Not nice: CCBill

[AdultEarners]

This is not nice:

http://ccbillhelp.ccbill.com/content...opts_affil.htm

I have this saved if they happen to remove it....

Appologies if this has already been posted.....

[AaronM]

Originally posted by AdultEarners
This is not nice:

http://ccbillhelp.ccbill.com/content...opts_affil.htm

I have this saved if they happen to remove it....

Appologies if this has already been posted.....

Then don't use that option.

Get over it.

[GeXus]

So what?

[Antxx]

Sponsors doesn't need to shave, CCbill does it for you...

[corvette]

if you are referring to the rebills, i had posted the following in a previous thread:

Originally posted by corvett
this option was originally added to give our clients the flexibility of various payout structures. We are in the process of adding a section in the affiliate reports where you can view the various options selected for each of your specific account under the corresponding CCBill program.

[AaronM]

Originally posted by Antxx
Sponsors doesn't need to shave, CCbill does it for you...

Another fucking retard.


I shaved my head this morning and in order to keep myself warm...I am wearing my new CCBill hat today.

[Antxx]

Originally posted by corvett
if you are referring to the rebills, i had posted the following in a previous thread:

So, in other words, the stop rebilling just rollover to the next payout ??? I don't find this that clear...

[psyko514]

Umm... I'm sure most IPSPs have that feature. I know Globill did.

[GeXus]

Originally posted by Antxx


So, in other words, the stop rebilling just rollover to the next payout ??? I don't find this that clear...

Blah Blah Blah..

[AdultEarners]

Originally posted by corvett
if you are referring to the rebills, i had posted the following in a previous thread:

Hopefully I read that page wrong, but it appears to me that you are giving your billing clients options to cut out paying the affiliates for ongoing rebills.....

In otherwords, shaving, in a more organised fashion.... ?

[psyko514]

Originally posted by AdultEarners

Hopefully I read that page wrong, but it appears to me that you are giving your billing clients options to cut out paying the affiliates for ongoing rebills.....

In otherwords, shaving, in a more organised fashion.... ?

I think it's a perfectly ok option so long as you advise your affiliates.

[Antxx]

Originally posted by AaronM


Another fucking retard.


I shaved my head this morning and in order to keep myself warm...I am wearing my new CCBill hat today.

True that i don't understand that option's meaning. From the look of it, it sounds like stop payment at X...without not much to it. That leave a lot of place for interpretation. For Cie like CCbill...they certainly have the poeples and money to explain their own rules and option.

Tell me what name i should call you, since your so good at calling me names ?

[AaronM]

Originally posted by psyko514


I think it's a perfectly ok option so long as you advise your affiliates.

Exactly. This gives you the OPTION of telling affiliates that you will pay the x ammount over a 3 month period and so forth. It's not CCBill's responsibility if a sponsor uses that featur to fuck people over. CCBill has added this as another option for billing and payouts. I am sure there are sponsors who mistreat it but that's their fault and Karma is a bitch.

[AaronM]

Originally posted by Antxx
Tell me what name i should call you, since your so good at calling me names ?

"Daddy" will be fine.

[Antxx]

Originally posted by psyko514


I think it's a perfectly ok option so long as you advise your affiliates.

Humm...i am not sure about what you mean by advise. If CCbill put the option transparent in our account, i guess we can make an objective decision, but if the responsability of the advising befall to the sponsor...Gollum! Gollum!

[Antxx]

Originally posted by AaronM


"Daddy" will be fine.

Try to make it insulting, like you just did to me. It's rather lame for calling you names, is it ?

[AdultEarners]

Well, to me, it is just a load of shit, and another affiliate program that we wont be adding to AdultEarners...

note: If your replies are directed towards me then email them to [email protected] - I wont be bothering to check this thread anymore from here on in.... Ive heard enough shit on this issue....

[chodadog]

Originally posted by corvett
Originally posted by corvett
this option was originally added to give our clients the flexibility of various payout structures. We are in the process of adding a section in the affiliate reports where you can view the various options selected for each of your specific account under the corresponding CCBill program.

