Content Provider Question....

[RRACY]

Why do you guys think so many companies such as focus adult are getting away from licensing content and shooting exclusive work? I would like to get to the bottom of this by 6pm eastern time.

Seriously, please discuss.

[RRACY]

bump Gimme a break, this place is littered with desperate content guys all hours of the day.

[Buzz]

I've got few thoughts 'bout that:

1. It must be bringing more money
2. Non-exclusive content ruines the model's glance of exclusivity (especially new model's)
more the model was sold non-exclusive - more surfers 've seen her - less webmasters will buy the content
3. Cotnent theft is really disturbing, especially if you sell licensed content w/ documents included

from the other side - non-exclusive content brings more profit (especially if the content provider is well-known), but it takes time

and the last one - maybe they've got too many exclusive customers to produce it non-exclusive?

[freeadultcontent]

Licensing has hidden costs and uses up what they call shelf space in the retail world. It often takes longer to reach your profit line on given sets than if you would have pre-sold it exclusively. That is under the assumption that the set even sells enough times to cover its costs.

Not counting the few (cough charlie, and dvd people) who shoot for other mediums besides webwork. They would be fibbing if they have never shot a set that did not brake even on costs. I am sure this has happened to everyone at least once.

As for the hidden costs. A consumer may not see or know that content shooters have a fairly large problem with content theft. Policing its usage is time consuming at the very least which costs money. Going after such infringers also costs money. Naturally theft also dillutes the value of such material. You also have to maintain and keep track of authorized domains/urls ect. Paperwork and storage which again is another cost.

With exclusive you can pretty much whipe most of that away. The item is bought outright often paid for in advance. It also has one owner who would be responsible to be on the look out for theft. If that owner wants to do hosted galleries, give it away to affiliates, whatever it is their call. You as the shooter will not have to wonder if you sell webmaster A affiliates rights and webmasters C and D did not get them will they be pissed when they see webmaster A's affiliates being given the same content you paid for.

That is my brief answer.

[RRACY]

The posts so far are informative but need more comments from other providers. I personally think most sites are marketing scams with little to nothing in the way of content. There also isn't many internet photogs who shoot good enough still photography.

[Paul Markham]

The simple answer is they make more money shooting exclusive.

To me the bigger question is why?

Very few people will pay more than $30 for a solo girl set and even fewer will pay more than $500 if it's with a video. Now with the set or video going out at $35, the two together going out at $60 how many times do you have to sell it to make $500. Yes some never make any real money. But we can throw it into Bargain Basement at $5 and sell it 20 times.

I think some content providers are suffering because the market has changed. No longer can they count on the newbie webmaster buying their content, the paysites were not buying unless they gave it away and they are left with no alternative but to do a Blow Out.

Whether all of them are moving into exclusive remains to be seen, I suspect some are saying one thing to cover up another.

It is nice not to have all your eggs in one basket, but you don't need two outlets. Assuming you can shoot well enough to get decent paysites and professional webmasters to buy. They buy, it works, they come back.

Shoot content that does not work, they buy, it does not work, they don't come back. Simple as that.

[RRACY]

Originally posted by charly
The simple answer is they make more money shooting exclusive.

I saw your brunette with the huge bush in the July issue of Barely Legal. I would like to pose a question to you about licensing/sales. I think it would be easier for everyone in this thread to understand my question if you posted an image of the brunette model. I am serious.

To me the bigger question is why?

Very few people will pay more than $30 for a solo girl set and even fewer will pay more than $500 if it's with a video. Now with the set or video going out at $35, the two together going out at $60 how many times do you have to sell it to make $500. Yes some never make any real money. But we can throw it into Bargain Basement at $5 and sell it 20 times.

I think some content providers are suffering because the market has changed. No longer can they count on the newbie webmaster buying their content, the paysites were not buying unless they gave it away and they are left with no alternative but to do a Blow Out.

Whether all of them are moving into exclusive remains to be seen, I suspect some are saying one thing to cover up another.

It is nice not to have all your eggs in one basket, but you don't need two outlets. Assuming you can shoot well enough to get decent paysites and professional webmasters to buy. They buy, it works, they come back.

