

when they passed the concealed weapons permit law, I lived in a bad neighborhood and worked for a guy who wasn't real popular....

to get the permit I had to go through a battery of tests and background checks.....despite my board personnna, I'm a law abiding citizen who gives back to his community and lives cleanly....I haven't actually carried a gun in years (in fact, mine is now in storage (while I have a background of gun safety and have been trained to use a weapon and am also a good shot (was participating NRA tourneys when I was 14) my kids don't have that background).....guns are about responsibility...sadly in this country, some people seem to lack that, but I'll be damned if I should be deprived of a right just beacuse someone else is a fucking idiot....

my gun views are probably different than most due to the fact grew up in Wyoming where basically everyone had a gun and was trained to use it (and there was no crime) and you could wear a gun as long as it was in plain view....

[Sly_RJ]

Originally posted by SykkBoy2


because I can ;)

when they passed the concealed weapons permit law, I lived in a bad neighborhood and worked for a guy who wasn't real popular....

to get the permit I had to go through a battery of tests and background checks.....despite my board personnna, I'm a law abiding citizen who gives back to his community and lives cleanly....I haven't actually carried a gun in years (in fact, mine is now in storage (while I have a background of gun safety and have been trained to use a weapon and am also a good shot (was participating NRA tourneys when I was 14) my kids don't have that background).....guns are about responsibility...sadly in this country, some people seem to lack that, but I'll be damned if I should be deprived of a right just beacuse someone else is a fucking idiot....

my gun views are probably different than most due to the fact grew up in Wyoming where basically everyone had a gun and was trained to use it (and there was no crime) and you could wear a gun as long as it was in plain view....

Ever think about teaching your kids proper maintenance and use of guns? If I ever have kids, I definitely want to make sure my kids know how to properly use them. By using guns, you learn to respect them and their power. Respect is good.

I learned how to properly shoot a gun when I was 8.

[redshift]

Originally posted by Evil Chris

I'll agree that it is. Why do you have a concealed weapon permit?

I too have a concealed weapon permit - why do I have it?
Because I can. I dont carry a weapon with me in my car
my guns are locked up in a gun safe at home.

Im thinking about buying a fully automatic AK-47.
It's a very long and lengthly process to own one of these legally
because of all the BATF paper work.
why do I want? 'cause I can

[hitman699]

I think if more people carried guns shit like robberies and rapes would drop dramatically as a criminal would never know if the person they are mugging was armed.. and If they mug the wrong person and get shot and killed ooops too bad. No loss as far as Im concerned

[redshift]

as a matter of fact im fixin to go purchase another gun right now
a marlin 882SSV .22 Magnum Rifle


BTW any of you wanna know why there are very few car jacking's in louisiana?



'cause you can shoot that motherfucker - legally

[MarkTiarra]

I own a number of guns too. I enjoy target shooting. The only gun laws I tend to agree with are making it take time to get one because it solves alot of passionate crime problems.

But in the event of you not otherwise "normal" citizen - a true criminal, creating laws to stop people from carring guns isn't going to solve any murders. If you get life or the death penalty for killing someone, how in the fuck is a 5 or 10 years sentance for owning one gonna stop a criminal from buying one? We can't keep them from buying drugs or anything else they want so why write a law that takes guns away from a shop keeper or a guy who likes target practice like me, etc?

People who don't find any enjoyment in shooting always make the argument that it's ridiculous to keep guns legal for the few people that like to use them for sport. But hey, you know what? I don't drink alcohol and don't enjoy it in the least. People get drunk and act stupid and fight and drive and kill people WAY more often than an idiot with a gun does so why is it that alcohol is okay and guns aren't.

Either thing in the hands of an irresponsible moron is dangerous. If you let one be legal, I don't see how you can't let the other. The only reason guns come under "moral" attack and alcohol doesn't is that the % of the population that enjoys shooting for sport is much lower than the % that drink.

[Evil Chris]

Originally posted by MarkTiarra
People who don't find any enjoyment in shooting always make the argument that it's ridiculous to keep guns legal for the few people that like to use them for sport. But hey, you know what? I don't drink alcohol and don't enjoy it in the least. People get drunk and act stupid and fight and drive and kill people WAY more often than an idiot with a gun does so why is it that alcohol is okay and guns aren't.

Either thing in the hands of an irresponsible moron is dangerous. If you let one be legal, I don't see how you can't let the other. The only reason guns come under "moral" attack and alcohol doesn't is that the % of the population that enjoys shooting for sport is much lower than the % that drink.

OK so in the article, the dude compares firearms to firestone tires, and now Mark you compare them to alcohol is it? Or automobiles in general? Either way these are bad comparisons.
Firearms don't exist for 'sport', they exist to ultimitely kill.

