Which programming language would you recommend?

[jjjay]

Okay, so I'm a programming newbie and thinking of getting to grips with some Windows programming.

Which language would you recommend?

It'll probably have to be visual basic or something along those lines. C# or C++ would probably confuse me too much.

I know .net is the latest, but is everyone using that now or still churning stuff out in older programming languages?

any suggestions would be greatly appreciated...

BTW - i've got a copy of VB6 kicking around, so that's a start, but I don't know if anyone creates apps in that any more?

Thanks!

[More Booze]

I do all my programming in VB6 but that is because I'm too lazy to learn another language.
But if you already know how to program in VB then I don't think it would be that hard to learn VB.net.

[jjjay]

I do all my programming in VB6 but that is because I'm too lazy to learn another language.
But if you already know how to program in VB then I don't think it would be that hard to learn VB.net.

what I'm wondering is if much software for consumers is created in VB .Net?

the fact that you need the .net framework installed first would probably confuse the hell out of the average PC user i would think.

[jjjay]

any other suggestions?

[FuqALot]

Delphi from borland. More stable than VB, a bit harder and not as much supported as VB, but it's a lot more stable.

[jjjay]

Delphi from borland. More stable than VB, a bit harder and not as much supported as VB, but it's a lot more stable.

is it still being updated and supported? I thought borland were going through a really bad time...

[FuqALot]

I have no idea, I believe they just released a new version. I'm still using a previous version and it's still great for any windows app.

[jjjay]

I have no idea, I believe they just released a new version. I'm still using a previous version and it's still great for any windows app.

great, thanks. I'll keep that in mind

I'll have to see how much they're selling it for...

[FuqALot]

There's a free try version available if you want to try Delphi.

[jjjay]

great, thanks. I'll keep that in mind

I'll have to see how much they're selling it for...

jesus christ - the prices I see quoted are $1,000 and upwards. wow.

[jjjay]

There's a free try version available if you want to try Delphi.

thanks. i'll give this a go

[Validus]

ASP.NET C# ;) I am loving it!

[jjjay]

ASP.NET C# ;) I am loving it!

thanks. I'll take a look.

does it cause problems though that your users would need to have the .net framework installed to run your software?

[com]

thanks. I'll take a look.

does it cause problems though that your users would need to have the .net framework installed to run your software?

oh but of course not! everyone runs windows! I'd recommend PHP5 and an in depth look into mysql. perl always comes in handy, and if you want to go further in depth I'd recommend shell scripting, python, ruby, and lisp.

edit: if you're a *nix poweruser expect is veryt powerful as well!

[jjjay]

oh but of course not! everyone runs windows! I'd recommend PHP5 and an in depth look into mysql. perl always comes in handy, and if you want to go further in depth I'd recommend shell scripting, python, ruby, and lisp.

edit: if you're a *nix poweruser expect is veryt powerful as well!

thanks. yup, I'm already getting into server side coding.

but longer term am thinking of getting familiar with windows programming, and was wondering the best language to spend time learning?

I guess it would have to be pretty high level since I'm sure something like c++ would confuse the fuck outta me

VB .Net sounds like the front runner at the moment

[com]

well i dont do windows but from what I gather c#, c++, and of course .net

[everestcash]

windows programming? try batch files, heh

[ServerGenius]

assembly

[jjjay]

assembly

I don't think so. any other suggestions?

[jjjay]

windows programming? try batch files, heh

I know all about those. looking for something with a better UI though?

[tgpmakers]

Get learning some Perl by using ActivePerl for Windows then you can use that on servers as well. Learn MySQL then learn Linux Fuck Windows it's shit. Then learn C then C++ do it for 10 years then you'll know how to program. GOOD LUCK!!!

[jjjay]

Get learning some Perl by using ActivePerl for Windows then you can use that on servers as well. Learn MySQL then learn Linux Fuck Windows it's shit. Then learn C then C++ do it for 10 years then you'll know how to program. GOOD LUCK!!!

thanks, but I was looking for a quicker solution if there is one. seems like i'd be going with vb .net then...

