adtrackplus.com - SHAVE FUNCTION

[Theo]

do you run thecashzone program or not?

WHOIS and reverse tracert says you do

Checking server [whois.crsnic.net]
Checking server [whois.networksolutions.com]
Results:

Registrant:
Zone Internet (THECASHZONE-DOM)
P O Box 88818
Adelaide, SA 11111
AU

Domain Name: THECASHZONE.COM

Administrative Contact, Technical Contact:
., Webmaster (16139142I) [email protected]
Webmaster
P O Box 88818
Adelaide, SA 11111
AU
1-888-777-8888 fax: 1-888-726-9024

Record expires on 29-Jun-2004.
Record created on 29-Jun-1999.
Database last updated on 5-Nov-2003 13:56:51 EST.

Domain servers in listed order:

NS1.HE.NET 216.218.130.2
NS2.HE.NET 216.218.131.2
NS3.HE.NET 216.218.132.2
---------------------------------------------------------------

Checking server [whois.crsnic.net]
Checking server [whois.networksolutions.com]
Results:

Registrant:
Zone Internet (PWRNFFFLJD)
P O Box 88818
Adelaide, SA 11111
AU

Domain Name: ADTRACKPLUS.COM

Administrative Contact, Technical Contact:
., Webmaster (16139142I) [email protected]
Webmaster
P O Box 88818
Adelaide, SA 11111
AU
1-888-777-8888 fax: 1-888-726-9024

Record expires on 30-Apr-2004.
Record created on 30-Apr-2003.
Database last updated on 5-Nov-2003 20:49:49 EST.

Domain servers in listed order:

NS1.HE.NET 216.218.130.2
NS2.HE.NET 216.218.131.2
NS3.HE.NET 216.218.132.2


so you are not just a programmer.

Can you believe this guy has even registered the domain webmasterfraud.com ?

Do you plan to give us a moral speech anytime soon?

[AcidMax]

Originally posted by gin
You as the programmer, know which programs are shaving? or just post the url's of the people who wanted this great feature added on, we would all like to know

So here you are bitching about a software program and you want him to expose all of his customers who may or MAY NOT be shaving. Now that , is the dumbest comment I have seen EVER on a board.

[bhutocracy]

Originally posted by DTK
Wayne

You provide the tool that allows unethical scumbag program operators to commit FRAUD. Don't try and take any moral high ground man, you're just as slimy as them. If you were a real man, you would refuse to provide such a feature.

Thats one of the most retarded things i've read all week here. Congratulations.

[DTK]

Originally posted by AcidMax


I know lets sue McDonalds for dropping a cup of coffee on your lap, or blaming Smith & Wesson for your wife or girlfriend shooting you in the chest. Stupid argument, when are people going to own up for their own mistakes. Either you use the software or you dont, either you use the shave feature or you dont, either you promote a program who shaves your signups or you dont. Its your responsibility, quit blaming others and pointing the finger. I guess you will use CCBILL or Epoch or something for your affiliate program if you start one up because MPA2, AdTrack plus and every other program has a shave feature that may or may not be used built into it.

No Acidmax, your argument is weak. Your mcdonalds and S&w arguments are completely worthless. Unethical affiliate program operators came to wayne and requested a product that would allow them to COMMIT FRAUD. And he provided the product.

[AcidMax]

Originally posted by Soul_Rebel
do you run thecashzone program or not?

What would it matter if he did? I don't know if he does or not, but so what? Does that mean he shaves? Nope, I dont think so. You guys are saying he and programs who use the software are guilty before proven innocent.

[bhutocracy]

equating "being a real man" to releasing a competitive product that fulfills market demands... oh lol.. thats priceless.

[jimmyf]

Originally posted by the Shemp
If a program cant support their payout structure using honest methods, then the payout structure is wrong.

If it comes down to a decision of who is screwing me "the least" - thats not good enough.

Having over rides to change the stats to not credit sales and/or clicks is not acceptable. Lower the payouts, sure, but count all the signups.

Well said....

[DTK]

Originally posted by bhutocracy
equating "being a real man" to releasing a competitive product that fulfills market demands... oh lol.. thats priceless.

If someone came to me and asked me to code a product that would allow them to commit fraud, I would tell them to kindly fuck off. Obviously, I wouldn't make much money in that market, but I guess I'm weird....I like sleeping at night and looking myself in the mirror.