This can't be said for alcohol or automobiles or anything else you want to compare to firearms to make you feel better about the fact that gun lovers have been socially conditioned by generations of people who believe in their constitutional right to bear arms. Something a bunch of quakers wrote down on paper and put a seal on waaaay to long ago. There's no way that I would teach my son how to fire or clean a handgun. There's no way I would want to raise a child in a society that feels it's important to do so.

Times change. We don't think the same way we did when that constitution was written. Unfortunately, the side-effects of "right to bear arms" has made it almost a necessity to bear them because that right itself has had a direct cause on the increase of crime that nesessitates them in the first place.

[Sly_RJ]

Originally posted by Evil Chris


Times change. We don't think the same way we did when that constitution was written.

Stop saying "we". You live in Canada.

[Paul Markham]

Originally posted by hitman699
I think if more people carried guns shit like robberies and rapes would drop dramatically as a criminal would never know if the person they are mugging was armed.. and If they mug the wrong person and get shot and killed ooops too bad. No loss as far as Im concerned

Here is the problem in the US, to many people think it's still the wild west.

Go and research, if you own a gun you are more likely in a crime to have it turned on you, than use it yourself. The criminal is thinking "I take the gun and shoot this guy I do not go to prison" the "Citizen" is thinking "I shoot this guy, I go to prison"

Or you are more likely for one of your kids to shoot himself by accident, a neighbors kid or they to shoot him.

Go do the research.

I know all of you guys on this board are honest, reliable, trust worthy, level headed guys. I know this cos I been reading your post for the last year. I also believe in the tooth fairy!!

[J.R.]

Guns don't kill, people kill!!!


A car with an unsafe driver is potentially more lethal then a gun.

[Sly_RJ]

Originally posted by charly
Here is the problem in the US, to many people think it's still the wild west.

Go and research, if you own a gun you are more likely in a crime to have it turned on you, than use it yourself.

Could you please show us some of this research? I wish I had time to do it myself.

The criminal is thinking "I take the gun and shoot this guy I do not go to prison" the "Citizen" is thinking "I shoot this guy, I go to prison"

This may be true, I don't really know. The only thing I know is this... if someone tries fucking with me or whoever I'm with and I happen to have a gun, the gun sure as hell isn't going to sit quietly in my pocket. I must be one fucking crazy American to risk a jail sentence for fending off criminals. Some guy attacks me, I put one in his head... sure, 5 years down the drain for man slaughter, but one less criminal on the street.

Idiot. Someone tries attacking you, who in the hell is thinking about a possible jail sentence? The ONLY thing you're thinking of is getting out of the situation. If that involves shooting the fucker, so be it. My life is much more important than his.

[edmo]

I can't believe how many people still believe that a man souldn't be able to defend himself. The majority of deaths by guns are due to suicide. If you really want to make a difference in the deaths due to guns then donate your time to a suicide hotline.

[redshift]

I do have one very controversial opinion thou. I personally think that everyone that owns a gun should have training in using that weapon!

Two stories that if the person had been trained they would either still be alive or their loved one would be.

My partner owns 23 fast food restaurants in north Louisiana. His policy has always been to give a robber what he wants with no resistance and no guns are allowed in the store for "protection"
One of his managers was closing one night when some fool came in waving a gun demanding money. The manager gave the dude money and he started to leave, well this manager decided that he was going to be a hero and pulled out his pistol and took a couple of shots at the robber. Well he missed but the robber did not!!!

First if the manager did not have a gun for protection he would still be alive today, or if he had proper training in using weapon he "might" still be alive today.



A man was awakened one night by a noise in his house. He grabbed his gun and walked down the hall to where the noise was coming from. The intruder walked out of a door and yelled something and was shot dead.

When the police arrived they asked the fellow if he knew of anyone that owned a black SUV. The guy dropped to his knees because he realized that he had killed his only son.


Now if these people had been trained in the proper use of a firearm both of these instances could have been avoided.
Now I?m not talking about training in the sense of how to shoot, how the gun works or how to be a better marksman.
The training I would like to see is when and how to a weapon in self-defense. Not just a class with a one-hour boring assed film.
But hands on training similar to what the police get but toned down abit

[Wenchy]

Here in Colorado, we have a "make my day" law... somebody comes into your house, you have the right to shoot and kill them, no questions asked. But you'd better hope the guy doesn't manage to get outside and bleed on your lawn or your sidewalk, or you're going to do some serious jail time.

On the other hand, if I go out and buy a Rottweiler and train it to kill on command and that animal kills or maims an intruder, I could be looking at a year in court facing "possession of a vicious animal" charges in addition to whatever the intruder wants to file against me (given that he's still alive)... thousands of dollars in court costs and possible fines and maybe even jail time for choosing to defend my property and the lives of myself and my son MY way (ie, without a firearm). Oh, and my dog would be destroyed, also.

