Programs that Shave, does it really benefit them?

[xenigo]

I'm curious where exactly these shaving programs are coming from lately. What exactly is their philosophy on this concept? Looking to the future of any program's success, I don't think cutting corners such as shaving affiliate's signups is going to buy a failing program any time. Who do they think they're benefitting, themselves? Do they think people will think "1:800, I guess that's good enough!" and not send their traffic to someone else? Do they think not paying the people that pay them is going to get them anywhere?

I fail to see that the benefits outweigh the costs.

[media]

We use Click Truth... Why fuck the game up when you can do it right and let everyone make money with you!

I honestly take offense when people say we shave, If you have proof then show it, otherwise keep your mouth shut until you do..

Shave is thrown around WAY too much in this biz.. There are still alot of honest people in this biz...

[XPays]

Originally posted by media

Shave is thrown around WAY too much in this biz.. There are still alot of honest people in this biz...

paging halcyon - gem of the week

[Mike Okitch]

Originally posted by media
Shave is thrown around WAY too much in this biz.. There are still alot of honest people in this biz...

It's true that it's thrown around too much. Often by inexperienced people that are convinced that because their MILF gallery didn't get enough sales in a teen tgp, they must be shaved.

The sad part about this is that the accusations are made in public where damage is done no matter whether the allegations are true or not.

Back to xenigo's point, it's true that it doesn't make much sense to shave for a sponsor that's in for the long run. But just like in other things in life, the temptation of a quick buck and the illusion that you can get away with it gets too tempting to some.

[detoxed]

I think most people saying shave shave shave are the ones that just cant figure out how to make an affiliate program profitable and think no one else can either.

[pussyluver]

A good marketing campaign, some sheep and shaving can make for some huge profits. Throw in a little black hat SEO and who knows.

To say it hasn't been done would be stupid. To make an acqusation without the ability to back it up is worse.

The point is well made, shaving is part of the mix for some sponsors. If they don't make the dollars expected or others make you more, it's time to move on anyway.

Simple enough to say. When you spend hours and dollars in effort trying to make a program work and it converts worse than 1:3000, it can be frustrating.

The hardone for me is a program for what ever reason does well and then you give it more attention and all goes to hell.

There are some some good programs around that really have their shit together and no matter what I do, I can't make them work for me. What do i do, call 'em shavers?

[irishfury]

The non shavers only post second page hit ratios

[psyko514]

Originally posted by media
Why fuck the game up when you can do it right and let everyone make money with you!

[...]

Shave is thrown around WAY too much in this biz.. There are still alot of honest people in this biz...

Originally posted by detoxed
I think most people saying shave shave shave are the ones that just cant figure out how to make an affiliate program profitable and think no one else can either.

Two very great quotes

[Shap]

I've had this conversation with many people. I've heard alot of people say "I think every program shaves." I think the truth is the exact opposite. Are there slimballs in this business? Yeah there are. I think for the most part most people are not shaving. I may be completely wrong.


Now with regards to shaving and my personal thoughts on it. Personally I feel we'd have aboslutely no benefit from shaving. Why would I want to show my affiliates worse ratios? That makes absolutely no sense. The worse their ratios are the less traffic they'll send. I'm actually the opposite of a shaver, i'm an ADDER. I'm all for adding sales that affiliates didn't really get. I think that is a much better way to do business. Show your affiliates better ratios and more money and in turn they'll show you more traffic and put more effort into promoting you. That's what I want

[xenigo]

Originally posted by shap
I'm actually the opposite of a shaver, i'm an ADDER. I'm all for adding sales that affiliates didn't really get.

Now that's awesome. Everyone sign up with Twisty's... Shap's giving away the farm!!

[webmaster x]

SP2 (for now) has dampened some exit console sales. But that's just one piece of the whole PPS model.

[Babagirls]

Originally posted by shap
I've had this conversation with many people. I've heard alot of people say "I think every program shaves." I think the truth is the exact opposite. Are there slimballs in this business? Yeah there are. I think for the most part most people are not shaving. I may be completely wrong.



Now with regards to shaving and my personal thoughts on it. Personally I feel we'd have aboslutely no benefit from shaving. Why would I want to show my affiliates worse ratios? That makes absolutely no sense. The worse their ratios are the less traffic they'll send. I'm actually the opposite of a shaver, i'm an ADDER. I'm all for adding sales that affiliates didn't really get. I think that is a much better way to do business. Show your affiliates better ratios and more money and in turn they'll show you more traffic and put more effort into promoting you. That's what I want

good points

BUT

what about:
- the newbies or new affiliates that just started promoting, and lets say, the company shaves every sale until about a month down the road, and the new affiliate just thinks "yayy i found the RIGHT way to promote this program and get sales!" then promotes the shit out of it, and get shaved here and there after that.......
now, times that by hundreds, and thats a nice ass profit.