[AcidMax]

Originally posted by DTK


No Acidmax, your argument is weak. Your mcdonalds and S&w arguments are completely worthless. Unethical affiliate program operators came to wayne and requested a product that would allow them to COMMIT FRAUD. And he provided the product.

No sir, he provided a service to his customer. The webmasters came to him asking for a software that did X, Y & Z. He provided it, they dont have to use it.

Why not blame the unethical affiliate program operators instead of someone who wrote the script? I think people are just really eager to blame someone else for their poor conversions (and I dont mean you in particular.)

Now, lets work on this term fraud. So you are saying that programs that do cross sells, upsells, sell signups on their pop-ups are not committing fraud? They are selling signups on your traffic, in a sense shaving right? Should be blame Microsoft for making internet explorer? Or Netscape or whoever it was that created hahahahahahahahahaha that allowed popups? There are so many different ways to do shit and you guys are targetting one person.

(EDIT: The above was just an example btw, not saying if it is or isnt fraud, but I guess some could conside it fraud..was used for sake of argument only!)

This whole thread is weak if you ask me...hehe.

[AcidMax]

Originally posted by DTK

If someone came to me and asked me to code a product that would allow them to commit fraud, I would tell them to kindly fuck off. Obviously, I wouldn't make much money in that market, but I guess I'm weird....I like sleeping at night and looking myself in the mirror.

Obviously you dont find porn unethical. Granted its not fraud, but slinging porn could be unethical in someone elses eyes, yet you can still sleep. Its all relative now isnt it?

[swedguy]

If you wanna compare it to Smith & Wesson, I think you have to do it the right way.

I doubt that you can go in to a gun store and say "I wanna buy a gun, I'm just going to rob the bank".
They will not sell you a gun to commit a crime.

[DTK]

Acidmax - I'm not trying to let the unethical program operators off the hook in any way....I'm just saying that the people who provide them with the tools to fuck people over are no better.

[AcidMax]

Originally posted by swedguy
If you wanna compare it to Smith & Wesson, I think you have to do it the right way.

I doubt that you can go in to a gun store and say "I wanna buy a gun, I'm just going to rob the bank".
They will not sell you a gun to commit a crime.

Do you think webmasters go to these vendors saying "I want to shave some signups and fuck the webmasters out of money!"

I hightly doubt it. The feature is there, it doesnt mean it HAS to be used. The gun COULD be used to rob a bank, but it doesnt have to be.

[Theo]

Sorry Acidmax but honestly i feel if he wasn't your friend, you would have a different opinion.

Shemp's post expressed my beliefs as well.

Shaving=Stealing gave the opportunity to every retard to run his own sponsor program and compete on the same level with programs that have worked really hard in order to achieve it.


I'm done with this.

[bhutocracy]

Originally posted by DTK

If someone came to me and asked me to code a product that would allow them to commit fraud, I would tell them to kindly fuck off. Obviously, I wouldn't make much money in that market, but I guess I'm weird....I like sleeping at night and looking myself in the mirror.

I would feel ok coding that feature in if 90% of the competition offered it - obviously and for better or worse we're talking about a fraudulent marketplace not a charity candy drive. He doesn't know if his customers are going to shave or not.
There is a HUGE difference between that and actually shaving.

[FATPad]

Originally posted by AcidMax


Do you think webmasters go to these vendors saying "I want to shave some signups and fuck the webmasters out of money!"

I hightly doubt it. The feature is there, it doesnt mean it HAS to be used. The gun COULD be used to rob a bank, but it doesnt have to be.

So what do they say?

You can own a gun for a lot of reasons. Protection, hunting, etc.

What do people looking for shavers say? What legitimate reason do they use?

[AcidMax]

Originally posted by DTK
Acidmax - I'm not trying to let the unethical program operators off the hook in any way....I'm just saying that the people who provide them with the tools to fuck people over are no better.

And what im saying is just because there is a feature that people might think is fraud in a software program, it doesnt mean it has to be used. It doesnt make the software any less cost effect, any less qualified to provide accounting and tracking for a normal affiliate program that doesnt use shave. Did you know ad track plus supports partnership programs too? Well shit, hmm...who would shave a partnership program? Hopefully no one, but look his software works for them too. Just because it has the feature doesnt mean he is holding a gun to the programs head to use shaving in their program. This thread was started as a dig on the software program itself, which is the problem I have.

