Designer versus Programmer

[blackmonsters]

Designers have some advantages over programmers when it comes to getting work.

Programmers are always trying to keep up with new languages and employers are
always looking for the "right" combination of languages.
With so many languages being used, the different combinations seem endless.
Every programming job listing is bound to have at least one language that a programmer
never used.
The typical job listing for a programmer reads like a job for 3-5 people instead of one.

If a designer is good then they will always be good because they keep using the same tools.
A good programmer may seem not so good when having to use a different language for
the first time. If the employer is impatient then it's death.

The designer has the potential/ability to "WOW" the employer with the visual side of his work.
The end product of the programmer is hardly ever visually powerful; it just works.
Powerful scripts can be written that have less lines of code than an html page; so no
chance to "WOW" by lines of code.

When it comes to having a portfolio; "Look at my code in these scripts" is just not that awesome
when compared to highly attractive images and layouts of a designer's portfolio.

A programmer can in fact build a really awesome Flash portfolio; but Flash is dead right?




What do you think?

[Sly]

That's a lot of excuses.

[sarettah]

I think any professional craftsman has to spend time, effort and money on their tools.

Yes, a programmer has the challenge of keeping up with the current "trend" in code. Multiple CMS systems, multiple frameworks, etc.

BUT, a designer has many of the same challenges. Keeping up with what version Adobe decoided to release today and all the various cmses, themes and templates that their clients are using not to mention whatever the flavor of the day is for css and Jquery.

And both Programmers and Designers have to be constantly educating clients on what a Programmer does versus what a Designer does and it does not help the issue that many designers do some programming work and many programmers do some design work.

Me, I tend to handle it by only taking on tasks that I know I can do a good job on. If someone approaches me and tells me what they want and I don't do that particular thing and am not real excited of adding it to my toolkit then I tell them up front that I don't do it and try to point them to someone that can.

The portfolio has always been a difficult one for me. As you indicated, many programming projects there isn't a whole lot to see except the final results. So, I basically do a traditional thing of keeping my resume' up to date and just point folks to my linkedin page.

.

[blackmonsters]

That's a lot of excuses.

I like your excuse for getting fired as a moderator here better though.

[Bladewire]

I like your excuse for getting fired as a moderator here better though.

[blackmonsters]

I think any professional craftsman has to spend time, effort and money on their tools.

Yes, a programmer has the challenge of keeping up with the current "trend" in code. Multiple CMS systems, multiple frameworks, etc.

BUT, a designer has many of the same challenges. Keeping up with what version Adobe decoided to release today and all the various cmses, themes and templates that their clients are using.

And both Programmers and Designers have to be constantly educating clients on what a Programmer does versus what a Designer does and it does not help the issue that many designers do some programming work and many programmers do some design work.

Me, I tend to handle it by only taking on tasks that I know I can do a good job on. If someone approaches me and tells me what they want and I don't do that particular thing and am not real excited of adding it to my toolkit then I tell them up front that I don't do it and try to point them to someone that can.

The portfolio has always been a difficult one for me. As you indicated, many programming projects there isn't a whole lot to see except the final results. So, I basically do a traditional thing of keeping my resume' up to date and just point folks to my linkedin page.

.

I agree with a lot of your points; but as far as using new versions of abobe products that's still not like jumping from PERL to PHP to Python to JAVA to etc...
The learning curve for a new programming language is usually a long one.
An employer will often ask for 2 years experience with the new language and not care that you have 10 -20 years in every other language.

[yuu.design]

Both of them have good and bad thinks around them, i don't think designers have a advantage over programmers, i think both of them live in diff worlds when we talk about work

[blackmonsters]

Both of them have good and bad thinks around them, i don't think designers have a advantage over programmers, i think both of them live in diff worlds when we talk about work

Crappy programmers can steal code better that crappy designers can steal designs though.

[sarettah]

An employer will often ask for 2 years experience with the new language and not care that you have 10 -20 years in every other language.

That's when I tell them:

My Code Works. So BYTE ME


Actually I don't tell employers anything these days. I gave them up a few years back.


.

[blackmonsters]

That's when I tell them:

My Code Works. So BYTE ME

.

Yeah; but you're in big trouble if you get hired by a cannibal.

[Barry-xlovecam]

yep
barry@deathstar-8:~/temp$ awk '{gsub(/^[ \t]+|[ \t]+$/,"")};1' new-registrar-list| awk '{$1=$1};1' |sed -e 's/^/"/g' -e 's/$/",/g' >raw-registrar-list

More WTF than WOW

[Sly]

I like your excuse for getting fired as a moderator here better though.

I know, I know. I got fired from Top Bucks as well, right? If my "failure" makes you feel better, so be it.

I have 2 people a week asking me for programmer recommendations and unfortunately I have to turn them away because I know of no good ones to recommend. I have 2 full-time programmers myself, would love to bring another onboard but it's very difficult finding a good programmer that does not have a bad attitude.

[Bladewire]

I know, I know. I got fired from Top Bucks as well, right? If my "failure" makes you feel better, so be it.

Dude I kept telling you if you'd just put out when the boss wants everything would be fine, but nooooo ...