Shoot content that does not work, they buy, it does not work, they don't come back. Simple as that.

[RRACY]

Charly, my other post didn't post. I saw your brunette model in the July issue of Barely Legal. I would like to pose a question to you about licensing/sales but it would be much better if you posted an image of her to help others in the thread to understand this anomaly. Will you post a pic of her first before my question.

[RRACY]

Bump for the hairy pussy girl.

[Paul Markham]

Do you mean this girl?

Not sure what set it is, but is this the girl?

http://www.paulmarkham.com/content.p...419;agreed=yes

[Paul Markham]

Originally posted by RRACY
The posts so far are informative but need more comments from other providers. I personally think most sites are marketing scams with little to nothing in the way of content. There also isn't many internet photogs who shoot good enough still photography.

The problem is simple. For a magazine set we can earn $1,000 to $4,000 for an Internet set few go over the $2,000.

For magazine we only have to shoot and submit it to them, they are not interested in BS, whether I'm a "Pimpin Playa" what ever that is, or anything else. They only care if my content is legal and will sell their magazine. They buy 10 sets they do not ask for a discount. They value content, they make $millions.

For the Internet most of our sets will make less than $1,000 in a lifetime. I spend hours on the boards promoting us, have to go to shows to keep up the promotion and have to compete with clowns who a few years ago were driving taxis for a living.

Some of the content buyers see us as a pain in the arse, a necesary evil, only buy on the price of the image or the discount they get, could not tell a good picture from a bad one. Whether this is the buying motives of the people they are selling too is another matter, I doubt if "members" buy a wank on any of these criteria.

So look at some of my fellow competitors. Guys selling on cost and content that abuses women, content that is thrown out as fast as they can, a lot boast about the number of pictures on their site, not a bouth the quality.

I see a lot of "Hot Girl" threads, a girl who is at best cute. Girls who may be naked and showing their pussies, but also showing they have little intention of using it to fuck someone. Porn in the mind of the buyer is stimulation for a fantasy, a lot of content does not stimulate anything.

But some buyers insist it does not matter, so long as you throw enough traffic at it. Well try throwing traffic at good porn bought on the same motives as your customers and you might se yourself earning more money.

[Mutt]

i'd say its mostly the scamming webmasters who make up about 75% of this business, content means nothing to them, they steal it or profit from the work of those who steal. Then there are the thousands of paysites that are filled with crap - satisfying surfers/members up until recently has had ZERO importance to most web companies because it hasn't made any difference to their bottom lines - that part is changing for the better I think, there are now a ton more quality sites around but the majority are people shooting their own content or paying somebody to shoot it exclusively.

Then there are the content providers themselves - nobody told them that their content was worth 2 cents an image, nobody put a gun to their heads to charge 20 bucks for a set that is worth 100 bucks. then when hosted galleries became a big deal - how many content providers demanded more money for usage that went beyond their licenses? Most were glad just to have a sale so they said 'ok, whatever'.

Same thing will happen to the exclusive content biz, prices will continue to drop.

Most of the high quality shooters will either leave the business or find people to do sites with or do their own sites like Scott Del Amo did, like JokersX did, like Scott Preston did ...........

The amateur shooters are struggling - disappointing partnership deals, more competition, prices dropping - lots of those guys will be leaving as well or become part-time photographers.

Bleak future - though, the few quality people who remain will do ok.

The answer is sites of their own but that is a far bigger challenge for a shooter than the content business, not many will be able to make that work - takes resources, knowledge and time - there's no time in a day for a full time photographer to be playing webmaster. Partnerships sound great but bottom line is anybody who has any money isn't going to want to cut in a photographer or model when he can just write a check and get the work unencumbered by partnership agreements. Only exception would be if the model or photographer was valued so highly that you wanted to be his partner to tie him up exclusively.

[Paul Markham]

Mutt as usual a lot of sense and some not so. LOL

Yes the problem is some in the business look upon it as a joke, they scam rather than work, maybe because they've see empires built by scammers. Those days are over and the scammer is struggling. You want to be the Next Lensamn, Karups, Alsscan, Quiet, look at what they deliver not how they cut corners.

