CCbill and Foreign Webmasters

[RonC]

Lots of people have been posting different things about what we are saying about foreign accounts at CCbill.

CCbill has always had US and Foreign merchant accounts. This is nothing new.

Currently we are waiting for Visa to send us in writing if the new rules will apply regionally for banks and not by country. (ie bank in France good for EU. or only good for French webmasters) Once we have this in writting we will be sending out a statement to our customers. To do so prior to having this issue clarified in writing would just be irresponsible.

I can assure you after speaking with Visa they do have a very different view than some of our competitors regarding these new rules. As Visa kindly pointed out to me these rules were created by the International side of Visa, and the US was the last to adopt them.

We hope to have the cross boarder issues and others answered from Visa by the end of this week.

In regards to Regions CCbill will be able to process in if done regionally.

US
Asian Pacific (includes Austrialia)
EU

Working on Canada, but it does not look hopeful for any IPSP


CCbill will probably not be processing in
Central Europe, Africa,
or the Carriabean.

The reason is there is just not enough webmasters or Volume to justify the risk exposure.

I am flying to NY in the morning and will be meeting on Thursday regarding some of these direct issues. So I am going to bed now,

so let the flames begin

Ron C

[Fletch XXX]

*throws the match*

[quiet]

Originally posted by RonC

Working on Canada, but it does not look hopeful for any IPSP

*sigh*

[Brown Bear]

Thanks for the info RonC

[Sly_RJ]

Canada, the country that doesn't like porn!

[PornoBug]

iBill have told me in writing that they will NOT be able to process for international webmasters.

PSW say on their web site that international webmasters will be unaffected, will not need to pay the $750 & $350 fees providing they do not have prohibited content.

CCBill are saying that they are working hard on processing in other regions.

RonC: Will ccBill require the hefty application and annual operation fees to process for Australian web masters ?

[Brown Bear]

PSW Billing is looking good right now.

[Shoplifter]

Originally posted by quiet


*sigh*

Nevada here we come.

[PornoBug]

I think a point that has been missed is that this situation shows how little influence the 3rd party processors have with VISA.

If 3rd party processors like iBill, Paycom Epoch etc had much influence then there is no way that this thing would have become public until they had firm answers and a clear plan of action for all the cirumstances.

Without trying to place the blame at the feet of any single company, I would like to know how a company can justify making announcements of such gravity and then be saying over a week later that they don't know how things will affect significant segments of their customer base ?

None of this makes sense unless you assume that the 3rd party billing companies have either completely dropped the ball, or just have no influence with card associations.

To all 3rd party billing companies: "The adult webmaster community is looking for answers , we're not getting them, we are your customers , what are you doing ?"

[Brown Bear]

There is so much conflicting information from all the different processors on the subject. Its hard to tell who you should listen to.

It will be interesting to see how this plays out over the next few months.

[Gary]

this is crazy

[Brown Bear]

Originally posted by Sexfind
To all 3rd party billing companies: "The adult webmaster community is looking for answers , we're not getting them, we are your customers , what are you doing ?"

I second that opinion!

More info please!

[PornBroker]

Thanks Ron for keeping us up to date
Please post as soon as you know more, and get the Sales dept to follow up with an email to our accounts.

Cheers,

[jimmyf]

He went to bed...

[SykkBoy]

Originally posted by RonC

CCbill will probably not be processing in
Central Europe, Africa,
or the Carriabean.

crap! so much for my move to Zimbabwe

[2dXtreme]

This is a diferent story then Interpay(Who handle Visa over here) told me when I called them yesterday.

Not trying to stir up shit but from what I heard from them Glo-bill's story checks out.

[DemonWolfe]

I believe that GloBill looked ahead and saw what was coming down the pipe months ago and began positioning itself to avoid these complications.

They have hired the services of the law firm of Edward J. Morris.

They have an explantion on their main page now also.

[shunga]

Originally posted by RonC
Currently we are waiting for Visa to send us in writing if the new rules will apply regionally for banks and not by country. (ie bank in France good for EU. or only good for French webmasters) Once we have this in writting we will be sending out a statement to our customers. To do so prior to having this issue clarified in writing would just be irresponsible.

Will we hear something before the end of the week? The wheels need to start turning for the LLC's soon, so it's imperative we know as soon as possible so we can make the best decision.

It's good to see someone with the facts posting here, so just ignore any flames.

[markusborger]

hahaha.....

RON SHUT-UP YOUR BIG MOUTH.....

YOU ONLY THROW SHIT OUT OF IT....


All we know is that you at CCBILL are big scammers and you are only trying to screw us again....



