ccbill pattern? serious question...

[Nickless]

Does anybody else have shitty rebills when sales are up, and sales go down when you have a lot of rebills?

it goes like this every time, if i have a 20 sales today then i have 5 rebills, if i have 20 rebills then it's 5 sales, anyone noted the same?

[NaughtyRob]

A serious question on GFY and nobody replies. This board is seriously going to fucking hell in a handbasket.

[shermo]

I can say that I saw this today. 6 new sales and 23 rebills.

It's been the same pattern you speak of, but I'm sure it's just my traffic, or an increased scrub for that day.

[JSA Matt]

It's not that no one wants to reply, just that no one can explain the insane patterns we see from ccbill

[Nickless]

A serious question on GFY and nobody replies. This board is seriously going to fucking hell in a handbasket.

yep it's sad like that.

[elric]

Does anybody else have shitty rebills when sales are up, and sales go down when you have a lot of rebills?

it goes like this every time, if i have a 20 sales today then i have 5 rebills, if i have 20 rebills then it's 5 sales, anyone noted the same?

I have noticed this since they put the new system in several months ago.

Lots of two-day sales gaps. Often the same two days of every month. Check your stats.

Also, on days when a lot of rebills are due...gaps with no sales.

And of course, no 1099 is a huge red flag also. They paid me almost $40k last year and they don't want to cover their ass with IRS to show where the money went? SHADY.

Right now, I am simply scaling back my CCBill traffic. Also, it seems like a lot of programs are putting in their own front ends and using CCBill only as processor of last resort so their traffic is only going to get shittier/riskier over time - maybe CCBill will start to rethink delivering more value to affiliates? Yeah, right.

[Webby]

NOTHING can be trusted or taken at face value when it involves iBill.

This is not just a biz going thru financial diffculties - there are millions of them.

iBill is special - and needs special attention. This will come.

[Nickless]

NOTHING can be trusted or taken at face value when it involves iBill.

This is not just a biz going thru financial diffculties - there are millions of them.

iBill is special - and needs special attention. This will come.

er... CCbill

[andrej_NDC]

NOTHING can be trusted or taken at face value when it involves iBill.

This is not just a biz going thru financial diffculties - there are millions of them.

iBill is special - and needs special attention. This will come.

drugs?

[StuBradley]

So you think that CCBill is scrubbing? Don't you think us paysite owners would notice that we have more members when we didn't get any sales?

[elric]

So you think that CCBill is scrubbing? Don't you think us paysite owners would notice that we have more members when we didn't get any sales?

There are a variety of possible ways.

It's known that CCBill's software gives program owners the ability to "turn off" the crediting of sales to affiliates. There were several threads on GFY about this last year. So it's possible that paysite owners are responsible.

Or it would also be possible for an affiliate ID to be changed to be different. Like maybe someone's cousin has a CCBill account and the sales credit goes to him instead of the affiliate.

[Webby]

er... CCbill

Na.. if you are thinking I'm playing with supporting CCBill, I'm not :-)

Got nothing against CCBill either - they have performed well over years and provided the service they have been paid for.

Tho, tis only my two cents worth - overall - third party processing is not an easy biz and time it was changed, but meantime some oversight organization needs to keep an eye on em and/or a method of indemity/insurance/whatever needs to be put in place for the protection of clients. These companies, irrespective of how they wish to describe themselves, are similar to banks and other financial operations. They handle funds belonging to others and need controls.

If you are thinking of a CCBill takeover - that would be funny :-)

The iBill scenario, when it is transparent, may motivate others to change this model. It's hard to say whether this will end up good or bad for the industry.

[Nickless]

So you think that CCBill is scrubbing? Don't you think us paysite owners would notice that we have more members when we didn't get any sales?

ccbill does scrub and i'ts all good and needed, sometimes a bit too hard or in odd ways that is my only concern.

[Webby]

Or it would also be possible for an affiliate ID to be changed to be different. Like maybe someone's cousin has a CCBill account and the sales credit goes to him instead of the affiliate.

If possible, that stinks elric. Some call that fraud.

Back to an oversight body :-)

[Nickless]

Na.. if you are thinking I'm playing with supporting CCBill, I'm not :-)

Got nothing against CCBill either - they have performed well over years and provided the service they have been paid for.