[GTS Mark]

Originally posted by BradShaw


You need a new lawyer.

LOL!

[DTK]

Originally posted by AcidMax


Obviously you dont find porn unethical. Granted its not fraud, but slinging porn could be unethical in someone elses eyes, yet you can still sleep. Its all relative now isnt it?

I find nothing wrong at all with selling porn Acidmax. there always has and always will be a demand for porn, sex, whatever you choose to call it. If it's consensual, then it's all good.

The taboos placed on porn and sexuality in general are just a bunch of bs and have nothing to do with whether one is an ethical person or not.

[AcidMax]

Originally posted by Soul_Rebel
Sorry Acidmax but honestly i feel if he wasn't your friend, you would have a different opinion.

Shemp's post expressed my beliefs as well.

Shaving=Stealing gave the opportunity to every retard to run his own sponsor program and compete on the same level with programs that have worked really hard in order to achieve it.


I'm done with this.

It's not like Wayne and I are best friends. We have talked a few times, I know the guy. I never got the impression he would cheat anyone. Again you guys are dwelling on the shaving feature. OK, so its there, people dont have to use it.

[Why]

guns dont kill people, stupid people with guns kill people.

software doesnt shave people. the idiots running it do.

so if he should make software without the shave function.
should gun manufacturers make guns without the trigger?

[swedguy]

Originally posted by AcidMax


Do you think webmasters go to these vendors saying "I want to shave some signups and fuck the webmasters out of money!"

I hightly doubt it. The feature is there, it doesnt mean it HAS to be used. The gun COULD be used to rob a bank, but it doesnt have to be.

The shave feature only has ONE purpose, to commit fraud.

Or do you know any other ways it can be used?

[FATPad]

Originally posted by Why
guns dont kill people, stupid people with guns kill people.

software doesnt shave people. the idiots running it do.

so if he should make software without the shave function.
should gun manufacturers make guns without the trigger?

That analogy is meaningless.

Guns have legitimate uses.

What's the legitimate use for a shaving feature?

[DTK]

Originally posted by bhutocracy


I would feel ok coding that feature in if 90% of the competition offered it

Again, I'd disagree... I wouldn't take part in such a sector....but like I said, I'm weird

[jimmyf]

Originally posted by DTK

If someone came to me and asked me to code a product that would allow them to commit fraud, I would tell them to kindly fuck off. Obviously, I wouldn't make much money in that market, but I guess I'm weird....I like sleeping at night and looking myself in the mirror.

People did ask me 2 change some process control software so they could cheat, I told'em 2 fuck off.
These were some Big companies. I read about 2 of'em in the paper, I'll let you guess what I read. You better believe when these people get caught they will go after some programmers. Sure they can try telling'em I just gave the customer what they wanted..... don't think that will fly...

So if you got it in your sofware, you better think long and hard big boy..... What going 2 do when they come for you.

[AcidMax]

Originally posted by FATPad
So what do they say?

You can own a gun for a lot of reasons. Protection, hunting, etc.

What do people looking for shavers say? What legitimate reason do they use?

Dude if the feature wasnt in the software and they requested it, I could see your point. But if the feature just exists already in the program, do you think a webmaster would go "I want to shave", hell no. They would most likely just say "I need an affiliate software."

You could vary well buy Ad Track Plus and use all the features without the shave feature right? Yes you can. Its just a single feature of these types of applications, not the entire app.

[FATPad]

Originally posted by AcidMax


Dude if the feature wasnt in the software and they requested it, I could see your point. But if the feature just exists already in the program, do you think a webmaster would go "I want to shave", hell no. They would most likely just say "I need an affiliate software."

You could vary well buy Ad Track Plus and use all the features without the shave feature right? Yes you can. Its just a single feature of these types of applications, not the entire app.

Well, according to you and him, the feature is only there because everyone and their mother requested it.

So what did they say?

[AcidMax]

Originally posted by swedguy
The shave feature only has ONE purpose, to commit fraud.

Or do you know any other ways it can be used?

Man what part of my argument are you not getting? SO DONT USE THE SHAVE FEATURE!!!! It doesnt mean the rest of the app isnt top-notch, look how many people use MPA2 after their shaving feature discovery? MPA2 is a nice app, but doesnt mean people have to use the shaving feature.