Doesn't it also give your clients the option to simply end payouts prematurely? The obvious advantage of revshare over pps is the potential to earn from a member for the lifetime of the membership. I wonder how many of the affiliate programs that say "50% for life" have implemented this option on their CCBill stats.

I think it's good that you guys have decided to show affiliates what the settings are, though.

Could you explain the various payout structures possible with this option? I'll gladly admit i'm totally clueless. lol. But it does sound interesting.

[AaronM]

Originally posted by Antxx


Try to make it insulting, like you just did to me. It's rather lame for calling you names, is it ?

Trust me...Being the daddy of a fucking retard is insulting.

Get over yourself bitch.

Oh damn...That's 2 names. I feel like such a badass now.

[corvette]

Originally posted by AdultEarners

Hopefully I read that page wrong, but it appears to me that you are giving your billing clients options to cut out paying the affiliates for ongoing rebills.....

In other words, shaving, in a more organized fashion.... ?

AdultEarners, I had touched on this earlier, but to explain, that option is a feature in the affiliate system. Just as clients have the option to pay out certain percentage of the sales/rebills to their partners, as well as having a pay per signup option, there is also the option to stop paying after a certain number of rebills.

Say, for instance, a client that is confident in their programs retention rate and want to offer their partners 100% of the sale for the first 2 rebills?or 75% of the sale for the first 4 rebills?its an available option

Soon you will be able to see the specific options of each of the programs that you belong to in the new affiliate admin.

[Smokey The Bear]

Originally posted by AdultEarners

Hopefully I read that page wrong, but it appears to me that you are giving your billing clients options to cut out paying the affiliates for ongoing rebills.....

In otherwords, shaving, in a more organised fashion.... ?

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[elric]

Originally posted by corvett


AdultEarners, I had touched on this earlier, but to explain, that option is a feature in the affiliate system. Just as clients have the option to pay out certain percentage of the sales/rebills to their partners, as well as having a pay per signup option, there is also the option to stop paying after a certain number of rebills.

Say, for instance, a client that is confident in their programs retention rate and want to offer their partners 100% of the sale for the first 2 rebills?or 75% of the sale for the first 4 rebills?its an available option

Soon you will be able to see the specific options of each of the programs that you belong to in the new affiliate admin.

When can we expect to see that?

[chodadog]

Originally posted by corvett
Say, for instance, a client that is confident in their programs retention rate and want to offer their partners 100% of the sale for the first 2 rebills?or 75% of the sale for the first 4 rebills?its an available option

Ahh, i see what you mean about the flexible payout structure. But in the past, and currently, without those options showing.. what has stopped clients simply ending rebills after say.. 5 months?

[corvette]

Originally posted by elric
When can we expect to see that?

soon

we are working on it, as well as a few other things...dont want to pretend to know the exact date, but it will be there within a reasonable amount of time

[elric]

Originally posted by chodadog


Doesn't it also give your clients the option to simply end payouts prematurely? The obvious advantage of revshare over pps is the potential to earn from a member for the lifetime of the membership. I wonder how many of the affiliate programs that say "50% for life" have implemented this option on their CCBill stats.

Yeah, basically, this makes it even easier for shaving to occur. CCBill is essentially putting shaving capabilitities into the admin.

I had always assumed that sponsors shaved by fucking around with their join pages, but it's disturbing that CCBill is in on it. You can pretty much assume that any CCBill sponsor shaves now, I guess.

[Suckitbitch]

Originally posted by elric
Yeah, basically, this makes it even easier for shaving to occur. CCBill is essentially putting shaving capabilitities into the admin.

I had always assumed that sponsors shaved by fucking around with their join pages, but it's disturbing that CCBill is in on it. You can pretty much assume that any CCBill sponsor shaves now, I guess.

If its any concellation CCBill can easily shave the sponsor too.

[elric]

Originally posted by corvett


soon

we are working on it, as well as a few other things...dont want to pretend to know the exact date, but it will be there within a reasonable amount of time

Are you guys at CCBill concerned at all about the legal implications of institutionalizing shaving in your system?

