what makes pay site convert?

[dgdesigns]

That's the million dollar question isn't it?

I'd like to hear the answer to this question from both designers and webmasters.

[3Xguru]

I don't know.

[Wizzo]

Getting the surfer to think that the site has what they want and the only way to get it is to pay!

Seduction is the the name of the conversion game...;)

[Sleepy]

There are a couple of basics that hold true and are really "advertising 101" to anyone who has advertising training.

1. Repetition. Some companies you see on T.V. repeat their name over and over in a 30 second commercial to gain name recognition. This is an old trick and doesnt exactly apply to adult sites but what you do want to repeat is what you are selling. If your niche is tranny video you would want to repeat on every page that you offer acces to "Over 45 gig of tranny video". I usually pick three basic concepts I want the surfer to understand and make sure they are repeated through the tour. What you dont want is to say "Over 45 gig of tranny video" on one page and "tousands of tranny videos" on another. If the numbers dont add up and the message isnt clear the surfer is gone.

2. Subliminal advertising. Never underestimate the power of subliminal advertising. A slow animation that says "join now" is powerful just like "click here to enter". If you ever watch a motion picture movie and see the actor drink a can of "pepsi" ( for example ) you can bet that its no accident. Pepsi paid to have that actor drink that can and face the lable towards the camera. You'd be amazed at what a person's subconscious picks up on and that slow animation that says "join now" speaks to the their subconscious as well as their impulse buying. If you put a huge "join now" link on every page it has the opposite affect because the surfer is now consciously aware of the message.

If you want to do your customers a big favor, buy a book on marketing strategy. Still.. It's really not the designer's responsibility to make the tour convert. The webmaster should layout the text and design first then have the designer make it "look pretty". Font size, color, and wording all play into the conversions. Theres so much more but really it's not your fault if it doesnt convert. If you have marketing experience it makes your services much more valuable though.

[dgdesigns]

Sleepy,

Thanks for the tips...they are appreciated. I especially am gonna folow through on getting a book on marketing.

I agree that it's not the designer's job to make the site convert, but I get the full range of clients. I get people that have everything down as they want it, and i get people that don't have a clue. I think it is safe to say that the folks that put the most thought and work in before approaching designers are going to be the most successful with their sites.

I, however, think that as a designer that it is to my advantage to learn what I can to make a design convert. There has to be a reason that Mike Ws the king, and the rest of us are still learning.

DG

[Oldy]

You may designed a good site with all good contents, but advertising part is most essential. That builds up confidence in the customers mind.

[dgdesigns]

Which is what makes Lensman's posting for $1,000 for the first 12 sales a stroke of genius. He pays a little more/site for the first few sales, but in exchange he gets millions of links headed his way very quickly. He gets a lot in return for what he is paying.

Maybe another way to rephrase my question is..."what do you look for when you look at a designer's portfolio?"

[Juge]

Those are some good tips, Sleepy.

[dgdesigns]

I am assuming that your biggest concern when deciding to hire a designer is, "will this person create a site that can convert?" So when you look at a designer's portfolio, "what is it that clicks in your mind that says this designer will or will not convert?" Or is it all subjective? I don't think it is that simple.

[JackFoley]

Originally posted by Sleepy
If you put a huge "join now" link on every page it has the opposite affect because the surfer is now consciously aware of the message.

Subliminal messages are NOT as powerful as the media (or whoever) would have you believe. Your sub-conscious mind will respond to the message exactly the same as your conscious mind would, so if you don't like Pepsi or Tranny videos, you're not any more likely to buy the product.

[EscortBiz]

"If you don't join this site with 360 seconds and email 7 friends about this site something really bad is about to happen, click here to join now"

It works wonders

[Sleepy]

Originally posted by JackFoley
Subliminal messages are NOT as powerful as the media (or whoever) would have you believe. Your sub-conscious mind will respond to the message exactly the same as your conscious mind would, so if you don't like Pepsi or Tranny videos, you're not any more likely to buy the product.

If a person has a predisposition to not purchase a product they already have a distaste for, nothing will make them buy it. I will agree with that - even though it's not really relative to the point I was making. Im assuming the surfer is at a tranny site because he or she is interested in that content. Keep in mind that certain types of subliminal advertising are illegal for a very good reason. You cant make a person buy, but they can be heavily persuaded.