[sarettah]

I have 2 people a week asking me for programmer recommendations and unfortunately I have to turn them away because I know of no good ones to recommend. I have 2 full-time programmers myself, would love to bring another onboard but it's very difficult finding a good programmer that does not have a bad attitude.

Ahem. (cough cough)

Define bad attitude.

I have a great attitude I think. Most of my clients think I have a great attitude too. Well, except for the ones I've fired ;p

.

[blackmonsters]

I know, I know. I got fired from Top Bucks as well, right? If my "failure" makes you feel better, so be it.

I have 2 people a week asking me for programmer recommendations and unfortunately I have to turn them away because I know of no good ones to recommend. I have 2 full-time programmers myself, would love to bring another onboard but it's very difficult finding a good programmer that does not have a bad attitude.

I think it's more like you can dish shit out but you can't take it.
You decided to leave a smart ass remark in a serious thread looking for opinions.
You got burnt with my comeback so now programmers have too much attitude.

Just like the gif posted above; you took a kick at my head and got slammed in the balls.
Don't start trashing programmers because of that.

[woj]

you are looking at it wrong...

each designer does similar type work, so they all compete with each other... it's also a relatively easy trade to get into (at least to pickup basics), just need to get a $99 copy of student edition of photoshop and spend a day watching some tutorial videos and you are in business... so high competition, low barrier of entry, etc = low $$$

programming is exactly the opposite of that...

[blackmonsters]

you are looking at it wrong...

each designer does similar type work, so they all compete with each other... it's also a relatively easy trade to get into (at least to pickup basics), just need to get a $99 copy of student edition of photoshop and spend a day watching some tutorial videos and you are in business... so high competition, low barrier of entry, etc = low $$$

programming is exactly the opposite of that...

Obviously you haven't seen any of my logo designs.

[Bladewire]

you are looking at it wrong...

each designer does similar type work, so they all compete with each other... it's also a relatively easy trade to get into (at least to pickup basics), just need to get a $99 copy of student edition of photoshop and spend a day watching some tutorial videos and you are in business... so high competition, low barrier of entry, etc = low $$$

programming is exactly the opposite of that...

Excellent viewpoint

[galleryseek]

that's why you go fullstack dev brahs.

[galleryseek]

you are looking at it wrong...

each designer does similar type work, so they all compete with each other... it's also a relatively easy trade to get into (at least to pickup basics), just need to get a $99 copy of student edition of photoshop and spend a day watching some tutorial videos and you are in business... so high competition, low barrier of entry, etc = low $$$

programming is exactly the opposite of that...

I wouldn't say it's that black and white...

With being a "developer", guys can get a copy of WP, or any other CMS out there and throw together a site, customize it with pre-made plugins, and deliver.

The same can be said with designers, as you put it. But to be a truly great designer, it takes years upon years of effort -- whether we're talking about identity design, print, web, graphic, concept artists, etc..

Same with coding.

[blackmonsters]

I wouldn't say it's that black and white...

With being a "developer", guys can get a copy of WP, or any other CMS out there and throw together a site, customize it with pre-made plugins, and deliver.

The same can be said with designers, as you put it. But to be a truly great designer, it takes years upon years of effort -- whether we're talking about identity design, print, web, graphic, concept artists, etc..

Same with coding.

A good designer has to have "a flair" for design.
I know photoshop backwards and forwards; that doesn't even matter.
I haven't developed a flair for logos and other graphics.

[blackmonsters]

that's why you go fullstack dev brahs.

Full stack = part or all of the stack is mediocre.
Jack of all trades ain't an expert in anything.

"Handyman" versus electrician; one can keep your house running but you need the other one
to get the factory up and running.

[Paul Markham]

Everything s down to the quality of the person. No designer here earns what the top designers earn.

No one here could afford to pay what my brothers earn or did earn as programmers. One programmed Reuters computers, the other works for a global firm doing very complicated programming.

You're comparing a batch of people that vary so much the thread is pointless.

[Milan_Quantox]

I think he wasn't comparing programmers and designers to other programmers and designers. But programmers and designers and complexity of their work.

Both, programmers and designers, have to keep pace with the new things coming out. Not sure if it can be even compared, someone has an eye for design, while someones brain works better in solving logical problems. So it all depends of a person

Full stack dev is possible to find, but rather go with devs that are experts in technologies your platform runs on

[Klen]

I know, I know. I got fired from Top Bucks as well, right? If my "failure" makes you feel better, so be it.

I have 2 people a week asking me for programmer recommendations and unfortunately I have to turn them away because I know of no good ones to recommend. I have 2 full-time programmers myself, would love to bring another onboard but it's very difficult finding a good programmer that does not have a bad attitude.

I dont know for others but sly was always a top notch and standup guy in my eyes.
Regarding bad attitude, well i have bad attitude when someone have requests which i find absurd.
For example, i refuse to use REST API as i cant find a simple working example of CRUD running on REST API, and i can make API with 100% same functionality as REST API , with much less code and much less hassle. And same goes with frameworks, after all one of PHP founders said how frameworks are absurd and it's better to do it all from scratch . But that does not mean how i wont use frameworks, i just wont use it just because you heard how it is cool to use framework.

[CurrentlySober]

i like poogrammers