I mean, if an individual sponsor shaves, they can just close up shop if they get sued, but if CCBill/CaveCreek are involved, I mean that would give someone a "big fish" to pursue. Isn't it like a class-action lawsuit waiting to happen?

[psyko514]

Originally posted by elric
You can pretty much assume that any CCBill sponsor shaves now, I guess.

That's the dumbest thing I've heard in a while.

I ran an affiliate program on Globill and I stopped rebills after 6 months. My affiliates were aware of this. I can gurantee you that any affiliate making use of this feature says so in their Terms and Conditions, otherwise they're setting themselves up for a lot of legal trouble.

Also, this only affects recurring sponsors, and not PPS sponsors.

[Antxx]

Originally posted by corvett


AdultEarners, I had touched on this earlier, but to explain, that option is a feature in the affiliate system. Just as clients have the option to pay out certain percentage of the sales/rebills to their partners, as well as having a pay per signup option, there is also the option to stop paying after a certain number of rebills.

Say, for instance, a client that is confident in their programs retention rate and want to offer their partners 100% of the sale for the first 2 rebills?or 75% of the sale for the first 4 rebills?its an available option

Soon you will be able to see the specific options of each of the programs that you belong to in the new affiliate admin.

But all the sponsors says that their programs pay % of the sales, not % of X numbers of sales. Already most of sponsors that specified their % doesn't include the CCbill % fees into these promoted amount...

Tell me, where do you set an acceptable conduct of that option ?

[psyko514]

Originally posted by elric
I don't have a clue what I'm talking about.

Well, at least you admit it.

[elric]

Originally posted by psyko514


That's the dumbest thing I've heard in a while.

Also, this only affects recurring sponsors, and not PPS sponsors.

There's nothing dumb about it. I don't know of any sponsors that say upfront that rebills will stop after X number of months.

It's a shave, plain and simple.

And this is just one page out of their doc - there could be ways to shave PPS in there also.

[elric]

Originally posted by Antxx


But all the sponsors says that their programs pay % of the sales, not % of X numbers of sales. Already most of sponsors that specified their % doesn't include the CCbill % fees into these promoted amount...

Tell me, where do you set an acceptable conduct of that option ?

Exactly. It gives an easy way to shave.

[Antxx]

Originally posted by psyko514


That's the dumbest thing I've heard in a while.

I ran an affiliate program on Globill and I stopped rebills after 6 months. My affiliates were aware of this. I can gurantee you that any affiliate making use of this feature says so in their Terms and Conditions, otherwise they're setting themselves up for a lot of legal trouble.

Also, this only affects recurring sponsors, and not PPS sponsors.

I think it's acceptable after an X amount of months. But in this case it works by an X amounts of signup or rebill, which is completely another matter, since you can reach those numbers in a very small amount of time depending, of the setup...

[AdultEarners]

Originally posted by corvett
[B]

AdultEarners, I had touched on this earlier, but to explain, that option is a feature in the affiliate system. Just as clients have the option to pay out certain percentage of the sales/rebills to their partners, as well as having a pay per signup option, there is also the option to stop paying after a certain number of rebills

Say, for instance, a client that is confident in their programs retention rate and want to offer their partners 100% of the sale for the first 2 rebills?or 75% of the sale for the first 4 rebills?its an available option

Corvett, Im sorry, I have never used CCBill for a merchant account, I always stuck with Ibill even though they have had a mountain of problems they have never offered the facility to shave webmasters earnings....

You talking out of your ass if you honestly think that the programs will declare the fact that they "END" rebills after a given number of rebills... What fucking planet are you living on ?? All you are doing is providing shit sponsors with a method of shaving genuine webmaster stats....

There is no other way to put this.... You are twats... and ought to be taken to court for loss of earnings for webmasters worldwide....

Soon you will be able to see the specific options of each of the programs that you belong to in the new affiliate admin.

Soon ???? I hope that webmasters will see you for what you are and put you folks out of business... Sorry... but us webmasters work dam fucking hard, and finding out that a "third party" billing company has been providing built in shaving facilities for months just pisses me off.....