BTW, here are some things you can do now to increase signups.

#1. Cascading signup pages and processors. Waypay offers this for a very reasonable price and depending on your current processor it will increase your sales 10-20%. Basicly it runs your delined signups through multiple processors so you can regain those sales. Mansionproductions offers the same software for about $12000.00 but Waypay can set you up for a few hundred. Im sure others offer this too but I just dont know of any. In all fairness mansionproductions offers a paysite and reseller package and its much more inclusive.

#2. If you have 4 tour pages put a small gif on each one.
tour1.html = tour1.gif
tour2.html = tour2.gif
tour3.html = tour3.gif
tour4.html = tour4.gif

Stats can be hard to use and most offered by hosting companies are almost useless. So, with this we can go to our stats and see which gif is requested the most and know which tour pages are hit the most. You should be able to figure out something like this.

tour1.gif= 30,000 requests
tour2.gif= 20,000 requests
tour3.gif= 5,000 requests
tour4.gif= 1,000 requests

When you look at how this adds up you see there's a 75% loss of traffic from tour2 to tour3 so delete tour2 and run the numbers again. You can also assume that tour1 is kicking ass and people are clicking through so that page design and layout are good. You can even model additional tour pages after it.

I know Im gonna be accused of over simplifying and thats true..
These are just some basics and keep in mind that your competitors use all these tools to their advantage. If you use every trick in the book it still only makes you competitive.

[cafeaulait]

Surely you've missed out novelty factor in your equation. Tour 1 kicks ass because its the first time someone has seen your site, tour is becoming a bit boring just becaus they already know what the site is about, tour three losing interest rapidly, tour 4....seeya!

G

[Kimmykim]

Ah but it is the designers job to convert the surfer into a join.

It's also the site owners job to have enough content that can be marketed in an appealing way to the surfer.

It's also the advertisers job to pre-qualify the surfer so he knows that he is going to be asked for some money to get what he is looking for eventually.

This is not any different than marketing anything else.

Take a car for instance.

There's an ad in the paper, done up by a graphic artist, based on what the dealer has in stock and is offering. The paper gets paid to run those ads, but if they don't get anyone buying the paper or reading it, then they lose that revenue. If people see the ads and dont go to the dealership a new ad company is hired to make a more attractive ad. The dealer better have good selection and so on in order to convert the buyer into an owner or he won't have the money to pay the ad agency or the newspaper.

It's a circle of sorts, and everyone has to do their part.

[Sleepy]

Ahahaha.. well, I knew someone would say that
It could also be that my members entrance link is on tour1

But in reality my tours are at http://tour.domain.com and my reseller traffic goes there so I have cleaner statistics to work with. Also, what your really just looking for is a drastic dropoff from one tour to another. There will never be a 100% coversion through each page. You will also never get perfect stats because of reloads and so forth. Its still a good measuring tool.

Its funny cause this brings us to the signup page conversions. If you really really want to ruin your day look at how many hits your signup page gets then imagine if all those hits were converting. I promise it will inspire you to work harder on your signup page.. Every designer I have used has this nasty habit of putting much less effort into the signup pages than the tours. AP has excellent signup pages.

[dgdesigns]

True enough KimmyKim in that the total package sells better if all parts are performing their function. But, I can create the best design in the world, and it won't sell shitty overused content. In that case it's not the designer's fault. The content sucks. Also if an advertiser sends somebody seeking big tits to a site of small titty teens, that advertiser's conversions are gonna be shitty. Again it's not the designers fault that conversions suck.

But assuming that all things are as they should be. The content is fresh and unique. The advertisers are sending targeted traffic. But the site doesn't convert. Then it is safe to say that the design is a problem.

Now an intelligent webmaster is going to do his/her best to put all of these things in place. They are going to have appealing and fresh content. They are going to get targeted advertising--as much as they can. They are going to get a designer that in their opinion will create an effective advertisement for their site.

So what is a webmaster looking for when they look at a design portfolio?

[Sleepy]

Originally posted by Kimmykim


Ah but it is the designers job to convert the surfer into a join.

It's also the site owners job to have enough content that can be marketed in an appealing way to the surfer.