GO SUCK DIKIES

[ControlThy]

Originally posted by markusborger
hahaha.....

RON SHUT-UP YOUR BIG MOUTH.....

Animal fucker, why don't you go play with your dog's cock?

[Jakk]

Working on Canada, but it does not look hopeful for any IPSP

Ok so what does this mean exactly?

[ControlThy]

Originally posted by Jakk


Ok so what does this mean exactly?

It means (at least that is what I make of it) that you have to open a company in a region where your processor has a merchant account.

[Sleepy]

Originally posted by markusborger
hahaha.....
RON SHUT-UP YOUR BIG MOUTH.....
YOU ONLY THROW SHIT OUT OF IT....

All we know is that you at CCBILL are big scammers and you are only trying to screw us again....

GO SUCK DIKIES

For christ sakes. Everyone knows about your billing company so stop with the fucking spam. Some of us need to hear what RonC has to say.

AND get rid of that huge fucking signature !

Will someone straighten this asshole out or get rid of him, please ? His last ten posts are the same exact shit.

[erotictrance]

Originally posted by Sleepy



For christ sakes. Everyone knows about your billing company so stop with the fucking spam. Some of us need to hear what RonC has to say.

AND get rid of that huge fucking signature !

Will someone straighten this asshole out or get rid of him, please ? His last ten posts are the same exact shit.

I agree. Somebody needs to get rid of this asshole ...

It's pretty pathetic when one of the major processors tries to answer questions and gets flamed to death by competing spammers who have never posted here before ...

[erotictrance]

Originally posted by Sexfind
I think a point that has been missed is that this situation shows how little influence the 3rd party processors have with VISA.

If 3rd party processors like iBill, Paycom Epoch etc had much influence then there is no way that this thing would have become public until they had firm answers and a clear plan of action for all the cirumstances.

Without trying to place the blame at the feet of any single company, I would like to know how a company can justify making announcements of such gravity and then be saying over a week later that they don't know how things will affect significant segments of their customer base ?

None of this makes sense unless you assume that the 3rd party billing companies have either completely dropped the ball, or just have no influence with card associations.

To all 3rd party billing companies: "The adult webmaster community is looking for answers , we're not getting them, we are your customers , what are you doing ?"

In all fairness, Kimmy Kim talked about this months ago, back when she was working for CCBill ...

The problem is, NOBODY has any influence with VISA. VISA does what it wants, when it wants .... because it can. And no amount of bitching and screaming is going to change that ...

VISA has always changed the rules with little notice ... Kimmy Kim actually predicted this on this board months ago, and she said it would happen very suddenly without any notice because that's how VISA operates ...

That's not the fault of the processors. The fact is ... it's beyond their control.

[corvette]

good post ero

[Fitzit]

OK, Day two of being on this board and it looks like there is a lot of work to be done.

a) Your 3rd party billing companies have no pull with Visa. In reality they are not even allowed to be in business by Visa rules, and will only become legit when the new rules become effective in November. That?s from Visa

b) On Sept 19th, in Seattle. Martin Elliott, Dir. High Risk Management Visa USA and Linda Gage, Sr VP Visa USA. Gave a briefing at the ETA EXPO. I saw CCbill, Ibill, Jettis and Electracash in that room. We all knew about what was being presented 2 months before this conference. Your billing companies don't know what to do and were hoping this would go away.

c) These rules apply globally, all six Visa regions had say so on these rule changes, and all adopted them.

d) If you are TMF, not a legal company, or don't want to put up $750. You are out of the Visa market. Start pushing MasterCard, checks and Paypal (while you can, Visa does not like Paypal)

I would gladly post the slides Visa used in this expo; Visa by policy does not distribute its presentation slides. Sorry.

[Brown Bear]

Originally posted by Fitzit
OK, Day two of being on this board and it looks like there is a lot of work to be done.

a) Your 3rd party billing companies have no pull with Visa. In reality they are not even allowed to be in business by Visa rules, and will only become legit when the new rules become effective in November. That?s from Visa

b) On Sept 19th, in Seattle. Martin Elliott, Dir. High Risk Management Visa USA and Linda Gage, Sr VP Visa USA. Gave a briefing at the ETA EXPO. I saw CCbill, Ibill, Jettis and Electracash in that room. We all knew about what was being presented 2 months before this conference. Your billing companies don't know what to do and were hoping this would go away.

c) These rules apply globally, all six Visa regions had say so on these rule changes, and all adopted them.

d) If you are TMF, not a legal company, or don't want to put up $750. You are out of the Visa market. Start pushing MasterCard, checks and Paypal (while you can, Visa does not like Paypal)

I would gladly post the slides Visa used in this expo; Visa by policy does not distribute its presentation slides. Sorry.