Nobody told anyone to supply pictures at $20 a set, but when you have bad shooters who can't sell on anything other than price and buyers who refuse to see the difference between good and bad porn then you have to sell something. We created Bargain Basement just for this. Can't beat them join them is my motto.

But when you can shoot like this, you don't have to give it away. It's from a boy girl set we shot today, film, digital and video, normal sex, anal and a cum shot. If we don't make more than $10K out of this I will eat Sobe's dick. LOL





This picture was shot by me 22 year old assistant who has been with me less than 6 months. She can already shoot better that 33% of the content providers I see araond.

Right most of the amateurs are struggling, one because it's a saturated market, don't tell me about exclusive Amateur the entire niche is over subscribed. Two because Amateur refers to the shooter not the model, few want to jerk off to bad pictures of girls not interested in fucking anyone and thinks the shooter is a dick head.

Yes maybe the way forward is to open our own sites, we have the staff to shoot while someone builds and send traffic to the sites.

Or maybe just sue people for stealing our pictures. Sue them and their sponsor for doing business with them.

Contact me I might have an answer for you on that one.

[RRACY]

Hi Charly,

Let's take for example your hairy girl or the blond that's all over the net. You do a shoot similar to what the sites that buy exclusive call for. Shoot 10 solo sets and 15 min/solo video. This would be sold non-exclusive to site owners for $200 and would include the right to give to affiliates. The goal would be to recruit in a similar fashion as for exclusive. Finding new unsaturated models regularly and spending a chunk of money on shooting. I want to sell 20 licenses within a week of putting a shoot up for sale. Remember, 200 hundred is only a small fraction of what these guys are paying for exclusive rights. If twenty licenses can't be sold, please explain why?

[Phoenix66]

Recently one of my customers said - "my site sell very well through the doorways with the girls you shot couple of years ago. there is no sense to buy new expencive content"...

That is one of the answers. There is too much content already and you can buy it very cheap, if it's old. And most of surfers have not seen it anyway, of have forgotten they had seen it LOL

Seriously, I thought my old content was oversold, because I made several mistakes then and one of them was - I gave it for reselling and reseller pushed it at a very low price to TGP posters. TGPs were oversaturated with it two years ago. But it still sells now. No wonder nobody wants to buy new content for a higher price if it's about ordinary content. The exception is the content with some story in it (reality kind). But this content is supposed to be exclusive by default. It's made for certain thematic site and can be barely used by others.

[SoBeGirl Video]

Hmm, interestng but sorry to burst your bubble guys but I am doing fine re selling content like I do on http://************

Sure I don't make as much money with sobegirl as I did 2 years ago but I still do just fine. And I am doing other things to make up the difference. It is called diversifying...

Anyhow, I have streamlined distribution to the point that I have tapped into a market none of you other guys can touch. It is more than sustaining and I am glad that you guys are not bright enough to understand how to get the money from these peeps. I will leave it my little secret.

But when you have over 600 different video shoots like SoBeGirl does you can get a little creative. I think it is most tough for the content provider that does not have lots and lots of content to sell. I sell exclusives but for the INternet market it is not really worth my time. I would just rather resell the content myself and be patient to make my money back and then some.

Don't worry webmasters. SoBeGirl will always be here to serve you the best produced hardcore amateur video, at decent affordable prices with the largest selection. To me, exclusive content is not even worth the money. You put it on your stie and in no time it is stolen and reproduced. You would be better off buying some 5 year old content set from SoBeGirl that surfers have not seen in a long long time or if they have seen it they wont remember.
It will save you a lot of money.

[Paul Markham]

Originally posted by RRACY
Hi Charly,

Let's take for example your hairy girl or the blond that's all over the net. You do a shoot similar to what the sites that buy exclusive call for. Shoot 10 solo sets and 15 min/solo video. This would be sold non-exclusive to site owners for $200 and would include the right to give to affiliates. The goal would be to recruit in a similar fashion as for exclusive. Finding new unsaturated models regularly and spending a chunk of money on shooting. I want to sell 20 licenses within a week of putting a shoot up for sale. Remember, 200 hundred is only a small fraction of what these guys are paying for exclusive rights. If twenty licenses can't be sold, please explain why?