It's a circle of sorts, and everyone has to do their part.

Well, we are just talking tour conversions..not business success as a whole. Its my opinion the designers job is to make the site look appealing but its the webmaster who needs to understand who he/she is marketing it too then lay that out for the designer. Its not fair to expect the designer to carry the burden of making a site convert.

[dgdesigns]

Sleepy,

That is exactly the useful tidbit that I am looking for. If you put equal effort into the signup page your conversions would be higher, or so it would seem.

So a join page with a logo header should be less effective than a join page with a total layout including text and images.

DG

[EvilAL]

Hey Sleepy
Would you please icq me? 163590512

Thanks
EA

[Dawgy]

ah. nice to see all the boys & girls playing nicely together.

this is definitely one of the better threads in recent months.

[pimpdog3]

Originally posted by Dawgy
ah. nice to see all the boys & girls playing nicely together.

this is definitely one of the better threads in recent months.

sorry i been asleep all day, ive had the shits, let me wake up 1st.. see what i can come up with.

[Rip]

KK is kind of hitting in the direction, that I like to think

#1 make the surfer so horny that he's holding onto his credit card and cock at the same time

#2 make them want to click through the banner to your paysite

#3 make them want to click through to the join page

#4 have enough inside that they convert from trial to full membership

#5 have a decent enough site, that they wanna recurr

[StudioX]

Our content will make your site convert like crazy

[Pete]

Seduction is the the name of the conversion game...;)

You hit the nail on the head.

[chodadog]

Originally posted by Dawgy
ah. nice to see all the boys & girls playing nicely together.

this is definitely one of the better threads in recent months.

Shhhh, you'll jinx it.

[Pete]

Question: What makes a paysite convert?
Answer: Design and quality of content.

Doesnt matter where your traffic comes from; search engines, banners, million dollar ads or whatever, the end result is a properly laid out site that looks and feels good with high quality images. Without design, you have nothing.

[flashfreak]

Originally posted by Pete
Question: What makes a paysite convert?
Answer: Design and quality of content.

Doesnt matter where your traffic comes from; search engines, banners, million dollar ads or whatever, the end result is a properly laid out site that looks and feels good with high quality images. Without design, you have nothing.

I subscribe to this.
Also keep in mind that your surfers have different tastes, some of them like videos, some of them pictures, stories, games...
Install a stats software in your members area and see what section is visited often...
Also make a poll, asking them what content do they want to see.

[Fletch XXX]

content.

period.

[Cindyff]

We find that a ton exclusive content, straight talk and simple navigation has been quite successful. We keep all animation / flash off the sites and aim for a fast download of each tour page.

[archer]

Originally posted by Fletch XXX
content.

period.

i agree with you to an extent fletch: but only when the surfer reaches the site.

First he has to get there and that's where advertising comes in.

You can build a better mousetrap but if no one knows u have then u'll be as much history as betamax is.

[Fletch XXX]

Originally posted by archer



i agree with you to an extent fletch: but only when the surfer reaches the site.

First he has to get there and that's where advertising comes in.

You can build a better mousetrap but if no one knows u have then u'll be as much history as betamax is.

Of course, I agree too.

How you market it is a whole new level, but overall.

Content is what sells a site, period.

[Mutt]

Originally posted by StudioX
Our content will make your site convert like crazy

you're a fucking tool. the rules here on GFY are pretty liberal about spamming/promoting, why do you feel it necessary to spam your crap in a thread that doesn't have ANYTHING to do with anybody interested in content?

[Pete]

content.

period.

WRONG!

A poorly designed and laid out site with high quality content will not make you money. I know because I have some. I also have professionally made sites, made from the best grafics dudes in the buis. The nicely designed sites with HQ content work best...thats it.

You can still use a non traditional paysite design but if its not laid out properly and has a bad collection of images to seduce the surfer it just wont work.

[Fletch XXX]

Originally posted by Pete

WRONG!

A poorly designed and laid out site with high quality content will not make you money. I know because I have some. I also have professionally made sites, made from the best grafics dudes in the buis. The nicely designed sites with HQ content work best...thats it.

You can still use a non traditional paysite design but if its not laid out properly and has a bad collection of images to seduce the surfer it just wont work.

Only an idiot would think have a kick ass load of content and a shitty designed site.