[Suckitbitch]

Originally posted by Antxx
I think it's acceptable after an X amount of months. But in this case it works by an X amounts of signup or rebill, which is completely another matter, since you can reach those numbers in a very small amount of time depending, of the setup...

Its called "fraud" when you advertise 50/50 recurring for the life of the customer and then decide to cut the rebills.

Since CCBill is making this and other fraud possible, the obvious question is what will be done by CCBill to make the sure the sponsors are bound to what they have advertised.


But still... even PPS sponsors payouts are so insanely high these days they have to resort to several hundred if not thousands of felonies a year, and thats just to compete!

[elric]

Originally posted by AdultEarners

Soon ???? I hope that webmasters will see you for what you are and put you folks out of business... Sorry... but us webmasters work dam fucking hard, and finding out that a "third party" billing company has been providing built in shaving facilities for months just pisses me off.....

It would probably not be that hard to prove...

Since sponsors have their supposed payouts posted on their websites, all you'd have to do would be to compare the payout terms posted on sponsor websites to actual billing numbers in CCBill's system. So all you'd need would be a subpeona for CCBill's records.

Once you had their records it would be easy to prove systematic cheating. If there is a pattern of cheating in the CCBill system they could be shown to be an accessory...

[AdultEarners]

Originally posted by Suckitbitch But still... even PPS sponsors payouts are so insanely high these days they have to resort to several hundred if not thousands of felonies a year, and thats just to compete! [/B]

I agree..... but we have always trusted 3rd party billing when it came to partnership programs.....

This is a sad day for long term webmasters... and I think the AE member that first brought this to my attention...

[psyko514]

Originally posted by AdultEarners

Soon ???? I hope that webmasters will see you for what you are and put you folks out of business... Sorry... but us webmasters work dam fucking hard, and finding out that a "third party" billing company has been providing built in shaving facilities for months just pisses me off.....

That's an awful lot of libel. You'd think the owner of a program would think twice before posting such libelous remarks.

First of all, can you prove webmasters are being "shaved" by programs who use this option and don't mention it in their Terms and Conditions?

Second, if a sponsor was accused of shaving using this method, CCBill could easily confirm whether or not the sponsor made use of this feature. And if they did and didn't mention it in their Terms, you'd have an easy lawsuit in your hands.

[AdultEarners]

It just gets better and better:

Payout Resetting
Payout resetting works in combination with Bonus Level Tiering. If you do not use Payout Resetting, Affiliates will receive the tier level reward, even if they drop below the current break amount. This option is Disabled by default.

When you set Payout Resetting to Enabled, CCBill will payout your Affiliates using the next lower Tier values whenever they place below the minimum values set by the current Tier. If Affiliates do not meet the break amount for the Tier, the base percent/ dollar amount will be reset. This gives Affiliates incentives to constantly refer sales. Affiliates are evaluated on their past performance at the beginning of each month.

When you set Payout Resetting to Disabled, CCBill will payout your Affiliates using the current Tier values even if they place below the minimum values set by the current Tier.



Check out: http://ccbillhelp.ccbill.com/index.h...opts_affil.htm

for even more distrust proof....

[Kimmykim]

Oh for Gods sake, stop your crying. CCBill is not shaving anyone, not helping anyone to shave anyone, or even worrying whether it should be a goatee or stash.

If a sponsor wants to cheat you do not think for one minute they will not cheat you, no matter where the fuck they are hosted, billed or eating lunch.

Of course by that same token, if resellers want to cheat they will too.

Feel free to decry the truth of that statement, you won't.

[Antxx]

Originally posted by Suckitbitch




Its called "fraud" when you advertise 50/50 recurring for the life of the customer and then decide to cut the rebills.

Since CCBill is making this and other fraud possible, the obvious question is what will be done by CCBill to make the sure the sponsors are bound to what they have advertised.


But still... even PPS sponsors payouts are so insanely high these days they have to resort to several hundred if not thousands of felonies a year, and thats just to compete!

And that's why i asked that question to Corvet: Where do you set an acceptable conduct of that option ? What does CCbill do to insure the honesty on how that option is used ?