-or, could just not shave at all, till the affiliate is pullin in some major bling bling, and then take a shave or two here and there for extra profit, but not enough to make the affiliate wonder "hmm, are they shaving??" they may just think it was a "a bad week" (and we've all heard that one before, havent we?!!)
also, times that by hundreds, and thats a HUGE fuckin profit for the company.

nuff said.

[psyko514]

Originally posted by Babagirls
good points

BUT

what about:
- the newbies or new affiliates that just started promoting, and lets say, the company shaves every sale until about a month down the road, and the new affiliate just thinks "yayy i found the RIGHT way to promote this program and get sales!" then promote the shit out of it, and get shaved here and there after that.......

-or, could just not shave at all, till the affiliate is pullin in some major bling bling, and then take a shave or two here and there for extra profit, but not enough to make the affiliate wonder "hmm, are they shaving??" they may just think it was a "a bad week" (and we've all heard that one before, havent we?!!)

nuff said.

or what about an employee at a gas station who steals your credit card number from the receipt and racks up a few charges?

or what about a convenience store clerk who adds on a buck or two to a few items and pockets the difference?

or what about a bank manager who carefully takes a few bucks a week from your account?

or what about a restauranteur who recycles the bread you get at the table?

anybody can fuck you anywhere. you can either be paranoid and trust nobody and think everyone is out to get you, or you can have a little faith in people.

programs have more to lose by shaving then they have to gain, unless they're in it for a real quick buck.

[Babagirls]

Originally posted by psyko514
anybody can fuck you anywhere. you can either be paranoid and trust nobody and think everyone is out to get you, or you can have a little faith in people.

unfortuanly, we cant have faith in people
because there is so much shaving going on.
parnoid? you cant be.....too many programs
shave, and they're unknown, so we're all
just hoping for the best, but we know in the
back of our minds that its VERY possible that
ANY company can shave us, and probably
will.

programs have more to lose by shaving then they have to gain, unless they're in it for a real quick buck.

If the companys do it right, as i posted, theres
little specilation to if the company is shaving or
not. so that wouldnt damage the company or
their rep at all.

and sadly enough, there are plenty of
companys that are in it for the "quick buck".

[psyko514]

there is so much shaving going on? where's your proof on this? i've been on the boards for two years, and as far i remember, i've only seen 3-4 programs exposed for shaving.

out of 1000+ programs, that's bad, but it's still less than 1%. far from "so much".

i'd imagine shaving would be a hard thing to hide within a company. and to do so would require the co-operation of all employees in the company who have the ability to discover the shaving. are you really saying that not only are program owners are dishonest, but all program employees are dishonest too? that's a stretch.

and no matter how well "disguised" the shaving is, there's always a chance that it can be exposed. the easiest way is from an ex-employee of the company exposing it.

say a company's been in the industry for 3 years and has built a great reputation, but they've been shaving a fraction of sales. an employee discovers the shaving, quits, reveals the truth, and bam, like that, the company is done with. instead, they could stay honest, and make more and more money for years to come.

if you really think everyone in the industry is fucking you over or is gonna fuck you over, you're probably in the wrong industry.

[Shap]

I understand Babagirls but why would I want to shave them at all? Any quality paysite will tell you that it gets a fair share of it's sales from type in traffic. Whether that be word of mouth, ex-members returning, search engine etc. There is absolutely no need to shave our affiliates. Not even 1% here or there. I think you'd have to be a real greedy lowlife to do that.

However, NON quality paysites probably do not have that same situation. Guys paying out $30 per signup on $2 trial and they have a cookie cutter paysite. They may have to shave to survive. Which is why it's very important to research the companies you promote. If you are promoting a shitty site with a high payout then be prepared to have a shitty experience. We research every company we send alot of traffic to and to be honest we are very comfortable with them. Guys like Scoreland, Nasty Dollars, Bang Bros, Lightspeed, Danni's etc.

[NickPapageorgio]

Originally posted by psyko514
i've been on the boards for two years, and as far i remember, i've only seen 3-4 programs exposed for shaving.

I think her point is this. If me and my buddy are sitting down to eat some watermelon, and he takes a slice, and takes a bite, and falls over dead...

...I am gonna be REEEEAL sketchy about eating a slice of that watermelon.

[beemk]

i think anyone who shaves is in it for the quick buck. if people dont make money with a program they drop them. if they make a lot of money they keep promoting them. they make more money in the long run not shaving.

to anyone saying "why would they shaved... the ratios will be shitty" have you ever thought that they shave clicks too and not just signups?

[Theo]

Funny thing some years ago same thread here would get responses like "no affliate program shaves"

[NickPapageorgio]

Originally posted by Soul_Rebel
Funny thing some years ago same thread here would get responses like "no affliate program shaves"

One bad apple spoils the bunch I guess man...true on many levels in life.