Fitzit has some interesting info.

[Mike H]

Originally posted by Jakk


Ok so what does this mean exactly?

Getting off the phone with 'mark' accounting of ccbill he is unable to tell just how many of my customer's are visa one's. (so how severely I am going to be affected is unknown)

Being a canadian resident and processing with ccbill I am not getting any answers.

On behalf of all canadian adult webmasters I request you inform us a.s.a.p because it looks like your fuckin the dog when your customers are asking what procedures need to be taken. Aot of canadians need u.s. based business addreses. And what if we don't ? We take the hit!? I asked ccbill if a p.o. box would be sufficient and they said 1)yes 2)no 3)not sure. call back in a few days.

Why not increase our processing rate by 1-5% until the $750 is paid. "you're fighting for us"? Feels like your fuckin us!

[andi_germany]

There is a time consuming way to find out. Check each rebill in detail and you will see the card used both in ibill and ccbill.

[Indeed]

Originally posted by erotictrance


In all fairness, Kimmy Kim talked about this months ago, back when she was working for CCBill ...

The problem is, NOBODY has any influence with VISA. VISA does what it wants, when it wants .... because it can. And no amount of bitching and screaming is going to change that ...

VISA has always changed the rules with little notice ... Kimmy Kim actually predicted this on this board months ago, and she said it would happen very suddenly without any notice because that's how VISA operates ...

That's not the fault of the processors. The fact is ... it's beyond their control.

What are you talking about. Glo-bill, Ac Pay, PSw Billing and many other processors said that they were informed like 6 months ago. CCbill is lying when they claim they were just informed. Please read the other threads related to this subject before posting your bullshit.

[corvette]

Mike,

This is Mark from CCBill. We are getting a report up that will show you the different percentage of each card that your rebills are. I have seen the 60% figure posted around and it is generally correct. You should know your exact figure as soon as the report is posted.

indeed,

There were indistinct rumors and speculation 6 months ago, that is true. As of now, we know the general policies, but still have some very important questions that we are awaiting the answers on. Like Ron mentioned, once we find out more specifics about some of the policies, we will be sure to let everyone know. I am very anxious to know the answers as well.

[erotictrance]

Originally posted by Indeed


What are you talking about. Glo-bill, Ac Pay, PSw Billing and many other processors said that they were informed like 6 months ago. CCbill is lying when they claim they were just informed. Please read the other threads related to this subject before posting your bullshit.

I've read all of the threads, and I didn't see Globill etc. making any announcements six months ago ... If they knew, and are so on top of things, why didn't they announce it then?

And if the Big 3 are so out of it, why were they the first to announce these changes?

Because VISA has been hinting about this for years, but probably didn't make it mandatory until recently ...

[Mike H]

Originally posted by andi_germany
There is a time consuming way to find out. Check each rebill in detail and you will see the card used both in ibill and ccbill.

very time cosuming

[Indeed]

Originally posted by erotictrance


I've read all of the threads, and I didn't see Globill etc. making any announcements six months ago ... If they knew, and are so on top of things, why didn't they announce it then?

And if the Big 3 are so out of it, why were they the first to announce these changes?

Because VISA has been hinting about this for years, but probably didn't make it mandatory until recently ...

Glo-bill did not make any announcement because these rules aren't affecting their client. Why would they announce changes if there are NO changes for them. They said they were informed a long time ago and worked on it so they would not have to deal with these rules. Regarding the presence required in USA, AcPay and Pswbilling also said that they were informed but that it does not affect their client as they are established in the other VISA regions. So if all these processors were informed a long time ago, I assume the 3 big companies were also? This is why I say it is false to claim these rules are new. They aren't. I was told that the documents which were sent by VISA contains like 1000 pages. So yes it might be hard to understand all of it, but it does not mean they were not informed. Also the big 3 aren't the first that made an announcement here. Multibill is the person who started the madness by posting some rumours which turned out to be true. I also heard about these things several months ago from some posters here but it was never confirmed so we did not know if it was true or not. Now we know but we should have known a long time ago. You understand now that there is something fishy about all this?

[PornBroker]

Originally posted by corvett
Mike,

This is Mark from CCBill. We are getting a report up that will show you the different percentage of each card that your rebills are. I have seen the 60% figure posted around and it is generally correct. You should know your exact figure as soon as the report is posted.