You guys have blinders on, remove them for a minute and see that I am agreeing with you on certain points (ie., shaving is bad) and saying that it doesnt mean a guys software should be bashed.

It's common sense work with affiliate programs you trust, stay away from ones you dont, but just because they use MPA2, or Ad Track Plus or any other affiliate program that has a shave feature that may or may not be used doesnt mean you shouldn't use that program. Find out from the company , test conversions etc. Most of you guys are smart enough to know when conversions are bad, you move on. It's as simple as that.

[DTK]

Originally posted by jimmyf
You better believe when these people get caught they will go after some programmers. Sure they can try telling'em I just gave the customer what they wanted..... don't think that will fly...

Exactly jimmyf!! Exactly!! Any programmer who provides such functionality and doesn't think he'll catch 'accessory to fraud' heat is living under a rock.

[DTK]

Acidmad - Quit calling it the 'shave' feature dammit! It's the FRAUD/THEFT feature.....It's not a defendable position man!

[AcidMax]

Originally posted by FATPad
Well, according to you and him, the feature is only there because everyone and their mother requested it.

So what did they say?

I dont work for him, how would I know what his customers come to him saying. I am only stating my opinion and I said I doubt that customers would go to a company saying "I want to shave" if an affiliate program already has the features in it.

[bhutocracy]

everyone here uses or has used sponsors they suspect might shave - even just a little - I just think it's a little too conveinient to take it out on the only certified target they have even if he didn't actually do it himself.

[jimmyf]

I don't know about other states but in California they have the
Business and professional code, if you sell software that allows someone 2 cheat your ass is in big trouble. It would be the same as me adjusting a Scale to cheat people, my white wuold be in jail.. Period.. You just CAN NOT do it. sooner or later it will catch up with' em

[DTK]

Originally posted by AcidMax


Man what part of my argument are you not getting? SO DONT USE THE SHAVE FEATURE!!!! It doesnt mean the rest of the app isnt top-notch, look how many people use MPA2 after their shaving feature discovery? MPA2 is a nice app, but doesnt mean people have to use the shaving feature.

You guys have blinders on, remove them for a minute and see that I am agreeing with you on certain points (ie., shaving is bad) and saying that it doesnt mean a guys software should be bashed.

It's common sense work with affiliate programs you trust, stay away from ones you dont, but just because they use MPA2, or Ad Track Plus or any other affiliate program that has a shave feature that may or may not be used doesnt mean you shouldn't use that program. Find out from the company , test conversions etc. Most of you guys are smart enough to know when conversions are bad, you move on. It's as simple as that.

Look, I see the point you are trying to make but it just doesn't hold water.....the programmers that provide such functionality are enabling people to commit fraud

[bhutocracy]

maybe he could offer a lower fee for those that don't want the shave feature or something.

[AcidMax]

Originally posted by DTK
Acidmad - Quit calling it the 'shave' feature dammit! It's the FRAUD/THEFT feature.....It's not a defendable position man!

OK, that argument just put the kabash on everything, you are right, i am wrong, you are smart, I am dumb, you are good looking, I am ugly.

[jimmyf]

Originally posted by AcidMax


Man what part of my argument are you not getting? SO DONT USE THE SHAVE FEATURE!!!! It doesnt mean the rest of the app isnt top-notch, look how many people use MPA2 after their shaving feature discovery? MPA2 is a nice app, but doesnt mean people have to use the shaving feature.

You guys have blinders on, remove them for a minute and see that I am agreeing with you on certain points (ie., shaving is bad) and saying that it doesnt mean a guys software should be bashed.

It's common sense work with affiliate programs you trust, stay away from ones you dont, but just because they use MPA2, or Ad Track Plus or any other affiliate program that has a shave feature that may or may not be used doesnt mean you shouldn't use that program. Find out from the company , test conversions etc. Most of you guys are smart enough to know when conversions are bad, you move on. It's as simple as that.

NOPE that feature SHOULD not be in the software... PERIOD..

[JDog]

Originally posted by FATPad
Everyone already knows every sponsor has the ability to shave. MPA was revealed over a year ago as having a built in shaver.

Keep signing up for those $35/signup and FIFTY DOLLAR FRIDAY programs, though. It'll just reinforce the program owners' belief that people like being shaved if the promised numbers are big enough.

