AaronM:

[Pathfinder]

If you have not got back to the Packing Heat thread this is what was being called a machine gun that was supposed to have been purchased at a gun show in Nevada.

Originally posted by Pathfinder
Shann:

I beleive your friend is full of BS or simply does not know what a full automatic weapon is.

Originally posted by Toolz
Where did Shann ever say I bought a full-automatic weapon? She said in her very first post I bought a machine gun, which I did.

In Nevada if you purchase from a private owner, which I did at the gun show last weekend you don't need to fill out any forms or show any id. Private owner transfer

In case you were wondering it's an Ak-47 w/Dragonov stock, bipod, bayonet, 30 rd clip. Yes it's a machine gun and yes if I wanted it to be it can be easily converted to fully automatic.

Originally posted by Pathfinder
Toolz:

An AK-47 is not a machine gun. What you bought is a semi-automatic assault rifle. An AK-47 can be full automatic but would be illegal (and the semi automatic version is also illegal in many states, as well as the thirty shot clip). It still would not be a machine gun. It would be a full automatic assault rifle. The AK-47 is the most common assault rifle in the world.

Any machine gun-or submachine gun is a full automatic weapon.

[Fletch XXX]

I like guns.

[Nina]

Originally posted by Fletch XXX
I like guns.

me too.

[Toolz]

Definition of a Machine Gun:

machine gun
n.
A gun that fires rapidly and repeatedly.


sub·ma·chine gun Pronunciation Key (sbm-shn)
n.
A lightweight automatic gun that shoots pistol ammunition, is usually fired from the shoulder or hip, and often has the capacity for shooting single rounds.

Sounds to me like an Ak-47 fits the definition of machine gun

[DrGuile]

aaaah, I get it!

Being able to purchase an assault rifle without showing any ID is perfectly normal. As long its not a machine gun...


....riiiiight....



that makes perfect sense....

[Pathfinder]

ToolZ:

I spent more than thirty years in the Army.

Read this, learn it, know it. An AK-47 is an assault rifle. You have a semi automatic version of the AK-47. Even if the AK-47 is full automatic, it is a full automatic assault rifle; not a machine gun. Rifle being the key word here.

All machine guns and all sub-machine guns are full automatic.

I have used AK-47's and I have had them used against me. I have used multitypes of machine guns and sub-machine guns.

You have the chance to learn something new today. So do not argue the point with an expert.

[jimmyf]

I believe (not sure) but pathfinder is giving you the military

Definition of a Machine Gun:

Of which I agree with him...100%

Am sure if you go into the military, (which I was in)
we had many many classes on weapons.... And on what kind
of Weapons the Russian's used.... as we were going to be fighting them in Europe....

And the AK-47 was as I learned, was not a machine gun.
but a semi-automatic assault rifle.
A M14 is also, we had a swith on ours, that made it
an fully automatic..... And this is NOT a machine Gun..

On fully Automatic you could through a clip of 20 rounds in about
3 to 5 seconds... can't remember....

I don't give a flying fuck what Webster says.

[AaronM]

Originally posted by DrGuile
aaaah, I get it!

Being able to purchase an assault rifle without showing any ID is perfectly normal. As long its not a machine gun...


....riiiiight....



that makes perfect sense....

Purchasing a gun of any kind from a private party is legal as long as you can legally own the gun in the first place. The fact that it was at a gun show adds no significance to the conversation. It might as well have been a transaction in the parking lot of a police station or the 7-11.

The definition that is quoted above is not accurate. It should read "A gun that fires rapidly and repeatedly with a single trigger pull." This is the definition (more or less) according to law, not Toolz's book of reasoning.

Thanks for pointing this out Pathfinder.

[Pathfinder]

DrGuile:

A few years ago Federal law was passed that makes the sale of most assault rifles illegal, but I will not try to provide the details because I am not knowledgeable enough to speak to the matter.

In California, which is where I live, I believe current law on the sale of assault rifles is even stricter than Federal law, but once again I am not knowledgeable enough to speak to the matter.

I think that thirty shot clips in California are illegal and that even private firearm transactions are supposed to be conducted via a licensed firearms dealer.

Different states have different laws, but I think they all have to be in complicance with Federal law (at a minimum) as regards the sale of guns.

[jimmyf]

Originally posted by DrGuile
aaaah, I get it!

Being able to purchase an assault rifle without showing any ID is perfectly normal. As long its not a machine gun...


....riiiiight....



that makes perfect sense....

Yes it is perfectly normal.... there's a paper in Washington DC that says so....

Now you may not like that fact....but it's a fact...

I don't care if I want to buy an M60 I should be able to...
I have NO use for one but I should be able to buy it if I want to..

Am sure you have not heard this... But an old big shot in the KGB was asked.... Did Russia ever think about or have plans to invade the USA.... His answer was a flat out NO... There was one (1) reason why he said.... To many guns in the USA... That would have been crazy....

[baremuffin]

I hate to invade, but I've been lurking, and I'm curious.
I catch some of those 'History of the Gun' or whatever shows on History Channel every now and then, but I'm not 'up' on my weaponry.

Do most people misidentify assault-rifles (per the definitions show in this thread) as machine guns? I kind of thought that any rifle that was fully automatic was a machine gun... if that's not the case, what defines a machine gun vs a fully automatic assault rifle?

Not that I simply MUST know, but I'm bored and this debate sort of caught my attention...

Ballistically illiterate,
Michelle

[Pathfinder]

baremuffin:

Let us begin with the fact that for any weapon to be considered as a machine gun or sub-machine gun it has to be a full automatic weapon.

People that are not familiar with the different classifications often call full automatic assault rifles machine guns.