For what it's worth my credit card sales splits
over the last few months are:

Visa - 62.60%
Mastercard - 31.65%
Other - 5.75%

[erotictrance]

Originally posted by Indeed


Glo-bill did not make any announcement because these rules aren't affecting their client. Why would they announce changes if there are NO changes for them. They said they were informed a long time ago and worked on it so they would not have to deal with these rules. Regarding the presence required in USA, AcPay and Pswbilling also said that they were informed but that it does not affect their client as they are established in the other VISA regions. So if all these processors were informed a long time ago, I assume the 3 big companies were also? This is why I say it is false to claim these rules are new. They aren't. I was told that the documents which were sent by VISA contains like 1000 pages. So yes it might be hard to understand all of it, but it does not mean they were not informed. Also the big 3 aren't the first that made an announcement here. Multibill is the person who started the madness by posting some rumours which turned out to be true. I also heard about these things several months ago from some posters here but it was never confirmed so we did not know if it was true or not. Now we know but we should have known a long time ago. You understand now that there is something fishy about all this?

Sure, there might be something fishy with the Big 3 ...

But I would argue there might be something just as fishy with the smaller fishes ... like Globill, etc. using this as an opportunity to grab market share from the Big 3 ... by making false promises they can't keep on the VISA situation ...

Afterall, Globill continually refuses to explain how they are going to pull this off ... not exactly a credible response ...

Whatever ... I guess only time will tell.

[Indeed]

Originally posted by erotictrance


Sure, there might be something fishy with the Big 3 ...

But I would argue there might be something just as fishy with the smaller fishes ... like Globill, etc. using this as an opportunity to grab market share from the Big 3 ... by making false promises they can't keep on the VISA situation ...

Afterall, Globill continually refuses to explain how they are going to pull this off ... not exactly a credible response ...

Whatever ... I guess only time will tell.

Agreed. However you are located in California so the "foreign" issue does not really matter to you. But for those, like me, who live in Canada, we don't have many options. CCbill, Epoch, Ibill, WSB, Jettis etc... all have a different way of understanding the rule. Some people claim that we got a have a corp, a civic address, a bank account in US as well as an employee that at least own 1% of the company. If this is true, what can we do anyway beside trusting glo-bill, AC Pay, PSWbilling and the such?

[abbyw]

For the record, I polled my customers, and about 70% used a Visa card to join, and about 30% either joined with a different card, or could have joined with a different card.

Oh, and two people emailed me to say they have more than one card, but they were all Visa's.

--
abby
www.abbywinters.com

[Fitzit]

Can I ask why it is that any of you believe that Visa would do this in only one of their regions?

Do you think that Visa would put these rules into effect for the USA only, and allow you all to go to another region and continue doing business as you always have.

How quickly would every webmaster program be offering Visa marked Latvian bank cards to their customers so they could purchase with Visa online?

Why do you think the biggest programs are all working on value added cards of their own? So they don't have to go around Visa thats why.

If any of the processors think they have a loop hole around Visa, do you think it will stay open very long? Think people, Visa doesn't move a trillion dollars a year because they are stupid.

[Kimmykim]

well since someone brought my name up...

Visa did indeed start talking about most of this back in March of this year. However they did NOT implement it in the April rules change, and the matter was pretty much dropped at the time.

All three of the processors mentioned here -- IBIll, CCBill and Epoch, all talked to Martin and others at Visa back then to see if they would bend on those rules, and now it seems it was a temporary bending at best.

I have talked at length with both RonC and Chris Mallick at Paycom about this mess, and neither of them are very happy with the situation. But Visa is Visa, and they will do as they please.

One more time I'll say it -- thank your friends in the business that do nothing but attempt to bilk the surfer for every dime they can, rip off every bank they come in contact with, and generally do shit that is going to cause Visa at some point to say enough is enough, no more adult transactions, if they can't get these people out of the business.

[ColKurtz]

The biggest problem with these rules as others have said is nobody really knows what is up.

About the only ones saying the same thing are the big 3 who got together and probably discussed for weeks how to announce these rules and how by joining together it would come off much better to webmasters.

I think that strategy wasn't good. I dont want some epoch dickhole making announcments for the company that processes for me.


Then outside of the big 3 there is pretty much a different story from each. Out of every processor, PSW seems to be giving the most straight scoop. Globill and ACpay are a bit harder to believe but they are large credible comapanies, so its hard to doubt what they say.


There is no official word from visa at all. People are basically at the mercy of how their processor decides how to interpret these rules.

[Fitzit]

If you want the real story you need to be reading. It was published in the weekly Visa Business Review publication.

You need to be talking to aquiring banks, or 3rd parties to find a copy though.