I do not own guns because I had a close call with one (wrong place, wrong time) when I was younger... it's purely a personal thing. I don't really have a problem with responsible individuals who are properly trained having handguns... to each his own. However, when the NRA or other gun lobbying groups start determining that it's better for me to own a gun than a trained guard dog and then they get the governmental bodies brainwashed into believing them... THAT I have problems with, major problems in fact. Tells me a helluva lot about the mindset of the country I live in, too, and not a lot of what it's telling me is good.

[SykkBoy]

Redshift, I agree that training is very important. The reason a lot of gun users end up injuring themselves is due to lack of proper training.


Sly, I do plan on teaching my children about gun satefy, but they are 7, 6 and 2 so are a few years off yet. When they are of appropriate age, they will get full training, be taught respect for guns and don't point at anything you don't intend to shoot. My son will be getting his first BBGun for Winter Soltice this year and even something like a BBGun will be treated with the respect of any other gun. This goes back to training.


EvilChris? Guns aren't for sport? I'd beg to differ...you will be joining us for the skeet shooting during InterNext, right? There is nothing like blasting clay pigeons with a shotgun...unless you support pottery rights too? ;)))

BTW, for those who've expressed an interest, I'm working with the range about us renting the whole facility out so we can have "adult" fun....no alcohol is allowed on the range, but there are plenty of places to grab a drink afterwards....

[Evil Chris]

Originally posted by Sly_RJ

Stop saying "we". You live in Canada.

Believe me when I tell you I am thankful for that.

Originally posted by Sly_RJ

Idiot. Someone tries attacking you, who in the hell is thinking about a possible jail sentence? The ONLY thing you're thinking of is getting out of the situation. If that involves shooting the fucker, so be it. My life is much more important than his.

Dude... you are not John McLean, and this isn't Die Hard. This is probably the scariest thing about firearms... listening to stories of "what I would do". You know what? Most of you would fumble the gun out of your pocket and drop it to the ground all the while pissing your pants before your trembling finger would ever find the trigger.

[Evil Chris]

Originally posted by SykkBoy2
EvilChris? Guns aren't for sport? I'd beg to differ...you will be joining us for the skeet shooting during InterNext, right? There is nothing like blasting clay pigeons with a shotgun...unless you support pottery rights too? ;)))

Sykk... skeet shooting is training for the hunt. Ultimate goal? Killing fowl to put food on the table. Of which I have nothing against, of course.

[ChrisH]

So if I use a wrench to slaughter my entire family should wrenches be out lawed??

People kill!

[MarkTiarra]

EVIL CHRIS:

You have been a shining example of my whole argument, thank you. People who think THEIR view is the only view. You say guns can't be for sport and are ultimately for killing. You say my comparison to alcohol is not a good one.

Well what the fuck is alcohol for if not to make you drunk? You can make good tasting beverages WITHOUT alcohol. So don't give me some BS about how alcohol is benevolent and not comparable. Seeing as YOU never used a gun for sport nor appreciate it in that way, YOU can't make the connection that for SOME people, guns are not for killing. I get alot of joy out of target shooting. When the guns are in my house they are in pieces in a safe. I have no desire to use them on anything but a piece of paper with a black circle on it. So how can the gun be about killing FOR ME?

Taking guns away from people doesn't make them stop hurting one another. Taking drugs away from them hasn't kept them from getting stoned. Taking alcohol away never kept them from getting drunk (just created a criminal market). Taking the ability to express ourselved sexually (even here on the Internet) away doesn't make people not want sex or find ways to share the pictures and videos.

You want people to stop hurting each other don't put a bandaid on the symptom. Change the beliefs the people have that lead them to cause one another harm

[Brown Bear]

You guys should go see Bowling For Columbine, very interesting movie.

Check my sig.

[porn addict]

Evil Chris, I have been a competitive shooter with handguns for 14 years and haven't shot anyone yet....and i don't hunt. How do you explain this anomaly in your theory that guns exist to ultimately kill?

[gothweb]

Guns kill people. Because, let's face it, beating someone to death with your bare hands is a little harder to work yourself up to.

[Sly_RJ]

Originally posted by Evil Chris

Dude... you are not John McLean, and this isn't Die Hard. This is probably the scariest thing about firearms... listening to stories of "what I would do". You know what? Most of you would fumble the gun out of your pocket and drop it to the ground all the while pissing your pants before your trembling finger would ever find the trigger.

Are you kidding me man? You think someone here wouldn't shoot back? Wouldn't defend themselves?

Maybe you would fumble the gun, you seem to be scared shitless of them. I wouldn't, I'm not scared of them because I know how they work and respect their power.

I really can't believe this. Everyone in here saying they would let someone bully them around. Good God. I really hope nobody ever attacks you, you're going to be fucked.