[u-Bob]

perl, php
c++

[Downtime]

javascript my man

[gornyhuy]

MS is supporting multiple programming language "overlays" to .net - so if you learn VB it will be useful to continue progressing. ITs also pretty easy to learn.

[Mr. Mojo Risin]

For Windows Programming, VB is best to start with for learning, then move on to C++. Perl and PHP is nice to know for web CGI scripts, not windows programs.

[sickbeatz]

learn win32 api.. after you got that down, learn mfc.

[Mr. Mojo Risin]

learn win32 api.. after you got that down, learn mfc.

You need to know C++ first.

[sickbeatz]

You need to know C++ first.

C++ is easy though. As long as you have a brain that works, you'll be fine.

[Mr. Mojo Risin]

C++ is easy though. As long as you have a brain that works, you'll be fine.

yes, but not to a total programming newb. Some people that can do well in Calculus can not understand programming. I know a few people like that.

[Coyote]

jjjay, you mentioned "...a better UI" and "...getting into windows programming" as your prerequisites. The language(s) you learn should fit the applications you have in mind to build. Some very basic example scenarios are:

If you are wanting to control various hardware devices, then the C's, assembly, and Java are common and appropriate.

If you are wanting to develop stand-alone event-based applications such as an audio/video processing or server log analyzer, then vb/c#.net will suffice. Also, it is not a problem to install the .net framework on the end-user's machine as this is part of the installation project -- installation is seamless to the user.

As I said, these are very basic scenarios. I only want to convey that you need the right tool for the right job. Once you decide on the projects it's a simple matter to learn the right tools.

Hope this helps.

[Napolean]

I use vb6 and dev-c++, I have .net but havent played around with it much

[drjones]

jjjay, you mentioned "...a better UI" and "...getting into windows programming" as your prerequisites. The language(s) you learn should fit the applications you have in mind to build. Some very basic example scenarios are:

If you are wanting to control various hardware devices, then the C's, assembly, and Java are common and appropriate.

If you are wanting to develop stand-alone event-based applications such as an audio/video processing or server log analyzer, then vb/c#.net will suffice. Also, it is not a problem to install the .net framework on the end-user's machine as this is part of the installation project -- installation is seamless to the user.

As I said, these are very basic scenarios. I only want to convey that you need the right tool for the right job. Once you decide on the projects it's a simple matter to learn the right tools.

Hope this helps.

I agree with this.. you should really figure out what kind of applications you want to build and go from there. If you want to do web programming, I would steer clear of microsoft centric programming tools and languages and recommend learning ruby (and ruby on rails.. the fastest way to develop web apps IMHO). If you want to develop windows apps, go with VB etc.

Once you figure out how to program, and become experienced with one language, picking up a new one is relatively easy, so first language choice isnt necassarily that important.

Of course, I used to work for a major open source software company, so my bias is always towards learning something that wont lock you into vendor specific solutions, like perl (my favorite), python, ruby (quickly becoming my favorite), php etc. For building windows applications, python and ruby actually work very well with the wx windows toolkit ( http://www.wxwidgets.org/ ).

[drjones]

And almost forgot... The best part about learning something like perl, python, etc is there is no cost to get started. It amazes me people still shell out thousands of dollars for their development enviroments (IDE's etc) when there are tools out there for free.

[jjjay]

jjjay, you mentioned "...a better UI" and "...getting into windows programming" as your prerequisites. The language(s) you learn should fit the applications you have in mind to build. Some very basic example scenarios are:

If you are wanting to control various hardware devices, then the C's, assembly, and Java are common and appropriate.

If you are wanting to develop stand-alone event-based applications such as an audio/video processing or server log analyzer, then vb/c#.net will suffice. Also, it is not a problem to install the .net framework on the end-user's machine as this is part of the installation project -- installation is seamless to the user.