Not sure I understand you fully but will try to explain.

A good set and video will sell 20 times as a set, videos and then combined for $60 about 10 times, over it's life time, this is about 12 - 18 months, so look at making around $1,500 to $2,000 on a solo girl set. This is not flooding the market by any means.

The returns on B/G and G/G is even higher.

Why yours do not sell I cannot say. But I believe mine sell because we have a good standard of girl, good level of photography, but a very good level of "porn" It's not enough in todays market to just shoot a girl with her legs open or with a boy, she has to look like she's having fun, as if she is doing this for kicks and will fuck anyone who asks.

We have never shot anything that hurts, degrades or abuses women, because we can make a porn consumer think this girl is real, that she will fuck anyone who is around her. This is not one of those girls who turns you down in a bar, this is one of those girls that fucks freely and openly.

That if we have any skills is the only skill we have. I learnt to shoot erotica for magazines back in the days when you could only show a little bit of hair. I had to make the girl look hot as hell to make up for the lack of meat I could show.

If you want to sell like we do you have to produce something others can't. and I'm not saying we are the only one's who can do it, there are others but they tend not to be giving away content for pennies.

Phoenix66
Yes I heard this argument 5 years ago from a US Internet client, back in the beginning. He was recirculating content. He is now out of business. Look at all the success stories and tell me one who does it this way.

As Mutt says the day of the scammer and short cut merchant are over, they are now competing with professional who do not pull these tricks. I would guess the main reason he's not buying is because his business was going down anyway.

Look at it from a business point of view, a non-exclusive set is $35 now if you buy 1 a day and put it up on your site will that convert or keep one more member or not? Yes of course it will, big sites are signing up 100 members a day and putting up 5 new sets a day, $3,000 T/O for an investment of $175.

[KraZ]

Let me post my

@RRACY

You base your conclusions on what people SAY. That leads to a lot of confusion. Try to look at what people do

@Mutt

I think you're right to a certain extent. The licensed content market is a lot like the insurance market (Buffett's books are an eye-opener here). Since it doesn't cost CPs ANYTHING to sell their existing content, when prices start to go down, everybody lowers their prices and a downward sprial ensues.

The result: the CPs with deeper pockets and more discipline (as in "no blowouts") survive. The others can't shoot NEW content and go out of biz. Rinse. Repeat.

Exclusive/custom content shooters suffer from the downward spiral too because clients overstock with content and are less eager to order custom except in certain niches (where licensed content is limited). However, most of them survive and thrive when the market starts recovering. Amen.

[milehighclub]

Originally posted by KraZ
Let me post my

@RRACY

You base your conclusions on what people SAY. That leads to a lot of confusion. Try to look at what people do

@Mutt

I think you're right to a certain extent. The licensed content market is a lot like the insurance market (Buffett's books are an eye-opener here). Since it doesn't cost CPs ANYTHING to sell their existing content, when prices start to go down, everybody lowers their prices and a downward sprial ensues.

The result: the CPs with deeper pockets and more discipline (as in "no blowouts") survive. The others can't shoot NEW content and go out of biz. Rinse. Repeat.

Exclusive/custom content shooters suffer from the downward spiral too because clients overstock with content and are less eager to order custom except in certain niches (where licensed content is limited). However, most of them survive and thrive when the market starts recoveri
ng. Amen.

Ahhh the ole rinse and repeat It's that way in most businesses. It's whats happening/happened in the hosting business.

[Paul Markham]

Originally posted by KraZ
Let me post my



The result: the CPs with deeper pockets and more discipline (as in "no blowouts") survive. The others can't shoot NEW content and go out of biz. Rinse. Repeat.

Despite J$tyle$ telling us thet were not closing down sales, how many of the guys he did "Blow Outs" for are still shooting?

And how many of the people who followed this trend are still here. Sobe, Prostock are still here. But Focus Adult are not shooting.

Who bought "Blow Outs" form people who are no longer selling new? Would be nice to know.