In days past machine guns were very heavy and generally mounted on a tripod. The light .30 machine gun that was used during the Second World War and in Korea was normally mounted on a tripod, was belt fed, and had a gun crew (a second gunner and ammo bearers). This same machine gun could be fitted with a stock and bipod.

This day and age light machine guns are lighter than their predecessors (but still weigh much more than an assault rifle) and are usually fixed with a stock and bipod (but not always). They usually fire a larger caliber round and are usually belt fed, but not always. Machine guns still have a gun crew, but they can be fired by a single individual.

So generally a machine gun is heavier, and fires a larger caliber round, than an assault rifle.

No sem-atutomatic weapon (which is what ToolZ purchased) can be called a machine gun.

[jimmyf]

Originally posted by baremuffin
I hate to invade, but I've been lurking, and I'm curious.
I catch some of those 'History of the Gun' or whatever shows on History Channel every now and then, but I'm not 'up' on my weaponry.

Do most people misidentify assault-rifles (per the definitions show in this thread) as machine guns? I kind of thought that any rifle that was fully automatic was a machine gun... if that's not the case, what defines a machine gun vs a fully automatic assault rifle?

Not that I simply MUST know, but I'm bored and this debate sort of caught my attention...

Ballistically illiterate,
Michelle

baremuffin when I was in the Army... I was taught.... a semi-automatic was ( you have to pull the trigger every time) an
auto-matic was ( you pull the trigger and as long as you hold it it keeps firing) ( granted most people think this
would be a machine gun) but it is not a machine gun.... It's a simi-auto-matic or auto-matic.
Don't know for sure but an AK47 has a clip of 30 rounds.

A machine is is well a machine gun... and does not have a clip.... but belts of rounds.... could be 100's or 1,000's of
rounds. and it's one continuos belt... back in the old days... machine guns were water cooled..... now days most are air
cooled....

Gatling Guns on Fighter are machine guns.... but they fire so fast
they have to fire them in short spurts... or they will melt the barrels....

Am sure pathfinder can explane this better to you.... As I was in an Airborne unit and he was also.... I think he, as he spent like 30 years in the miltary and was very serious about his time spent.... I was more of a show me were the beer and pussy is....

I bet I had more fun.....

[Gemini]

The hubby wanted me to toss this in... I guess some of you will recognize it...

Puff The Magic Dragon... Lived by the sea... And when you wish for him to come.... the (substituted ny me word next lol) Bad Guys will try to flee...



Seems they wished Puff in more than once.

[Pathfinder]

Gemini:

In Vietnam Puff was always a very, very welcome addition to any fire fight.

[Pathfinder]

Well ToolZ; did you read it, learn it and now know it?

[Gemini]

Yeah PF, I finally got him to tell me what Puff was.

It's no wonder he hums that song alot. lol Drives me nuts and it sticks in MY head!!

[spanky]

Originally posted by Pathfinder
Well ToolZ; did you read it, learn it and now know it?

I'd call him Mr. ToolZ... I hear he's got a russian assault riffle

cheers

[AaronM]

Originally posted by Pathfinder
Well ToolZ; did you read it, learn it and now know it?

I remember Vietnam very well. I was in charge of maintaining the water levels for the log ride in Denang. Uncle Jimbo, Ned, and I each pulled 2 tours there.

[Toolz]

Pathfinder,

You and everyone else have totally missed the point of this arguement, wtf cares what the weapon is called? Several modifications done to it and I have an automatic "assault rifle" as you like to call it. The whole point was aren't you people the least bit worried at how easy it is to get a setup like this? The gun was purchased legally, at the same gun show I can buy books and parts to convert it to fully-auto, I can buy a 75 rd drum for the damn thing, and if need be I can buy depleted uranium rounds or armor piercing rounds. This was the point of the initial arguement, how easy it is to get a high-powered assault weapon. I'm glad you guys now have two threads argueing if it was a machine gun or an assault rifle, does it matter? Either way something like this in the wrong hands is trouble and judging by the easy of purchase any hands could get one of these.

[bhutocracy]

Originally posted by AaronM


I remember Vietnam very well. I was in charge of maintaining the water levels for the log ride in Denang. Uncle Jimbo, Ned, and I each pulled 2 tours there.

hhehheheh...

[AaronM]

Originally posted by Toolz
Pathfinder,

You and everyone else have totally missed the point of this arguement, wtf cares what the weapon is called? Several modifications done to it and I have an automatic "assault rifle" as you like to call it. The whole point was aren't you people the least bit worried at how easy it is to get a setup like this? The gun was purchased legally, at the same gun show I can buy books and parts to convert it to fully-auto, I can buy a 75 rd drum for the damn thing, and if need be I can buy depleted uranium rounds or armor piercing rounds. This was the point of the initial arguement, how easy it is to get a high-powered assault weapon. I'm glad you guys now have two threads argueing if it was a machine gun or an assault rifle, does it matter? Either way something like this in the wrong hands is trouble and judging by the easy of purchase any hands could get one of these.

The point that YOU are missing is that your friend made claims and statements that were false. To answer your question...Yes, it does bother me. I firmly believe that if the US did a better job enforcing their current gun laws then there would be no need for new ones.

[Kimmykim]

I don't believe this even a thread.

[Pathfinder]

ToolZ:

The whole point was aren't you people the least bit worried at how easy it is to get a setup like this?

My answer is; I am not particularly concerned.

If I remember correctly the last report from the FBI was that less than 1% of crimes involving guns are committed using semi automatic rifles and even less than that are committed using full automatic rifles.

The common weapon involved in the commission of a crime, including murder, in the US is the "Saturday Night Special"; which is a cheap handgun.

[kmanrox]

my eyes have been touched in a place they dont feel comfortable, i am going to tell a teacher or loved one