As I said, these are very basic scenarios. I only want to convey that you need the right tool for the right job. Once you decide on the projects it's a simple matter to learn the right tools.

Hope this helps.

thanks very much for this. my focus for any software I create would either be personal tools running on my PC, but mostly I would be looking to create standalone software apps sold to consumer and business users.

it's a long term thing, but thought I should start getting my revision in early. also, at a later stage if I do hire someone it really helps to know what I'm talking about.

I once got quoted $10,000 on elance by an indian software firm for a fairly easy job and that really brought home the dangers of outsourcing to the wrong people, and not knowing your software ass from your software elbow

I've seen you can also get VB 2005 as part of Visual Studio 2005. And Visual Studio is going for as little as $80, with the express version even cheaper. that would seem like a good start.

on the other hand, there's a guy selling a delphi cd on ebay for $4, but I think it might be best to start away from that...

[woj]

Why do you want windows programming anyway? Like others have said, it really depends on what exactly you are trying to build...

[jjjay]

And almost forgot... The best part about learning something like perl, python, etc is there is no cost to get started. It amazes me people still shell out thousands of dollars for their development enviroments (IDE's etc) when there are tools out there for free.

thanks for this. for server side stuff I've already started with php. however, for standalone windows apps I was wondering the best way to go.

I understand that languages like visual c++ create fast running and compact code, but I'm worried that really would jumping into the deep end, so VB is the front runner for now

[jjjay]

Why do you want windows programming anyway? Like others have said, it really depends on what exactly you are trying to build...

looking at a good option for standalone apps for windows users that installs on the system rather than running online as a service

[GFX Wiz]

VB and Delphi are entry-level languages, relatively speaking. To keep up you need to be working with at least C# or C++

[Mr. Mojo Risin]

And almost forgot... The best part about learning something like perl, python, etc is there is no cost to get started. It amazes me people still shell out thousands of dollars for their development enviroments (IDE's etc) when there are tools out there for free.

you can learn Basic, C++ and Java without any money too. There are many free compilers/IDE's out there

[jjjay]

VB and Delphi are entry-level languages, relatively speaking. To keep up you need to be working with at least C# or C++

what do you mean here by "to keep up"?

[Mr. Mojo Risin]

Check out these interactive training courses.

http://authors.phptr.com/phptrintera.../training.html

[GFX Wiz]

what do you mean here by "to keep up"?

If you want your applications to be competitive in the marketplace regarding speed and file size, I would recommend C# or C++. If you're just wanting to write shit for yourself it won't matter as much.

[woj]

If you are serious about programming, it's probably best you take a basic c++ programming course at a local community college. It will teach you programming concepts applicable to any programming language.

[jjjay]

If you want your applications to be competitive in the marketplace regarding speed and file size, I would recommend C# or C++. If you're just wanting to write shit for yourself it won't matter as much.

I get it, thanks

[jjjay]

If you are serious about programming, it's probably best you take a basic c++ programming course at a local community college. It will teach you programming concepts applicable to any programming language.

thanks. i'll look into this

what worries me about c++ is the amount of time it takes to become competent in it. that's what has put me off looking at it in depth so far

[SomeCreep]

any other suggestions?

First learn programming logic and constructs and you'll be able to program in any language. That means, first learn how to write algorithms on paper, how loops work, and if constructs.

Then for Windows programming, I'd recommend learning Visual Basic.

[woj]

thanks. i'll look into this

what worries me about c++ is the amount of time it takes to become competent in it. that's what has put me off looking at it in depth so far

It's really not too bad and you get what you put into it... I suppose you can become a vb guru in half the time it takes to become a c++ guru, but vb guru is really worth half as much as a c++ guru...

[Mr. Mojo Risin]

If you are serious about programming, it's probably best you take a basic c++ programming course at a local community college. It will teach you programming concepts applicable to any programming language.

and I think you get Microsoft's IDE's free to use if you are a student.

[Luc]

i recommend english programming language. lol