Chris, have you ever seen a gun? Held one? Fired one? It isn't near as bad as you make it sound.

Guns are simply a tool. When the tool is properly used and cared for, it produces satisfying results. But when that tool is neglected, isn't respected, or is isn't used properly, the results are less than satisfying.

[Sly_RJ]

Here's some interesting information. Charly, I'm starting the research process...

http://www.tincher.to/deaths.htm
"Suicides typically make up 56.5% of all gun deaths according to the Bureau Of Justice Statistics. In fact, drugs and suicides account for more than 2 out of every 3 gun deaths in the USA. "

http://www.drugwarfacts.org/causes.htm
Annual Causes of Death in the United States
Alcohol: 110,640
Tobacco: 430,700
Suicide: 30,575
Homicide: 18,272

[BV]

Originally posted by gothweb
Guns kill people. Because, let's face it, beating someone to death with your bare hands is a little harder to work yourself up to.

Should read:
People kill with guns because, let's face it, beating someone to death with your bare hands is a little harder to work yourself up to.

[Evil Chris]

Mark I never said that guns cannot be used for sport. Certainly they can be. What I said was that the ultimate role of the firearm is to kill. Are you saying that the original firarm wasn't invented to kill? Or was it invented purely for sport? Nevermind... I know what you're going to say.

Originally posted by Sly_RJ

Maybe you would fumble the gun, you seem to be scared shitless of them. I wouldn't, I'm not scared of them because I know how they work and respect their power.

Chris, have you ever seen a gun? Held one? Fired one? It isn't near as bad as you make it sound.

Guns are simply a tool. When the tool is properly used and cared for, it produces satisfying results. But when that tool is neglected, isn't respected, or is isn't used properly, the results are less than satisfying.

Sly I've fired a lot of different firearms. I was in the regular army for 15 years and even served overseas. I've fired all sorts of powerful assault rifles, pistols, sub-machine guns, an M72 rocket launcher, and I've even lobbed a few grenades on the grenade range. I can take them all apart, clean them, and put them back together again too.
I agree with you that guns are a tool to be employed properly by the right people. You hit that on the head. Joe Somebody walking down the street with a concealed weapon is not one of those people in my opinion. I do understand that regular people might think they need to carry a firearm. Maybe this is what I think is wrong... the situation that brought people into thinking that they need to arm themselves. If you really think about it, it's pathetic.

[12clicks]

people who advocate gun bans are fools who have no knowledge of history.
Guns in america aren't the problem. criminals are.

[BV]

In 1999 there were 17,388 homicides in the US.


6392 without guns
10,996 with guns

Plenty of people are killed without guns and in my opinion if you take the guns away from the "good guys" there will be even more homicides than now.

If you don't have a gun to protect your family maybe your family just isn't worth protecting.

We as Americans have the right to bear arms, if you don't like it get the fuck out!

Cheers,
BV

[redshift]

Originally posted by BV
In 1999 there were 17,388 homicides in the US.


6392 without guns
10,996 with guns

Plenty of people are killed without guns and in my opinion if you take the guns away from the "good guys" there will be even more homicides than now.

If you don't have a gun to protect your family maybe your family just isn't worth protecting.

We as Americans have the right to bear arms, if you don't like it get the fuck out!

Cheers,
BV

Here are some Interesting Statistics:
http://www.kc3.com/CCWSTATS.html

You will see that states that have a CCW have a lower violent crime rate!

why do you think that in home robberies are very rare around where I live? 'cause it's legal to kill that fucker if he's in my home that why!

And in Louisiana your car is considered an extention of your home. so if some fucker jumps in my car I can shoot to kill just like I can at home.

[Sly_RJ]

Originally posted by Evil Chris
Joe Somebody walking down the street with a concealed weapon is not one of those people in my opinion. I do understand that regular people might think they need to carry a firearm. Maybe this is what I think is wrong... the situation that brought people into thinking that they need to arm themselves. If you really think about it, it's pathetic.

I agree. Just like you need a license to drive a car, I think you should need one to own a gun. There's no reason not to. Something like this would force all legal gun owners to have proper gun training.

[redshift]

Originally posted by Sly_RJ

I agree. Just like you need a license to drive a car, I think you should need one to own a gun. There's no reason not to. Something like this would force all legal gun owners to have proper gun training.

Amen Brotha

[Cogitator]

In this country, over 90% of all violent crime is drug-related, whether directly or indirectly. The US has a serious drug problem. Even during the mid-70's when interdiction efforts slowed drug smuggling to a trickle for a couple years, people started to smoke rope, sniff glue, inject extract of banana peel, you name it. Whatever it is that drives Americans to lose themselves in drugs indirectly causes most of the violence here.

[[Labret]]

What kind of "Evil" dislikes guns?