I didnt mean content is the ONLY thing.

But the question was asked:

"What makes a paysite convert?"

Bottom line is the content. Of course you could have the best content ever and the site design could be as repulsive as possible, of course you wont get sales. This is a given.

But if design alone was the factor, ARS would convert better than it does.

Still bottom line.

"Traffic may rule, but content is king." - ?

[EscortBiz]

These guys know everything about converting

[Pete]

Only an idiot would think have a kick ass load of content and a shitty designed site.

I didnt mean content is the ONLY thing.

But the question was asked:

"What makes a paysite convert?"

Bottom line is the content. Of course you could have the best content ever and the site design could be as repulsive as possible, of course you wont get sales. This is a given.

But if design alone was the factor, ARS would convert better than it does.

Still bottom line.

Wrong Again. The bottom line is not content. The bottom line is design. If the site looks like shit, it wont work period.

Sure content makes a huge difference, but thats not what you said. You said "Content Period" Thats what I responded to. Next time say what you meant. Design is not a "given".

[Paul Markham]

Originally posted by Pete
Question: What makes a paysite convert?
Answer: Design and quality of content.

Doesnt matter where your traffic comes from; search engines, banners, million dollar ads or whatever, the end result is a properly laid out site that looks and feels good with high quality images. Without design, you have nothing.

Agreed, but as someone who was trained as a designer (fashion) we were taught that it was to either catch someones eye and get them talking or sell. A lot of designers can get your attention, but do they get you interested then arouse your desire and finally move you to action?

Attention
Interest
Desire
Action

The other thing I would put in, because this is adult and therefore personal, is empathy. Does the designer and the owner, really understand the niche they are going for. You can have the best design, kick ass content. But if you do not understand the niche conversions will suffer.

[Pete]

The other thing I would put in, because this is adult and therefore personal, is empathy. Does the designer and the owner, really understand the niche they are going for. You can have the best design, kick ass content. But if you do not understand the niche conversions will suffer.

Ya, your right about that.

[Voodoo]

The tried and true method of sales.
P=Pace
L=Lead
A=Action
F=Feature
B=Benefit

"Pacing/Pace" statements are ones that are generally accepted to be "true".
Example: The internet has an infinite number of adult sites.

"Leading/Lead" statements are ones that are focused on getting the surfer to believe something about your site.
Example: We have over 50,000 images.

"Action" statments are what provoke the surfer to do something.
Example: Click here and join now!
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Features & Benefits:
- A feature is a tangible element to a product/service.
Example: Easy Navigation, Customer Support, 1000 Downloadable Movies

- A benefit is a non-tanbible element to a product/service that emphasizes the product/services value to the customer.
Example: Instant Access, Daily Updates, Access 1000s of sites

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
On each page you should list each of the elements in a particular order, to help promote the user's "Yes" mode, and get them into an agreeable state.

Avoid using "Negative" words at all.
Examples: No, Not, Don't, Isn't, Won't etc...

The pattern below is the standard layout for this method:
CATCH - > Splash (Grab attention)
PPPLA - > Tour 1 FFFB
PPLLA - > Tour 2 FFBB
PLLLA - > Tour 3 FBBB
LLLLA - > Join SUMMARIZE F&B - > Action Statement

Hopefully this helps.

[Lexxx]

Originally posted by Sleepy

Its funny cause this brings us to the signup page conversions. If you really really want to ruin your day look at how many hits your signup page gets then imagine if all those hits were converting. I promise it will inspire you to work harder on your signup page.. Every designer I have used has this nasty habit of putting much less effort into the signup pages than the tours.

100% Agreed!

I ruined my days like that many times...

[Lexxx]

Originally posted by Sleepy


Its not fair to expect the designer to carry the burden of making a site convert.

depends how much you pay'em and how experienced they are in producing converting tours... many companies have no clue as to what a tour should look like... they just hire designers who crank out those sites on a half-daily basis...

[Fletch XXX]

Originally posted by Pete

Wrong Again. The bottom line is not content. The bottom line is design. If the site looks like shit, it wont work period.

Sure content makes a huge difference, but thats not what you said. You said "Content Period" Thats what I responded to. Next time say what you meant. Design is not a "given".