If this option is set for payment structure, then swell, but like it is, it can serve another purpose. Does CCbill is so incline to become complice of a behavior that can lead to fraud possibilities ? Does CCbill care about the behavior of sponsors and what impact it could have on their own reputation ?

I do not see an answer, and i am not sure i will see one.

[Suckitbitch]

Originally posted by AdultEarners

I agree..... but we have always trusted 3rd party billing when it came to partnership programs.....

I wouldn't trust anyone in this "business", no matter how hard they tried to suck my dick or how good their relationship is with VISA.

[corvette]

Originally posted by chodadog
Ahh, i see what you mean about the flexible payout structure. But in the past, and currently, without those options showing.. what has stopped clients simply ending rebills after say.. 5 months?

here are my thoughts?

affiliates should have at least a minimal level of trust with regards to the program(s) that they have decided to begin and maintain a business relationship with.

If you don?t trust a program, don?t send any traffic to it

This is a business, look at the results that you get with various programs and draw your conclusions from them. If you have a sponsor that is sending you checks for rebills from sales that were sent 2 years ago, don?t forget that. There are many programs out there that have excellent reputations for taking care of their referrers?it?s a symbiosis; I know some affiliates that are very well off of from promoting certain programs.

In this close-knit industry, reputation is paramount and the businesses that plan to be here for the long term realize that

This was a feature that was seldom used and the decision was made to make ALL of the accounts options transparent to the programs partner?so, soon it will be a mute issue

[psyko514]

Do you even understand this feature? Do you understand what you just posted? Read it over again.

Originally posted by AdultEarners
It just gets better and better:

Payout Resetting
Payout resetting works in combination with Bonus Level Tiering. If you do not use Payout Resetting, Affiliates will receive the tier level reward, even if they drop below the current break amount. This option is Disabled by default.

When you set Payout Resetting to Enabled, CCBill will payout your Affiliates using the next lower Tier values whenever they place below the minimum values set by the current Tier. If Affiliates do not meet the break amount for the Tier, the base percent/ dollar amount will be reset. This gives Affiliates incentives to constantly refer sales. Affiliates are evaluated on their past performance at the beginning of each month.

When you set Payout Resetting to Disabled, CCBill will payout your Affiliates using the current Tier values even if they place below the minimum values set by the current Tier.



Check out: http://ccbillhelp.ccbill.com/index.h...opts_affil.htm

for even more distrust proof....

[Kimmykim]

Originally posted by psyko514
Do you even understand this feature? Do you understand what you just posted? Read it over again.

Nope, not only are they clueless, they fail to understand that their agreement is with their sponsor, not their sponsor's processor.

And as my attorney loves to say... there is a distinction there.

[elric]

Check this excerpt out...

"Redirected Suspended - When consumers click a banner for a suspended Affiliate account, they will be redirected to the CCBill client's website. They will not be warned that the Affiliate site is invalid."

Direct link:
http://ccbillhelp.ccbill.com/content...stat_affil.htm


WOW. Shaving made easy by CCBill.

[jimmyf]

.

[AdultEarners]

Originally posted by Kimmykim
Oh for Gods sake, stop your crying.

KimmyKim... They provide their shave option, then say they are going to make it available to affiliates months afterwards...

If it wasnt a shave option for sponsors then why was it not implemented for webmasters and affiliates at the same time as it was provided for merchant account holders ??

Perhaps you should get back to what you do best hun.......

[Kimmykim]

Originally posted by elric
Check this excerpt out...

"Redirected Suspended - When consumers click a banner for a suspended Affiliate account, they will be redirected to the CCBill client's website. They will not be warned that the Affiliate site is invalid."

Direct link:
http://ccbillhelp.ccbill.com/content...stat_affil.htm


WOW. Shaving made easy by CCBill.

You don't much read in English do you?

[doober]

Originally posted by AdultEarners
This is not nice:

http://ccbillhelp.ccbill.com/content...opts_affil.htm

I have this saved if they happen to remove it....

Appologies if this has already been posted.....

welcome to last week