[RRACY]

Charly,

I have never licensed any content only sold exclusive to the few companies who buy custom. I am having some success but i am limited by recruiting new models and not getting approvals of girls that should be approved.

The simple answer to my question should have been something like this: You won't see a profit for 6-18 months. But if these exclusive sites are spending $1500 on a solo shoot then why can't you sell the same type shoot non-exclusive for 200 hundred to 20 sites. In other words, you'd be selling the entire shoot, not by the set. And you would also be recruiting new talent all the time but only shooting models that are very attractive.

[vidvicious]

Originally posted by RRACY
Charly,

I have never licensed any content only sold exclusive to the few companies who buy custom. I am having some success but i am limited by recruiting new models and not getting approvals of girls that should be approved.

The simple answer to my question should have been something like this: You won't see a profit for 6-18 months. But if these exclusive sites are spending $1500 on a solo shoot then why can't you sell the same type shoot non-exclusive for 200 hundred to 20 sites. In other words, you'd be selling the entire shoot, not by the set. And you would also be recruiting new talent all the time but only shooting models that are very attractive.

I'm in the same delema here .. I got models for exclusive only (softcore) .., Don't want to saturate them just yet

[Paul Markham]

Originally posted by RRACY
Charly,

I have never licensed any content only sold exclusive to the few companies who buy custom. I am having some success but i am limited by recruiting new models and not getting approvals of girls that should be approved.

The simple answer to my question should have been something like this: You won't see a profit for 6-18 months. But if these exclusive sites are spending $1500 on a solo shoot then why can't you sell the same type shoot non-exclusive for 200 hundred to 20 sites. In other words, you'd be selling the entire shoot, not by the set. And you would also be recruiting new talent all the time but only shooting models that are very attractive.

I see what you are saying, sell a package of sets from a days shoot for one lump price.

Good idea, might think about it.

We do not suffer from lack of models, more like lack of days to shoot them in.

[RRACY]

Originally posted by charly
I see what you are saying, sell a package of sets from a days shoot for one lump price.

Good idea, might think about it.

We do not suffer from lack of models, more like lack of days to shoot them in.

I remember reading your articles on xbiz a few years back. I agree with alot your views on how to shoot porn as far as the quality of the model and her sincere interest in making quality images. The photog has to play director and photographer at the same time. IMO there are only a few custom shooters that do more than just go through the motions.

[SoBeGirl Video]

Hi Everybody..

This content provider is going to sit at starbucks with my laptop and my dog and work and look at the hotties and sell content to webmasters from all over the world for reasonable prices...

I like it that way, sorry to dissapoint you :-)

I shoot new content all the time. Hot young teens mostly. Biz has changed in the last 2 years but so has SoBeGirl. If I was selling just exclusives and kissing the ass of program owners who want to beat me up on price all the time I would be begging for food.

These guys are so used to getting rock bottom prices from all over the world it is crazy. If I cannot make 1000 plus for a exclusive shoot I will just let them go somewhere else. For me and I have carved out this niche quite well, the resale market is where it is at. It is less work, more money, a larger cuatomer base which makes biz more stable and you get way more happy customers than one or two big guys who always want more complex shit and cheaper. Fuck that....

See you at start bucks. T moblie hot spot technlogy works great..

peace

[KraZ]

SoBe has spoken ...

I bet viewing naked chicks on your laptop at Starbucks and getting the puzzled looks of white collars has the sweet smell of success all over it

[FUCKuPAYme]

[Doctor Dre]

Originally posted by PicsMasters
I've got few thoughts 'bout that:

1. It must be bringing more money
2. Non-exclusive content ruines the model's glance of exclusivity (especially new model's)
more the model was sold non-exclusive - more surfers 've seen her - less webmasters will buy the content
3. Cotnent theft is really disturbing, especially if you sell licensed content w/ documents included

from the other side - non-exclusive content brings more profit (especially if the content provider is well-known), but it takes time

and the last one - maybe they've got too many exclusive customers to produce it non-exclusive?

Non-exclusive content ruines the model's glance of exclusivity (especially new model's)
more the model was sold non-exclusive - more surfers 've seen her - less webmasters will buy the content

-----------

Unless she gets to a certain point where her name sells alone