NSCash uses MPA and there is the shaving option, but know for a fact that www.nscash.com isn't using the shaving option!

jDoG

[swedguy]

Originally posted by AcidMax


OK, that argument just put the kabash on everything, you are right, i am wrong, you are smart, I am dumb, you are good looking, I am ugly.

I'm happy you finally realized it

[bhutocracy]

Originally posted by AcidMax


Man what part of my argument are you not getting? SO DONT USE THE SHAVE FEATURE!!!! It doesnt mean the rest of the app isnt top-notch, look how many people use MPA2 after their shaving feature discovery? MPA2 is a nice app, but doesnt mean people have to use the shaving feature.

You guys have blinders on, remove them for a minute and see that I am agreeing with you on certain points (ie., shaving is bad) and saying that it doesnt mean a guys software should be bashed.

It's common sense work with affiliate programs you trust, stay away from ones you dont, but just because they use MPA2, or Ad Track Plus or any other affiliate program that has a shave feature that may or may not be used doesnt mean you shouldn't use that program. Find out from the company , test conversions etc. Most of you guys are smart enough to know when conversions are bad, you move on. It's as simple as that.

to be fair the big feature of MPA2 is that it cascades - the affiliate program etc is just icing. IMHO it's kinda unfair to lump webmasters who want to cascade and provide higher sign ups for themselves and affiliates with shavers.

[rockbear]

I saw the MPA 2 program last month and there is a huge shave option right on the homepage hahaha

MPA2 sponsor sucks

[silver]

So wich programs actully use this software ?

[AcidMax]

Originally posted by bhutocracy
maybe he could offer a lower fee for those that don't want the shave feature or something.

Might be an option, but see what people fail to realize is this.

If someone has it on the brain to cheat you, they will do it no matter what. It might be through a shave feature, it might be through another method of scamming sales. If they are going to cheat you they will. Just because a software app has a specific feature, if it wasnt there they would find another way. Ganging up on someone just because they have a software program because they are your latest target (not yours people just bitching about shaving) is just human nature I guess.

I wished no one got shaved, hell I submit galleries too, I dont want to get shaved, but we know its there, and its up to me to do or not do business with someone. If I feel someone is cheating me I move on, tell my friends if I can prove it and hope the word gets around that these people get fucked.

Maybe someone should start the Adult Better Business Bureau for shaving sponsors so we can all be protected.

[jimmyf]

Originally posted by JDog


NSCash uses MPA and there is the shaving option, but know for a fact that www.nscash.com isn't using the shaving option!

jDoG

Well that feature shoud not be in MPA's software.. These companies better wake up. Some State Att. General's is going 2 go after there ass, if not the Fed.'s.

YOU can not do ***fraud*** some people on this board have a hard time understanding this.

[TheSenator]

Most sponsor stay away from a thread like this....

[Dawgy]

Originally posted by bhutocracy
to be fair the big feature of MPA2 is that it cascades - the affiliate program etc is just icing. IMHO it's kinda unfair to lump webmasters who want to cascade and provide higher sign ups for themselves and affiliates with shavers.

thats kinda silly.... youre saying that since mpa has 1 feature, its ok that they have another, but its bad for adtrack to have that same feature...

youre also implying that the only reason anyone uses adtrack is to shave, and the only reason people use mpa is to cascade...

[DTK]

Originally posted by AcidMax


Might be an option, but see what people fail to realize is this.

If someone has it on the brain to cheat you, they will do it no matter what. It might be through a shave feature, it might be through another method of scamming sales. If they are going to cheat you they will. Just because a software app has a specific feature, if it wasnt there they would find another way.

I don't fail to realize this..I agree 100%.

That does not absolve people who provide tools to fuck people over.

[AcidMax]

Originally posted by jimmyf
Well that feature shoud not be in MPA's software.. These companies better wake up. Some State Att. General's is going 2 go after there ass, if not the Fed.'s.

YOU can not do ***fraud*** some people on this board have a hard time understanding this.

I think you need to understand that the shaving has to happen in order for ***fraud*** to even exist. Just because the option is available does not make it fraud.

[jimmyf]

Originally posted by TheSenator
Most sponsor stay away from a thread like this....

I can understand why. if they are using software like the ones that have been posted, I would suggest they contact the company and ask for the shave **feature** be taken
out.

[Jason]

150 unshaved clicks