Tho, tis only my two cents worth - overall - third party processing is not an easy biz and time it was changed, but meantime some oversight organization needs to keep an eye on em and/or a method of indemity/insurance/whatever needs to be put in place for the protection of clients. These companies, irrespective of how they wish to describe themselves, are similar to banks and other financial operations. They handle funds belonging to others and need controls.

If you are thinking of a CCBill takeover - that would be funny :-)

The iBill scenario, when it is transparent, may motivate others to change this model. It's hard to say whether this will end up good or bad for the industry.

dude the thread was about ccbill, not ibill, still valid points though

[biskoppen]

It's known that CCBill's software gives program owners the ability to "turn off" the crediting of sales to affiliates

I talked to Paul from CCBILL about this turning off option and he told me that site owners can't do this without all affiliates getting emailed about it.. see, I have (had) too a suspicion about that one of my sponsors turned me off from time to time.. like 10 sales one day doing 1:400, next day 0:3000 and so..

[Webby]

er... CCbill

Fuck!! I got too many windows open here!

[Bomber8888]

Scrubbing has definite increased the last two weeks.. and sales have been horrible too!

[elric]

I talked to Paul from CCBILL about this turning off option and he told me that site owners can't do this without all affiliates getting emailed about it.. see, I have (had) too a suspicion about that one of my sponsors turned me off from time to time.. like 10 sales one day doing 1:400, next day 0:3000 and so..

Someone posted screenshots several months ago. They can do this.

[Paul]

Na.. if you are thinking I'm playing with supporting CCBill, I'm not :-)

Got nothing against CCBill either - they have performed well over years and provided the service they have been paid for.

Tho, tis only my two cents worth - overall - third party processing is not an easy biz and time it was changed, but meantime some oversight organization needs to keep an eye on em and/or a method of indemity/insurance/whatever needs to be put in place for the protection of clients. These companies, irrespective of how they wish to describe themselves, are similar to banks and other financial operations. They handle funds belonging to others and need controls.

If you are thinking of a CCBill takeover - that would be funny :-)

The iBill scenario, when it is transparent, may motivate others to change this model. It's hard to say whether this will end up good or bad for the industry.

Webby do you still use third party billing for your sites or did you get your a merchant account ?

[Nickless]

Someone posted screenshots several months ago. They can do this.

anyone with a small affiliate program set up down to try this?

i sign up, then you turn off credit to affiliates for a minute and we see if a mail goes out or not...

the program owner gets quite a bit of credibility doing this small test

[corvette]

Let me jump into this thread to say several things:

If you think that something is working incorrectly, i suggest that you test it with your own card to see what happens. If you notice anything strange, please get with our Client Support department to troubleshoot it.

Also, the 1099 issue is not a "red flag", quite simply, we are not legally required to send 1099s, and this is not by any stretch of the imagination anything that was altered, decided, or changed recently.

[Webby]

Webby do you still use third party billing for your sites or did you get your a merchant account ?

It's spread Coatsy over different corps and use both. But far less third party than in the past, tho still use em and ensure no one processor holds large amounts of rebilling. It's just me... I don't trust much :-)

It would be nice to change the whole scenario and dump all situations where there is direct dealings with card companies!

[Paul]

!!

It's just me... I don't trust much :-)

I'm the same Nothing personal against any company, I'm just not the trusting type. I also don't like the concept of having zero control over your customer base if a CC company loses its processing ability e.g. Global, Ibill

It would be nice to change the whole scenario and dump all situations where there is direct dealings with card companies!

I'm seriously worried that there will not be any third party billing companies left in a year or two. The signs are not looking good imo, there are only a few left !!

[Nickless]

Let me jump into this thread to say several things:

If you think that something is working incorrectly, i suggest that you test it with your own card to see what happens. If you notice anything strange, please get with our Client Support department to troubleshoot it.

i email support every time i get an odd pattern in my stats, the answer is a preset 'everything is fine' i need to come here and check with people if the same pattern is repeated at their stats just to check if it's my marketing failing or a general trend, i guess ccbill support can't/won't answer that question.

btw my card won't work at any ccbill form since it was issued in argentina, never missed a payment or done a chargeback.