Do you disagree with me, just to disagree? I have already stated the necessity of good design, must I restate it? You are arguing something I already said was of course part of the selling of a paysite.

But... So okay if content is not the main selling factor of a site:

How would you design the site without content?

Without content you have no design. And no matter what, a killer design will NOT sell shitty content.

So it begins with the content, and ends on the join page.

Content sells the site.

[UnseenWorld]

I'm surprised this is a mystery. It's similar to what makes you come back to a restaurant:

1) Is the food good?
I go back to restaurants where I like the food. I buy trials to others' adult sites all the time, just to see what they are doing, and so far, I've found only one to which I have allowed rebilling to occur (http://www.ultrawired.com). But before you sign up for a partnership program with them...they don't have one.

2) Is the product's price position appropriate?
If a product is a good value for the dollar, people will keep coming back for more. This applies to adult sites as well as restaurants.

3) Is the service good?
Can you talk to the maitre'd or the chef? If you have a complaint, do they respond promptly and satisfactorily? Every complaint is an opportunity. I used to work in direct marketing, and one of the little-known facts of direct marketing is that the most loyal customers are the ones who complained...and their complaint was resolved swiftly and satisfactorily. The more amazing and pleasing your response, the greater the loyalty.

4) This applies in particular to membership sites (not restaurants): The site must be updated regularly. I used to be lazy and updated my own site (http://www.girlsdotcom.com) once a week. When another webmaster clued me in that it's better to divide the material up into chunks and put it up ever 2 or 3 days, my retention went up quite a bit. I have gotten a trial on some sites, liked the material, but after a few days went by and nothing new appeared, I decided it must be running on auto-pilot and cancelled out of my trial.

[quiet]

Originally posted by charly
Attention
Interest
Desire
Action

this thread is beginning to sound alot like glengarry glenross

[UnseenWorld]

Originally posted by Pete
Question: What makes a paysite convert?
Answer: Design and quality of content.

Doesnt matter where your traffic comes from; search engines, banners, million dollar ads or whatever, the end result is a properly laid out site that looks and feels good with high quality images. Without design, you have nothing.

Ultimately the only design aspect that counts is navigability. And the purpose of the navigability is to make the content findable and accessible.

People don't stick with sites because they like the site graphics. They are there to find jack off material, and if the material is hard to find or hard to jack off to, all the fine looking site graphics on earth won't get them to stay.

[dgdesigns]

I think it all starts and ends with the webmaster/owner. After all, it is their site and hey exercise control over all aspects.

They buy the content.

They choose how to promote the site.

They choose the designer.

It seems that the smart webmaster is the one to put all of the ingredients together: quality content; promoting in the right places; selecting a designer that knows the niche.

Part of the reason I asked this question in the first place is that it seems that the role of designer changes from client to client. I have clients that take control of every detail. I also have clients that seem to want my advice on everything from third party processors to which AVS to use to AVS vs. pay site. I also have clients that seem to have no clue and think they can just hand me content and be done with it because just placing a pay site on the web is gonna make them rich.

I think in general what works best is a well thought out business plan that starts with somebody that understands the niche they are promoting.

It is not just a matter of putting out a site and getting rich. There is way too much competition out there. You have to be willing to learn your trade just as in any other profession. I think the most successful people have progressed through the ranks from building TGP galleries all the way through the AVSs and into the pay site world. They have learned the industry which is by no means as simple as it appears.

I want to thank everyone for their input. This ahs been an educational and fun experience for me.

DG

[Rochard]

Originally posted by Rip
KK is kind of hitting in the direction, that I like to think

#1 make the surfer so horny that he's holding onto his credit card and cock at the same time

#2 make them want to click through the banner to your paysite

#3 make them want to click through to the join page

#4 have enough inside that they convert from trial to full membership

#5 have a decent enough site, that they wanna recurr

What he said. That's it right there.

[Jon]

sleepy-

icq me or email me man!

[Pete]

Content sells the site.

Wrong again. The design sells the site.

It would be pretty hard to sell a site with no design....if thats where you want to go.

Anyway, you are obviously still learning so I wont reply to your nonsense anymore.

[Jon]

it's a team effort actually..

with superbly targeted design, content pertaining to that specific niche or mega, and a lot of updates thats what sells and recurrs..