[solonline]

As a site owner we check out stats hour after hour. Sure they are highs n lows, and yep ccbill scrub harder than most. Take today for example. We are having a fucking dreadfull day sales wise, 1 of the worst in the past 12 months. Decline emails from CCBILL are at a normal ratio (we get emailed everytime a users card is rejected) is their a problem with CCBILL ? or is the problem with the site we are having low sales to ?
Answer is most probably that we need to get our Ass out, update our front pages and get some action going.

Ccbill dont make any bling if we dont make bling, and as always if in doubt try running a sale yourself. I did and my card was rejected --- but then cheking my bank i saw the card i used was maxed to hilt due to a huge weekend of whores drink and greyhounding racing.
My 10 cents gotta work or im eatin beenz this weekend.

[Webby]

I'm the same Nothing personal against any company, I'm just not the trusting type. I also don't like the concept of having zero control over your customer base if a CC company loses its processing ability e.g. Global, Ibill

Yep!! :-) It's just not common sense to trust any one company with your biz, nevermind the problems when they screw up.

I'm seriously worried that there will not be any third party billing companies left in a year or two. The signs are not looking good imo, there are only a few left !!

Hell Coatsy - that's optimistic! A year is a long time!
On a brighter note... I can see a different model rising out of the ashes and card companies being kept at arms length. A number of processors have already started along these lines - suppose they have the most to lose. Even iBill "assumed" surfers should have a gCard (or whatever they call it) and allocated one to each - not that they even managed to pay out on that. But there is a reason for this in that it does provide an intermediate transaction between card companies and the final beneficiary :-)

[Webby]

Coatsy:

Even iBill "assumed" surfers should have a gCard (or whatever they call it) and allocated one to each - not that they even managed to pay out on that.

PS... In iBill's case what that achieved was secured funds in their account - which, of course, have not been paid to webmasters.

Their reasoning was more than just an ammeded payment model, but more a grab-the-cash exercise:-)

[andrej_NDC]

no matter how hard may ccbill scrub, the most important thing is, when you work your ass off to get thousands of members, you know you will get paid for the rebills, they wont go under...What would you prefer? To make 20% more and after 1 year the processor goes down and you have nothing? Im here for the long term income, I like them.

[DWB]

I see that as well in my stats from time to time. I think it's just a numbers game.

[Dirty Dane]

I talked to Paul from CCBILL about this turning off option and he told me that site owners can't do this without all affiliates getting emailed about it.. see, I have (had) too a suspicion about that one of my sponsors turned me off from time to time.. like 10 sales one day doing 1:400, next day 0:3000 and so..

I never got any email about programs doing that and never heard about it. And why should they send out emails like that? Should I remove the codes one day and place them back another day? Affiliates would drop them at once. Thats messy

[leedsfan]

never had any problem with my sites. CCBill are expensive as a processor, but very reliable, and normally great customer service.

[Paul]

Hell Coatsy - that's optimistic! A year is a long time!

LOL I thought I was being pessimistic with the one or two year assumption

I completely agree with you, 1 ? 2 years is a long long time in this industry. So much changes every single year, I?m going to have to completely change my business model and soon. Currently I just promote sponsors and I don?t have any of my own paysites, I can?t allow myself to end up in a situation where the third party billers are all gone and so are all my rebills. Time to change

On a brighter note... I can see a different model rising out of the ashes and card companies being kept at arms length. A number of processors have already started along these lines - suppose they have the most to lose. Even iBill "assumed" surfers should have a gCard (or whatever they call it) and allocated one to each - not that they even managed to pay out on that. But there is a reason for this in that it does provide an intermediate transaction between card companies and the final beneficiary :-)

Thats some good news I guess There are other payment options which are becoming more popular also. SMS billing is very popular in europe and some paysites are starting to implement that although I don't think SMS billing has the ability to charge a member monthly although I could be wrong about that. Anyway I guess its not all doom and gloom

Coatsy:

PS... In iBill's case what that achieved was secured funds in their account - which, of course, have not been paid to webmasters.

Their reasoning was more than just an ammeded payment model, but more a grab-the-cash exercise:-)

Global did the same thing, was it in 2002 ? Its absolutely scandalous! How do they get away with it ? Its complete and utter fraud!